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Before you start a topic saying "Is asexuality connected with..."


Sally

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New members are coming onto AVEN with very little information about asexuality. They may be confused, or scared, or at least concerned. They don't know what it means, and they're worried about what it says about themselves.

PLEASE consider that before you start a topic whose title is "Is Asexuality caused by/connected with ABC...XYZ". There is no scientific evidence as to what causes asexuality, any more than there is scientific evidence as to what causes heterosexuality or homosexuality. WE. DON'T. KNOW. For a new person to be confronted with 65 threads speculating that asexuality is connected with mental illness, brain damage, sexual abuse, or any number of things is really frightening (when it isn't just plain stupid or amusing). Many people don't understand the differences between causation, correlation, and pure unfounded theories.

For those who want higher visibility for asexuality, consider that all these threads don't exactly make us look any more serious about being respected as an orientation.

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New members are coming onto AVEN with very little information about asexuality. They may be confused, or scared, or at least concerned. They don't know what it means, and they're worried about what it says about themselves.

PLEASE consider that before you start a topic whose title is "Is Asexuality caused by/connected with ABC...XYZ". There is no scientific evidence as to what causes asexuality, any more than there is scientific evidence as to what causes heterosexuality or homosexuality. WE. DON'T. KNOW. For a new person to be confronted with 65 threads speculating that asexuality is connected with mental illness, brain damage, sexual abuse, or any number of things is really frightening (when it isn't just plain stupid or amusing). Many people don't understand the differences between causation, correlation, and pure unfounded theories.

For those who want higher visibility for asexuality, consider that all these threads don't exactly make us look any more serious about being respected as an orientation.

Very well said.

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Yeah, I'm gonna agree with this. These sorts of threads aren't really providing much more than idle armchair theories

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THANK YOU! I thought AVEN was going bonkers when the 'new threads bar' was all "Is Asexuality connected with depression?, axiety, etc etc?"

Do we have a sudden influx of newcomers? :huh:

But in any case, agreed fully.

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New members are coming onto AVEN with very little information about asexuality. They may be confused, or scared, or at least concerned. They don't know what it means, and they're worried about what it says about themselves.

PLEASE consider that before you start a topic whose title is "Is Asexuality caused by/connected with ABC...XYZ". There is no scientific evidence as to what causes asexuality, any more than there is scientific evidence as to what causes heterosexuality or homosexuality. WE. DON'T. KNOW. For a new person to be confronted with 65 threads speculating that asexuality is connected with mental illness, brain damage, sexual abuse, or any number of things is really frightening (when it isn't just plain stupid or amusing). Many people don't understand the differences between causation, correlation, and pure unfounded theories.

For those who want higher visibility for asexuality, consider that all these threads don't exactly make us look any more serious about being respected as an orientation.

Well said. I agree...

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Thank you all for replying -- I was beginning to think that I was the only one worrying about the effect on new members.

Cyru, regarding your link, I haven't read anywhere that the cause of homosexuality has been determined.

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Thank you !Finally someone said it! I've been seeing threads like those all over in my short time span here -__-

But I want to bet this thread will be overlooked and it will continue

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I don't mind those kinds of topics, as long as people aren't trying to be presumptuous and act like they know why others are the way they are.

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I realize I made a thread of the nature you described just today and meant no offense nor harm to newcomers. I put it up as for discussion, open to complete disagreement, if one wanted (to be honest, I wasn't sure where exactly to post it). I do not see asexuality as being anything close to a disorder, or tied to anything particular thing. I typically post things I don't personally believe in - but things I'm curious to see people debate about. I suppose one should be more careful to state there is no proof for anything, or that they are on no one side, the next time?

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I realize I made a thread of the nature you described just today and meant no offense nor harm to newcomers. I put it up as for discussion, open to complete disagreement, if one wanted (to be honest, I wasn't sure where exactly to post it). I do not see asexuality as being anything close to a disorder, or tied to anything particular thing. I typically post things I don't personally believe in - but things I'm curious to see people debate about. I suppose one should be more careful to state there is no proof for anything, or that they are on no one side, the next time?

Not speaking for Sally or anyone else here, but what really alarmed me was the seemingly sudden influx of all sorts of threads asking if asexuality was tied to any number of potentially extraneous circumstances. It was like a laundry list of "Am I asexual because of x, y, or z?" (If reading from an outsider perspective.)

I don't think any of the threads claimed to have the answers (Although we have threads like that every now and then) but their presence at the top of 'Asexual Q&A' can look kind of discerning. I feel the point is that it can give a certain impression to newcomers that we're 'other', 'diseased', 'broken', or 'fixable', in some way. (Again this is not the fault of any one individual, I'm sure. It's just there are so many threads.)

And also, practical reasons. Do we really need a thread for each supposed link to asexuality? (Does lettuce make you asexual? :lol:) There could be thousands! (Was it the cartoons I watched? Books I read? Colors I wore? THE GROUNDWATER?)

Disclaimer: the last statement was mostly jest but some part of it was a legitimate attempt to create a conspiracy theory around lettuce. /Disclaimer

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Stormy Wether

Disclaimer: the last statement was mostly jest but some part of it was a legitimate attempt to create a conspiracy theory around lettuce. /Disclaimer

Can't be. Rabbits eat lettuce.

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Disclaimer: the last statement was mostly jest but some part of it was a legitimate attempt to create a conspiracy theory around lettuce. /Disclaimer

Can't be. Rabbits eat lettuce.

SSSHHH IT'S A CONSPIRACY THEORY...it's not based on facts, those pesky things. ;)

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I have actually observed rabbits eating lettuce but I'm not sure they really enjoyed it. They probably just didn't want disappoint their partners. ^_^

But what I am really concerned about is that many of these threads ask other AVENites if they "think" something is connected with asexuality as though it were a popularity contest, or whether if 10 people think yes and 8 people think no, therefore 10 wins. The causation of any orientation or connection with it is not a matter of opinion. If it isn't proven by some scientifically-accepted studies, then it's just opinion. So my dislike of these "Is blahblah" threads is twofold: I worry that they may needlessly frighten new AVENites, and I feel they're part of the increasing disregard for science. I'm definitely not a scientist but I'm old enough to have seen a number of theories/opinions be proven wrong after they harmed people.

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New members are coming onto AVEN with very little information about asexuality. They may be confused, or scared, or at least concerned. They don't know what it means, and they're worried about what it says about themselves.

PLEASE consider that before you start a topic whose title is "Is Asexuality caused by/connected with ABC...XYZ". There is no scientific evidence as to what causes asexuality, any more than there is scientific evidence as to what causes heterosexuality or homosexuality. WE. DON'T. KNOW. For a new person to be confronted with 65 threads speculating that asexuality is connected with mental illness, brain damage, sexual abuse, or any number of things is really frightening (when it isn't just plain stupid or amusing). Many people don't understand the differences between causation, correlation, and pure unfounded theories.

For those who want higher visibility for asexuality, consider that all these threads don't exactly make us look any more serious about being respected as an orientation.

It is unclear what sort of science is available about it, so no wonder the speculation.

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It's clear that there is no settled science. The latest scientific article published about homosexuality is that it "might" be at least partially genetic. That was simply based on the number of known homosexuals having homosexual relatives. There's nothing approaching even that minimal degree of knowledge about the etiology of asexuality (and no one that I know of has even been interested in speculating about heterosexuality, since that's the "norm").

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mylittlehazmat

Heehee, oh Sally. ♥ Wonderful.

I didn't note that anyone had replied to your implied question that the cause of homosexuality has been found ... as far as I know, it has not. There have been quite a few correlations found, but nothing concrete. The most I know is that there was a correlation found with the female siblings of homosexual men being more fertile. *shrugs*

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Heehee, oh Sally. ♥ Wonderful.

I didn't note that anyone had replied to your implied question that the cause of homosexuality has been found ... as far as I know, it has not. There have been quite a few correlations found, but nothing concrete. The most I know is that there was a correlation found with the female siblings of homosexual men being more fertile. *shrugs*

Gah. there's another thread talking about Asperger's and asexuality which has progressed to claiming that the cause of homosexuality has been "revealed." It quotes Wikipedia.

I should stop reading this stuff. Drives me nuts, and I'm not even a scientist.

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mylittlehazmat

Heehee, oh Sally. ♥ Wonderful.

I didn't note that anyone had replied to your implied question that the cause of homosexuality has been found ... as far as I know, it has not. There have been quite a few correlations found, but nothing concrete. The most I know is that there was a correlation found with the female siblings of homosexual men being more fertile. *shrugs*

Gah. there's another thread talking about Asperger's and asexuality which has progressed to claiming that the cause of homosexuality has been "revealed." It quotes Wikipedia.

I should stop reading this stuff. Drives me nuts, and I'm not even a scientist.

*snuffles* I doubt it. When the cause of homosexuality is revealed, the cause of heterosexuality will also be revealed. And asexuality and bisexuality and pansexuality. Because to say that the cause of one sexuality has been revealed but not the others is to say that it is abnormal.

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Heehee, oh Sally. ♥ Wonderful.

I didn't note that anyone had replied to your implied question that the cause of homosexuality has been found ... as far as I know, it has not. There have been quite a few correlations found, but nothing concrete. The most I know is that there was a correlation found with the female siblings of homosexual men being more fertile. *shrugs*

Gah. there's another thread talking about Asperger's and asexuality which has progressed to claiming that the cause of homosexuality has been "revealed." It quotes Wikipedia.

I should stop reading this stuff. Drives me nuts, and I'm not even a scientist.

*snuffles* I doubt it. When the cause of homosexuality is revealed, the cause of heterosexuality will also be revealed. And asexuality and bisexuality and pansexuality. Because to say that the cause of one sexuality has been revealed but not the others is to say that it is abnormal.

Oh man. If only.

In a just world, in a just world...

And I don't know about you, but reading posts that quote wikipedia is sort of like why people slow down to get a good, thorough look at an accident to me.

(I'm the person behind the person slowing down, screaming out my window to speed it up.)

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New members are coming onto AVEN with very little information about asexuality. They may be confused, or scared, or at least concerned. They don't know what it means, and they're worried about what it says about themselves.

PLEASE consider that before you start a topic whose title is "Is Asexuality caused by/connected with ABC...XYZ". There is no scientific evidence as to what causes asexuality, any more than there is scientific evidence as to what causes heterosexuality or homosexuality. WE. DON'T. KNOW. For a new person to be confronted with 65 threads speculating that asexuality is connected with mental illness, brain damage, sexual abuse, or any number of things is really frightening (when it isn't just plain stupid or amusing). Many people don't understand the differences between causation, correlation, and pure unfounded theories.

For those who want higher visibility for asexuality, consider that all these threads don't exactly make us look any more serious about being respected as an orientation.

A distinction must be made between threads that are asking if asexuality causes/is caused by X, Y, or Z, and those threads that ask if there is a correlation between asexuality and something else. There's a WORLD of difference between the two. Correlation does not imply causation. Generally, threads asking about a possible correlation are inquisitive in nature - they aren't trying to make claims, just ask whether there is a relationship (which still begs the question, if there is a correlation, what type of relationship is there, if any?). Even without any evidence at all, questions about correlations can be raised (indeed, if we were required to have evidence before asking about possible correlations, we'd rarely be able to ask anything, and thus we'd never be able to study things if we couldn't first speculate). In other words, don't jump on someone who asks whether there's a connection just because there's no scientific evidence (or any evidence, for that matter). Even in the scientific community, you do not need evidence to ask whether two things are related! Furthermore, if someone is asking whether asexuality causes/is caused by X, that's a question, not a claim, and should be treated as such. If no one is ever permitted to ask questions about things that may be related to, caused by, or cause asexuality, how are we supposed to learn? Questions drive research; evidence does not drive what we can and cannot question. If someone is making a causal claim, that's entirely different; that's when you can speak to having no evidence. Do we really mean to criticize people who are simply asking questions? It seems to me that there's a sentiment that we need to be more scientific, yet we're holding posters/people to standards that not even the scientific community requires.

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Do we really mean to criticize people who are simply asking questions? It seems to me that there's a sentiment that we need to be more scientific, yet we're holding posters/people to standards that not even the scientific community requires.

But scientists, when they ask a question, then proceed to plan a study to investigate that question. We don't; we simply start conversations about the possibility of asexuality being connected with x, y, and z, and xyz could be as difficult to contemplate as sexsual abuse as a child or as weirdly silly as left-handedness. Then everyone pitches in and says "Well, my counsin is asexual, I think, and she's left-handed so that might have something to do with it" or "I was abused by a neighbor and since then I don't have any sex drive" and we're off to the races. We're discussing stuff that really has no content, just trying to tie little bits of string together, and we're being read by new people--often quite young, like 14--who are desperate to know what's going on, or maybe just desperate.

Much better to just tone it down and talk about how we feel, not speculate on what caused it. The world outside us does that enough and it bothers us. Why do it to ourselves? Why do it to our young/desperate newcomers?

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Do we really mean to criticize people who are simply asking questions? It seems to me that there's a sentiment that we need to be more scientific, yet we're holding posters/people to standards that not even the scientific community requires.

But scientists, when they ask a question, then proceed to plan a study to investigate that question.

Not necessarily. So many questions never make it to the public domain simply because they never became studies for one reason or another. Plus, intellectual musings have a place just as what it is - a thought exercise. Instead of saying we shouldn't be asking questions about correlations, we simply need to make sure that we're treating the question properly - ie correlation is not equal to causation, personal experiences aren't necessarily the experiences of the majority, etc. It's about keeping the questions and musings in their proper context, not eradicating them completely. Speculation is often a necessary component of intellectual stimulation. Additionally, speculation encourages independent thinking. It's not speculation that's problematic; it's how we treat/speak of our speculation. Don't knock the speculation, knock how certain individuals are making more out of speculation than is scientifically reasonable.

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Heehee, oh Sally. ♥ Wonderful.

I didn't note that anyone had replied to your implied question that the cause of homosexuality has been found ... as far as I know, it has not. There have been quite a few correlations found, but nothing concrete. The most I know is that there was a correlation found with the female siblings of homosexual men being more fertile. *shrugs*

Gah. there's another thread talking about Asperger's and asexuality which has progressed to claiming that the cause of homosexuality has been "revealed." It quotes Wikipedia.

I should stop reading this stuff. Drives me nuts, and I'm not even a scientist.

*snuffles* I doubt it. When the cause of homosexuality is revealed, the cause of heterosexuality will also be revealed. And asexuality and bisexuality and pansexuality. Because to say that the cause of one sexuality has been revealed but not the others is to say that it is abnormal.

I do remember seeing somewhere that males conceived after a previous pregnancy have some greater likelihood of becoming homosexual, because of some hormonal influence in utero.

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mylittlehazmat

Do we really mean to criticize people who are simply asking questions? It seems to me that there's a sentiment that we need to be more scientific, yet we're holding posters/people to standards that not even the scientific community requires.

But scientists, when they ask a question, then proceed to plan a study to investigate that question.

Not necessarily. So many questions never make it to the public domain simply because they never became studies for one reason or another. Plus, intellectual musings have a place just as what it is - a thought exercise. Instead of saying we shouldn't be asking questions about correlations, we simply need to make sure that we're treating the question properly - ie correlation is not equal to causation, personal experiences aren't necessarily the experiences of the majority, etc. It's about keeping the questions and musings in their proper context, not eradicating them completely. Speculation is often a necessary component of intellectual stimulation. Additionally, speculation encourages independent thinking. It's not speculation that's problematic; it's how we treat/speak of our speculation. Don't knock the speculation, knock how certain individuals are making more out of speculation than is scientifically reasonable.

I believe that was one of Sally's points, way up above, that we need to temper down on the "Is asexuality caused by/related to/ yada yada..." because people weren't making the distinction between speculation and something that has been scientifically studied and tested.

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Do we really mean to criticize people who are simply asking questions? It seems to me that there's a sentiment that we need to be more scientific, yet we're holding posters/people to standards that not even the scientific community requires.

But scientists, when they ask a question, then proceed to plan a study to investigate that question.

Not necessarily. So many questions never make it to the public domain simply because they never became studies for one reason or another. Plus, intellectual musings have a place just as what it is - a thought exercise. Instead of saying we shouldn't be asking questions about correlations, we simply need to make sure that we're treating the question properly - ie correlation is not equal to causation, personal experiences aren't necessarily the experiences of the majority, etc. It's about keeping the questions and musings in their proper context, not eradicating them completely. Speculation is often a necessary component of intellectual stimulation. Additionally, speculation encourages independent thinking. It's not speculation that's problematic; it's how we treat/speak of our speculation. Don't knock the speculation, knock how certain individuals are making more out of speculation than is scientifically reasonable.

I believe that was one of Sally's points, way up above, that we need to temper down on the "Is asexuality caused by/related to/ yada yada..." because people weren't making the distinction between speculation and something that has been scientifically studied and tested.

Being careful that we are making the distinction in our posts is in no way, shape or form halting these questions, which from my reading, was what was being suggested (and what the OP seems to indicate in other posts to threads that ask these questions). It's not our fault that "people" aren't making the distinction - we can't control other peoples' thoughts. We can, however, make sure we're using accurate verbiage in our own posts. The answer is not to halt questioning, and in my reading, that's what was being suggested. If that wasn't the initial intention, maybe things could be clarified a bit? There's this thing called "education" - if people aren't being told there's a distinction, they're unlikely to become aware of it, and isn't that part of the argument here?

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New members are coming onto AVEN with very little information about asexuality. They may be confused, or scared, or at least concerned. They don't know what it means, and they're worried about what it says about themselves.

PLEASE consider that before you start a topic whose title is "Is Asexuality caused by/connected with ABC...XYZ". There is no scientific evidence as to what causes asexuality, any more than there is scientific evidence as to what causes heterosexuality or homosexuality. WE. DON'T. KNOW. For a new person to be confronted with 65 threads speculating that asexuality is connected with mental illness, brain damage, sexual abuse, or any number of things is really frightening (when it isn't just plain stupid or amusing). Many people don't understand the differences between causation, correlation, and pure unfounded theories.

For those who want higher visibility for asexuality, consider that all these threads don't exactly make us look any more serious about being respected as an orientation.

I agree; I eventually stopped looking at the Q&A section because it was full of these sorts of questions (that and the "am I asexual?" question). Of course, I don't look at it anymore so I don't know if that is still the case.

I've found when I first mention asexuality to people they almost always look for a reason for it. Whenever someone says something about being heterosexual, that never happens. I'm sure it's well intentioned, but it reinforces the idea that asexuality is a disease or something that doesn't happen naturally.

That's not to say I am against any kind of scientific study or discussions of asexuality, I just think that most of the time that's not what these threads are.

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