81 replies to this topic

[Sootmouth]

Dan Savage has just posted a short article suggesting that asexuals come out to potential sexual partners by the third date.

http://slog.thestran...y-for-beginners

The horror begins when you scroll down and read the comments. I had imagined that folk who read Dan's stuff would be moderately more enlightened than your average Joe.

I was WRONG .

Edit: The topic of asexuality crops up again in three further posts by Dan.

Savage Love column September 10th 2009

Savage Love Letter Of The Day September 9th 2009

Savage Love Letter Of The Day September 11th 2009

Thanks to jmerry for bringing these to my attention.

[chrysalide]

It's more the comments than the actual post that're working on me. Asexuals choose to be this way because of rape or childhood issues, and the like.

[kathybee]

Hahaha! Sorry, other peoples ignorance always amuses me...........then it makes me mad!

[kathybee]

It's me again. Diclosure within a 3 date period. Does that mean most sexuals expect sex after the third date? I'm a bit out of touch with all this, haven't dated for 12 years. Don't think i'll date again if that's the case!

[Beardless]

They're waiting until the third date now?! I assumed that "adults" dating had sex ALL THE TIME.

[-V-]

The commenter doesn't expect sex after 3 dates. Their point was that there should be disclosure before things get serious.

[Eddie7]

Something that isn't exactly unreasonable really.

[Lt. Cmdr. Coleslaw]

Honestly, I feel you should disclose your sexuality to people you're interested in before you start dating... It's unfair and hurtful to both parties involved otherwise. By or before the third date is hardly unreasonable.

[prettyeyes]

Honestly, I feel you should disclose your sexuality to people you're interested in before you start dating... It's unfair and hurtful to both parties involved otherwise. By or before the third date is hardly unreasonable.

This is what I do. Better safe than sorry. I wouldn't want to start really liking someone only to find out they have no desire to be with an asexual.
Granted, I also haven't been able to get a date since I started doing this.

[Sally]

Dan Savage has just posted a short article suggesting that asexuals come out to potential sexual partners by the third date.

http://slog.thestran...y-for-beginners

The horror begins when you scroll down and read the comments. I had imagined that folk who read Dan's stuff would be moderately more enlightened than your average Joe.

I was WRONG .

Oh no. He's local to me and I read the Slog all the time. The comments are horrendous because The Stranger is known as the "sex" mag here.

[Lt. Cmdr. Coleslaw]

Honestly, I feel you should disclose your sexuality to people you're interested in before you start dating... It's unfair and hurtful to both parties involved otherwise. By or before the third date is hardly unreasonable.

This is what I do. Better safe than sorry. I wouldn't want to start really liking someone only to find out they have no desire to be with an asexual.
Granted, I also haven't been able to get a date since I started doing this.

I've been able to date people while being upfront about my sexuality. Don't worry about it too much; I've learned the hard way that people who find out you're asexual and consequently don't want a relationship with you are not the kinds of people you're going to have a good relationship with. They put a priority on sex that you don't. It sucks, sure, that it's just that one thing that holds people back, but at the same time, it'd suck more to get into the relationship and have it fall to pieces over that subject.

[lloorren]

Well that was degrading and offensive, but I left them a couple messages.

[michaeld]

Simply unbelievable! Thanks for drawing this to our attention Sootmouth. And thanks for your input in the comments section, and the same to other asexuals and ace-friendly people who have commented. I just left a couple of comments myself (#94 and #96). Let's see where this goes...

[EDIT: And now #99 too. Hmmm I wonder if that one will get me banned... oh well!]

[Sootmouth]

[EDIT: And now #99 too. Hmmm I wonder if that one will get me banned... oh well!]

Don't worry - I'm wishing someone would ban me so I didn't have to keep following this "debate"!

I'm not a great poster on columns like this although I'm shocked at the level of (and now I'm going to sound like a secondary school teacher) wilful ignorance shown on this particular one.

I can only conclude that because Dan Savage has a high profile his writings attract people who just want to shout their crazy ideas to a large audience.

[michaeld]

[EDIT: And now #99 too. Hmmm I wonder if that one will get me banned... oh well!]

Don't worry - I'm wishing someone would ban me so I didn't have to keep following this "debate"!

I'm not a great poster on columns like this although I'm shocked at the level of (and now I'm going to sound like a secondary school teacher) wilful ignorance shown on this particular one.

I can only conclude that because Dan Savage has a high profile his writings attract people who just want to shout their crazy ideas to a large audience.

Well I'm less bothered by this "Ian Smith" character than I was. I now think he's just a common-or-garden troll.

It's amazing how people now seem to think that the negative responses from asexuals are because of the remark that we should disclose our asexuality early in the dating process. Have these people actually READ the comments section!?!? aaaaaaaaaaahhh

[Pandoren]

I wouldn't go out on a random date with someone. I'd like to think I'd have a bit of a friendship going first or at least a civil acquaintence going where I might disclose my sexuality beforehand so they'd know. I want to get a measure of someone before I try dating.

[hyenaboy]

In my last relationship, I told the boyfriend that I was asexual on the third date. We broke up four weeks later, and I can't help but wonder if he just decided he couldn't handle it but didn't want to make it seem like he was breaking up just for sex. I'm definitely planning on telling anyone who has interest in me in the future that I'm asexual before any dates happen.

I hate the feeling I get from that post and the comments ... like asexuals purposely hide themselves because they have this crazy malicious intent to never let sexuals have sex ever again. Yes, that's exactly it. We're an evil people indeed!

[Marco - Proprietor of Doom]

The link isn't working for me

[Marco - Proprietor of Doom]

The link isn't working for me

Never mind, I think my laptop might be dyeing... Oh... that's much worse!

[lloorren]

Man, I keep going back to this post. I know that Ian Smith is a troll, but how can someone be so heartless in a thread about something which few can find information on?

I guess part of it is that I'm already an angry feminist and to be called a "frigid babe" is like a double insult

[michaeld]

Man, I keep going back to this post. I know that Ian Smith is a troll, but how can someone be so heartless in a thread about something which few can find information on?

I guess part of it is that I'm already an angry feminist and to be called a "frigid babe" is like a double insult

I think it's best to ignore him. He probably gets satisfaction every time he generates an angry response. It's much funnier watching him flap around when no-one has responded to him for a while, trying desperately to get people worked up. I've occasionally seen attention-starved trolls degenerate into "wwhhhyy won't somebody be insulted?? pleezzze", which is always highly amusing.

[Siggy]

I think Dan's rule of full disclosure of asexuality by the third date is very fair. Generous, even. I'd probably out myself before then. Actually, I don't think I would even date someone in the first place if I perceived that they were on the hypersexual end of things.

But is it just me, or is he antagonizing asexuals through innuendo? He seems to think he will be accused of asexophobia for making a very fair suggestion. As a result, readers are going to think that we're trying to lead sexuals on, and further, that we're using the accusation of "asexophobia" to defend our dishonest practices. And so, without saying anything completely wrong, Dan Savage is subtly turning his readers against us. That's partly why the comments are so bad. (And it doesn't help that Dan's readers are mostly on the hypersexual end of things.)

Is it just me, or is this sort of a vicious cycle? Dan says something very fair, but implies that asexuals are going to reject it. Then AVEN spots it, spots Dan's unfriendly commenters, and acts rather indignant about it. As a result, it looks like we're rejecting a very fair suggestion. Dan sees this, and does the same thing next time.

[michaeld]

But is it just me, or is he antagonizing asexuals through innuendo? He seems to think he will be accused of asexophobia for making a very fair suggestion. As a result, readers are going to think that we're trying to lead sexuals on, and further, that we're using the accusation of "asexophobia" to defend our dishonest practices.

It certainly seems to have had that effect whether intended or not.

Is it just me, or is this sort of a vicious cycle? Dan says something very fair, but implies that asexuals are going to reject it. Then AVEN spots it, spots Dan's unfriendly commenters, and acts rather indignant about it. As a result, it looks like we're rejecting a very fair suggestion. Dan sees this, and does the same thing next time.

Yes. But I don't think any AVENites have posted anything all that indignant, except to the obvious trolls, and by now it must be clear as daylight to anyone who's actually bothered reading the comments that we are not objecting to the disclosure thing. If anyone continues to think we are, there's not much we can do about it.

[ThePieMaker]

I think it's fair. It's actually a rule I set for myself awhile ago. Although, I've only ever been on one date... and I went a little early and disclosed the whole asexual business after the first and only date.

[Sally]

It's a good rule, or maybe the first date would be better. Those of us who had no idea what we were and had uncomfortable sexual relationships with people for years and THEN had to tell them when we learned of asexuality -- believe me, you don't want to go there. They never let up with the betrayal stuff. At least only a couple of dates in, they're not going to feel betrayed.

[kt8]

Simply unbelievable! Thanks for drawing this to our attention Sootmouth. And thanks for your input in the comments section, and the same to other asexuals and ace-friendly people who have commented. I just left a couple of comments myself (#94 and #96). Let's see where this goes...

[EDIT: And now #99 too. Hmmm I wonder if that one will get me banned... oh well!]

My reaction to the comments: JEEZ!

Comment #94 was priceless. Excellent reasoning!! I approve of your comments, sir. They are some of the most reasonable on the board.

EDIT: I've added my own reponse, #149. Hopefully that'll help cool things down a bit.

[Sootmouth]

...in a thread about something which few can find information on?

This is what I find so hard to believe - how can folk responding to the thread be so ill informed when the link to AVEN is at the top of the article? Even when I posted a direct link to the FAQs a couple of people still posted comments that showed they didn't have a basic understanding of asexuality.

I've come to the conclusion that many posters on the column are there for entertainment purposes rather than real discussion. You can take a horse to water...

[#Bear]

In my last relationship, I told the boyfriend that I was asexual on the third date. We broke up four weeks later, and I can't help but wonder if he just decided he couldn't handle it but didn't want to make it seem like he was breaking up just for sex. I'm definitely planning on telling anyone who has interest in me in the future that I'm asexual before any dates happen.

I hate the feeling I get from that post and the comments ... like asexuals purposely hide themselves because they have this crazy malicious intent to never let sexuals have sex ever again. Yes, that's exactly it. We're an evil people indeed!

Crazy malicious intent indeed! We're going to even out the population and prevent further STDs by not going around having sex and/or getting preggers in the process. Oh my! How deliciously wicked of us. *scoffs*

[Raccoons & Arca N.H.]

Those comments are just plain ignorant, and most are offensive

''Pretty soon they'll be wanting their own parades''

No comment

''Those Asexuals can go NOT f*ck themselves''

Wait, someone there actually gets it?

*Sighs* Looks like 'Norms' will attack anything that isn't a Hetero, Western World boy

[mindlife]

It's more the comments than the actual post that're working on me. Asexuals choose to be this way because of rape or childhood issues, and the like.

If you don't believe that asexuality is an orientation, then this sort of reasoning is valid.
But here, we have asserted that it is an orientation.
If such be the case, then life experience may temper one's self concept, but it cannot affect or create sexual orientation.
In other words, experience is irrelevant in the issue of asexuality.
Particularly if asexuality is your perspective in the here and now.