Jump to content

Asexuality and LGBT


michaeld

Recommended Posts

I've already linked this a couple of times on the chat - thanks btw to everyone for their feedback - but I thought I should make a thread here too.

http://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B-nCe0MgTUxZNDg5MTU2NzUtMzNmMy00ZTYwLTkyYTUtOTA4MjBjZDQ1NTll

(pdf file, 160KB - slightly updated, 7 June 2010)

This is a leaflet that was handed out in the recent National Union of Students LGBT conference in the UK. It addresses the commonly heard arguments for why we asexuals shouldn't be part of LGBT as well as many questions and misconceptions other LGBT folks often have, e.g. whether asexuality is an orientation or lack thereof, whether partners who are not having sex can even be considered to be in a romantic relationship, whether asexuals are against sex, etc etc etc. I hope to link it whenever the issue comes up on other forums and blogs.

Notes.

1) This is primarily directed at people in LGBT who don't think asexuality deserves to be included, rather than at asexuals who want nothing to do with LGBT. However a lot of the arguments are relevant to the latter too. It is not my intention to start another argument about the latter issue - suffice it to say that nowhere in the leaflet do we argue that every asexual has to consider themselves part of LGBT.

2) Much of, but not all of, the material in the first section can be found in emmarainbow's article here.

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Asexuality

3) Many of the arguments in sections 2-3, the case for inclusion, are not due to us. Basically I gathered the best arguments I could find on AVEN and other sources and added our own arguments to that.

Any comments and criticisms would be gratefully received.

Btw, in case people are wondering, I haven't forgotten about the Pride London march on July 3. I'm still waiting to hear back from the organizers. Once I get the go ahead I'll post again to the thread.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be nice if you could host it somewhere that doesn't require me to create an account with a website in order to access it.

You have to create an account? Are you sure? I can access it fine while not signed into Google.

Link to post
Share on other sites
trisarahtops

i had no problem opening it, and didn't have to sign in or anything..

**goes to read it.**

well written!

Link to post
Share on other sites
AFlyingPiglet

Thanks for this - this is great and could be useful at work where I'm part of the LGBT Network.

I've managed to open this with no problems and have saved a copy of it onto my computer, which I assume is OK.

Cheers :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent article! I think you've done a really good job on this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Despite thinking that it isn't that much to our advantage to be allied with LGBT groups, I think this is an excellent explanation of asexuality. Congratulations1

Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome article! :) :cake:

It was well-written and you really did a great job of explaining asexuality. Bravo!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great job! I really loved the casual tone. It made us seem like real people and not just a vague concept! :cake:

Link to post
Share on other sites

You've done a wonderful job on this!! :D

Very well-written - I'd love to disseminate this info to people at my university! ^_^

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone for the nice comments. They are greatly appreciated. As I said, much of the credit also goes to AVEN and the wider asexual community.

Thanks for this - this is great and could be useful at work where I'm part of the LGBT Network.

I've managed to open this with no problems and have saved a copy of it onto my computer, which I assume is OK.

Yes absolutely. Feel free to distribute too. (Of course I'd love to be informed if you do. :D )

Link to post
Share on other sites
Jin Kisaragi

Haven't read the article yet, but I'll admit I'd rather not be involved with that movement. Overemphasized sexuality makes me uncomfortable, but I do recognize myself as a deviant to the norm just as they are.

lol polyamorous asexuals.. that's crazy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We talked about this at the weekend, someone suggested that we align ourselves with the LGBT as we our a minority. I think in general i would prefer no association, asexuality will get lost in all the other labels and you will be seen not for your asexuality, but for being part of the gay scene. To be honest, some were ouright hostile to me mentioning my asexuality, like i was afflicted or not normal, some were very patronising, overall they were mystyfiedm so why push to be a part of that social group.

I have been on the gay scene now for 10 years and nearly everyone i met has nothing in common with asexuality. Quite the opposite, some are very open with their sex lives, with whole conversations revolving around it and the usual innuendo. I think we should separate ourselves and develop our own recognisable identity....Not be lost in the gay communities numerous diverse groups.

Going to the meets is a refuge from the sexually charged hurly burly of the gay scene, I like the no pressure, no sexual friction approach. where we are can discuss subjects freely in a friendly manner and get to know the real person, not the sexual object.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't read the article yet, but I'll admit I'd rather not be involved with that movement. Overemphasized sexuality makes me uncomfortable, but I do recognize myself as a deviant to the norm just as they are.

Yes and, as I alluded to in my original post, many other asexuals feel likewise. That's fine. No one's saying that every asexual has to be involved.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We talked about this at the weekend, someone suggested that we align ourselves with the LGBT as we our a minority.

The fact that we are both minorities is not, in itself, among the good reasons for aligning ourselves.

I think in general i would prefer no association, asexuality will get lost in all the other labels and you will be seen not for your asexuality, but for being part of the gay scene. To be honest, some were ouright hostile to me mentioning my asexuality, like i was afflicted or not normal, some were very patronising, overall they were mystyfiedm so why push to be a part of that social group.

Because a) not everyone in LGBT is like that - some are wonderfully supportive - and b) people can change, especially with accurate information at their disposal. That's part of the reason we made the leaflet.

I have been on the gay scene now for 10 years and nearly everyone i met has nothing in common with asexuality. Quite the opposite, some are very open with their sex lives, with whole conversations revolving around it and the usual innuendo. I think we should separate ourselves and develop our own recognisable identity....Not be lost in the gay communities numerous diverse groups.

If the only way we were visible was via LGBT then you might have a point. I agree totally with the idea we should develop our own recognisable identity and fully support the visibility efforts that have nothing to do with LGBT.

And btw it's not the "gay scene". Not everyone in LGBT is gay.

Going to the meets is a refuge from the sexually charged hurly burly of the gay scene, I like the no pressure, no sexual friction approach. where we are can discuss subjects freely in a friendly manner and get to know the real person, not the sexual object.

If you think I'm suggesting that people stop going to asexy meetups and only attend LGBT events from now on, you have the wrong end of the stick.

Did you read the leaflet btw? At least then you'd probably see where we pro-LGBT aces are coming from, even if you don't agree.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest member31022

lol polyamorous asexuals.. that's crazy.

Er...why? It's possible to by polyromantic?

We talked about this at the weekend, someone suggested that we align ourselves with the LGBT as we our a minority. I think in general i would prefer no association, asexuality will get lost in all the other labels and you will be seen not for your asexuality, but for being part of the gay scene. To be honest, some were ouright hostile to me mentioning my asexuality, like i was afflicted or not normal, some were very patronising, overall they were mystyfiedm so why push to be a part of that social group.

I have been on the gay scene now for 10 years and nearly everyone i met has nothing in common with asexuality. Quite the opposite, some are very open with their sex lives, with whole conversations revolving around it and the usual innuendo. I think we should separate ourselves and develop our own recognisable identity....Not be lost in the gay communities numerous diverse groups.

Going to the meets is a refuge from the sexually charged hurly burly of the gay scene, I like the no pressure, no sexual friction approach. where we are can discuss subjects freely in a friendly manner and get to know the real person, not the sexual object.

I've started looking into the LBGT group around at my uni, mainly because they're fun people and it's nice to have people who understand being different from the norm. That and round here they are very much not into the gender binary, which is wonderful and partially why I like them.

My straight friends have as many conversations about their sex lives, in lots of detail, and the 'gay community' is no different in that manner, so I'm not sure whether people here are presuming LGBT is even more sexually charged? Because I've never found that.

None of the LGBT events I've been too have made me feel like a sexual object, despite me not necessarily being 'out'.

I think we should align ourselves, especially since you can have a lot of asexuals who are also LGBT and having an added presence will make it easier for them to fit in, rather than just being one or two. I also think you can be a part of the LGBT spectrum without getting lost there - for instance, my friends who fit under T both get involved with LGBT groups, and separate visibility just for trans-people, and this seems like a decent approach - you have the partially set up awareness of LGBT to help, but you're not letting it just become another letter.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of my friends discovered their own asexuality through the LGBT community. I think aligning ourselves with them is, in general, a good idea. We might not be fighting for the all same things, but we all want acceptance and understanding, we all want people to stop seeing us as outsiders because we are different, right? Anyway, I just started working on a website for a LGBTQ education nonprofit, and it might be LGBTQA soon. (They've been needing a vowel)

On the other hand, that's a lot of letters. :huh:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of my friends discovered their own asexuality through the LGBT community. I think aligning ourselves with them is, in general, a good idea. We might not be fighting for the all same things, but we all want acceptance and understanding, we all want people to stop seeing us as outsiders because we are different, right? Anyway, I just started working on a website for a LGBTQ education nonprofit, and it might be LGBTQA soon. (They've been needing a vowel)

On the other hand, that's a lot of letters. :huh:

I just read the case for inclusion article, and now I feel redundant. :unsure:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think, overall an alliance would be fine, for those who disagree, just don't be apart of it. And if you have any talks with people let them know in no uncertain terms that you'd don't consider yourself apart of it. Personally I don't in anyway want associate with the LGBT community, but I would be upset about asexuality being a part of it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just read the case for inclusion article, and now I feel redundant. :unsure:

Don't be silly; other people's thoughts are very welcome especially when they are in agreement. :lol:

(In seriousness, critical comments are very welcome too.)

Excellent well written article. thank you for posting this!! :D xx

You're welcome! Glad you liked it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

(In seriousness, critical comments are very welcome too.)

I could lie and say it was terrible if you would like.

I enjoyed it too. When I went on the Pride last year with a (lesbian) friend I felt a bit weird because I didn't identify as either homosexual or homoromantic (at that time - which has changed) and I said that to the 'leader' of the group and he said something along the lines of that Pride isn't just to gay or trans people, it's for everybody just to go 'I'm a human, I'm allowed to walk down the streets and be how I'm born, whoo!'.

I have also stolen a copy too. Very in-depth.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoyed it too. When I went on the Pride last year with a (lesbian) friend I felt a bit weird because I didn't identify as either homosexual or homoromantic (at that time - which has changed) and I said that to the 'leader' of the group and he said something along the lines of that Pride isn't just to gay or trans people, it's for everybody just to go 'I'm a human, I'm allowed to walk down the streets and be how I'm born, whoo!'.

Cool!

That reminds me though - the definitions of homoromantic etc. we used in the leaflet were deliberate over-simplifications. I don't think homoromantic really means "wants a relationship with the same gender" any more than homosexual means "wants to have sex with the same gender". (Similar comment for the other romantic orientations too.) [EDIT: These have now all been changed.] Romantic orientations signify types of attraction (albeit non-sexual) and do not in themselves imply any desire to act on these attractions. But explaining all this seemed a bit over-complicated for people new to the concept. Maybe we'll find a way of rectifying this for the next edition.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And then you have people like me who identify as aromantic but wouldn't actually be averse to the idea of a romantic relationship. Man, human sexuality is complicated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is an excellent article. I was asked at a meetup recently why I thought there should be association between asexuals and LGBT organisations (I believe I was the only one in the group who did), and I'm afraid I didn't give a very good explanation, but this is wonderful. Wish I'd read it earlier! ;)

I do not identify as LGBT myself but it seems silly not to have some form of dialogue, most obviously for those asexuals who are intersex, or homo/bi/panromantic, and thus share many of the same experiences as LGBT members. In addition I'm sure there are many asexuals who identify as gay or bi for a time before discovering their asexuality. LGBT societies in universities are often a first port of call for people questioning or exploring their sexuality and it makes sense to reach out to these groups so that they have the information to pass on to such people (the success of the inclusion of asexuality in Warwick University's LGBT society is a classic example). On top of this LGBT groups have a wealth of experience in the area of visibility and I'm sure we can make use of a lot of their ideas in that respect. In turn I think a lot of interesting discussion on sexuality in general is happening in the asexual community, on sites such as AVEN and Apositive, and through researchers such as Lori Brotto, so I think we have things to offer too.

I'm not saying we should be brought into the whole LGBT(ETCETC) acronym, as clearly there are big differences between us, but there are also many similarities and, as you say at the end of your article, LGBT and asexuality groups in many ways are natural allies.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And then you have people like me who identify as aromantic but wouldn't actually be averse to the idea of a romantic relationship.

Interesting point. I might be the same way. I tend to call myself heteromantic since in principle I quite like the idea of a relationship and I relate much better emotionally to women than to men (can't imagine myself in a relationship with another guy). But liking, in an intellectual sense, the idea of a relationship is different to having the strong relationship drive that many others appear to have, including some asexuals.

This is an excellent article. I was asked at a meetup recently why I thought there should be association between asexuals and LGBT organisations (I believe I was the only one in the group who did), and I'm afraid I didn't give a very good explanation, but this is wonderful. Wish I'd read it earlier! ;)

I found this very informative

Glad you both liked it. :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...