TransWhatevers of AVEN

[Toothlesss]

1 hour ago, Hadley167 said:

You're taller than me.

Me too, I'm 5'5 

[kaysir]

1 minute ago, Toothlesss said:

Me too, I'm 5'5 

And me! I'm 5'3.

 

@ChillaKilla my dad is nearly 6 feet tall, but my mom is somewhere around 5'2. Me and my full siblings are tallest in the reverse order of our ages. My older sister is shortest, I'm a little taller than her, my younger brother is taller than me, and my youngest brother is taller than all of us. I say this figuring no mid-twenties growth spurts are going to hit us. Curses!

[butterflydreams]

I know this isn't the most direct, dedicated place to post this, but I trust people here.

 

I don't know how it happened, but I've found myself crushing on an actual, real-life person. It's moot, because I know he wouldn't like me back. Yeah, I still can't get over that aspect of myself.

[The-world-is-quiet-here]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post it, but this thread seems sort of like a catch-all, so I'll go for it.

 

For the past six weeks or so, my gender has been constantly, and consistently, female. Or at least more feminine than masculine. And it's weird. Like, it's nice to not deal with dysphoria, but on the other hand, I'm worried about my [nonbinary and/or masculine] gender coming back. I know worrying about it won't help, and it will come back if it feels like it. I've been feeling at least cis-genderless, if not cis. And I'm so unused to that- it's been over a year since I started questioning, and for most of that time I felt agender.

 

Speaking of worrying about my gender... I'm dating someone, and I'm really happy with her. She identifies as a lesbian, and I worry that she would stop being attracted to me if I acted or presented more masculinely. (Honestly, I'm not too good at that, but sometimes I try .) I haven't explicitly brought up the genderfluid thing with her yet. I know communication is really important. I'm scared.

[Alex the Queer]

3 hours ago, ChillaKilla said:

Talking of getting the short end of the height stick (literally), my biological parents are both over 6 feet but I'm barely scraping 5'8"

that's not that bad. i mean i'm literally 5 nothing and so fucking tiny and short

[ChillaKilla]

Just now, Hamiltrash Queer said:

that's not that bad. i mean i'm literally 5 nothing and so fucking tiny and short

I know I know, just dysphoric about my height :/ 

[Mezzo Forte]

I used to think I was 5'3", but I'm actually 5'2.5"  I honestly don't think I have height dysphoria. For some reason, height doesn't click as a very gendered thing in my mind. I don't even mind playful heckling over my height.

 

11 hours ago, Jayce said:

 Ah the short guy thing. I can sooo vouch for that one. I'm not even short, I'm average!

I'm 5~6 and can definetly imagine the short people issues. I was kinda hoping HRT would make you a bit taller..major bummer there   my dad is about 6 something..but unfortunatly got my mom's hights when i hit puberty. Hips are getting bonier? That's interesting. how about the boobs? Do they get smaller??? I'm so sorry but curiousity just took over^^

I play guitar, saxophone and keyboard so no trouble there, only eh, the guitar isn't really easy to handle with my short arms.Funny that the marimba is perfect for short people.I remember when i played in a orchestra the marimba was so high that i noticed the one who played it had to stand on their toes to reach out and play.Well they were very short anyway. Short people are always cool!

HRT can have an impact on height, but the extent varies. If your growth plates aren't closed, then I think you'd actually have the potential to get about as tall as you would if you were cis. Closed plates, and the only thing HRT is going to change that can impact height is your spine curvature. Some trans women actually lose 0.5"-2" while some trans men gain that amount because of that.

 

Marimba is kind of a mixed bag with height. The old instruments were not height-adjustable and were typically made at just the right height for someone like me while my taller friends have to prop each leg of the instrument with blocks of wood if they want to play it. Most marimbas as height-adjustable now, so that issue only applies to older instruments.

 

(The only instances I can think of that might require someone to play on their tiptoes is if they're either below 5' tall or playing on an instrument that was adjusted to someone else's height and they didn't want to fix it. Some cheaper marimbas lack pneumatic systems, so you have to carry the full weight of the instrument to adjust the height, which makes people hesitate to change it.)

 

My tall friends do have the advantage of extra arm span though. There are intervals that are physically impossible for me to reach, but so far, I've only encountered one piece that ever asked for an interval that large, and all it did was force me to temporarily bump the bass up an octave. (The musician who premiered that piece had to do the same thing.) 

 

EDIT: Oh and the hips/chest questions: HRT spurrs fat redistribution, which means that the body fat will move away from the chest and hips and into the gut. Your bone structure is fixed after a certain point, so in my case, my hips were already bony from a mix of weight loss and scoliosis, but HRT also contributed even as I gained weight. With the chest, you lose a bit of mass, but the breast tissue is permanent and can only be removed through surgery. Redistribution helped a lot of dysphoria, but I'm still really looking forward to top surgery. (Chest dysphoria's been hitting me hard recently and I'm not sure why.)

[Emery.]

Okey. New uni again. And strange question. So I have some of the guyish clothes which I honestly think make me look like a guy. I mean, it's just a hoodie and a t-shirt but loose enough and in such a design that I think my own reflection is a dude. I don't know how it'd look to other people, but that looks "she has a masculine style" up to "why does that dude go to the female toilet". I think that could raise some questions or awkward situations, if I didn't already. I mean one of the teachers, I'm not sure if he didn't think that I'm a guy... I didn't dare to check, because I could end up really awkward being commented on my gender in front of the whole class. And one dude I saw before somewhere lese told me he strangely didn't notice me... Like, hm, I really wonder, my physical appearance keeps on changing, and I sometimes look like a dude. So I don't know if I should dress like a dude right away or wait a bit. On one hand, yeah, be yourself. On the other, I just feel so awkward being so obvious. I don't want to draw attention. But maybe I need to. Somewhere inside, I want to finally be told "Are you a guy or a girl?" or "I thought you were a guy" or "You look like a guy" rather than people trying not to offend me. Or maybe I look like a girl, I don't know. I get madamed so rarely and there is the occasional sir here and there. But I've got no clue. Ugh. I'm so nervous about it.

 

edit: okey, I'm gonna do it and see if I'm just imagining it or something is going to happen. The worst I can get is what i already described, and that is managable. I'm scared though. I am. The last time I did it a lady in a clothes shop stared at me like at a pervert for looking at girl clothes and someone thought I'm my friend's boyfriend. So...

[Dodecahedron314]

On the height thing: I'm 5'3" or 5'4"ish, so...yeah. Good thing I already have a somewhat self-deprecating sense of humor to begin with. (My shortness is made even more noticeable by the fact that both of my closest friends at my university are somewhere around 6'3". I've already agreed with one of them that if it ever becomes possible to trade or share heights, we're doing so immediately.)

[Emery.]

I didn't dress like a guy today, but my sweater is quite big.

 

Anyway, I think I have so much social anxiety that I got over the last year or so. I mean. I'm trans/trans-ish. I have no clue what to do about it and all the gender details I dislike socially started to stick out to me once I noticed they could be there. I'm so nervous about every single interaction. More and more, because last semester and the semester before I've had some really bad experiences. It was guys hitting on me massively just because there are no other girls around, and some of those guys were quite awful. They didn't comprehend how a man and woman can be casual friends. Or how a woman can be... an individual, with unique qualities, not a cookie cutter copy of the stereotype. Or at least treated me like a woman, which I mentally am not, and it just is not human contact if someone assumes so many false things about you. Even worse. It's like being behind a glass, soundproof wall. I hate it so much. They misinterpreted every single thing I did or said. Just by an assumption, without giving me the possibility to protest. So I have reasons to be anxious. 

 

But it turned out good today. Maybe it's not going to be that bad. Dammit. I have a problem and I need to solve it, not pretend it's not there. But I'm so clueless as to how. It was okey today. I'm watching closely for signs if it's improving and why. *sigh*

[Toothlesss]

1 hour ago, Emery. said:

Or at least treated me like a woman, which I mentally am not, and it just is not human contact if someone assumes so many false things about you. Even worse. It's like being behind a glass, soundproof wall. I hate it so much. They misinterpreted every single thing I did or said. Just by an assumption, without giving me the possibility to protest. So I have reasons to be anxious. 

I get this alot on my bad days. I try not to take it seriously, because the truth is they don't know the real you. 

 

 

[Emery.]

10 minutes ago, Toothlesss said:

I get this alot on my bad days. I try not to take it seriously, because the truth is they don't know the real you. 

 

that's exactly the problem tho... I want company, I need company. You guys are fine ;), but I need much more.

[butterflydreams]

@Mezzo Forte I get a kick out of imagining you being like, "Hang on dudes, I gotta take some of this protein powder...I'm bulking up to really slay this marimba piece!"  I don't know why, because I know you're most likely not doing that. I remember the gym teachers in high school trying to get me into the weight room. I was like, "wtf, I can't defy physics...I'm 5'7", this machine is literally crushing me!"

 

I seem to be beating myself up like crazy this week with internet articles. The latest round make it sound like there is basically no hope of finding a partner who's ok with you being trans. A couple of one-off "success" stories notwithstanding. I could wish, dream, hope for, want and work 5x harder than anyone else but I'm never gonna have the kind of relationship my friend does. It's just not possible. It's hard because I've talked to her about it, but I'm not sure she really understands. She treats me and my situation as if I were cis, which I'm grateful for, but I'm not cis, and when it comes to finding and being with a partner, that's a pretty key element it seems.

[JAKQ7111]

1 hour ago, Hadley167 said:

@Mezzo Forte I get a kick out of imagining you being like, "Hang on dudes, I gotta take some of this protein powder...I'm bulking up to really slay this marimba piece!"  I don't know why, because I know you're most likely not doing that. I remember the gym teachers in high school trying to get me into the weight room. I was like, "wtf, I can't defy physics...I'm 5'7", this machine is literally crushing me!"

 

I seem to be beating myself up like crazy this week with internet articles. The latest round make it sound like there is basically no hope of finding a partner who's ok with you being trans. A couple of one-off "success" stories notwithstanding. I could wish, dream, hope for, want and work 5x harder than anyone else but I'm never gonna have the kind of relationship my friend does. It's just not possible. It's hard because I've talked to her about it, but I'm not sure she really understands. She treats me and my situation as if I were cis, which I'm grateful for, but I'm not cis, and when it comes to finding and being with a partner, that's a pretty key element it seems.

I'm 5'5", and I did a bit of weight training back in high school.  I used to be able to lift 100lbs on the rowing machine when I was at my peak.  That said, most of my physical education in high school was spent doing yoga, which I favored both as a stress release/anxiety therapy and as a way to avoid playing sports.  I was always one of the few MAAB students in the class, and at one point, the only one.  Wouldn't trade it for the world, though!

 

@Hadley167: What kind of relationship are you looking for/what do you look for in a partner?  Because the answer to those questions might help you find someone who not only loves you in spite of your trans status, but appreciates the journey it took for you to become your most authentic self.  For me, it just so happens that two of the last four partners that I have had were some variety of trans themselves (my current girlfriend is a trans woman, and my most recent ex is genderfluid), and I have a basically all-trans polycule now.  Of course, even the cis people I've dated have been pretty queer and/or just generally critical of heteronormativity, which largely comes with the territory of being openly poly, but it certainly made it easier on me to find partners who will not treat me like a man or a woman, and embrace me as the proud NB I am.  I am genuinely curious as to how you will respond to my question and my own personal anecdote on dating while trans.

[Mezzo Forte]

2 hours ago, Hadley167 said:

"Hang on dudes, I gotta take some of this protein powder...I'm bulking up to really slay this marimba piece!"

Dang, you discovered my secret to my sick marimba chops. (I read that quote in the most entertaining surfer/party bro accent for some reason.) 

 

and sorry that all those articles have been getting you down. I feel like the struggles of longing for a partner tend to elicit basic cheering squad "you can do it" responses because there is only so much others can do. I remember watching my best friend struggle for years with this, and I felt his pain so bad that I had to resist offering to date him myself so I could make the pain go away. (I thankfully know better than to actually do that.) It's honestly one of those things that you struggle with until you find yourself in a relationship. Dating already feels hopeless enough for cis people, so anything that limits your pool of options even more is going to frustrate you, and you know better than I about the minefield of dating while trans.

 

I wish I had advice or encouraging words, but I know that things like "I believe in you" can actually feel more demoralizing than encouraging in these situations. Sometimes, finding a partner is a really long haul, but I hope you have better luck sooner rather than later. *hugs*

[butterflydreams]

6 minutes ago, JAKQ7111 said:

What kind of relationship are you looking for/what do you look for in a partner?

Kind of relationship? Like mono/poly? I've tried to simmer the poly idea to make it work for me, but the truth is that it doesn't. If I did it, I'd end up hurting someone and/or getting hurt myself. I guess I'd like someone who saw my best attributes. Someone who was focused on nature. You'd think those people would be everywhere, but they really aren't. And yeah, I totally think this journey has created a kind of asset of awareness in me that would be useful and beneficial when interacting with others, but others don't seem to care about that. Maybe I'm barking up all the wrong trees. Maybe I'm trying too hard to date like a cis person, and I can't let that dream go.

 

And I've said it before, I'd have no problem at all dating another trans person. No hesitations on that. Genitals aren't that important to me, I can probably work with whatever is there. I understand that isn't the case for everyone though. I can't help it that I'm generally not into women. Cis or trans. I mean, maybe, but it's much harder for me to imagine what that person is like. It feels clashy in my head. When I imagine myself with a guy, it feels right. All of my best parts come out. Parts that wouldn't come out for anyone else, in any other situation.

 

16 minutes ago, JAKQ7111 said:

but it certainly made it easier on me to find partners who will not treat me like a man or a woman, and embrace me as the proud NB I am.

I think this is really great. I would've thought finding people to affirm you as nonbinary would've been more difficult, but then, maybe you were starting from a better pool of people who were more likely to be receptive. I don't run in any kind of queer circles, nor would I really feel comfortable doing so. It's just not me. I'd feel weird if the primary glue was queerness. I don't like seeing myself as queer. I really don't. Let's talk about bike riding, or music, or special natural places no one knows or cares about. That's who I am. The person who gets lost on google maps just exploring places. Thinking about rivers and how amazing they are. The girl who sees wonder in the simplest things. Where are those other people?

 

14 minutes ago, Mezzo Forte said:

(I read that quote in the most entertaining surfer/party bro accent for some reason.) 

Heck yeah, you did, as I was hoping you would  

[JAKQ7111]

2 minutes ago, Hadley167 said:

Kind of relationship? Like mono/poly? I've tried to simmer the poly idea to make it work for me, but the truth is that it doesn't. If I did it, I'd end up hurting someone and/or getting hurt myself. I guess I'd like someone who saw my best attributes. Someone who was focused on nature. You'd think those people would be everywhere, but they really aren't. And yeah, I totally think this journey has created a kind of asset of awareness in me that would be useful and beneficial when interacting with others, but others don't seem to care about that. Maybe I'm barking up all the wrong trees. Maybe I'm trying too hard to date like a cis person, and I can't let that dream go.

I didn't just mean mono/poly, but just generally what you want your relationship dynamic to look like, or what qualities you find attractive in a partner.  Like, I tend to be drawn towards the "alternative" types--artists, musicians, writers, geeks, and just general free spirits who aren't afraid to go against the grain.  Again, I think the circles I've found myself in over the last couple of years have helped me in that regard: An asexual, polyamorous NB isn't too outlandish, and I'm likely to find some kindred spirits along the way.

 

I don't know what "dating like a cis person" means anymore, since I've only had two short relationships before I came out, and those were a long time ago now.  The distinction I make from what I remember about myself in those 'ships as compared to my more recent ones is not cis/trans, but generally closeted/out, or dating as myself/not myself.  Since I came out as each thing that I am while I was in the same single period, I have a hard time parsing out what inauthenticity was due to my gender, my sexuality, or anything else.

 

10 minutes ago, Hadley167 said:

And I've said it before, I'd have no problem at all dating another trans person. No hesitations on that. Genitals aren't that important to me, I can probably work with whatever is there. I understand that isn't the case for everyone though. I can't help it that I'm generally not into women. Cis or trans. I mean, maybe, but it's much harder for me to imagine what that person is like. It feels clashy in my head. When I imagine myself with a guy, it feels right. All of my best parts come out. Parts that wouldn't come out for anyone else, in any other situation.

Genitals aren't important to me either, for reasons that should be fairly obvious.  I'm the opposite of you, in that I have a hard time picturing myself with a man, but I don't think that's because I inherently like men less than other genders.  I just happen to have far less experience with men, and have no idea what a relationship with one would be like, as compared to the relationships I have had with women or other genders.  And for me personally, that makes me really want to try my hand at dating a guy!  The problems I have there are A: It seems like guys that are my "type" aren't that into me, and B: I tend to click better with women socially, for whatever reason.  I don't know.  Differences like that fascinate me, and I am eager to explore that other side.  That said, most of the things I find attractive in a person are the same regardless of gender: I like height, deep voices, long/dyed/otherwise distinctive hair, tattoos, glasses etc.  I've often said that the guys I like are the "bishounen", pretty-boy types, attractive in similar ways to the girls I like.  To me, gender is as (ir)relevant in a partner as, say, hair color.  I may have a preference one way or another, but it is not hard-and-fast, and I am certainly open to other possibilities.  It may be different for you, though.

[butterflydreams]

11 hours ago, JAKQ7111 said:

I didn't just mean mono/poly, but just generally what you want your relationship dynamic to look like, or what qualities you find attractive in a partner.  Like, I tend to be drawn towards the "alternative" types--artists, musicians, writers, geeks, and just general free spirits who aren't afraid to go against the grain.  Again, I think the circles I've found myself in over the last couple of years have helped me in that regard: An asexual, polyamorous NB isn't too outlandish, and I'm likely to find some kindred spirits along the way.

Yes, this makes a lot of sense. I feel bad because I'm a lot more plain Jane than that. Does that mean my chances are less? It's hard to say. Certainly seems like it.

 

I also tend to lean heavily on online dating. But it hasn't yielded a real life date since April or May of 2016. And it's never yielded a date with a guy. Maybe only a dozen conversations over all that time as well. It's brutal. Then you have something like tinder, where guys just swipe every single woman without reading. I frequently get matches that disappear almost instantly, presumably because they read I'm trans. From pictures it's very not obvious, but I mention it in my profile.

 

Like you I definitely click with women socially. I always have. But I don't click with them romantically. At least, I never really have before. Unlike you I've never had any kind of relationship with anyone before. I was "attracted" to a handful of girls in high school and college, but it was mostly because they seemed to show a minimum of interest in me, and I was responding how I thought I was supposed to. So my entire experience here could be argued to be hypothetical. But I don't know, there's just something I know deep down...even my recent crush on a real life guy I know. 

 

I dunno, should I call myself pan? I've definitely considered it, but I can't say I've ever found myself attracted to a NB person (knowingly, of course). Not saying it's impossible, but I don't get that strong ping back that I get from guys and occasional women. I am aware that cis women on average can be a bit more flexible on this stuff. Ugh...just my luck. I think this is why it's so easy to find cis woman - trans guy couples in videos on youtube. Whereas I don't think I've ever seen a cis guy - trans woman couple talking about their relationship Which is a big downer.

[JAKQ7111]

20 minutes ago, Hadley167 said:

 

I also tend to lean heavily on online dating. But it hasn't yielded a real life date since April or May of 2016. And it's never yielded a date with a guy. Maybe only a dozen conversations over all that time as well. It's brutal. Then you have something like tinder, where guys just swipe every single woman without reading. I frequently get matches that disappear almost instantly, presumably because they read I'm trans. From pictures it's very not obvious, but I mention it in my profile.

Yep.  Online dating has been my saving grace ever since I graduated from college.  I've met four out of the seven partners I've had that way.  It's easier on my social anxiety, plus having a profile out there in the open like that makes it easy to know with whom I will and will not click.  OKCupid has been my bread and butter, but I also have HER (for women seeking women), and Surge (for men seeking men), though I've had little to no luck with either.

 

20 minutes ago, Hadley167 said:

Like you I definitely click with women socially. I always have. But I don't click with them romantically. At least, I never really have before. Unlike you I've never had any kind of relationship with anyone before. I was "attracted" to a handful of girls in high school and college, but it was mostly because they seemed to show a minimum of interest in me, and I was responding how I thought I was supposed to. So my entire experience here could be argued to be hypothetical. But I don't know, there's just something I know deep down...even my recent crush on a real life guy I know. 

I mean, if you know you like someone or something, I see no reason to discount that!  The women you knew in your past, yeah, from what I'm reading, I can see that being a bit dubious, but if you have an actual crush on an actual person you know, that's got to count for something, right?  And as for me, I've had friends of all genders, and I know I can appreciate all genders from an aesthetic point of view.  Sensually, I guess all as well, but again, I'm not 100% sure. I need more data samples before I can safely say whether my apparent preference for women is innate or simply coincidental.  I need to meet more guys in a romantic context before I can tell for sure how much of my attraction for them is merely hypothetical, or if it is there in practice as well.  I've gone on dates with four or so guys, and only had that fluttery crush feeling for one of them.  I suppose I had a hypothetical crush on my ex-metamour (when he was still my metamour), but my jealousy of him grew stronger than my attraction to him, so that was never something that I really explored beyond talking about it briefly with our shared partner.

 

20 minutes ago, Hadley167 said:

I dunno, should I call myself pan? I've definitely considered it, but I can't say I've ever found myself attracted to a NB person (knowingly, of course). Not saying it's impossible, but I don't get that strong ping back that I get from guys and occasional women. I am aware that cis women on average can be a bit more flexible on this stuff. Ugh...just my luck. I think this is why it's so easy to find cis woman - trans guy couples in videos on youtube. Whereas I don't think I've ever seen a cis guy - trans woman couple talking about their relationship Which is a big downer.

Honestly, you sound a lot like the inverse of my girlfriend.  She has a strong preference for women (probably a 5 on the Kinsey Scale, if I had to guess), but waffles back and forth between calling herself a lesbian or a girl-leaning bisexual.  Lately, she's been going with the latter category, though, probably in no small part due to the fact that two out of her three partners are non-binary.

 

And as for the cis-trans partnerships, yeah, I suppose cis women tend to date trans people more on average, but I for sure know cis guys who have done so, as well.  Like I said, I've attempted to go out with a small handful of guys, all of whom were cis (though my first guy crush was on a trans male friend I had back in college), and I've talked to another handful of cis guys on dating sites that didn't result in meeting up.  I suspect that a part of the reason why we dont' hear a lot about cis guys dating trans folks is because there is a strong negative stigma against "trans-attracted men", with folks assuming them all to be chasers or something.  Plus, as I've said a few times in a few different threads, it seems like a lot of the time, we trans folks just end up dating each other anyway

[butterflydreams]

Would it be ok to seek out trans guys? I mean, I don't want to single them out as being different from other guys, or even more likely to date a trans woman. It just has the apparent advantage that we are both trans, so we understand that part. Plus I get to be with a guy, and he'd get to be with a woman just like we'd want (assuming he was straight or I or something). I really don't see trans guys as different from cis guys. I can just as easily be attracted to them. 

 

For whatever reason though, it often seems like trans guys are just as hesitant about dating trans women as cis guys. I've seen a lot of straight trans guys online acting like they're better than trans women because they pass better.

[JAKQ7111]

3 minutes ago, Hadley167 said:

Would it be ok to seek out trans guys? I mean, I don't want to single them out as being different from other guys, or even more likely to date a trans woman. It just has the apparent advantage that we are both trans, so we understand that part. Plus I get to be with a guy, and he'd get to be with a woman just like we'd want (assuming he was straight or I or something). I really don't see trans guys as different from cis guys. I can just as easily be attracted to them. 

 

For whatever reason though, it often seems like trans guys are just as hesitant about dating trans women as cis guys. I've seen a lot of straight trans guys online acting like they're better than trans women because they pass better.

It's totally okay to seek out whomever you want!  As long as you and the person(s) you pursue are on the same page, you're all good!  I didn't mean it so trans men would be more likely to date trans women, but that the shared experience of being trans is just one thing you could connect on.  That said, I know next to nothing about trans male culture, since most of my trans friends are female or non-binary, so I don't know the proportion of trans men who date trans women, say, or any stigma they may attach thereto. 

 

Most of my experience with trans-trans couples is with two trans women, two NBs, or a trans woman and an NB, but that's just because of the circles I roll in, most likely.  I have one close trans male friend, like I said, and he is pansexual.  To the best of my knowledge, most of his partners have been male, but he and I don't talk as much anymore as we used to, so that could have changed.

 

I guess my next question is this: Is it a requirement for you that your guy be 100% straight, or could you see yourself dating someone who was bi/pan/ace/something else, as long as he is interested in you?

[Toothlesss]

14 hours ago, JAKQ7111 said:

That said, most of my physical education in high school was spent doing yoga, which I favored both as a stress release/anxiety therapy and as a way to avoid playing sports.  I was always one of the few MAAB students in the class, and at one point, the only one.  Wouldn't trade it for the world, though!

I did that too. Anything to get out of playing sports. For me, sports were a waste of time. I took ballet back then too (outside of school). 

[butterflydreams]

14 minutes ago, JAKQ7111 said:

I guess my next question is this: Is it a requirement for you that your guy be 100% straight, or could you see yourself dating someone who was bi/pan/ace/something else, as long as he is interested in you?

It's a 100% requirement that he see me as a woman and if sex were on the table, that I'm never expected to be male or use parts I may have in such a way. 

[JAKQ7111]

Just now, Hadley167 said:

It's a 100% requirement that he see me as a woman and if sex were on the table, that I'm never expected to be male or use parts I may have in such a way. 

That seems pretty straightforward.  Yeah, I see no reason why a bi+ guy would not see you as the woman you are any less than a straight guy would.  Personally, I would have a hard time dating anyone who isn't bi+, simply because my gender slides around so much that I would feel a monosexual would not be able to love me for all of me.  I'd wager a guess that you won't run into that issue, yourself.

[butterflydreams]

3 minutes ago, JAKQ7111 said:

That seems pretty straightforward.  Yeah, I see no reason why a bi+ guy would not see you as the woman you are any less than a straight guy would.  Personally, I would have a hard time dating anyone who isn't bi+, simply because my gender slides around so much that I would feel a monosexual would not be able to love me for all of me.  I'd wager a guess that you won't run into that issue, yourself.

Yeah, I just really hate that "chick with a dick" trope and or fetish. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's not me, and I don't want to be objectified that way. And you're right that I won't really need to worry about sliding around myself. People do say I give off a very feminine vibe. I hope that's true. And I hope it's enough for some guy  

[Mezzo Forte]

40 minutes ago, Hadley167 said:

For whatever reason though, it often seems like trans guys are just as hesitant about dating trans women as cis guys. I've seen a lot of straight trans guys online acting like they're better than trans women because they pass better.

Interesting to hear. I feel like MtF and FtM communities have a way of being fairly estranged from each other, so perhaps these kinds of attitudes crop up as a result. I feel like the majority of relationships I hear about in FtM communities are transmen dating either ciswomen, AFAB nonbinary people, or other transmen, but while I sometimes hear commentary about cis gay men in these circles, I just don't hear the dialogues about dating transwomen. (I can think of one news segment I've seen of a transman/transwoman married couple having children via natural conception, but the segment didn't say much that in regards to dating.)

 

I personally would be understanding if a transperson took interest in me in part because of my gender. I'm inclined to think that trans people who seek out other trans people as partners are looking more for empathy than for someone to fetishize. 

 

(I do wonder how much height stigmas come into play with transmen/transwomen dating each other though. I know plenty of shorter transmen deal with height dysphoria, and I presume that plenty of taller transwomen do as well. Height and Dating are complicated enough before you throw dysphoria into the mix.)

[Emery.]

I don't understand being monosexual. At all. There is reason of course, and a "You won't have kids with this person" voice. But other than that? Men and women are so similar. The line is so unclear. Looking for a tall person? There are a lot of strong, tall women. Looking for someone pretty? There are so many pretty men. It's just a combination of traits. I'm inclined to think that it's a closed mind that makes people 100% into one gender. Okey, some traits are more common for one gender and you can obviously have a lean to it, but other than that?

[butterflydreams]

4 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

Interesting to hear. I feel like MtF and FtM communities have a way of being fairly estranged from each other, so perhaps these kinds of attitudes crop up as a result.

I agree. It's the dumbest thing ever IMHO. I've known so many cool trans guys (you included) from whom I've learned so much. We can learn a lot from each other.

 

4 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

I feel like the majority of relationships I hear about in FtM communities are transmen dating either ciswomen, AFAB nonbinary people, or other transmen, but while I sometimes hear commentary about cis gay men in these circles, I just don't hear the dialogues about dating transwomen.

I know, right?! This is basically exactly the same thing I see. Could it possibly be the same old thing that trans women are just untouchable? We're weird "freaks" to everyone. Nobody wants to be seen dating us for sure. It's a hurtful message to absorb, I won't lie.

 

4 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

I personally would be understanding if a transperson took interest in me in part because of my gender. I'm inclined to think that trans people who seek out other trans people as partners are looking more for empathy than for someone to fetishize. 

That's good to know. I'm certainly not looking to fetishize anyone, I just want to be with a guy, that's all. The way people talk about it, you'd think I was a disgusting burden who'd bring them down. Ugh, nobody wants to feel like that. How horrid  That's kind of the crux that I think can be harder to communicate to cis friends. Yes, I am just like any other woman, but for the circumstances of my birth, I can't just do the same things other women would do in this situation. Clearly, I am different. Like it or not. No matter how much I appear and act and seem just like any other woman, I don't have the privilege of being desired like any other woman.

 

4 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

(I do wonder how much height stigmas come into play with transmen/transwomen dating each other though. I know plenty of shorter transmen deal with height dysphoria, and I presume that plenty of taller transwomen do as well. Height and Dating are complicated enough before you throw dysphoria into the mix.)

Oh geez, I sure hope not, but I'm way too jaded to seriously think it doesn't come into play. Personally, I always felt like shorter guys with taller girlfriends are the cutest couples ever. I get that I'm probably a minority with that opinion though.

[Guest And Peggy]

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[Mezzo Forte]

@Hadley167, I'd like to think that most transmen wouldn't think of transwomen as untouchable. (I would hope that fellow trans people would know better.) I strongly suspect that the separation of the MtF and FtM communities just makes crossing paths less common, which would then make dating less common. I suspect that a lot of the separation comes from just how laser-focused we can get about our own transitions. In my experience, A lot of communities form around researching transition (looking up how to pass, the effects of HRT, surgical results), and that makes us more likely to seek out fellow transmen/transwomen even for the experiences we share. I don't have much experience with dating spaces, so I can't really comment about that in particular, but I still think it's a numbers game since the community is so disconnected.

 

I can't say I ever understood the hangups over height in the dating world, but I resent how it leads to stereotypes about short guys being insecure or bitter. (I also don't like the correlation between height and average income, surprise surprise.) When I talk to women who are even slightly above average height, they often talk about men being intimidated to talk to them, and that confuses me so much.