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Asexual Flag Voting (First Round)


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Asexual Flag Voting - Please Choose 3 from Each Category  

  1. 1. "Simple" Flags Part One (Horizontal & Triangle)

    • A
      90
    • B
      45
    • C
      21
    • D
      20
    • E
      19
    • F
      30
    • G
      31
    • H
      31
    • I
      24
    • J
      15
    • K
      8
    • L
      17
    • M
      5
    • N
      71
    • O
      70
    • P
      15
    • Q
      29
    • I would prefer not to have a flag.
      47
  2. 2. "Simple" Flags Part Two (Vertical & Diagonal)

    • A
      60
    • B
      25
    • C
      22
    • D
      6
    • E
      24
    • F
      60
    • G
      55
    • H
      25
    • I
      31
    • J
      19
    • K
      20
    • L
      19
    • N
      35
    • O
      20
    • P
      22
    • Q
      50
    • I would prefer not to have a flag.
      59
  3. 3. "Symbol" Flags

    • A
      44
    • B
      9
    • C
      19
    • D
      4
    • E
      10
    • F
      13
    • G
      8
    • H
      6
    • I
      98
    • J
      34
    • K
      7
    • L
      23
    • M
      47
    • N
      63
    • O
      45
    • P
      20
    • Q
      14
    • I would prefer not to have a flag.
      67
  4. 4. Do you want a flag to represent Asexuality?

    • Yes
      216
    • No
      51


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Well, for what it's worth, Acer, I thought you summed up both positions admirably. Or mine, anyway.

Maybe it's just me, but I do stick around here primarily for the political side of things--because let's face it, all the satellite communities are either far more quiet or even less political than AVEN, but I still am a little confused about the fear of asexuality becoming a quasi-political social movement, not just a single community dedicated to small goals. It's not just this thread that I've seen such sentiment; I've seen people even be dismissive of coming out, which I view as a political act in the sense that the personal is political. (Coming out is the best way to spread visibility from a knowledge standpoint, hands down. It is the best way to make people realize that asexual people exist and are not going away. 1% seems like such a small figure, and we don't even know if it's accurate, but it's a lot in terms of who you know--I certainly have known more than a hundred people over the course of my life, which implies something statistically. Moreover, coming out personalizes asexuality and makes it harder to dismiss than hearing about it on the Web does.) I think there's a real feeling among some people here that asexuality is a very private thing, something that can be acknowledged once but otherwise ignored unless a romantic partner comes up. In particular, I feel often that people don't want to consider asexuality a real orientation in its own right, with all the social force that implies; there is a real feeling that we don't have the same "legitimacy" as a social movement as homosexual and bisexual people do, and that we don't have a social burden to bear from being asexuals. And I sympathize with not wanting to consider that social issue, and wanting to live in the closet so you don't have to deal with being so far off the beaten track, but asexuality as a movement and a social movement is here to stay and only getting bigger.

We're picking up steam as a movement, here. I remember two, three years ago, I had never seen asexuality mentioned outside of AVEN. There was the LJ comm, but only that. Now asexuality is picking up visibility. Of the particular subcultures I frequent, media fandom in particular is growingly asexual-friendly, and I have seen asexuality mentioned in feminist and sex-positive blogs. There are actual asexual characters written by people with some familiarity with the asexual movement now; that started with Gerald Tipett in 2008. That's almost two years now. We just started branching into other forms of media with the podcasts (started in the last year) and Hot Pieces of Ace, which is still very new. Moreover, the number of satellite communities have increased; we now have an actual asexual blogosphere with several regularly-updated asexual blogs as well as asexual fandom communities and Apositive, and that's only what I personally am aware of. Off the Net, we have pride marches and booths and efforts to work with the LGBT community. All that's the results of only a couple of years' work--I'm not even addressing the media appearances asexual members of the community have made in the past, or the research projects going on underway.

We're getting to be a big enough force to start mattering outside of AVEN, is what I am saying. AVEN might not be the whole asexual community any more, but we're still the nucleus and by far the biggest place to discuss asexuality anywhere. This is where a lot of the discussion happens, is what I'm saying. And as a community, coordination is going to be our next step in terms of really beginning to enter the mainstream. I project that in five, ten years, asexuality is going to be much more well-known in a mainstream sense, particularly among under-30 demographics who have grown up with the Internet. Symbols that work are probably a good idea in order to maintain group cohesion. In fact, I think asexual symbols in general are probably important to hammer out now, while we still have as much of a centerforum for asexuality discussion as we do.

I'm still not quite certain that a flag is necessary. But sure, I think the colors are. I think it's pretty interesting, also, that the only color difference in any of the flags I could find was how many shades of grey the composers put on. The four basic colors seem to be, among people who have contributed to the friendship bracelet/flag/plaid discussion in the last week or so, purple, grey, white, and black. These colors are not meaningless; I detailed their actual significance earlier in the thread, and as Acer notes purple in particular is becoming a growing asexuality color in meatspace endeavors as well as on AVEN.

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I just wanted to write that we don't need a flag to create any kind of unity or community here. These things already exist at AVEN. This emblem will serve us by creating visibility. I do not think it will create conflict either within or between our community and others.

Those who do not want a flag are probably those who take flags the most seriously here. I appreciate that.

But I think the flag and the proposed designs are aesthetically beautiful statements, even if I have to get within 3 inches of them to see them.

I have learned not to take flags seriously. I don't say the pledge of allegiance any more. I know what the U.S. flag stands for, I have no need to be reminded.

But I do appreciate them as messages, and some are more intense than others.

The flag is not the command of our community, it is an expression of our community.

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I haven't read Acer's or Sciatrix's posts yet. I have a lot to say, though. So here it is.

To be honest, from what I've read of Pride marches, particularly in the UK, over the last couple of years, placards with slogans like 'flaming asexual' and 'asexuals don't give a ****', with the odd AVEN triangle thrown in, appear to be a much more successful way of generating visibility.

This I just don't get. How would you know they're "more successful" if you don't even have a flag in the first place?

I agree with Ally when she says that we are much more than a symbol. Every single one of us is unique, different, and has so much to offer to the world. That isn't the point. This flag isn't going to replace your identity, or suddenly erase everything you've worked for as an asexual. It's a flag. It's going to make people visually SEE what they have been reading about all along. It's going to make people proud to wave a banner in a pride parade, and will provide a great amount of fodder for future merchandise. What could possibly be wrong with this? The fact that the design may not suit your taste? Maybe it's too simple, or too complex, or maybe you just plain don't like the colors?

Can you please see the bigger picture?

I'm not asking to rename the asexual orientation, here. All I propose is the creation of a flag to represent the asexual community. This flag could become second nature to you all, and I bet if you had one now you wouldn't think twice about it during the course of a day. Do you think about your nation's flag daily? No. It's used for special occasions, like Independence Day, and when your team is competing in the World Cup, or the Olympics. It's a universal, recognizable symbol that lets people know what you're a part of. Is there something that exists for asexuals today that serves that purpose? No, there is not. I think it's about damn time, because 10 years after AVEN is founded, there isn't one in sight. Gays, lesbians, and bisexuals all have flags to express their sexual orientations. Trans people also have a flag. The logic behind them seems obvious - if flags are a bad idea, why do so many groups utilize them?

If you guys are expecting this to fall in your laps, fine. But I promise you that this is not something that's just going to show up. A flag requires work and effort on the part of the community. I'm trying my best to help out and offer ideas - if you don't think I'm doing a good job, that's fine. Tell me. I'll step down and someone else can take over. But if you expect to pull one of these out of your ass and have a design be absolutely perfect, completely representative of everyone with some perfect image on it - okay. Wait for that. I'll be doing something a little more productive.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this design will not fit you all perfectly. It is not a custom-fit shoe for your personal use, pre-made and ready to go. This flag is going to take a lot of work, a lot of willpower, and a lot of love. The flag that this community eventually picks, IF EVER, will come to fit you as a community rather than the other way around. Nobody will ever wholeheartedly agree on anything. A little bit of an open mind goes a long way, and I feel like a lot of you are coming at this with an iron-clad shield over yours.

It saddens me that this project is driving everyone apart. I hope that somehow we can agree on a point soon.

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The Evil Cashew

To be honest I am with Ally on this one. For the record. We DONT need one.

Also.. I don't like any of the flags up there. Sorry, I mean all the ideas are nice... and great job... but I wouldn't any of them representing asexuality.

Sorry

Cashew

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I didn't vote because frankly, none of them appeal to me. All are very nice designs, but for me, personally, they are too dark. before anyone gets upset, this is just MY reaction, nobody else.

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I'm still not crazy about the colors, but I'm going to toss in another variation. How's this?

avenflag.gif.jpg

p.s. I think I'm with the others who said no to any flag. I think we're better off with none than with one that a significant number don't want (what is a sgnificant number is debatable. More than one?)

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Guys, at least think of it this way, at least we can VOTE and chose our flag!!

I don't think the other LGBT etc flags the community chose it, I think it might of been one branch and everyone adopted it.

Plus, I can see it only helping in visibility, when people go to the wiki page on sexual orientation flags, they will see it and wonder what it is, or see us with it at pride marches.

And I would hope once a flag does get chosen, there will be an open thread on suggestions to improve/edit the flag (In terms of hue, etc) so it's not necessarily set in stone.

And the reason it's moving so fast, people seem to lose interest fast. Might as well try to chose a flag when we remember and can check up on it, the last thread just died and nothing got chosen.

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TheChronicWanderer

I kept expecting this to pop up in the census forum so I didn't see it here 'till just now.

I don't think a flag is absolutely vital for me to stay alive or anything. But I want one. I want a flag. I want people to see it. I want people to know about us.

However; I do find it strange that Standup is so set on having a flag, since he/she is not ace.

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Asterion Orestes

Since I'm a heraldry & vexillology buff, I naturally take to the subject. One suggestion: If we end up choosing a flag with diagonal stripes, I'd recommend a reversal of the design(s) shown, so that they originate in the canton corner.

Meanwhile I like daveb's idea. Three horizontal stripes, with a triangle occupying the hoist, might work regardless of how one distributes the four colors.

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To be honest, Standup is the person who took the idea and some people saying 'we should have a flag, y'know, or try and make one or talk about it or something' and turned it into a post that did stuff and from that, this. No idea what Standup's orientation is, but hell I'm very for this and I'm asexual.

Asterion, the idea about changing the direction of the diagonal line if that one is chosen is a good idea.

Daveb? That's an interesting design but, erm, the time to submit it was the previous post. Though I swear I keep thinking of the Czech flag when I see a design like that lol, even if the horizontal bars have an extra one amongst them here. It'd be unfair to put in a new flag after so many have already voted, there's some who've already voted that may want to vote for that one and now can't and it'd be at a distinct disadvantage.

As for how dark they are.... plenty of them aren't! And that's one of the reasons people were so insistent on having white and purple in there, to give light and colour. Exact shading of the chosen flag design can be debated at a later point mind you. Any time this has been tried before in the past (though I don't think it ever got this far cause people didn't agree on designs and interest faded out after a bit thus why this is going so fast, so people remember).... but designs in times gone buy have all had the same colours if slightly different shading. They seem to come up naturally for us.

Black for the asexuals, grey for the demisexuals and grey-aces, whites for the sexuals and purple for the community.

These colours seem to have, at some point, come out here there and everywhere as colours to represent us, they're just being used here in different set-ups.

So to those saying we're spontaneously pulling these colour out of our butts, we really aren't. But if we suddenly made them green and yellow and purple or something, which'd be an eye sore though brighter, that WOULD be pulling colours out of our butts.

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Pugnacioun mentioned this on hir blog, and I left a comment, but it occurred to me I should be saying this on AVEN instead, haha. :wacko: (It's not word for word.)

When that flag discussion first started, my first thought was, “Who could possibly have the power to standardize a flag for us?” The only answer I can think of are the organizers of asexual contingents in pride parades. That’s really the only place I ever expect to see the flag. In fact, I think these organizers could pretty much unilaterally choose whatever flag they want, or none at all, and the rest of AVEN can't do anything about it. We can only advise and complain.

The idea that a symbol trivializes a group… that seems pretty silly to me. Surely, you could bring up the same concern over the word “asexual”, which attempts to describe this diverse group of people with nothing but seven letters in the correct order. You know, I often feel marginalized by the whole rhetoric of "asexuals: because some people aren't interested in sex", because I am interested in sex? But I sure don't feel marginalized by a flag. A flag is a bunch of colors.

If there is any concern, I’d say it’s that perhaps we already have too many symbols. If we're too eager to create new symbols, then each symbol is going to have a rather short lifetime, too short to be very effective. But then a flag is a different kind of symbol from what we already have, so it’s worth making.

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Guest fridayoak

It's like in the Olympics when you see an obscure flag and then wonder which country it's from. You might ask your friend, and they don't know so you look it up online and find out it's St Kitts and Nevis. If you've never heard of that then you might read a bit about it, so the flag has increased visibilty and then education for St Kitts and Nevis, much like it will do for asexuality.

It seems like a lot of the old-school ad/mod types are against it, saying "we don't need it, we've survived long enough without one". Maybe they see it as a threat or are miffed that they didn't think of it first. Just cos a community has survived doesn't mean it can't grow and do things to improve visibility and education, you may as well say we done fine all this time without a youtube collab channel so why do we need one, but I didn't see that going to a vote for it's existence. Anything that sparks awareness and interest can only be a good thing for the community, just think about what AVEN actually stands for.

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difficult to say this without offending ..and normally i wouldn't give a toss but to those who I am about to mention i have the greatest respect

I feel we should have a flag..we need an instantainious brand recognised image ...outside of Aven

recent pride marches have shown what others think of our cardboard pieces and our white t shirts with felt tip scrawl and as such there is very little cohesion or recognition

imagine say on the pride march we had a recognised flag..similar to the rainbow of lgbt..in that where ever you are in the world if you saw it you would think...asexual

do i feel those on the marches with a piece of cardboard gave the best ability to publicise asexuality?..yes they where awesome in doing something i have to say i could never do

do i feel they would have been helped to raise our awareness through a recognised branding image...without a doubt

a flag does not represent me as a person..but what it does is the same as Aven wants it's members to do...raise awareness, identification,recognition and presence when we are in public

I'm in favour of a flag because brand image association and recognition works..

personally i voted for symbol flag o

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But even if we don't choose one flag, we can vary the emblems we use either from place to place or person to person.

We're not closing down debate or possibilities here, at least I hope we aren't.

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Currently 65 people have voted on the poll... any idea how many active members we have at the moment?

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SpirallingSnowy

I voted for the flags. not because i think we need one, but because i want us to have one. It should be made up of things that represent AVEN, and not a flag, for the sake of having one.

People will start to automatically assume asexuality/aven if this does become official and if it does become reproducable. And no, not everyone has to love it, but this is seriously becoming a rush job. I dont think that having this many options for the flag will help us unite as a community either. and speaking to a fellow avenite, we both agree we need to work out this in finer detail. perhaps defining a unanimous symbol that can be put on whatever flag you like. Well, she doesnt want a flag, but i do.

It seems relatively common that purple is associated with aven and asexuality. to me purple seems to be the combination of the binary gender construct ( red/blue) and the jury is out as to what combination, if any, for white/grey/black.

The symbols and flag of any sort of group/country/organisation/sexual orientation/etc should represent where they came from, or what they stand for, or a combination of both. The Australian flag is a combination of the flags of the UK and the southern cross - visible in our night sky - is shown beneath, and the 7 pointed star represents the states and territories. This flag was founded in a competition but took years to be come official - though apparently the southern cross has been used a symbol for years before the flag. Plenty of australians cant stand the flag and think it should be something that represents us now, not when we were colonised, or incorporates the Australian Aboriginies flag. They feel that the australian flag no longer represents us, but every sporting venue, ever tall building/bridge, every national, and international event, there is that flag representing my country, whether i like it or not.

I guess my point is, that any flag that represents AVEN needs to be built from our history, and be relevant to us now, and as we grow as a community. It also needs to be simple, practical, easily reporduced, but also distinct. It needs to easily identified as repesenting asexuality as it has been, and as it is and as it will be. If its going to represent us, it needs to be carefully thought out, discussed at length, and these things take years to come into fruition.

I do think a flag is eventually needed, and although i am one of the more old school mods, i feel that i would like to be represented by a flag. i just feel this is being rushed, and there are too many fingers in the pot. No one elses flag has ever had this much say in it.... Football teams might change the designs of their flags slightly, but the colours still remain the same. perhaps we can just decide on colours for the moment? if ppl want make a flag, then thats totally cool, but i think this needs to simmer for a bit, and follow its one path. If a flag is going to become a symbol for us, it is because it gets used as a symbol for us. And something that gets voted in with so little time to think about it, i feel doesnt represent us as well as it should.

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the trouble though snowy

is that aven has always been known for pussy farting about a lot and discussing things to the ength degree to the point where nothing ever gets done

look how many polls by members often get ignored or for the benefit of the mods are changed

you may feel it's rushed...but many who have the drive to push aven in peoples faces think we take too long already

to illustrate the ..may not represent me part...how many in here voted on the triangle or the colour purple?

sometimes we have to take the lead instead of being led

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The Evil Cashew

Pay I get your comment, however I look at it this way ( as I feel it is also being rushed)

The "pussy farting" around the polls on the BOARD affect the FORUM. And its a damn internet forum.. you don't like it.. go make your own or join another. Yes, i know, i know.. old line. But the point is.. its a FORUM.

This .. this is BIGGER. You guys want to create something that represent ALL asexuals. OUT THERE. This needs to be properly done and thought out. I also think that you should maybe advertise this on the OTHER language boards, even if its in english.. because the OTHER places need a say in this too. Why is it just THIS Aven gets to have a say? To submit? Shouldn't their input be taken into account too?

You want a flag, fine. Go make one, i could care less. However make sure its done right and don't just pick something necessarily because it got the most votes. Make sure its representative. Debate it, ask around, get opinions. And i mean.. elsewhere OFF of here.

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okay cash no probs

can you tell me the last time we had a 100% agreement in aven let alone else where

as to go else where..normally said by those uncomforteable with people who want change

disturbs the pipe and slippers brigade..and we can't have members having an idea or opinion can we..ooo no that might rock the boat

we have members who through actual involvement in real life marches see a real life benefit of a uniformally recognised symbol/flag

and not mass debaters on an internet forum

what is so bad about image brand recognition when it works in every single other way in the real world?

you don't answer cash the bit about how many voted on the aven triangle or the colour purple..could you?

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This isn't the final round, just the first. The ones who did better off on this go onto the next round where I think it's one vote per person. I'd assume from there we can take the winners (I propose top three?) and get people to discuss them, adapt them and perfect them and go from there into the final.

I don't think anybody would want this to be the final round lol - cause that wouldn't be so good. Don't think any of the flags, including the ones I submitted (I don't want to make it sound like I dislike them all except for mine muahahaha or anything, cause not true), are ready for that.

I don't know where people get the idea that these colours come from no where. They've been here for ages. The monochrome ones we know from the triangle, or I'd thought that'd be obvious and purple is our community, I don't think it has anything to do with gender binary. If you want to take some symbolism from it beyond the purple being something that's associated with our community a lot, especially now it's spilling out into the 'real world'... you can take from it that for a long time it was a rare colour, or a rare pigment in any case. Just like we're pretty rare with the estimated 1%. Don't think it has anything to do with gender unless you assign that meaning to it. My do elsewhere but I've not seen it mean that in the purple when used by AVENites.

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asexual cake

I've tried to spread the word wider than AVEN, by posting on the LiveJournal community for asexuality here, as well as opening up a topic on Apositive here, and I've contacted the fuckyeahaces tumblr with a question about it, as well as writing about it on my own blog here (which Siggy linked to above). You know, to spread the word.

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I've tried to spread the word wider than AVEN, by posting on the LiveJournal community for asexuality here, as well as opening up a topic on Apositive here, and I've contacted the fuckyeahaces tumblr with a question about it, as well as writing about it on my own blog here (which Siggy linked to above). You know, to spread the word.

*nods*

Should have thought of the LJ comm, usually forget it exists sadly. Shall be interesting to see their feedback if they have any, and their votes and so on.

ETA: There's a Dreamwidth asexual comm isn't there? Mind if I copy/paste your text and post it over there?

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I've tried to spread the word wider than AVEN, by posting on the LiveJournal community for asexuality here, as well as opening up a topic on Apositive here, and I've contacted the fuckyeahaces tumblr with a question about it, as well as writing about it on my own blog here (which Siggy linked to above). You know, to spread the word.

Funny, I was about to post on there today as a follow up to my last one! It's better you did though, you have more links and discussion.

Anyway I would like to point out two comments made there that points out a point I was trying to say on the last page, but was ignored:

Who decided what the American flag would look like? Or any other flag for that matter? We can't possibly get the input of every single asexual in the entire world. The best we can do is spread the word widely in every place where we know asexuals congregate. Which is what seems to be happening.

Who decided what the American flag would look like? Or any other flag for that matter?

This, exactly. I just had my little brother ask on Facebook why rainbows are associated with gay people, and went to see what wikipedia had to say about the origin of the rainbow flag. One guy got an idea and decided to make it, and over the years it changed slightly and finally caught on after a few changes.

I mean, I didn't have any say in the black ring or the triangle (and had never even heard of the black ring until a couple months ago - or is it that new?) and don't particularly feel left out.

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asexual cake

I've tried to spread the word wider than AVEN, by posting on the LiveJournal community for asexuality here, as well as opening up a topic on Apositive here, and I've contacted the fuckyeahaces tumblr with a question about it, as well as writing about it on my own blog here (which Siggy linked to above). You know, to spread the word.

*nods*

Should have thought of the LJ comm, usually forget it exists sadly. Shall be interesting to see their feedback if they have any, and their votes and so on.

ETA: There's a Dreamwidth asexual comm isn't there? Mind if I copy/paste your text and post it over there?

Not at all! I don't have a Dreamwidth account, so I couldn't post there.

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Guest Discobison

I say no to flags... As Ally says, AVEN and asexuality have managed just fine without one for a long time, why suddenly create something that might actually make people feel uncomfortable about expressing their sexuality... we already have the 'black ring thing' and the Ace (cards) symbols to identify as part of a group. If you look at the Pride flag, it has been altered to represent vaious subsections of the gay and lesbian community - Bear Pride is brown, just as one small example.

It feels to me like creating a flag would further divide us from both mainstream and LGBT communities, and increase the 'us vs them' kind of thinking that is already starting to become a part of the asexual world, and which I believe will eventually be seen as a negative trait.

Just my thoughts obviously, but MUCH more would need to be done to make this a widely known issue before any vote could be given legitimacy.

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This needs to be properly done and thought out. I also think that you should maybe advertise this on the OTHER language boards, even if its in english.. because the OTHER places need a say in this too. Why is it just THIS Aven gets to have a say? To submit? Shouldn't their input be taken into account too?

Okay, i've voted, but I agree with Cash, here. Of course we can't ask every single asexual out there what they think about having a flag (and what type they want) but we do at least have access to all of the other language forums that make up AVEN. If it's going to be a flag to represent asexuals worldwide then they do need a say, too. Adopting a flag is a big move.

I say we have two options:

1) We continue with this poll but add the same one to all of the other language forums (we'd have to get people to translate). At least this way the flag chosen would be more representative and this would be more fair.

2) We stop the poll and we allow more people (including those on the other forums) to submit flag designs and to discuss it all for a bit longer. I realise that the flag threads have been going for quite a while but I don't think a lot of people have been aware of this until now. This may be frustrating for those who have spent many months discussing it - but that's the reality of it.

There seems to be a lot of mixed feelings about this, so let's not rush into anything. I personally don't see a problem with a flag - and think it could be useful for visibility (remember this is a flag for asexuality, guys, not the AVEN community) - but I do feel that we need everybody's say. If a decision is made then what is decided will be carried on into the far future so we need to make the best decision possible. Let's keep the discussion open.

(Thanks to those who have put time and effort into the designs by the way)

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I'm not going to vote in this, not because I 'don't want a flag' but because I'm not really fussed either way.

But really, why do we need a flag when we already have a symbol - the upsidedown triangledoober? I've seen that on pride banners, tshirts, plaquards, it was on the top of the forum untill it was updated, hell it's even a bloody emoticon - :aven:!!

Why do we need a flag when we already have a symbol with which Ases identify? If people want a flag so bad why not stick the triangledoober on a white/purple/whatever background and have that as a flag.

None of those flags speak to me, I can't relate to any of them, the triangle on the other hand I can.

:aven:

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Thinking of another question- if we say about giving the other branches of AVEN this poll (and tbh I forgot about them originally) it occurred to me- do they even identify with the colour scheme? Are their boards purple? Do they see any significance in purple? Do they have their own colour schemes?

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Thinking of another question- if we say about giving the other branches of AVEN this poll (and tbh I forgot about them originally) it occurred to me- do they even identify with the colour scheme? Are their boards purple? Do they see any significance in purple? Do they have their own colour schemes?

Some of the language forums don't appear to recognise the purple thing, no. I spend some time on the french forums which does.

The only thing that appears universal (AVEN-wise) is the triangle. But then we'd have to decide if we wanted this triangle to symbolise asexuality in general or just AVEN. Actually... Where did the AVEN triangle even come from? :unsure:

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The AVEN triangle, as far as I'm aware, represents the Kinsey Scale (the line at the top) and the bottom is Group X, making a triangle. Who chose it? I assumed David Jay had a part in it, if not the sole part.

The thing that gets me about the triangle, as you said, is that it is the AVEN symbol. Adopting it for the whole of asexuality, even though the symbolism behind it is about asexuality in general, takes me in a similar way to we've suggested for the flag. It puts the AVEN stamp on all asexuals. "We made this symbol, now you lot are included in it". To me, it is a symbol of this community only- there are a few other asexual sites (although to be fair, they appear to be mainly made or overrun by AVENites) but the triangle is common to the Asexual Visibility and Education Network.

But the problem with that, as I said before, is that it is AVEN choosing. Every asexual symbol that we have was made and decided on by AVEN. So we end up choosing which symbols are AVEN and which are asexuality too... We can't really win on that point.

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