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#1 Lord Happy Toast

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 12:00 AM

At present, the wiki is sort of in a state of disarray. There are a number of pages with quite useful information, but there is also a lot of stuff that's out of date, and there are a lot of fairly pointless pages. There is a page listing all pages on the wiki, and it has led me to several pages that are not linked to by anything. My impression is that the wiki was an idea that started with some energy and then died, it has lots of pages that were created like they would be of a sort that would be regularly created but then that weren't, giving it a massively outdated feel.

Here's what I would like to delete:
1) All recipes
2) Media appearances (I believe that there are more comprehensive listings somewhere)
3) pages about specific events or places (e.g. Washington University of St. Louis and stuff that was held there.)
4) pages about specific AVENites (except for particularly important people whose page has substantive information.)

Here's what I would like to keep:
1) Dive in and everything it links to, except possibly the stuff about ASEX (does it even exist?)
2) Anything any particular AVENite feels is important enough to say that we should keep it.

Here's what I'd like feed-back on:
Are there any pages (other than the one's linked to in Dive In) that you feel we need to keep?
Are there any pages that you think need to be updated a lot?
Are there any new topics that you'd like to see pages made for?

#2 hexaquark

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 05:55 AM

That wiki is like going down a rabbit hole. Initially things make sense but some of the articles… there are no words (look up "Moon" or "The granulated material and original material").

Please YES to getting rid of articles for recipes, individual users, and events/places.

Media appearances should probably be handled in a different way then having individual articles for each one. Maybe instead of having categories that link to articles that link to the media, the categories should be articles. (augh that doesn’t make sense) Here, example:
Not this: http://www.asexualit...a_In_Audio_Form

But this:
Media In Audio Form
Our small yet growing list of audio-only media!

CJSW

• CJSW Calgary is a station based in Calgary, Alberta.
• There was a show on the UrbanSex segment covering asexuality on April 18th.
• Featured cijay and one other.

The Chip Franklin Show
• The Chip Franklin Show is a show on WBAL in Baltimore, MD.
• Broadcast on April 26, 2006.
• Hu and Winter were interviewed for this show.

Five Live
• Five Live is a programme on BBC Radio.
• Broadcast on November 17th/18th, 2006 on on Stephen Nolan's show.
• TheSMMG was interviewed live on this show.

etc.





I have questions:

What is the mission statement of the wiki/does it have one?


This seems like an stupid question so bear with me. The wiki needs direction. I’m asking because I can see how it could be valuable, by describing things along with how they fit into the context of asexuality, but right now many of the articles on the same subjects on Wikipedia are much more useful resources.

Here is an example I chose randomly:
http://www.asexualit...?title=Intersex vs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
The AVENwiki doesn’t give more insight, or describe being intersex with any asexual focus.

Here’s another more distressing example:
http://www.asexualit...le=Kinsey_scale vs. http://en.wikipedia....ki/Kinsey_scale
Wikipedia actually describes asexuality in the Kinsey scale better then the AVENwiki does, (though the wiki does link to Wikipedia) and Wikipedia is better referenced.

Which brings me to my second question:

How important are references on the wiki?


I know that asexuality hasn’t been studied very extensively, but there are papers out there. I think on the Asexual Explorations blog there is a good list?

EDIT- after I wrote this I realised you’re the one who runs that blog ._.

Is there a reason there are no pictures?


Maybe this is just me, being a visual person, but a few of the articles could benefit from pictures (the AVEN triangle page is a good example of this).



To answer your questions:
Just from what I saw, the Aromantic page could use work, though how to add to it is beyond me… but this is a good example of something Wikipedia does not cover.

The flag should have its own page, or at the very least a mention somewhere.


agh this is a huge/irritating post... but if I tried to edit a wiki, it would end in tears.
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#3 Sciatrix

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 11:39 AM

I could have sworn I've seen this thread before....

Anyway, I support pruning the article of individual users, universities, and recipes. Does a more comprehensive report of media appearances exist elsewhere, though? I think such a report might be useful in the future for understanding our history, and if no other report exists I'm for leaving that section of the Wiki. It probably does need serious updating, given the overall state of the Wiki.

Is ASEX still going on? If it is, examples to existing outreach programs need to be updated (for example, to my knowledge there are now three asexual zines and two asexual podcasts, not one of each). Links need to be updated, too. If that project is ongoing, maybe the PT ought to sit down together and work through it? If it is not ongoing, it needs to be either deleted or shifted into a general "ideas on how to run a visibility project" sort of page.

I agree that the aromantic page needs some serious work, but do we actually have a concrete working definition of aromantic going? Or romantic orientation in general? It seems to me that romantic orientation is a very sloppily used term here sometimes, especially in the case of aromanticism, where it can refer to both the general disinterest in having a romantic relationship or the complete absence of sexual attraction. Which is it? There needs to be a AVENwide discussion on what romantic orientation actually means. Does it center around experiencing some sort of romantic attraction, or is it about wanting or not wanting to be in a relationship?

Also, the lexicon in general needs some work. Are terms like heteroasexual still in use within the asexual community? I see gaysexual very rarely these days, and almost never do I see the old terms like heteroasexual, possibly because they're seriously not clear. Should these be pruned or left in as historical content?

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#4 ily

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 01:41 AM

I agree that the aromantic page needs some serious work, but do we actually have a concrete working definition of aromantic going? Or romantic orientation in general? It seems to me that romantic orientation is a very sloppily used term here sometimes, especially in the case of aromanticism, where it can refer to both the general disinterest in having a romantic relationship or the complete absence of sexual attraction. Which is it? There needs to be a AVENwide discussion on what romantic orientation actually means. Does it center around experiencing some sort of romantic attraction, or is it about wanting or not wanting to be in a relationship?


Well, I don't think it's bad that different people have varying definitions of 'aromantic'. Maybe in time, it will standardize, but personally I would be uncomfortable with forcing it. I think if we wrote about the ways in which 'aromantic' is commonly used on AVEN, that would be enough. Also, if anyone knows how the term started, I think that would also be useful information to include.

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#5 Sciatrix

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 02:03 AM

I'd be uncomfortable with forcing it, too, Ily, but I think right now since there isn't a clear and agreed-upon definition people tend to just guess at it, especially since it's such a central concept to asexual identifications. (I know very few people who simply say "I think the concept of romantic orientation is not useful" here. Almost everyone, especially the new people, picks a romantic orientation, at least to start with.) And since the definitions tend to be so different--is it a trait relating to attraction or just an identity centering around the gender(s) you wouldn't mind being in a relationship with?--I think it's worth at least having some discussion on what aromanticism and romantic orientation in general really are. Maybe we might not come to a consensus, but wouldn't a discussion on definitions at least help people think about it? There don't need to be official polls or anything like that.

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#6 hexaquark

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 02:13 AM


I agree that the aromantic page needs some serious work, but do we actually have a concrete working definition of aromantic going? Or romantic orientation in general? It seems to me that romantic orientation is a very sloppily used term here sometimes, especially in the case of aromanticism, where it can refer to both the general disinterest in having a romantic relationship or the complete absence of sexual attraction. Which is it? There needs to be a AVENwide discussion on what romantic orientation actually means. Does it center around experiencing some sort of romantic attraction, or is it about wanting or not wanting to be in a relationship?


Well, I don't think it's bad that different people have varying definitions of 'aromantic'. Maybe in time, it will standardize, but personally I would be uncomfortable with forcing it. I think if we wrote about the ways in which 'aromantic' is commonly used on AVEN, that would be enough. Also, if anyone knows how the term started, I think that would also be useful information to include.


I agree that defining something too narrowly can be stifling, but while labels are just labels and they cannot fully reflect the scope of human differences, they are a stepping stone for education and understanding. For example, even though I’m not looking for a romantic relationship and am not romantically attracted to anyone, I’m not comfortable saying that I’m aromantic because I have been in love (once, complicated story), so I don’t think people would accept my aromanticity as being valid. Demiromantic? Ugh so complicated, I gave up on pinning down my romantic orientation. I digress. At the very least that article should be changed to include something along the lines of “Not all asexuals are aromantic, and some sexuals are aromantic” but less awkwardly worded. As of this post, the all the article says is:

There is no concrete definition for "aromantic". Some people think of it as the lack of romantic attraction, whereas others define it as the lack of desire to be in a romantic relationship.

I pretty sure it is a common misconception that all asexuals don’t want to be in relationships and as a stand alone article, it does nothing to dispel that.


I would like to hear various aromantics say how they define it differently and see if the wiki can improve through this.


Another article that might be useful to create is one that addresses the definition of ‘sex-positive’. This thread is a starting point for that: http://www.asexualit...another-label/. While there is an article on ‘antisexuality’ (or sex-negativity) that does address the fact that asexuality is not antisexuality, I don’t know if this is really enough. If we want to get rid of the misconception that asexuals are just repressed, I think a clear definition of a sex-positive asexual is warranted. Another way of doing this, if having a sex-positive article is too much, would be to have an article on, I don’t know, ‘Attitudes towards sexuality’ that would cover both definitions. Once again, sex-positive will be defined differently by different people… Language is often ambiguous and subjective. However, having someone say “Oh I’m not sex-positive” when really they might mean “I don’t want sex for myself” generates misinformation.

#7 ily

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 03:26 AM

(I know very few people who simply say "I think the concept of romantic orientation is not useful" here.


I do! (Well, not in those words, but I do find the romantic/aromantic binary to be limiting.) You found my bias. 8) Did I sort of hijack the thread? My apologies...

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#8 Sciatrix

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 03:53 AM

I was actually thinking of you and Siggy, as it happens. :P And me, to an extent. (And if anyone's hijacking the thread, I'm surely as guilty as you are...) I just think that since it's so pervasive to discussions of asexuality, and especially AVEN asexuality, that we really ought to have a semicoherent definition of the terminology placed somewhere where newbies can access it.

I support the additional discussion of sex-positive/sex-negative terminology, too. Actually, I just like discussion.

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#9 Sally

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:23 AM

‘Attitudes towards sexuality’ that would cover both definitions. Once again, sex-positive will be defined differently by different people… Language is often ambiguous and subjective. However, having someone say “Oh I’m not sex-positive” when really they might mean “I don’t want sex for myself” generates misinformation.


Attitudes is a good idea. The -positive and -negative phrases just seem cans of worms because they evoke seemingly strong emotions in people, besides being confusing.

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#10 Siggy

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 06:27 PM

I want to express my support for this project. :cake: :cake: :cake:

One of my big complaints about the current AVENwiki is that it contains a lot of old terminology and ideas from 2006 that are by now out of date. It's nice to have a way to preserve old ideas, but it can also be misleading. Like, we don't know where these ideas came from, or if they're still in use outside of the wiki. But I'm not sure what a good solution is. Maybe the articles could explicitly say when an idea is out of date and no longer in use, but clearly that is a judgment call. Or maybe you could link to a word search on AVEN, but that's problematic too (also, I can't figure out how to permalink a word search).

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#11 ------

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:21 PM

I'm up with this too.
I good snip of pages that are completely pointless is very good, an example:
http://www.asexualit...=Pomona_College

That really doesn't need its own page. Just giving an example, but if we all add some bits that we can by ourselves (eg. Post of the Week updates) then this pile won't get bigger. I think updating the big important pages, masturbation, repulsed asexuals, etc, will take a good time and thought train.
Start of a big project.

#12 NothingHere

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 06:21 PM

Is there a way to help with this, or is this just the PT telling us that this is what they're doing? If it's the former, I'd be happy to help go through and get rid of the pointless articles, and maybe help expand some of the ones we're keeping. If not, good luck! :)

#13 Lord Happy Toast

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 06:36 PM

My understanding is that anyone can create articles or edit articles, but only the wikimaster can delete them. So we need input from people to tell us what to delete. In terms of creating new content, we'd love to have more people get involved with this, although, historically, not many people have really gotten involved in doing this (which is the reason that the wiki is in its current state.)

#14 hexaquark

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 07:20 PM

My understanding is that anyone can create articles or edit articles, but only the wikimaster can delete them. So we need input from people to tell us what to delete. In terms of creating new content, we'd love to have more people get involved with this, although, historically, not many people have really gotten involved in doing this (which is the reason that the wiki is in its current state.)


If you do want some input, these are a few I have seen that the wikimaster might delete.


Some of the meetup articles haven’t been updated in years, I think people just use the forums to plan meetups now so maybe these ones are unnecessary:

http://www.asexualit...=Berlin_meetups

http://www.asexualit...dmonton_Meetups

http://www.asexualit...ational_Meetups

http://www.asexualit...delberg_Meetups

http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.php?title=Karaoke_in_Berkeley!_10-10-06

http://www.asexualit...husetts_Meetups

http://www.asexualit...e_Young_1-21-07

http://www.asexualit...schland_Meetups




Here are some articles that are ripe for deletion (spam):

http://www.asexualit...=Some_New_Games

http://www.asexualit...iginal_material



Here are some articles that are inside jokes, that no one seems to use anymore. Since I'm a newbie probably you should get the opinion of someone who matters on these:

http://www.asexualit...le=Anti's_Beard

http://www.asexualit....php?title=Moon

http://www.asexualit...=Pink_aardvarks


I've got more, but my posts are always so long...

#15 NothingHere

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 08:29 PM

If you want suggestions of stuff to delete, I'm sure I can find quite a few. AVEN birthdays, etc. I could make a list I guess. I definitely wanna get more involved, but deleting might be a good place to start.

#16 hexaquark

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 08:56 PM

One of my big complaints about the current AVENwiki is that it contains a lot of old terminology and ideas from 2006 that are by now out of date. It's nice to have a way to preserve old ideas, but it can also be misleading. Like, we don't know where these ideas came from, or if they're still in use outside of the wiki. But I'm not sure what a good solution is. Maybe the articles could explicitly say when an idea is out of date and no longer in use, but clearly that is a judgment call. Or maybe you could link to a word search on AVEN, but that's problematic too (also, I can't figure out how to permalink a word search).


So far as the lexicon is concerned, here are a few thoughts… Please someone give me some feedback!

Is the term ‘AS3’ in use? I did a forum search for it and came up with nothing. Anyone know?

Bi-romantic, homo-romantic, hetero-romantic, pan-romantic: I think these are more commonly used now without the hyphens (ie. biromantic, homoromantic, heteroromantic, panromantic) so the wiki could be changed to reflect this. I would give it a go myself but these are the titles of the main articles as well, and are linked to by other articles so I want to hear someone say if this is a good idea or not before I change anything.



If you want suggestions of stuff to delete, I'm sure I can find quite a few. AVEN birthdays, etc. I could make a list I guess. I definitely wanna get more involved, but deleting might be a good place to start.


:cake:! I agree a big article cull is in order, then focusing on potentially useful articles will be easier, and the wiki will be easier to navigate.

#17 Siggy

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 11:01 PM

I think all inside jokes should be deleted, whether they're old or current, unless they're really notable.

AS3 appears in the AVEN store, but I've never seen it elsewhere. It always confused me because it says "asexuals in support of supportive sexuals", but it means "sexuals who support asexuals". I think it should be removed from the lexicon.

I agree that hyphens should be removed from the romantic orientations.

Other suggestions for the lexicon:
Add repulsed and indifferent.
Remove ineffable and effanineffable.
Add gender terms, including transgender, cisgender, genderqueer, agender, neutrois, FtM, and MtF. I think the transgender article should be expanded too, because that's the umbrella term as I understand it. Also add queer.
As others have suggested, add sex-positive and sex-negative, but let the articles reflect that the definitions are not agreed upon.
Remove the ABCD typology from the lexicon, but leave the articles.

In fact, there should be a category for different models, and that's where ABCD typology should go.

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#18 NothingHere

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 12:26 AM

I'm also finding a lot of duplicate articles:

3 identical articles on bisexuality
3 identical articles on biromanticism
2 identical articles on the Black Ring
2 identical articles on aromanticism
2 identical articles on Amoebas
Several articles on androgyny(didn't look at them all)
2 identical articles on androsexuality
2 identical articles on Anthony Bogaert
3 articles on Asex 101
The Autosexual and Autoerotic articles are identical
2 identical articles on demisexuality
3 articles on Dive In
2 identical articles on FAQs
2 identical articles on the Parents/Family FAQ
2 identical articles on the forums
9 articles about the LGBTetc. groups(didn't read them all)
At least 3 identical articles on agendered people
3 identical articles on Grey-Asexuals
2 identical articles on Gynosexuality
3 identical articles on homosexuality
3 identical articles on heteroromanticism
3 identical articles on homoromanticism
3 identical articles on intersexed people
2 identical articles on masturbation
2 identical articles on panromanticism
2 identical articles on pansexuality
4 identical articles on Ragber's model(redirected from articles on primary and secondary attraction
2 identical articles on transgendered people


DISCLAIMER: The list you just read was the result of intense boredom. Also, all the numbers I put are low estimates; there might be more that I missed. I also disregarded duplicates of the pointless articles like recipes, etc. This may or may not be helpful, but I figure even if you delete this post, it was something to do I guess.


Also, these were all found in the "All Articles" section. I'm not sure if there are supposed to be multiples in a section like that. If there are, sorry for wasting your time I guess.


#19 hexaquark

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 02:10 AM

I think all inside jokes should be deleted, whether they're old or current, unless they're really notable.

AS3 appears in the AVEN store, but I've never seen it elsewhere. It always confused me because it says "asexuals in support of supportive sexuals", but it means "sexuals who support asexuals". I think it should be removed from the lexicon.

I agree that hyphens should be removed from the romantic orientations.

Other suggestions for the lexicon:
Add repulsed and indifferent.
Remove ineffable and effanineffable.
Add gender terms, including transgender, cisgender, genderqueer, agender, neutrois, FtM, and MtF. I think the transgender article should be expanded too, because that's the umbrella term as I understand it. Also add queer.
As others have suggested, add sex-positive and sex-negative, but let the articles reflect that the definitions are not agreed upon.
Remove the ABCD typology from the lexicon, but leave the articles.

In fact, there should be a category for different models, and that's where ABCD typology should go.


Thanks, these are really good ideas. And if no one says otherwise, I will fix the hyphens sometime soon.



Hope this is ok: I just did a major overhaul of the main page (you can view the old one in history for comparison), but I need some content for the boxes I added (I shamelessly copied some from the AVEN main page). Especially for the 'Asexuality in the Media' box, and the 'Did you know box'.



ETA: Oh! NothingHere, from what I understand, the multiple pages are actually redirect pages, to prevent multiple pages from cropping up. So for example, if I search for “FAQ” right now, it will redirect me to “FAQs.”

When you make a new article, it is a good idea to think of different ways someone might search for it, then make redirect pages for those terms. It makes the wiki easier to use. At least this is how I think it works, I'm still learning.

#20 Lord Happy Toast

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 04:18 AM

When you make a new article, it is a good idea to think of different ways someone might search for it, then make redirect pages for those terms. It makes the wiki easier to use. At least this is how I think it works, I'm still learning.

My understanding is that one reason for this is that on many wikis (like wikipedia), it's common for people to do links the easiest possible way, which is just putting double square brackets around something. However, if that particular term is the exact one, then it won't link to the page you want. But if you make a bunch of redirect pages, the problem is solved. For instance, on wikipedia, all of the following link to asexuality:
asexual, asexism, sexless, asexually, assexuality, ⚪, asexualism, nonsexual, asexuailty, aesexual, aesexuality, non-sexual, nonsexuality, and non-sexuality

In looking this up on wikipedia, one of these came as a total surprise to me. I'll let you guess which one.

#21 hexaquark

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 05:31 AM

mandrewliter, do you know if there is a reason why file uploads are disabled? It’s not too important, but it would be nice to have a few images.

#22 NothingHere

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 08:17 PM

Oh. Sorry about that then. After I made the list, I kinda wondered if maybe that was the point. Thanks for clearing it up, anyway.

#23 hexaquark

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 04:51 AM

Oh. Sorry about that then. After I made the list, I kinda wondered if maybe that was the point. Thanks for clearing it up, anyway.


Don't apologize! The wiki still needs your help if you want :cake:

On that note, anyone any good at writing and want to volunteer some time? My inner writer is a wretched being which is why I said if I edit the wiki it will end in tears. But I am slowly figuring out other aspects of wiki editing… so if anyone wants to add to an article or make a new article, but doesn’t want to be bothered with the coding side of things, please, please let me know.


I made the flag page. Since the wiki doesn’t support image uploads right now, I used a huge work-around and coded a wiki table (thank you for your foresight, flag designer, for creating a simple flag) which took me ages because I don’t know what I’m doing. I’d really appreciate some help on the text if anyone is willing because I don’t know much about the flag election, so the information is from Wikipedia ._.

ETA: I went over the lexicon as per Siggy’s suggestions. I added gender related terms in their own subsection because the list was getting unwieldy. However, I did not provide definitions because it is late and my brain has shut off. If you know a succinct way to define any of these, please say so (Yadas, I’m looking at you).

Any other terms that should go in the subsection for dated terms (working title)? This section was put in because I didn’t want to delete terms that are still in the shop, but there are probably some others that could go in there.

ok I'll shut up now.

#24 Grimoire Weiss

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 08:09 AM

Here are some articles that are ripe for deletion (spam):

http://www.asexualit...=Some_New_Games

http://www.asexualit...iginal_material



Here are some articles that are inside jokes, that no one seems to use anymore. Since I'm a newbie probably you should get the opinion of someone who matters on these:

http://www.asexualit...le=Anti's_Beard

http://www.asexualit....php?title=Moon

http://www.asexualit...=Pink_aardvarks



I have deleted those two articles that were marked as spam. I moved them to a place called "Deleted2" and "Deleted3". Once I find out how to completely remove pages off of the Wiki, I will do so with those Deleted pages.

As for the Beard, Moon, and Aardvarks topics I'm going to leave that up to the JFF people. I doubt many people look at those pages anymore, but we might want to find out from other people first if it would be ok to remove them

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#25 PiF

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 11:04 AM

just a question

when you ask about updating wiki..you split threads from members so you have this thread as it it now..with little or no input from members and just the pt and wiki team talking

wouldn't this be better away from the main boards seeing as you don't want member input?

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#26 Lord Happy Toast

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 05:26 PM

just a question

when you ask about updating wiki..you split threads from members so you have this thread as it it now..with little or no input from members and just the pt and wiki team talking

wouldn't this be better away from the main boards seeing as you don't want member input?

The members of the PT who are working on the wiki update are Matt and myself. Everyone else responding to this thread is providing valuable feedback of precisely the kind that we were wanting.

#27 hexaquark

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 01:19 AM

I know I said I would shut up but something has been bothering me.

When I am logged into the wiki, pages like this or this with reference sections have several references at the end of the article. However, when I am logged out, all I see is the title "References" with nothing following it.

Seems like a bug, anyone else get this?

I found a relevant thing on wikimedia, they suggest it is incompatibility between the version of the wiki and the version of the cite.php... I don't know how difficult it is to upgrade though.

#28 Lord Happy Toast

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 01:40 AM

I know I said I would shut up but something has been bothering me.

When I am logged into the wiki, pages like this or this with reference sections have several references at the end of the article. However, when I am logged out, all I see is the title "References" with nothing following it.

Seems like a bug, anyone else get this?

I found a relevant thing on wikimedia, they suggest it is incompatibility between the version of the wiki and the version of the cite.php... I don't know how difficult it is to upgrade though.

I'd never noticed that before, but now that you mention it, I have the same problem. I guess this is something we'll have to figure out how to fix.

#29 Shockwave

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 04:01 PM

Is the term ‘AS3’ in use? I did a forum search for it and came up with nothing. Anyone know?

As far as I know, the term "AS3" has not been used since 2005 when I created the items in the store. It was used by some as sort of stamp of approval given by asexuals to sexuals who were supportive of asexuality, hence the name "Asexuals in Support of Supportive Sexuals." However, it was never that popular and died a quick death. It really is no longer relevant. I have no objection to its removal from the wiki and the store. For reference: http://www.asexualit...747-stamp-#as3/

BTW, you can't find it with the search function because it's only three characters long, which is too short for the parameters of the software.

#30 PiF

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 04:19 PM

sounds a bit like blade where the vampires had thier slave familiars?

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