Marriage w/ Asexual wife about to end

[sexualwithasexual]

It's interesting that your partner fears AVEN, is she still worried that looking on it will make you want to leave her? I think you mentioned that was a concern of hers.

Yeah, I think so. We haven't been talking about breaking up, but seeing our sexual differences as this new thing: asexuality, is new and so yeah, if she's been kind of hoping that we just had different sex drives, this is new to her too, and I think she may be afraid it's too much for me. I think she thinks I must stick around in hopes of sex. But obviously, I've stuck around this long for so many other reasons! But I do think she knows from me that I have had hopes that we would someday have sex again. I think we are sorting it out. It's tough, cuz I'd like to talk about it more with her, but she doesn't really want to. I'm taking it slow. It's a paradigm shift for me too right now.

It's great to hear about your aromantic relationship. I'm thinking a bunch about what romantic means these days! We're both pretty unromantic. I've always seen that as coming from our feminist views. But now I'm not so sure. It all just makes me feel so vulnerable emotionally. Not sure why. I'm pretty strong emotionally, but I do value our emotional intimacy and I hope that she feels emotionally close too. I don't think I'm making sense. I don't even get it yet. Working on it..... I think I'm confusing being romantically attached with being close emotionally, and it's probably not the same thing. But something in me thinks it is, even if intellectually I know better.

[n44ww]

That's odd. I wrote an entire post asking sexuals if a guy would be happy with just receiving oral and not penetrative sex (because oral sex can be fun, penetration hurts). The concensus was that very few guys would be satisfied with that arrangement. So...even if there is some sex and romantic feelings, most would not be satisfied. Not sure how that is any different than a sexual that doesn't want to perform kinky sex.

When I was thinking "plain", I was thinking missionary position - period. There are people who would consider oral sex too kinky!

[AVENCakes]

Yeah, I think so. We haven't been talking about breaking up, but seeing our sexual differences as this new thing: asexuality, is new and so yeah, if she's been kind of hoping that we just had different sex drives, this is new to her too, and I think she may be afraid it's too much for me. I think she thinks I must stick around in hopes of sex. But obviously, I've stuck around this long for so many other reasons! But I do think she knows from me that I have had hopes that we would someday have sex again. I think we are sorting it out. It's tough, cuz I'd like to talk about it more with her, but she doesn't really want to. I'm taking it slow. It's a paradigm shift for me too right now.

I can understand that. If she did think she just had a lower sex drive than oyu, finding out she's asexual would be a bit of a curve ball. Combine it with the fear that you'll leave her over it, she probably isn't too keen about anything to do with asexuals right now. I think if I found out about it while in a long term relationshpi I'd have had very different feelings about being asexual than I did.

It is difficult, but it seems like you're doing fairly well with it, I hope she is, too. You seem really interested in understanding her point of view and I'm sure that helps.

It's great to hear about your aromantic relationship. I'm thinking a bunch about what romantic means these days! We're both pretty unromantic. I've always seen that as coming from our feminist views. But now I'm not so sure. It all just makes me feel so vulnerable emotionally. Not sure why. I'm pretty strong emotionally, but I do value our emotional intimacy and I hope that she feels emotionally close too. I don't think I'm making sense. I don't even get it yet. Working on it..... I think I'm confusing being romantically attached with being close emotionally, and it's probably not the same thing. But something in me thinks it is, even if intellectually I know better.

Romantic attraction has got to be the vaguest one. A good number of asexuals around here have no idea if they're romantic or aromantic and spend years wondering what they are, some just decide to ignore the terms all together. It's really weird trying to understand or explain the difference between a long term deep friendship and a long term romantic relationship. I really couldn't explain it, but my partner and I are best friends, but we're also romantic partners even though we don't do the flowers/chocolates/mushy things you think of when you hear "romantic".

I think half the confusion is that there's romantic (orientation/kind of love) and romantic (flowers/chocolates/valentine's day) and it's almost impossible not to confuse the two, so if you aren't interested in the flowers/chocolates romantic it's pretty easy to wonder how good you'd be at the the kind of love/orientation romantic.

[Galen]

That's odd. I wrote an entire post asking sexuals if a guy would be happy with just receiving oral and not penetrative sex (because oral sex can be fun, penetration hurts). The concensus was that very few guys would be satisfied with that arrangement. So...even if there is some sex and romantic feelings, most would not be satisfied. Not sure how that is any different than a sexual that doesn't want to perform kinky sex.

Hmm, I can't see being satisfied with it either, I don't believe there would be the bonding and sharing like we experience in our occasional normal sex. Though trying it once would be nice....

While kinky sex describes a wide spectrum to all I guess. Kinky I guess would be anything not normal but what is normal? Kinky for me would would mean something I believe is less frequent (normal) by my perception. Kinky for others I believe means disgusting.

When I was thinking "plain", I was thinking missionary position - period. There are people who would consider oral sex too kinky!

Well, "plain" to me would be always the same or the asexual female laying on top controlling the act. Oral sex, "There are people who would consider oral sex too kinky!" I know :(.

I've been told that her wearing a skirt or dress is too kinky. :(

Sorry for continually keeping this thread off the original posters situation though it all may apply indirectly. :(

[Ender]

This is the point where I just want to throw my hands up in the air and scream. It just seems like doing anything with a sexual is just a slippery slope. You're damned if you do, damned it you don't. And you're damned if you don't do it A LOT.

Oh, kissing is nice.

Well, let's make out. I haven't been really kissed unless our tongues are in each other's throat.

I like to cuddle.

Well, let's cuddle naked. I need to feel skin against skin or I don't feel cared about.

How about a backrub.

How about you rub something else.

Oh, ok, I don't mind touching your happy place.

Touch it. Touch it now. Wait, don't just touch it...get me off.

Fine.

Lick it now.

Fine, as long as it's not all the time.

No, do once a week. Let's have intercourse too...because I don't feel satisfied with your meager sexual offerings.

Fine.

No, it's not enoguh...I need to get laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaid over and over again.

Fine.^

But I want you to enjoy it!^

*bangs head against wall*

Yes, I'm being half-sarcastic, but only half.

Don't mind me...I'm in a mood. I think reading this forum is turning me aromantic. Maybe I should stop.

ETA: ^

[Ender]

Someone gave me a heads up that some sexuals might construe my above post as offensive. It is not intended to be as such. If you're offended, please post. I'll take it down. It's not worth it. I'm only trying to illustrate the asexual position, and since I consider myself quite a liberal asexual in what I'll do/enjoy, I can understand why an asexual spouse that is much less liberal might just turn completely off when you just want a hug, even if they might actually like them. I mean, like I said, just reading this forum is making me... <_< Maybe we just DON'T get to have relationships. That's what I'm learning.

I've been reading/posting in this forum 75% to be helpful and 25% to learn. I don't want to end up with a warning or something just because I was trying to be helpful.

[AVENCakes]

That last one might be better with "No, it's not enough... I need you to want it, too", because that's pretty much the brick wall most asexuals hit. Even if they're willing to have sex 4 times a day, if they aren't "into it" then it's still not satisfying.

Although if the sexual needs it every day and the asexual can't offer more than once or twice a week, that would be pretty aggravating as well.

<_< Maybe we just DON'T get to have relationships. That's what I'm learning.

I don't know you well enough to offer snuggles, but I'm tempted.

[the_unstable]

Personally, I found this post to be really...deep. And moving. I don't know if those are the right words but...wow. I actually registered just so I could reply to this post. I read it and I cried (I'm not the type to cry over things, really...I'm pretty tough I'd say). I am asexual but I can understand this in a way. I am an 18-year-old female asexual. My older half brother moved out when I was nine, so it's kind of like being an only child. I've noticed my parent's relationship and reading your story reminded me of theirs, so perhaps that's why it got to me like it did. My parents have been married for about 19 years I think. I don't recall them ever having a healthy relationship, in my opinion. They're not very affectionate towards each other. Any affection in the relationship seems to be from my father to my mother, and she doesn't really respond. They don't spend time together. My mother won't even stay upstairs to eat dinner with my father much anymore. She'd rather be downstairs, by herself and watch T.V. She sleeps on the couch downstairs every night and has for as long as I can remember. She claimed it was because of the dog that would growl at her when she'd enter the room. That dog is now dead and has been for years. She also said it was because my dad farts in his sleep (I do understand that; I can hear it from the kitchen at night). She's come up with a few other excuses. But anyway, they don't have anything in common. The only time they see eachother is at dinner and at dinner and in passing throughout the house.

Years ago, I remember them arguing and my mother bringing up divorce. My dad didn't want to divorce. Obviously, they didn't. But I wish they had. My father is an outgoing man with some great hobbies and interests. He rides horses, golfs, goes fishing (even though I'm kind of against it, I mention it anyway), does wood working...all kinds of things that I'm sure he could find someone to share with. My mother watches T.V. I love them both, though I get along so much better with my mother, so it's not like I'm biased and saying he's super interesting and she doesn't have interests really. It's the truth. She draws occasionally, but not really a major interest I would say. Oh, and my mother is easily irritated and seems to get annoyed or angry with my dad several times a week (she's just like that with everyone, even me). Oh, and of course, I can't help but know, that they never have sex. She sleeps on a couch outside my room. I always see her there. My dad's bedroom door is never closed. It's weird for me to think about them having sex, but it's sad to know that they don't and that their marriage is...not really much of marriage. I wish that they would get divorced. I bet inside their marriage, it's much like yours. I think my father would be so much happier if he would divorce her and find someone with like interests. He's very modest so I don't know anything about his sex drive, but I'm assuming he has one and would prefer a relationship with a sexual person. My mother is modest as well, but I'm close enough to know a little bit about her sex drive, and she doesn't have one.

Sorry for blabbing on so much. My point of this is, I can see you're unhappy in your relationship. You're still young, there is still time for you to find someone to connect with, to be happy with. I know it's not what your wife wants but if she loves you, then shouldn't she let you be free instead of trapping you in a relationship that is making you (and her) unhappy? Isn't it better that at least one out of the two people are happy instead of the two staying together and being miserable? I know she said she loves you, and I'm sure she does, and can't live without you, but she doesn't sound all that happy either. If my father were to post here with this same issue, I would tell him the same thing. I suppose I hope that if I can't help my parent's marriage, I can help some stranger's marriage by giving them the same advice. It doesn't sound like you want to stay together, and I understand that. It's hard to imagine even making such a huge change in your life when you've been with her for all these years, but I think there would be much for you to gain. I think it is time for you to think of yourself and do something for yourself. I wish you the best of luck.

ETA: Also, I read your story and thought to myself, "Wow, is this something I would be putting someone else through someday?" (I am a hetero-romantic asexual.) It really made me think. Maybe I will end up alone after all. I would rather that than put someone through that pain.

[xsex]

Personally, I found this post to be really...deep. And moving. I don't know if those are the right words but...wow. I actually registered just so I could reply to this post. I read it and I cried (I'm not the type to cry over things, really...I'm pretty tough I'd say). I am asexual but I can understand this in a way. I am an 18-year-old female asexual. My older half brother moved out when I was nine, so it's kind of like being an only child. I've noticed my parent's relationship and reading your story reminded me of theirs, so perhaps that's why it got to me like it did. My parents have been married for about 19 years I think. I don't recall them ever having a healthy relationship, in my opinion. They're not very affectionate towards each other. Any affection in the relationship seems to be from my father to my mother, and she doesn't really respond. They don't spend time together. My mother won't even stay upstairs to eat dinner with my father much anymore. She'd rather be downstairs, by herself and watch T.V. She sleeps on the couch downstairs every night and has for as long as I can remember. She claimed it was because of the dog that would growl at her when she'd enter the room. That dog is now dead and has been for years. She also said it was because my dad farts in his sleep (I do understand that; I can hear it from the kitchen at night). She's come up with a few other excuses. But anyway, they don't have anything in common. The only time they see eachother is at dinner and at dinner and in passing throughout the house.

Years ago, I remember them arguing and my mother bringing up divorce. My dad didn't want to divorce. Obviously, they didn't. But I wish they had. My father is an outgoing man with some great hobbies and interests. He rides horses, golfs, goes fishing (even though I'm kind of against it, I mention it anyway), does wood working...all kinds of things that I'm sure he could find someone to share with. My mother watches T.V. I love them both, though I get along so much better with my mother, so it's not like I'm biased and saying he's super interesting and she doesn't have interests really. It's the truth. She draws occasionally, but not really a major interest I would say. Oh, and my mother is easily irritated and seems to get annoyed or angry with my dad several times a week (she's just like that with everyone, even me). Oh, and of course, I can't help but know, that they never have sex. She sleeps on a couch outside my room. I always see her there. My dad's bedroom door is never closed. It's weird for me to think about them having sex, but it's sad to know that they don't and that their marriage is...not really much of marriage. I wish that they would get divorced. I bet inside their marriage, it's much like yours. I think my father would be so much happier if he would divorce her and find someone with like interests. He's very modest so I don't know anything about his sex drive, but I'm assuming he has one and would prefer a relationship with a sexual person. My mother is modest as well, but I'm close enough to know a little bit about her sex drive, and she doesn't have one.

Sorry for blabbing on so much. My point of this is, I can see you're unhappy in your relationship. You're still young, there is still time for you to find someone to connect with, to be happy with. I know it's not what your wife wants but if she loves you, then shouldn't she let you be free instead of trapping you in a relationship that is making you (and her) unhappy? Isn't it better that at least one out of the two people are happy instead of the two staying together and being miserable? I know she said she loves you, and I'm sure she does, and can't live without you, but she doesn't sound all that happy either. If my father were to post here with this same issue, I would tell him the same thing. I suppose I hope that if I can't help my parent's marriage, I can help some stranger's marriage by giving them the same advice. It doesn't sound like you want to stay together, and I understand that. It's hard to imagine even making such a huge change in your life when you've been with her for all these years, but I think there would be much for you to gain. I think it is time for you to think of yourself and do something for yourself. I wish you the best of luck.

ETA: Also, I read your story and thought to myself, "Wow, is this something I would be putting someone else through someday?" (I am a hetero-romantic asexual.) It really made me think. Maybe I will end up alone after all. I would rather that than put someone through that pain.

[Ender]

That last one might be better with "No, it's not enough... I need you to want it, too", because that's pretty much the brick wall most asexuals hit. Even if they're willing to have sex 4 times a day, if they aren't "into it" then it's still not satisfying.

Although if the sexual needs it every day and the asexual can't offer more than once or twice a week, that would be pretty aggravating as well.

Check. I added your suggestion sorta (I need you to enjoy it). I thought about starting with hugs...might go back an edit it.

<_< Maybe we just DON'T get to have relationships. That's what I'm learning.

I don't know you well enough to offer snuggles, but I'm tempted.

Thanks. I'm just being pathetic.

[n44ww]

This is the point where I just want to throw my hands up in the air and scream. It just seems like doing anything with a sexual is just a slippery slope. You're damned if you do, damned it you don't. And you're damned if you don't do it A LOT.

Oh, kissing is nice.

Well, let's make out. I haven't been really kissed unless our tongues are in each other's throat.

I like to cuddle.

Well, let's cuddle naked. I need to feel skin against skin or I don't feel cared about.

How about a backrub.

How about you rub something else.

Oh, ok, I don't mind touching your happy place.

Touch it. Touch it now. Wait, don't just touch it...get me off.

Fine.

Lick it now.

Fine, as long as it's not all the time.

No, do once a week. Let's have intercourse too...because I don't feel satisfied with your meager sexual offerings.

Fine.

No, it's not enoguh...I need to get laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaid over and over again.

Fine.^

But I want you to enjoy it!^

*bangs head against wall*

Yes, I'm being half-sarcastic, but only half.

Don't mind me...I'm in a mood. I think reading this forum is turning me aromantic. Maybe I should stop.

ETA: ^

A sexual man always wanting more, with an asexual or a sexual woman, I think is a hallmark of being a sexual man.

With the exception of a "friendship with benefits", having sexual relations by walking up to your female partner and just asking for it just doesn't work, unless the female sexual is easily aroused. The normally accepted process is to romance, stimulate interest, ease into it, foreplay and then sex. Thinking of a sexual guy trying to convince a sexual woman, it seems this process is mandatory, otherwise the sexual woman will not respond physically (pardon me for this, but she won't develop spontaneous vaginal lubrication, which is a physical sign of her favorable response to the sexual man's overatures).

With all of the above in mind, here's the sexual with an asexual frustration story:

[kiss]

[pull away quickly-no long kisses]

[rub shoulder]

[scowl]

You look nice

Uh-huh...thanks

I would like...

How about a raincheck?

I'm feeling really close to you right now and...

Well, I don't

How about me giving you a backrub. I know you like that.

OK

[backrub]

Thanks, I liked that.

Could we...

No

I think it would feel nice for both of us...

[rolls over and goes to sleep]

The word that seems to come to mind with this situation is co-dependency:

The sexual experiences countless rejections (is that love...?)

The asexual silently tolerates pain, anger, frustration, etc. (is that love...?)

and they both really want to stay in the relationship

[Galen]

This is the point where I just want to throw my hands up in the air and scream. It just seems like doing anything with a sexual is just a slippery slope. You're damned if you do, damned it you don't. And you're damned if you don't do it A LOT.

Oh, kissing is nice.

Well, let's make out. I haven't been really kissed unless our tongues are in each other's throat.

I like to cuddle.

Well, let's cuddle naked. I need to feel skin against skin or I don't feel cared about.

How about a backrub.

How about you rub something else.

Oh, ok, I don't mind touching your happy place.

Touch it. Touch it now. Wait, don't just touch it...get me off.

Fine.

Lick it now.

Fine, as long as it's not all the time.

No, do once a week. Let's have intercourse too...because I don't feel satisfied with your meager sexual offerings.

Fine.

No, it's not enoguh...I need to get laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaid over and over again.

Fine.^

But I want you to enjoy it!^

*bangs head against wall*

Yes, I'm being half-sarcastic, but only half.

Don't mind me...I'm in a mood. I think reading this forum is turning me aromantic. Maybe I should stop.

ETA: ^

Seems your beginning to understand.

Personally, I am not a daily sexual, it is more about when opportunities arrive it would be nice to take advantage of them.

Most of what n44ww wrote applies also.

Also performance issues, let me wait a month plus than having h'orderves and having it over during soup before getting to the main course and then having dessert (post cuddling) cut short.

[Ender]

With all of the above in mind, here's the sexual with an asexual frustration story:

[kiss]

[pull away quickly-no long kisses]

[rub shoulder]

[scowl]

You look nice

Uh-huh...thanks

I would like...

How about a raincheck?

I'm feeling really close to you right now and...

Well, I don't

How about me giving you a backrub. I know you like that.

OK

[backrub]

Thanks, I liked that.

Could we...

No

I think it would feel nice for both of us...

[rolls over and goes to sleep]

The word that seems to come to mind with this situation is co-dependency:

The sexual experiences countless rejections (is that love...?)

The asexual silently tolerates pain, anger, frustration, etc. (is that love...?)

and they both really want to stay in the relationship

There are so many things wrong with that, that I don't even know where to begin. And that's my point. I read post after post of sexuals coming here to really just find out how to get their asexual to have more sex with them so that they can reach a compromise on how they can get more sex out of the deal. That's not a compromise. That's not even really trying. If that wasn't the case, you'd know why your scenerio is a really bad way to approach it and why your co-dependency model is really messed up.

Seems your beginning to understand.

Beginning to understand? You are being sarcastic there I think? We know the game you play all too well. It's just frustrating when we hear sexuals claim they want one thing...when most really don't.

[Galen]

I did not mean any sarcasm, nor do I understand "we know the game" what "game are you talking about, it is not a game and I don't believe you speak for all asexuals.

Lets be very clear if possible online. Any game was unitentionally played on us when our asexual spouses married us with knowledge that there would be sex etc. They and us did not know they were "asexual" at the time or even there was a large difference in libidos. We did not marry for sex, but thought that was part of the package. Many of us have stayed married 15years+ and are here on AVEN because there is much more to our relationships than the lost of emotional sex.

You appear to be blind to anything but the actual physical part, there is a much larger emotional part that we are mourning here. Having your partner actually desire you and not just doing it is missing.

There have been plenty of analogies I believe, but how do I express how sex is not like other activities in that it is suppose to be restricted to just your partner when in a monogynous relationship, unlike hiking, tennis, opera etc... which a person can do with a friend or even strangers it your partner is not interested. Most everyone I believe would find less enjoyment in any activity if their partner was not happy doing it with them and would normally find others to share that with.

I am not here to change my wife, nor do I believe n44ww is. I wish we could but that appears impossible. I am really here more to chat with others who share similar problems, and to better understand my wife attitudes. By being here I find that 20years of frustrations could of been avoided if my wife and I knew about asexuality. I would of felt less rejection, and she would understand that I am feeling stuff she is not for a reason.

[AVENCakes]

Galen- Your wedding night was the first time your partner and you had sex, right?

How did you make it clear that sex would be expected? How often did you tell her you'd be expecting sex, how often did she say she wanted it? How often did you discuss the sexual nature of your relationship? How sexual had you two been prior to getting married? Was she a virgin at the time? Why didn't you have sex before your wedding night, and what reasons did she give for not?

In other words- what leads you to the conclusion that your wife actually knew what she was getting into by marrying you? What leads you to the conclusion that she's the only one who was playing the game- if you didn't make your needs clear, then you played just as much of a game on her. From your comments in your first post, it sounds like she thought you had the abnormally high libido and she was on the normal scale ("this led to her accepting that I may not be so abnormal") so I'm curious exactly what makes you think that she had the knowledge of how big and how often sex would be a factor.

[AVENCakes]

A sexual man always wanting more, with an asexual or a sexual woman, I think is a hallmark of being a sexual man.

Okay, I really don't get this. Are you trying to say that sexual men are doomed to be unfulfilled with their sex lives? And there are sexual men who are happy iwth their sex lives and women who have a larger sexual appetite than their sexual male partner can fulfill.

With the exception of a "friendship with benefits", having sexual relations by walking up to your female partner and just asking for it just doesn't work, unless the female sexual is easily aroused. The normally accepted process is to romance, stimulate interest, ease into it, foreplay and then sex. Thinking of a sexual guy trying to convince a sexual woman, it seems this process is mandatory, otherwise the sexual woman will not respond physically (pardon me for this, but she won't develop spontaneous vaginal lubrication, which is a physical sign of her favorable response to the sexual man's overatures).

Yeah, women probably don't get spontaneously aroused as often as men do- but it's also less obvious. Which means girls can also masturbate publically in ways men can't even dream because of that. It also seems like a lot of non-sexual things can get them aroused- like the vibrations from a bus or bicycle.

Also- why the heck would friends with benefits girl be different than romantic relationship girl? They're both girls. And, yes, while a lot of girls need emotional stimulation- that's not true of all of them. Some girls pounce their male partners and need little to no foreplay. There are also some guys who need a lot of foreplay.

It sounds like you're working from the mistaken idea that women are inhrently less sexual than men. Yeah, they typically need emotional stimulation while guys are generally "in the mood" whenever tehy see a hot chick, but those are both generalizations. There are guys with lower libidos and girls with extremely high ones, just like there are guys who don't see sex as that big a deal (yes, I'm still talking sexuals) and girls who can barely go a week wtihout it.

I think it would feel nice for both of us...

Yeah... That's a great way to convince someone for whom sex is unenjoyable. "Okay, you didn't like it any time we've done it before, but this time you will. Really."

[Sally]

Lets be very clear if possible online. Any game was unitentionally played on us when our asexual spouses married us with knowledge that there would be sex etc. They and us did not know they were "asexual" at the time or even there was a large difference in libidos.

As an asexual who was married and a long-time partner to a sexual, I don't feel at all comfortable with the term "game" being used here. If the asexual spouse marries the sexual spouse without knowing they are asexual, they're not playing a game, unintentional or otherwise. Game is a word that has a lot of blame and intention behind it, especially if you use it about someone who's doing the best they can with limited or no knowledge.

You could just as easily say that the sexual married the asexual with the intent of having sex without checking first with the asexual whether that was what the latter wanted. Is that an unintentional game?

[Galen]

Galen- Your wedding night was the first time your partner and you had sex, right?

How did you make it clear that sex would be expected? How often did you tell her you'd be expecting sex, how often did she say she wanted it? How often did you discuss the sexual nature of your relationship? How sexual had you two been prior to getting married? Was she a virgin at the time? Why didn't you have sex before your wedding night, and what reasons did she give for not?

In other words- what leads you to the conclusion that your wife actually knew what she was getting into by marrying you? What leads you to the conclusion that she's the only one who was playing the game- if you didn't make your needs clear, then you played just as much of a game on her. From your comments in your first post, it sounds like she thought you had the abnormally high libido and she was on the normal scale ("this led to her accepting that I may not be so abnormal") so I'm curious exactly what makes you think that she had the knowledge of how big and how often sex would be a factor.

Your still not getting it while acting all superior that us sexuals are so tied to our hormones.

All our experience prior to being married were the same and together, I knew her for 10years+ before that and had a long engagement etc. If that helps you any.

I know neither of us knew what we were getting into. There is no one to blame. I felt like it was my fault though for the longest time because of my inexperience.

The problem is not "intercourse" as you understand it from some clinical description.

The problem though is the emotional connections between desire and sex. Lets just drop sex, and say I want to be desired like I desire her. Its not that I am not getting sex, it is that I am not being desired sexually. It's not that we don't enjoy each others companionship, thoughts, company etc...

Since I now know she can not desire me that way, I no longer have to feel rejected, when hugs or kisses are shorter than I desire. That she may not come straight to me when she gets home with a hug. She does not wish to french kiss lightly or deeply. I am one of the lucky ones it seems that sex is not painful or disgusting to my wife and sometimes even nice, buts its not desired, short and infrequent.

How do I put it, I haven't tried LSD etc.. so how can I empathize with someone who is on withdrawal from it, or really should I condemn them for it? So how do you think you can analyze my motives etc?

[Galen]

I dislike "game" also, sorry I used it. It was only in reply to being told sexuals were playing games.

[AVENCakes]

When did I say any of that? I'm not acting superior or condemning you for your problems- I'm annoyed because you keep flipflopping.

You said, and these are your quotes, "Any game was unitentionally played on us when our asexual spouses married us with knowledge that there would be sex etc." then you say "I know neither of us knew what we were getting into". If you already know that she was just as clueless as you- why did you say that she had that knowledge? Also:

I know that sex can be an extremely emotional thing.

I know that it can hurt like hell to be rejected, I've been rejected before. I know that not being desired the way you desire someone is aggravating. This isn't the same thing, but my heart broke when I thought my partner didn't want to marry me but I wanted to marry them. No, I can not empathize with what you're going through, I won't pretend to know exactly what you feel like. But that doesn't mean I'm incapable of sympathizing, and neither are you.

For someone who you seem to think doesn't get you, I've written something that sexuals told me summed up how they felt in a sexual/asexual relationship perfectly. So while I may not be completely aware of the exact emotional issues, I'm not totally ignorant.

I am sick of being told that I don't know that sex is an extremely emotional thing when I do understand that. I dont' have sex with my partner, but my also asexual partner and I enjoy the intimacy of non-pressure "sexual" acts because we enjoy being close, because it's wonderful to feel their skin against mine and to know that we can bring each other pleasure no one else can. I don't know exactly what sex feels like to you- but I'm also not sitting here picking my nose saying "garsh, sex isn't that big a deal at all".

When an asexual doesn't agree with you, it's not because they just don't understand sex. It's because they don't agree with you.

And, in conclusion stop putting words in my mouth.

[Galen]

My apologies then. As I have said before words especially in a forum can be interpreted widely.

Also when I repeated your use of "game" I said it was "unitentionally". Which to me meant there was no game. Which I also feel there wasn't.

You said "We know the game you play all too well." I took it offensively, sorry.

I do believe there are times when people may use there looks and sex (game) to land a partner , I have not read or believe any of them here are them.

I am not trying to tell you, my wife or anyone else how they should feel. I am only trying to express how I feel and how I believe some other sexuals here feel.

Seems your beginning to understand.

Beginning to understand? You are being sarcastic there I think? We know the game you play all too well. It's just frustrating when we hear sexuals claim they want one thing...when most really don't.

I meant no sarcasm, I was being sincere. But then I am being told I am playing a game as you told n44ww. Sorry if I sound confused, probably because I don't know what I want.

[AVENCakes]

My apologies then. As I have said before words especially in a forum can be interpreted widely.

Also when I repeated your use of "game" I said it was "unitentionally". Which to me meant there was no game. Which I also feel there wasn't.

You said "We know the game you play all too well." I took it offensively, sorry.

I sincerely hope that entire post was at Ender and not myself.

[xsex]

Star gazed,

Are you the same person who previously posted under the name of R.Draconian? If so, why did you change your name mid stream? Either way, your postings are becoming far too aggressive towards others postings and you seem to be intentionally drawing others into confrontations they never wanted, nor need in their lives right now. This is all about trying to understand and untangle an extremely confusing issue were all trying to come to terms with in our relationships. Thus far, no one has indicated that they have all the answers. In fact, most of us have very few answers to anything we are learning about this late in our lives and relationships. Don't think that you need to respond to every post, for you can't possibly be the only person that has some insight to offer others. Here is a tip. Write about your own feelings and stop confronting and questioning everyone else's.

[Galen]

Yep, a lot of my frustrations must of been confusing ender and stargazed. Sorry again.

[Ender]

I'm completely comfortable with my use of the word game. I was referring to the way in which the asexual scenerio was written. The sexual tries several different methods to instigate a sexual situation and when the asexual partner finally agrees to an activity (merely for that activities sake), it's met afterwards with a request for sex. And no, I can't speak for all asexuals, but I think I speak for 95% of us when I say...we know that tactic. Very well.

I think the way you took 'game' and ran with it says a lot about your feelings towards your wife and your relationship.

I am really here more to chat with others who share similar problems, and to better understand my wife attitudes.

I totally believe you on the former, but I don't believe you on the latter. That's the claim that many sexuals make here, yet it's the one that very few care to explore.

Having said that, I must compliment sexualwithasexual. It's very clear she DOES want to understand her partner. It's very, very refreshing to see.

[Sally]

Star gazed,

Are you the same person who previously posted under the name of R.Draconian? If so, why did you change your name mid stream? Either way, your postings are becoming far too aggressive towards others postings and you seem to be intentionally drawing others into confrontations they never wanted, nor need in their lives right now. This is all about trying to understand and untangle an extremely confusing issue were all trying to come to terms with in our relationships. Thus far, no one has indicated that they have all the answers. In fact, most of us have very few answers to anything we are learning about this late in our lives and relationships. Don't think that you need to respond to every post, for you can't possibly be the only person that has some insight to offer others. Here is a tip. Write about your own feelings and stop confronting and questioning everyone else's.

Changing your name (which of course isn't your true name, except in my case) is not uncommon on AVEN and other forums, and there's nothing wrong with it.

It's not really the place of other posters to decide when someone is "far too aggressive." There are moderators to do that. If you disagree, say you disagree. Otherwise, making Olympian pronouncements about another poster's tone is kind of patronizing. So are the rest of your comments about how to post. No one (except the moderators) are the arbiters of what should and shouldnt be done here.

I've long been familiar with the former R.Draconis' posts, and I've always appreciated the thought behind them and their clarity. Obviously s/he was disturbed when posting with all caps, etc. That's not unusual on this thread, because here is where asexuals, in an effort to be helpful to sexuals, try to explain asexuality. In the process, we often disagree with how we are characterized by sexuals, and disagreements about definitions, etc. occur. Asexuals are usually dissimilar in one respect from sexuals, but we still have plenty of emotion, and we display it when we feel either misunderstood or threatened.

[Ender]

I know that sex can be an extremely emotional thing.

I am SICK of being told that I don't know that sex is an extremely emotional thing when I do understand that.

I don't know exactly what sex feels like to you- but I'm also not sitting here picking my nose saying "garsh, sex isn't that big a deal at all".

This x 1000.

[AVENCakes]

I'm completely comfortable with my use of the word game. I was referring to the way in which the asexual scenerio was written. The sexual tries several different methods to instigate a sexual situation and when the asexual partner finally agrees to an activity (merely for that activities sake), it's met afterwards with a request for sex. And no, I can't speak for all asexuals, but I think I speak for 95% of us when I say...we know that tactic. Very well.

I think the way you took 'game' and ran with it says a lot about your feelings towards your wife and your relationship.

Agreed. It's why a lot of asexuals in relationships give up on phsical affection in general, but I've said that a million times, probably just on this thread. <_< It's too bad no one was willing to ask what you meant and chose to just assume the worst.

Having said that, I must compliment sexualwithasexual. It's very clear she DOES want to understand her partner. It's very, very refreshing to see.

Definitely. sexualwithasexual deserves kudos and *raises glass*

Maybe all the sexuals are trying to understand their partner- but if they are, it seems like they've got a lot of negative emotions getting in the way. I would say I can understand that, but apparently being understood by an asexual is bad. But, if anyone wants my advice (ha!)- spend less time insulting asexuals who are trying to help, becuase they're coming from a similar viewpoint of your partner and are just trying to HELP.

Changing your name (which of course isn't your true name, except in my case) is not uncommon on AVEN and other forums, and there's nothing wrong with it.

Yeah... We have a member who changes their username about every week, I don't remember the last time he's gone more than a month without switching it, it's not to confuse people, ot's just because he can't find one he likes. I'd been thinking about it for a few months, it's not like I did this to confuse people if that's what anyone thought. I think everyone's so used to people changing their name/avatar that they just go with it.

*really doesn't know why they just wasted time justifying themselves needlessly*

[LadyLongLocks]

Many sites (I'm on one such site) allow for only one user name for a lifetime and it can only be changed due to very special circumstances, so the question was appropriate.

It does make it difficult to follow members and their posts, but now we know that name changes are allowed.

[Sally]

Many sites (I'm on one such site) allow for only one user name for a lifetime and it can only be changed due to very special circumstances, so the question was appropriate.

It does make it difficult to follow members and their posts, but now we know that name changes are allowed.

You're right, it was a natural question. However, the way it was phrased was confrontive:

"Are you the same person who previously posted under the name of R.Draconian? If so, why did you change your name mid stream?"