TransGirls of Aven

[Typical Power]

Before anyone comments on my choosing the word girl over woman. It was to differentiate the threads.

AVEN has many more FtM's then MtF's. And there is a thread specifically for the guys.

I can name of the Tguys, but I haven't the slightest clue who else on here is a Tgirl.

So, lets talk about T-girly things.

Because I'm lonely feeling like the only T-Girl here sometimes. :evil:

[Oceania]

Yay! I was wondering if there was going to be a version of that thread for us. Haha. So um, how goes it?

[GirlInside]

You think you're lonely? Try being the only girl in a guy's body who doesn't transition.

[Oceania]

I'm not transitioning either. It's tough, but I think transitioning would be tougher.

[Teagan KGB]

I didn't mean to leave you ladies out. But as of yet I don't have any mtF characters. I'll be sure to ask for your stories for inspiration when I do. ;)

[Oceania]

Ah well, that's okay with me. Now we have a thread to gather in. There aren't many of us here on AVEN afterall, so it's neat to see us all in one place.

[Typical Power]

I sort of think that one of the reasons there are less of us is that, well the female body is so over sexualized, so It seems like an Asexual MtF might avoid transition because of it...

But that is just my mind wandering, anyone else think of that though?

[Typical Power]

I didn't mean to leave you ladies out. But as of yet I don't have any mtF characters. I'll be sure to ask for your stories for inspiration when I do. ;)

It's fine. I wanted to start this thread even without your thread being there.

We're a pretty rare species it seems.

[Oceania]

Hmm, maybe. I guess it would also make sense that men tend to bottle their feelings more than women and likely don't accept their true selves as much as women. As such, I think that transmen are in a much better position to freely explore themselves without being criticized by society as that is socially acceptable for a female, hence how many would end up on here. Whereas us, we are at a bit of a disadvantage as men are judged as unmanly to explore their identity. Though, we are prone to rebel against this I'd reckon. But that's what I can come up with, if it makes any sense.

[Lady Longshadow]

Hmm, maybe. I guess it would also make sense that men tend to bottle their feelings more than women and likely don't accept their true selves as much as women. As such, I think that transmen are in a much better position to freely explore themselves without being criticized by society as that is socially acceptable for a female, hence how many would end up on here. Whereas us, we are at a bit of a disadvantage as men are judged as unmanly to explore their identity. Though, we are prone to rebel against this I'd reckon. But that's what I can come up with, if it makes any sense.

I think I see what you're getting at, but the opposite has been my experience in the trans community. The girls tend to talk way more guys, regardless of what is socially prescribed by society.

But yeah, I transitioned, and then came to identify as ace. I had quite the sex drive pre-transition, despite my lack of interest in actual sex. Now I have no drive and am just generally bitter about relationships. I tried really hard to like sex, but it wasn't worth it. =/

[Oceania]

I think I see what you're getting at, but the opposite has been my experience in the trans community. The girls tend to talk way more guys, regardless of what is socially prescribed by society.

Ah well, just something I thought of. I can't really think of why else we would be so seemingly rare here on AVEN. Afterall, as you suggest, in the general trans population there are more girls than guys. But perhaps it goes back to what Typical Power said, that because women are so overly-sexualized, it is rather ironic/contradictory to be an asexual transgirl.

[Typical Power]

I think I see what you're getting at, but the opposite has been my experience in the trans community. The girls tend to talk way more guys, regardless of what is socially prescribed by society.

Ah well, just something I thought of. I can't really think of why else we would be so seemingly rare here on AVEN. Afterall, as you suggest, in the general trans population there are more girls than guys. But perhaps it goes back to what Typical Power said, that because women are so overly-sexualized, it is rather ironic/contradictory to be an asexual transgirl.

Well... I'm a tomboy anyways. Just another step in the contradiction.

It took me a long time to really figure out how to say what I am... being very very genderqueer.... I'm just Genderqueer from the opposite side of the gender spectrum from What I was born into.

Personally, I'm... attempting transition. Although It's not going to be easy at all.... ugh...

Not like anyone ever said it was. But, I can't really live both happy, and in my current biological state right now.

[Oceania]

I think I see what you're getting at, but the opposite has been my experience in the trans community. The girls tend to talk way more guys, regardless of what is socially prescribed by society.

Ah well, just something I thought of. I can't really think of why else we would be so seemingly rare here on AVEN. Afterall, as you suggest, in the general trans population there are more girls than guys. But perhaps it goes back to what Typical Power said, that because women are so overly-sexualized, it is rather ironic/contradictory to be an asexual transgirl.

Well... I'm a tomboy anyways. Just another step in the contradiction.

It took me a long time to really figure out how to say what I am... being very very genderqueer.... I'm just Genderqueer from the opposite side of the gender spectrum from What I was born into.

Personally, I'm... attempting transition. Although It's not going to be easy at all.... ugh...

Not like anyone ever said it was. But, I can't really live both happy, and in my current biological state right now.

I think I'm a little tomboyish too; I'm certainly not hyper-feminine. I wish you luck with your transition. I've been considering it a lot lately, but so far I'm still set on not transtioning. I'm not even out to anyone other than those here on AVEN.

[Lady Longshadow]

I've found transition to be both incredibly frustrating and rewarding. I'm so happy with what I have been able to change about myself, and prevent from happening, but there are still so many things I can't change. I will always be incredibly tall, my face will always be something between male and female, and after years on hormones I'm still only an A, which is tiny for somebody my size. I've though of saving for breast augmentation and facial surgery, but I pass anyway, and there is something nice about having a boyishly androgynous body. Would it really be worth it to go through the pain and expense of further surgery? I'm still conflicted, but leaning more toward 'no'.

I'm not your typical girly-girl either, but nor am I a tomboy. I often dress very feminine, with skirts and jewelry, but also like to wear a nice suit on occasion, or a boy's hoodie and jeans. I really don't mind looking boyish, just so long as I don't look like a man.

[Typical Power]

I've found transition to be both incredibly frustrating and rewarding. I'm so happy with what I have been able to change about myself, and prevent from happening, but there are still so many things I can't change. I will always be incredibly tall, my face will always be something between male and female, and after years on hormones I'm still only an A, which is tiny for somebody my size. I've though of saving for breast augmentation and facial surgery, but I pass anyway, and there is something nice about having a boyishly androgynous body. Would it really be worth it to go through the pain and expense of further surgery? I'm still conflicted, but leaning more toward 'no'.

I'm not your typical girly-girl either, but nor am I a tomboy. I often dress very feminine, with skirts and jewelry, but also like to wear a nice suit on occasion, or a boy's hoodie and jeans. I really don't mind looking boyish, just so long as I don't look like a man.

It's awesome that you are able to do that and not come off as a man. I hope one day I can be "butch" instead of "A man" haha...

I used to worry about my height, but then I realized how many girls I have to look up to. There are some very very tall girls out there.

[Oceania]

I've found transition to be both incredibly frustrating and rewarding. I'm so happy with what I have been able to change about myself, and prevent from happening, but there are still so many things I can't change. I will always be incredibly tall, my face will always be something between male and female, and after years on hormones I'm still only an A, which is tiny for somebody my size. I've though of saving for breast augmentation and facial surgery, but I pass anyway, and there is something nice about having a boyishly androgynous body. Would it really be worth it to go through the pain and expense of further surgery? I'm still conflicted, but leaning more toward 'no'.

I'm not your typical girly-girl either, but nor am I a tomboy. I often dress very feminine, with skirts and jewelry, but also like to wear a nice suit on occasion, or a boy's hoodie and jeans. I really don't mind looking boyish, just so long as I don't look like a man.

Yeah, I'm not sure how well my family would take it, when half of my family is Mormon, and the other half, well I don't even know many from the other half. I suppose I could always make my own family from whatever is left of them and my friends. But I have so much loyalty towards those I care about.

But I still got to start with the first step of coming out. <_<

[Oka-sama]

Not a MtF, but since I'm a FtN (Female to Neuter) I get one free post. It's great to see you girls get your own thread. ^_^

[Oceania]

Hehe, yep. We got a party going on in here. Even though there are only a few of us...

I think each gender identity should have its own thread now. We got the transguys and now the transgirls.

[Typical Power]

Party... woo..

I know there is at LEAST one more Tgirl on here...

(Where is Feline Huggles?)

[Typical Power]

Our group is so tiny.... And there is no cry emoticon....

I am saddened.

[Oceania]

Our group is so tiny.... And there is no cry emoticon....

I am saddened.

Yeah, the closest to crying is this: :(

But it makes me feel special, like I'm super unique. I don't like much conformity afterall.

[Lady Longshadow]

I've found transition to be both incredibly frustrating and rewarding. I'm so happy with what I have been able to change about myself, and prevent from happening, but there are still so many things I can't change. I will always be incredibly tall, my face will always be something between male and female, and after years on hormones I'm still only an A, which is tiny for somebody my size. I've though of saving for breast augmentation and facial surgery, but I pass anyway, and there is something nice about having a boyishly androgynous body. Would it really be worth it to go through the pain and expense of further surgery? I'm still conflicted, but leaning more toward 'no'.

I'm not your typical girly-girl either, but nor am I a tomboy. I often dress very feminine, with skirts and jewelry, but also like to wear a nice suit on occasion, or a boy's hoodie and jeans. I really don't mind looking boyish, just so long as I don't look like a man.

It's awesome that you are able to do that and not come off as a man. I hope one day I can be "butch" instead of "A man" haha...

I used to worry about my height, but then I realized how many girls I have to look up to. There are some very very tall girls out there.

Well, when I go more andro I do tend to get more "is that a man or a woman" type comments, but a surprising number of people just presume I'm female without question. I have to be careful though since I could quite easily pass as male if I wanted. It's a freedom I really don't want.

[GirlInside]

I sort of think that one of the reasons there are less of us is that, well the female body is so over sexualized, so It seems like an Asexual MtF might avoid transition because of it...

I don't think this is it. After all, few men are attracted to transwomen; many MTFs complain about being unable to get a date.

Well... I'm a tomboy anyways. Just another step in the contradiction.

It took me a long time to really figure out how to say what I am... being very very genderqueer.... I'm just Genderqueer from the opposite side of the gender spectrum from What I was born into.

I think I'm a little tomboyish too; I'm certainly not hyper-feminine.

A lot of transgirls I have met call themselves tomboys in boys' bodies. Whereas I'm nothing of the sort; except for some geeky interests, I'm about as un-tomboyish as they come. I mean, I'm not the stereotypical hyper-feminine type, but I'm more feminine in a lot of ways than a lot of genetic women I've known.

Why aren't there more of us who have a more traditional type of femininity?

[Typical Power]

I sort of think that one of the reasons there are less of us is that, well the female body is so over sexualized, so It seems like an Asexual MtF might avoid transition because of it...

I don't think this is it. After all, few men are attracted to transwomen; many MTFs complain about being unable to get a date.

Well... I'm a tomboy anyways. Just another step in the contradiction.

It took me a long time to really figure out how to say what I am... being very very genderqueer.... I'm just Genderqueer from the opposite side of the gender spectrum from What I was born into.

I think I'm a little tomboyish too; I'm certainly not hyper-feminine.

A lot of transgirls I have met call themselves tomboys in boys' bodies. Whereas I'm nothing of the sort; except for some geeky interests, I'm about as un-tomboyish as they come. I mean, I'm not the stereotypical hyper-feminine type, but I'm more feminine in a lot of ways than a lot of genetic women I've known.

Why aren't there more of us who have a more traditional type of femininity?

Why are there more of us in general.

Besides, I'm girl-tastic. :lol:

It's just that, I get both worlds.

I like many stereotypically feminine things,

but I don't really notice them.

Where as, masculine things that I do are lorded over me.

So I notice them more.

Take for example Amelia Earhart...

Would you say she was a traditionally "feminine" person?

She may have been famous for flying, but that doesn't make her any less of a girl.

(Or at least she was cis to my knowledge.. )

[Oceania]

I sort of think that one of the reasons there are less of us is that, well the female body is so over sexualized, so It seems like an Asexual MtF might avoid transition because of it...

I don't think this is it. After all, few men are attracted to transwomen; many MTFs complain about being unable to get a date.

Well... I'm a tomboy anyways. Just another step in the contradiction.

It took me a long time to really figure out how to say what I am... being very very genderqueer.... I'm just Genderqueer from the opposite side of the gender spectrum from What I was born into.

I think I'm a little tomboyish too; I'm certainly not hyper-feminine.

A lot of transgirls I have met call themselves tomboys in boys' bodies. Whereas I'm nothing of the sort; except for some geeky interests, I'm about as un-tomboyish as they come. I mean, I'm not the stereotypical hyper-feminine type, but I'm more feminine in a lot of ways than a lot of genetic women I've known.

Why aren't there more of us who have a more traditional type of femininity?

I think there are not too many traditionally feminine type transgirls because, growing up as male, we may be conditioned to masculine behaviors despite our identity. In person, I can be a bit distant emotionally, and I don't express a whole lot of emotion unless I'm with friends (even then it is limited). But having been bullied throughout middle school, I became conditioned to put up that icy emotional wall (albeit, to protect myself rather than conforming) that is more commonly seen in males than females. I think it can be a bit hard to uncondition yourself (I've been trying to break that emotional wall as much as possible in the past four years). Just my thoughts.

And just wondering... Should we all, like, be friends?

[Typical Power]

I sort of think that one of the reasons there are less of us is that, well the female body is so over sexualized, so It seems like an Asexual MtF might avoid transition because of it...

I don't think this is it. After all, few men are attracted to transwomen; many MTFs complain about being unable to get a date.

Well... I'm a tomboy anyways. Just another step in the contradiction.

It took me a long time to really figure out how to say what I am... being very very genderqueer.... I'm just Genderqueer from the opposite side of the gender spectrum from What I was born into.

I think I'm a little tomboyish too; I'm certainly not hyper-feminine.

A lot of transgirls I have met call themselves tomboys in boys' bodies. Whereas I'm nothing of the sort; except for some geeky interests, I'm about as un-tomboyish as they come. I mean, I'm not the stereotypical hyper-feminine type, but I'm more feminine in a lot of ways than a lot of genetic women I've known.

Why aren't there more of us who have a more traditional type of femininity?

I think there are not too many traditionally feminine type transgirls because, growing up as male, we may be conditioned to masculine behaviors despite our identity. In person, I can be a bit distant emotionally, and I don't express a whole lot of emotion unless I'm with friends (even then it is limited). But having been bullied throughout middle school, I became conditioned to put up that icy emotional wall (albeit, to protect myself rather than conforming) that is more commonly seen in males than females. I think it can be a bit hard to uncondition yourself (I've been trying to break that emotional wall as much as possible in the past four years). Just my thoughts.

And just wondering... Should we all, like, be friends?

Well... yeah....

I agree with the Wall thing.

However, I really just have to bring it up.

I've been thinking about this all day.

What IS Feminine?

I mean... It seems like everything other then Kids, and Family affairs, is masculine work?

[Oceania]

Well... yeah....

I agree with the Wall thing.

However, I really just have to bring it up.

I've been thinking about this all day.

What IS Feminine?

I mean... It seems like everything other then Kids, and Family affairs, is masculine work?

Well, in society, feminine would describe the behaviors stereotypically associated with females. But as I'm sure you already knew that and want a deeper answer... I'm not too sure. Maybe it is the things that only females can do, such as give birth. Feminine is a subjective adjective, there isn't really any real objective answer to what it truly is.

And I guess that I'll add you as my friend now?

[Typical Power]

Well... yeah....

I agree with the Wall thing.

However, I really just have to bring it up.

I've been thinking about this all day.

What IS Feminine?

I mean... It seems like everything other then Kids, and Family affairs, is masculine work?

Well, in society, feminine would describe the behaviors stereotypically associated with females. But as I'm sure you already knew that and want a deeper answer... I'm not too sure. Maybe it is the things that only females can do, such as give birth. Feminine is a subjective adjective, there isn't really any real objective answer to what it truly is.

And I guess that I'll add you as my friend now?

Even in the shallowest sense, it seems like nothing is really "femenine" anymore.

[Lady Longshadow]

On not being able to get a date:

While I will admit that it's hard to find a good relationship as a trans girl it hasn't been hard to find people who find me attractive. In fact, there is no need to find them, they find me, and some of them are incredibly disrespectful. Since transitioning I've been sexually assaulted in public, followed by pimps, and absolutely obsessed over by both people who are and aren't aware of my trans status. I don't mean to give you the impression that everyone that hits on me is a creep, because that isn't true, but upon transitioning I've learned what it is to be both objectified as a woman and fetishised as a transsexual.

It is still true that being trans can limit your dating pool. I think this is more the case for those who don't pass as well, but it kind of holds true for all of us. Some guys just can't deal with the idea that despite your appearance being with you might make them gay. I met this one really nice guy at a bus stop once who asked me out on a date, and at the time I was pre-op, so I had to make the choice of telling him about myself or shooting him down. I figured he didn't seem like the type to freak out, so I told him, and at first he didn't believe me. He struggled with the concept for a while, but asked me out on a date anyway, all the while insisting he wasn't gay. Then he called me up the next day and canceled, which I understood perfectly, but later that week he called me a second time to make a new date, but being very insistant that he just wanted to be friends, because he like me, but he didn't "swing that way". So we went out to a food festival, and we had a great time, and he kept putting his arm around me and complementing me on my looks before withdrawing and saying to himself "sorry, I keep forgetting. I'm not gay." So yeah, sweet guy, but I had enough issues with my own sexuality already. I didn't need to deal with his too. I also found out he was literally twice my age, which was surprising.

On femininity:

I'm not quite sure how one would define this either. It's a rather fuzzy concept, but it's more or less something that society decides on. I believe that the social constructs of masculinity and femininity are really exaggerations of the naturally occurring differences between men and women as groups. So, for example, while some women are stronger than most men, men are on average stronger than women on average, therefore physical strength is seen as a masculine trait. Though there is great overlap in the texture of men and women's skin, women generally have softer skin, therefore soft skin, and softness in general, are considered feminine. Cultures can take these concepts to extremes, like in China where binding womens feet was once common practice, because women generally have smaller feet, so the smaller the foot, the more feminine, the more desirable in women.

But anyway. I've often considered myself something of a tom boy because I grew up watching adventure shows and playing war games. My interests as an adult are mostly fantasy/sci-fi, graphic novels, video games, ext. I could care less about celebrity gossip, reality TV or what/who is in this season. But when I self identify as a tom boy people actually laugh at me, because they see me as very girly, regardless of my interests. And then who was it who introduced me to science fiction and fantasy in the first place but my own mother, who often tells me I'm more feminine than she is. So sure, part of the reason there are so few "traditionally feminine" trans women may be that we grew up being socialized male and therefore addopted those interests, but also that so many women in general don't fit the stereotype.

Let it also be noted that I have met some trans girls who fit the feminine stereotype very closely. The thing is, these girls often want very little to do with the trans community, transition fairly young, and just blend right into society. Either that or they form there own circles with women more like themselves.

[GirlInside]

On not being able to get a date:

While I will admit that it's hard to find a good relationship as a trans girl it hasn't been hard to find people who find me attractive. In fact, there is no need to find them, they find me, and some of them are incredibly disrespectful. Since transitioning I've been sexually assaulted in public, followed by pimps, and absolutely obsessed over by both people who are and aren't aware of my trans status. I don't mean to give you the impression that everyone that hits on me is a creep, because that isn't true, but upon transitioning I've learned what it is to be both objectified as a woman and fetishised as a transsexual.

It is still true that being trans can limit your dating pool. I think this is more the case for those who don't pass as well, but it kind of holds true for all of us. Some guys just can't deal with the idea that despite your appearance being with you might make them gay. I met this one really nice guy at a bus stop once who asked me out on a date, and at the time I was pre-op, so I had to make the choice of telling him about myself or shooting him down. I figured he didn't seem like the type to freak out, so I told him, and at first he didn't believe me. He struggled with the concept for a while, but asked me out on a date anyway, all the while insisting he wasn't gay. Then he called me up the next day and canceled, which I understood perfectly, but later that week he called me a second time to make a new date, but being very insistant that he just wanted to be friends, because he like me, but he didn't "swing that way". So we went out to a food festival, and we had a great time, and he kept putting his arm around me and complementing me on my looks before withdrawing and saying to himself "sorry, I keep forgetting. I'm not gay." So yeah, sweet guy, but I had enough issues with my own sexuality already. I didn't need to deal with his too. I also found out he was literally twice my age, which was surprising.

I know how that is. I've had some lesbians fall in love with me in spite of my physical appearance, but, to make a long story short, I learned the hard way that lesbians only date non-TG women, because the Lesbian Community forbids anything else. That culture is fairly strict--long before I was born, my mom had lesbian friends who objected to her having a male dog. (Even the KKK doesn't care if a white person has a black dog! :lol: ) It would not surprise me to learn that straight men have a similar rule against dating transwomen.

On femininity:

I'm not quite sure how one would define this either. It's a rather fuzzy concept, but it's more or less something that society decides on. I believe that the social constructs of masculinity and femininity are really exaggerations of the naturally occurring differences between men and women as groups. So, for example, while some women are stronger than most men, men are on average stronger than women on average, therefore physical strength is seen as a masculine trait. Though there is great overlap in the texture of men and women's skin, women generally have softer skin, therefore soft skin, and softness in general, are considered feminine. Cultures can take these concepts to extremes, like in China where binding womens feet was once common practice, because women generally have smaller feet, so the smaller the foot, the more feminine, the more desirable in women.

Sounds good. But I think there's more than that. There's believing in female culture and its values, whatever those values happen to be in the larger culture in which a woman lives. Then there are the naturally occurring differences; despite what feminists say, some things are masculine and feminine anywhere you go. For example, motherhood is a huge part of any country's female culture (even if a woman doesn't have kids, she can still be motherly).

But anyway. I've often considered myself something of a tom boy because I grew up watching adventure shows and playing war games. My interests as an adult are mostly fantasy/sci-fi, graphic novels, video games, ext. I could care less about celebrity gossip, reality TV or what/who is in this season. But when I self identify as a tom boy people actually laugh at me, because they see me as very girly, regardless of my interests.

I don't blame them. There's more to being a tomboy than having a few masculine interests. As I see it, you can't be a tomboy unless you have a masculine personality (think of any masculine woman you know). I knew a little girl who was extremely feminine compared to other girls her age. And yet, her favorite video game was The Legend of Zelda. But a few masculine interests do not a tomboy make.

And then who was it who introduced me to science fiction and fantasy in the first place but my own mother, who often tells me I'm more feminine than she is.

Same here! :)

Let it also be noted that I have met some trans girls who fit the feminine stereotype very closely. The thing is, these girls often want very little to do with the trans community, transition fairly young, and just blend right into society. Either that or they form there own circles with women more like themselves.

Interesting thought. This makes more sense than any answer I've seen.

Using myself as an example, I notice I'm a lot more feminine than a lot of the transwomen I've met. The group where I feel the most at home, where I am the most accepted as one of them, is heterosexual/asexual (preferably asexual, but asexuals are rare) biological women of the mainstream American culture. This is in spite of the fact that I am neither attracted to men nor biologically female. Therefore the trans community (which I've tried) is too foreign for me, and so I don't go to such things. I guess anyone else like me is either making friends with straight non-TG women or (if their social skills are as bad as mine) staying at home with family.