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Asexual Flag: And the winner is.....


bristrek

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*ahem*

You know what...after all my bitching...having a flag kinda rocks.

I've been spending WAY too much time on QueerSecrets, where the flag has already made a good few appearances, and every time I see it my heart flutters a little. I think I'm already starting to identify with it and it's nice to have another identifier.

So yes, I am converted :lol: especially after hearing of the possible accessories that can come from it - so getting me a button!

As much as I love the triangle it's not as if I can't identify with both.

Trala~

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Speaking of buttons, when can we start making them? I assume we would be submitting designs to the AVEN store (right?), but I have no idea how that works. Should we start a merchandise thread? Or are we waiting for a verdict on colors first?

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Speaking of buttons, when can we start making them? I assume we would be submitting designs to the AVEN store (right?), but I have no idea how that works. Should we start a merchandise thread? Or are we waiting for a verdict on colors first?

I don't think we're having a set, formal shade of each colour from the sounds of it. Just a general mid-tone grey and a purple that's pretty equally blue and red and also mid-tone(is).

As for badges and stuff.... would love to have one, a decent sized one too! But alas, no real money and I'd probably have to buy 20 to get one.

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carried in bags

I have two flags, a union jack and St George. (dumb flag scum) I don't see myself rushing out to buy the asexual flag, but if I saw it somewhere I wouldn't be able to resist a buy and drape around myself

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lol... demisexual is a form of grey-A... It's just one of the common variations that has a label...

Well, I've certainly seen no shortage of people identifying very strongly with one over the other, so clearly the distinction is an important one to a lot of people and worth noting.

I personally like the idea of having a stripe for sexual allies because it is an open and inclusive statement, not like segregating asexuals any more than they already seem to be (us asexual vs the 99% type thing). We are a small percentage with communication issues and isolation from the rest of society and on top of that, I've heard accusations that asexuals think themselves above sexual people because they don't experience animal sexual urges etc(I'm not saying that's true, but if you consider that image, having the white stripe just seems to say to me that it's not just The Asexual Cult, but We Are Part Of Society and it is Us And People Who Accept Us.) I don't think I'm quite getting across what is in my head at the moment but maybe you get the broad idea.

Yeah, I definitely agree, but like I said, I think instead somehow making it clear that allies and etc are included under the purple community stripe would be by far the best way to deal with this (and other issues, of course). Having a whole separate stripe implies that they're considered separate from the rest of the community in some vital way, and might very well increase resentment in people who think we consider ourselves apart from and better than them somehow.

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I've been struggling with the white stripe symbolism because, while it's all well and good to acknowledge allies, a part of me wants to have something that's just about us. I'm coming to terms with it by thinking about this:

1. It's a representation of the triangle, with which I have no reservations. In fact, it might help sexuals understand us seeing sexuality as a gradient rather than discrete groupings.

2. Asexuals, almost by definition, need sexuals. Without sexuals, we wouldn't know we were asexual, since ours is a lack of attraction and, in many cases, behavior. It's a dichotomy unlike any other in the queer movements. Homosexuals would still know they were attracted to the same sex even without heterosexuals, for example.

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Was someone making a real flag with this pattern? As soon as someone does, post some photos! I want to see it waving proudly in the sky!

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2. Asexuals, almost by definition, need sexuals. Without sexuals, we wouldn't know we were asexual, since ours is a lack of attraction and, in many cases, behavior. It's a dichotomy unlike any other in the queer movements. Homosexuals would still know they were attracted to the same sex even without heterosexuals, for example.

That's kind of stretching it, to be honest. Being ace definitely doesn't prevent someone from doing anything necessary, or even really objectively beneficial, for that matter. Sexuals definitely enjoy all that stuff they do, yeah, and hey, good for them, but it's still something that some form of sexuality is a prerequisite for enjoying in the same way they do, much like how that one show your friend always gushed over bored you to tears no matter how hard you tried to like it. I'm sure they felt a little let down by that, but it was no loss for you, save for the guilt or wrongness you might have felt for not liking something you were told to.

What I'm saying is that being ace has no adverse effects, so without some form of sexuality around asexuality would just be the default state and considered as such, meaning there'd be nothing unusual about it to have to "realize", you know?

I've been struggling with the white stripe symbolism because, while it's all well and good to acknowledge allies, a part of me wants to have something that's just about us.

If it makes you feel any better, plenty of other people share this sentiment, albeit apparently not that many on this particular forum. Given both that and the fact that all the little details of the flag have yet to be set in stone, there's no real reason you have to come to terms with it just yet.

Do some of the other proposals sit better with you, like sexuals instead falling under the scope of the purple community stripe? It would still include them in the flag, yeah, but not in a dominating sort of way, and it'd also be an improvement in the sense that it would make clear that allies aren't considered separate from us when it comes to community.

It's really a great compromise all around, as elegant as I find the prism idea... can't really imagine how the two could be used concurrently without some serious redundancy. Oh well.

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I think people have brought up some really interesting points about the meanings of the colors. I think it's safe to assume this flag is sort of a new born and it will definitely evolve. It's a good thing, as we think more critically about it.

I see both sides of this argument. On the one hand I think that white representing sexuals is a nice reflection of the Kinsey Triangle that has represented asexuality so far. So in that sense we already have a symbol that does not represent only asexuals. In a way I think what someone said about the sexual/asexual dichotomy is true. It's the same way that night does not really exist without day. The black-gray-white on the flag represents us as more than the flip side to sexuals though, it represents the gradient nature of human sexuality. And this is all well and good, but we DO already have the triangle that reinforces that idea.

I also agree that there is some redundancy with the purple and white meanings as they have been described. I really like the idea that white represents a prism of color because I think it acknowledges our support of and relation to the larger queer community. I think it is about our alliance with LGBTXYZ more than our "community" which is not really redundant with the purple.

I'm just not sure. I guess the question is, should the triangle idea really be reflected in a flag meant to represent us? To me it would be like if South Carolina decided to incorporate part of North Carolina's flag in their own because without North there is no South. It just seems unnecessary. But then again the triangle is part of our history so the white-gray-black on the flag acknowledges that history...if you flip the standard vertically.

Either way I like the flag and I'll probably forget the meanings anyway (not even sure what the US flag means).

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Someone mentioned that having a white stripe is redundant with the purple and saying that having a white stripe makes sexual allies be outside of the community (going by colour representation). Well, we have black and grey stripes too- so in equality, by inference, we are all outside of the community. I prefer to think of it as an equation-

Asexual + grey-A + sexual allies = community.

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Asexual + grey-A + sexual allies = community.

Pretty much exactly this! Well, not pretty much - actually exactly this!

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corduroyjackalope

Speaking of buttons, when can we start making them? I assume we would be submitting designs to the AVEN store (right?), but I have no idea how that works. Should we start a merchandise thread? Or are we waiting for a verdict on colors first?

I started a thread called Homemade Merchandising. But maybe it can turn into in general merchandising ideas.

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Do some of the other proposals sit better with you, like sexuals instead falling under the scope of the purple community stripe? It would still include them in the flag, yeah, but not in a dominating sort of way, and it'd also be an improvement in the sense that it would make clear that allies aren't considered separate from us when it comes to community.

I don't mind sexuals being included in the purple community stripe. I've really tried to be open minded about this, but the more I think about it, the more I dislike the white stripe. I'm not anti-sexual in the least, but it just feels like an intrustion on something that's supposed to be about increasing our own visibility. If most of our community supports it, of course, I can live with it. Of the justifications proffered, I'm partial to the mathematical one (a's + greys + sexuals = community).

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corduroyjackalope

Why are we discussing which colors should be included in the flag and what they mean? Black = Asexuals Grey = Grey A's White = Sexuals Purple = AVEN/Community. It was talked about for weeks before we voted for the flag. Now that we have a flag we should move on and talk about hues.

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I know Green... seems some people were late to the whole thing and need to try to get their voices heard. I'd like to think that we could calmly work out people's worries about the colours though, even though the flag process has moved on from that point.

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I'm with Acer. When discussion on this all started I don't think anyone was sure if it'd get anywhere and it took a bit before we started reaching out to asexuals outside of English AVEN. And by the time we did, the colours were set. They mean what they mean now but..... well, if we got a flood of people saying they hated the white = sexuality and nobody defending it then it'd change but I haven't seen that. Mostly just people thinking it's kinda cool.

I have to say, I did forget that some might not know what they meant cause it seemed so obvious to me. And it seemed so obvious when the colour discussion thread was starting up for, of all thing, bracelets. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't let others talk about it, or discuss it with them.

And I love the white stripe and what it means, and that we have it in our flag.

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Someone mentioned that having a white stripe is redundant with the purple and saying that having a white stripe makes sexual allies be outside of the community (going by colour representation). Well, we have black and grey stripes too- so in equality, by inference, we are all outside of the community. I prefer to think of it as an equation-

Asexual + grey-A + sexual allies = community.

That works too, although the way I see it is that the stripes for aces and gray-a/demis are definitional, which would make sense given that it's a flag representing us, whereas the others segue into more abstract meanings. I'd think it woud be naturally assumed that the people a flag represents would also be included under the community stripe, but the same might not be assumed of sexuals if they were relegated to a separate one.

I really like the idea that white represents a prism of color because I think it acknowledges our support of and relation to the larger queer community. I think it is about our alliance with LGBTXYZ more than our "community" which is not really redundant with the purple.

That's a good point. When you put it in terms of simple relation the white prism stripe could also be considered more definitional than anything, so it wouldn't necessarily clash or overlap with the community stripe.

I guess the question is, should the triangle idea really be reflected in a flag meant to represent us? To me it would be like if South Carolina decided to incorporate part of North Carolina's flag in their own because without North there is no South. It just seems unnecessary.

Yeah, this really just sums up my thoughts on that perfectly.

I see both the rainbow flag and the pink triangle used all the time, for example, so there's no reason the same couldn't be done with the ace flag and the kinsey triangle if someone wanted to express asexuality in the greater context of the spectrum.

Why are we discussing which colors should be included in the flag and what they mean? Black = Asexuals Grey = Grey A's White = Sexuals Purple = AVEN/Community. It was talked about for weeks before we voted for the flag. Now that we have a flag we should move on and talk about hues.

I know this might come as a surprise to some people, but asexuals comprise at the very least 1% of the entire human population. This is an internet forum with a few thousand members. Do the math.

Symbols evolve, and nobody has the right to enforce a rigid timetable to silence varied and equally valid opinions. Change isn't even what's necessarily being asked for, just greater specificity to avoid people jumping to the wrong conclusions in the future. There's absolutely nothing to be lost from that and everything to be gained.

Have a little empathy for people who don't think exactly as you do. I can't believe people seriously need to be reminded of this.

And by the way, that posting on fuckyeahaces is staggeringly obnoxious and a really cheap way to aggregate apparent agreement by falsely implying things are already set in stone. Very few people would disagree with something they thought was unchangeably official. Way to keep it classy.

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Pilot, we talked about all of this in about three other threads, starting about two months ago. That's probably why people assume it's assumed by now.

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Well, now they've been reminded that AVEN is just one small segment of the community, and one that not everyone feels they fit into (or are even aware of, at that). The time that's elapsed since talk of a flag even began has also been fleetingly brief in the greater scheme of things, so it'd be nothing short of incredibly hasty and shortsighted to declare that all of the details are done and settled at this point.

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corduroyjackalope

I just think we should move on. If late comers want to know why this flag was picked they can go to the past threads and see all of the discusion and thought that was put into it. For the rest of us, we are ready to go onto the next round and all of this is taking a step backwards. This thread could be losing imput because people might just see everyone talking about the same old stuff. It's all feeling rather redundent.

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Here are some hue changes I made in photoshop:

Screenshot2010-08-11at123759PM.png

I like this one the best (the first one). I felt like the others were too dark/blue. The third one was alright too.

I agree, this is my favorite...even though I am biased towards bluish purples.

Also I AM TOTALLY KNITTING AN ASEXUAL SCARF.

:D :D :D I TOTALLY SHOULD TOO!

I want to try to do shoe laces. Maybe get white ones and use thread to do the flag. It would take a while, but it would be worth it.

That would be awesome!

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Has the official hues been set yet?

We seem to not be doing that lol - I think the best we have is a purple midway between blue and red and sort of mid-way dark/light. And the grey half way between black and white, a decent shade that is visible, clearly distinguished and so on. It'll probably figure itself out over time.

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I just think we should move on. If late comers want to know why this flag was picked they can go to the past threads and see all of the discusion and thought that was put into it. For the rest of us, we are ready to go onto the next round and all of this is taking a step backwards.

It's like I was really posting in another language!

We seem to not be doing that lol - I think the best we have is a purple midway between blue and red and sort of mid-way dark/light. And the grey half way between black and white, a decent shade that is visible, clearly distinguished and so on. It'll probably figure itself out over time.

That's probably for the better, really. If someone thinks a purple image someone else said was bluish is actually more reddish, it's likely not something wrong with their perception of color so much as what's actually being displayed onscreen. Between the color profile/lack thereof of the image, whether or not the browser even acknowledges color profiles, and the calibration of the monitor, it's pretty much an exercise in futility to make sure two people on different computers are actually seeing the exact same thing. Not really conducive to fine-tuning a color, unfortunately. Even professionals have a time with it.

Just plain descriptors like "halfway between black and white" for a shade of gray would probably get the job done fine for anyone trying to make their own stuff, though.

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I just think we should move on. If late comers want to know why this flag was picked they can go to the past threads and see all of the discusion and thought that was put into it. For the rest of us, we are ready to go onto the next round and all of this is taking a step backwards. This thread could be losing imput because people might just see everyone talking about the same old stuff. It's all feeling rather redundent.

It may feel redundant to you, but not to others. I think it's a good idea to discuss the symbolism of the colors.

I like having the white for our sexual allies. Plus, it's part of the sexual spectrum, which is something we want to convey to the world--that sexuality is not a bunch of distinct orientations but rather a continuum.

As for the purple, I know it was chosen because it's an AVEN color, but one could think of it as a blending of pink and blue (the typical gender binary). It adds to the whole spectrum idea in my opinion. ^_^

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TheyWhoShallNotBeNamed

For color, why not the AVEN front page purple? and for grey why not the shade on the 'post' 'use full editor' bar? not the buttons, but the bar of gray they are on. the grey (gray?) on the flag up there seems a bit light.

It definitely makes sense to use the color from AVEN, since AVEN is the reasoning behind the use of purple.

Here is what you described:

aflagAVENcolor.png

I do like the way it looks a lot, and it's completely web safe as well.

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corduroyjackalope

For color, why not the AVEN front page purple? and for grey why not the shade on the 'post' 'use full editor' bar? not the buttons, but the bar of gray they are on. the grey (gray?) on the flag up there seems a bit light.

It definitely makes sense to use the color from AVEN, since AVEN is the reasoning behind the use of purple.

Here is what you described:

aflagcolor.png

And here it is again, but using the closest web safe colors instead of the exact ones:

aflagcolor2.png

I do like the way the second one looks.

The top purple but the second grey. But both are pretty good :)

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TheyWhoShallNotBeNamed

For color, why not the AVEN front page purple? and for grey why not the shade on the 'post' 'use full editor' bar? not the buttons, but the bar of gray they are on. the grey (gray?) on the flag up there seems a bit light.

It definitely makes sense to use the color from AVEN, since AVEN is the reasoning behind the use of purple.

The top purple but the second grey. But both are pretty good :)

I actually went back and edited it, because I realized that they said the color on the front page, and I took the color from the forum bar. oops. I think it's actually an improvement, though.

aflagAVENcolor.png

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For color, why not the AVEN front page purple? and for grey why not the shade on the 'post' 'use full editor' bar? not the buttons, but the bar of gray they are on. the grey (gray?) on the flag up there seems a bit light.

It definitely makes sense to use the color from AVEN, since AVEN is the reasoning behind the use of purple.

Here is what you described:

aflagAVENcolor.png

I do like the way it looks a lot, and it's completely web safe as well.

Ehhhh... way to depressing for me.

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annwyl_cariad

Ehhhh... way to depressing for me.

I agree. I like the brighter purples; they give an otherwise grayscale flag a nice pop. While the more muted purple is a good color for a website, it doesn't strike me as terribly "proud" or happy.

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