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Sexless gay relationship - Please help!


Stephen_France

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Stephen_France

Dear all,

I came across this forum via Google but probably there are some people here who can help me:

I'm male, 35 years old and for about 5 years I'm living in a sexless gay relationship. My partner is perfect in any possible way and our relationship is without any major problems - actually many friends are jealous and envy our partnership.

The only problem is that my partner is not interested in any sexual activity. We're probably having sex 2-3 times a year and each time I think he's more doing it for me than for himself. At the beginning of our relationship (the first 6-9 months) everything was fine, but then sex just got less and less frequent. We tried to speak about this many times, but don't come to a conclusion. My partner just says he's not interested in sex - period. He's masturbating, but not very often.

I love him very much and don't want to end the relationship because of that. But I'm really missing the sex and have a difficult time working around the issue. My main problem is that I don't understand how he cannot be interested in sex. Does that mean he's not in love with me? Or that he finds me unattractive? Any advice what I can do?

I'm looking forward to getting your thoughts,

Stephen

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I would say that in most relationships when a partner "doesn't love" the other, they are usually in it for the sex (pardon me if I'm wrong, I've never had a relationship, ha ha) but since he isn't having sex with you and you have been together for five years, if he's not in love with you or attracted to you (in this case romantically rather than sexually) then I'm not sure why he'd still be with you other than social pressure or convenience. I'll leave that up to your own interpretation.

The story is a familiar one on AVEN... the chances are he is a (homo-romantic) asexual. It is possible for an asexual to fall in love and cherish someone without wanting sex with them- this is what we call romantic attraction rather than sexual attraction. He could love you and everything about you just as you do him, but not want the physical act. I can see how it might be hard to understand, but it doesn't mean, as I say, that he can't absolutely love you. There are other people on here with asexual partners that I'm sure can explain it better than me. As for masturbation, don't take that as a sign that he's being two faced about the whole sex situation- asexuals can have a sex drive despite not having sexual attraction. I myself have no desire to share my body with others (I'm also a homo-romantic asexual so I do want a girlfriend) but with what little drive I have I satisfy in private, I consider it something I don't want or need to share. That also doesn't mean that he doesn't love you or finds you unattractive.

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Hey Stephen :cake:

First off, kudos for you for working at your relationship and remaining with your partner in spite of the lack of sex. I've heard many stories of once-faithful partners bailing at the first hint of no-sex. More cake for you! :cake:

I can speak from experience: the lack of sexual interest has NOTHING to do with how much your partner loves you. I've been quite head over heels in love but was still put off by the idea of having sex. (and couldn't actually bring myself to do it at all) It had nothing to do with the person I was involved with either. I wasn't sexually attracted to them, I'm not sexually attracted to anyone though. Don't beat yourself up thinking that you're not up to par with his standard of attractiveness or that he doesn't love you because there's a lack of interest. It's just a lack of interest in the activity itself, it doesn't mean anything more. (for myself personally and likely a few other asexuals too- sex is not connected to feelings of love, passion, closeness etc)

I know that it's really hard for sexual people to understand. We're sort of like day and night.(can't have one without the other!) Some people love sex and others don't want it. It might seem odd to compare it to music but some people really love listening to music and some people just aren't moved in the slightest by it. Personally I liiive to listen to music so it strikes me as weird when I encounter people who have no favourite bands, never go to concerts and don't even own a stereo but there's nothing really that weird about it. They just aren't interested in it and there are plenty of other things I'm not interested in either. It's all about balance

Does your partner know about this website? Once I found out that I wasn't alone in feeling this way I found it a lot easier to talk about and understood myself and my relationships with others a lot better too.

I really hope you find what you need here!

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Stephen_France

Orianna & Fix - thanks very much for your comments - and the cake :rolleyes:

It already helps to know that my relationship isn't the only one suffering from this problem and it's good to know that it might more be some lack of interest in sex generally instead of simply with me.

I don't have much knowledge about asexuality, I have to admit. Honestly, before this morning I didn't even know the term existed. Let me try to understand this a bit better. As far as I know I'm the first real partner by boyfriend had. He did have some one-night stands way before meeting me and a very short relationship before me. He doesn't speak much about the one or the other, but I assume that there have been two or three dozen one night stands and that the relationship lasted a couple of weeks or so.

For me, the fact that we did have sex at the beginning and that he did have one-night stands prior to me seems to show that he's not completely uninterested in sex. Is this true? Or can asexuality mean that he tried out sex with different partners just to end up with the knowledge that it's not related to the partner itself but to sex in general? Or is there some difference between having sex with someone you don't know and someone you love? Might it be possible that he's just not interested in having sex with me because he loves me? Having said that, since we're together I never had reason to doubt him in any way and I'm convinced that he didn't have any episodes of infidelity/ sexual relationships with other people.

On some blog I found a classification of reasons why people might not be interested in sex:

http://www.gayrites.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=546

1. Lifelong/generalized: the man has never been interested in any form of sexual activity throughout the course of his life in any type of setting.

2. Acquired/situational: Type 1= the man begins a relationship with sexual enthusiasm, but soon becomes disinterested in partner sex; he still remains interested in solo play, however (eg. masturbation, pornography, Internet sex chats, etc.); Type 2= the man is able to be sexual when there is no possibility of an intimate relationship and becomes disinterested with sex with those whom he feels close or an attachment towards.

3. Acquired/generalized: Type 1= the man was once sexual, but he lost his desire due to medical problems; Type 2= the man is experiencing the effects of aging and andropause (“male menopause”)

I think my situation is a type #2, but I don't know if this classification makes sense at all.

Can you help me to understand this whole question better?

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Orianna & Fix - thanks very much for your comments - and the cake :rolleyes:

For me, the fact that we did have sex at the beginning and that he did have one-night stands prior to me seems to show that he's not completely uninterested in sex. Is this true? Or can asexuality mean that he tried out sex with different partners just to end up with the knowledge that it's not related to the partner itself but to sex in general? Or is there some difference between having sex with someone you don't know and someone you love? Might it be possible that he's just not interested in having sex with me because he loves me? Having said that, since we're together I never had reason to doubt him in any way and I'm convinced that he didn't have any episodes of infidelity/ sexual relationships with other people.

On some blog I found a classification of reasons why people might not be interested in sex:

http://www.gayrites.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=546

1. Lifelong/generalized: the man has never been interested in any form of sexual activity throughout the course of his life in any type of setting.

2. Acquired/situational: Type 1= the man begins a relationship with sexual enthusiasm, but soon becomes disinterested in partner sex; he still remains interested in solo play, however (eg. masturbation, pornography, Internet sex chats, etc.); Type 2= the man is able to be sexual when there is no possibility of an intimate relationship and becomes disinterested with sex with those whom he feels close or an attachment towards.

3. Acquired/generalized: Type 1= the man was once sexual, but he lost his desire due to medical problems; Type 2= the man is experiencing the effects of aging and andropause (“male menopause”)

I think my situation is a type #2, but I don't know if this classification makes sense at all.

Can you help me to understand this whole question better?

I don't think your partner is asexual (though it's possible that he tried those one-night stands only to find out if he likes sex or not). Asexuality is usually lifelong disinterest in sex. But anyway his unwillingness to have sex with you does *not* necessarily mean that his love for you has ended.

IMHO you should try to communicate with him about the matter.

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Stephen_France

Thanks, Mallard! Well, if asexuality is defined this way, I agree. I wasn't aware of that. As I said in my previous post, it's not that he never had sex before - with others or with me - it's just that he does not seem to need/ want any sex. One could evidently argue that the sex he had until now was not driven by his own "desire" but instead by his curiosity of finding out whether he likes sex or not (the one night stand part) or his feelings of guilt towards me. But given that I don't know that, it's difficult to tell.

Probably I should refer to my problem as "very low frequency of sex" instead of "asexuality"?

Does this mean that this is the wrong forum to discuss my problems?

Or can anyone give me some advice what I could do in my situation?

About the communication part: We tried that a couple of times, but it didn't get us far. Whenever I ask he tells me (as you all do by the way), that his lack of sexual desire does not mean that he doesn't love me and that it does not have anything to do with me. It's just that he's not interested in sex. He then tells me that he doesn't know why neither what to do about that.

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Hey, Stephen- what you've described of your partner sounds similar of my situation, actually.

I've been together with my partner for almost four years now, and our sexual relationship has gone the way all of mine ever have. Things start out with enthusiasm- I'm excited for the possibility of a new relationship, new connections, new love, and that "one" experience that can make me understand what sex is really all about.

Needless to say, it never comes.

My sexual relationships have all started out strong, and quickly declined over the years. As I find my experiences more and more disappointing, I lose interest, and eventually, give up trying to "make me work". It isn't that I don't love the partners I've had- and certainly not that I don't love my current. I love her more then anyone else on this Earth; I just have no need for sex.

Warning, this might be TMI//

I do still masturbate, every now and then- it's just a release of physical stress, and I continue on about my day. I've tried to involve my partner in it, but I just can't. The drive, the desire isn't there- but it doesn't have anything to do with my love, or a possible lack thereof.

\\End possible TMI. :P

The best suggestion I can give is just to keep talking. You both need to understand what each needs in the relationship. My partner is very much a sexual person, and she has needs that I take into consideration. She, also, knows and respects that I'm asexual- and that I have different needs, too.

We know it's about compromise- but she's adamant that she is willing to do whatever it takes to make us work, and I am, too.

I can still do my part to please her- that's one of the compromises I've been able to make for her, I can still enjoy being able to make her feel good, even though I don't enjoy sex, nor truly understand it myself. She takes more time to just talk with me, to cuddle and play footsie, to nap together and just be near her- without it leading to a sexual encounter.

Our mental, emotional, and spiritual interchange is far more important to me then a sexual interchange ever will be, and I honestly can't begin to describe the gratitude I feel knowing she respects that.

Just take it one day at a time- talk to him, often! Talk about the things you feel, the needs you have, and if you want to make the relationship work, where you might be able to find some middle ground.

Despite popular Disney endings, relationships are extremely hard work. They are absolutely worth it, but that doesn't make them any less difficult.

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I love him very much and don't want to end the relationship because of that. But I'm really missing the sex and have a difficult time working around the issue. My main problem is that I don't understand how he cannot be interested in sex. Does that mean he's not in love with me? Or that he finds me unattractive? Any advice what I can do?

Like others have said, this lack of sexual interest has nothing to do with attractiveness or love. When I first told my boyfriend that I was asexual, he took it pretty personally. At first he asked me why I even dated him if I found him unattractive. I had to explain that this was not the case. I did find him attractive, just not sexually attractive. For most asexuals, romantic and sexual attraction are two separate entities. If I met my "soulmate", I wouldn't want to have sex him him.

For me, the fact that we did have sex at the beginning and that he did have one-night stands prior to me seems to show that he's not completely uninterested in sex. Is this true? Or can asexuality mean that he tried out sex with different partners just to end up with the knowledge that it's not related to the partner itself but to sex in general? Or is there some difference between having sex with someone you don't know and someone you love? Might it be possible that he's just not interested in having sex with me because he loves me? Having said that, since we're together I never had reason to doubt him in any way and I'm convinced that he didn't have any episodes of infidelity/ sexual relationships with other people.

Like you said, your partner may or may not be asexual. If he is asexual, it is possible that he was simply experimenting with sex. He may have been trying to make himself like sex or have been trying to fit in. On the other hand, your partner may simple have a very low sex drive. Also, there is always a possibility that some external forces (i.e. stress, medical issues) have decreased his libido.

Probably I should refer to my problem as "very low frequency of sex" instead of "asexuality"?

Does this mean that this is the wrong forum to discuss my problems?

Or can anyone give me some advice what I could do in my situation?

This forum is open to everyone from sexaholics to asexuals. The best advise that I have for you is to discuss this with your partner. Talk to him about all the possibilities - asexual, medical, low libido, etc. Most importantly, tell your partner how you feel about the situation. Be understanding, but also tell him how important this is to you. I know it is hard to talk with others about sex, but I think it is vital. It took me weeks to work up the courage to tell my boyfriend about my asexuality, but I felt so relieved after discussing it with him. It actually improved our relationship.

Also, you might want to check out the forum for Sexual Partners and Friends. Some other people might be in a situation similar to yours. Good luck!

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Stephen_France

Baby Blue/ Novalee - thanks so much for your comments!

Your posts really help me to understand the whole thing better. It seems that my boyfriend, as you, might simply not get anything out of sex. I have to admit that I cannot say I understand. For me, sex is great and an experience of closeness and pleasure. But I assume this might not hold for everyone.

This might be too personal, but can you try to explain why sex is so boring for you? Does sex leave you with neutral feelings or even create negative ones? I'd really like to understand this point better.

And we'll probably need to continue (and extend) the talking part. As many others before us (I assume) we tried the middle ground of me masturbating and he being next to me, but this did not really work out. Now, we have solved the issue in a way that we only have sex very rarely, e.g. on vacation or similar. Given that we're not living together, I can work around that by masturbating whenever he's not here and getting my emotions under control this way. But it get's a bit more difficult when we're together for an extended period and I don't find time to be alone with myself. The main problem I'm having (I think) is that I really love him and don't want to leave him - although this likely means that I won't have much sex anymore in future, which is not an easy thought to get used to.

Thanks for the reference to the "Sexual Partners and Friends" forum - I'll definitvely look into that.

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This might be too personal, but can you try to explain why sex is so boring for you? Does sex leave you with neutral feelings or even create negative ones? I'd really like to understand this point better.

.

I'll make a comment on that. Imagine being asked/expected to eat a food that doesn't please you. And being asked/expected to eat it regularly, over a long period of time. And having the person who's expected that of you make a huge dramatic deal over it. Thus, you're not only doing something that you really don't want to do, but you're also dealing with the emotions of the person you have to do it with.

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Roy(Banned)
This might be too personal, but can you try to explain why sex is so boring for you? Does sex leave you with neutral feelings or even create negative ones? I'd really like to understand this point better.

Some asexuals do enjoy sex, some are completely repulsed by it, and some don't care either way. It is not the actual feelings we have towards it that count, just that we don't feel that desire to do it, unlike most people. As an asexual, I doubt the idea of sex would ever have crossed my mind were it not for the fact that society is inherently sexual.

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evanescence

<<This might be too personal, but can you try to explain why sex is so boring for you? Does sex leave you with neutral feelings or even create negative ones?>>

Just browsing through this thread, but think I can address this a little.

1. When you do not get aroused by activities that are "supposed" to arouse you, like kissing and groping and getting into lewd positions, you feel annoyed at yourself, annoyed at the other person, bored, and a little defective -- a rather unpleasant state of mind

2. Feeling obligated to play-act (feign more pleasure than you feel), an almost instinctive response when I have sex, is dicomfiting and wearying

3. Hangups like an aversion to spit or slime can tip the balance of feeling from neutral to negative

4. An orgasm (which lasts just a few seconds) in no way makes up for 1, 2 and 3. It's much less stressful to get the orgasm from masturbation and not have to deal with 1, 2 and 3.

HTH Evanescence

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panther6979

I am 30yrs and in a 4 year relationship with my fiancee. She is the love of my life. When we first got together things were great sexually. We had a lot of fun. I have a high sex drive, and she told me about a week ago that she is asexual.

I believe that I am a very open minded person. I have to admit I was a bit scared on how this was going to affect our relationship, and she was cry and upset because she was scared I would leave. I knew that leaving was never an option, I love her to much, this women stolen my heart. So still in shock I sat down and read some information off this web site, and I turned to her and said, "Do you think that being Homosexual is a choice?" She said well no. I said, "Well than do you believe that asexuality is a choice?" she said no. I told her then why are you so upset.

I love you for who your are not for what is between your legs. We have agreed to compromise, a little give and take. However, I am wondering, if I should be asking she to do something she doesn't like. Now she said she would just be pleasing me and that she likes to please me because she loves me, but am I really asking too much? I want to respect her and her asexuality and I am not sure if I am totally doing that but asking her to please me every now and then.

Anyone have any advice?

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We have agreed to compromise, a little give and take. However, I am wondering, if I should be asking she to do something she doesn't like. Now she said she would just be pleasing me and that she likes to please me because she loves me, but am I really asking too much? I want to respect her and her asexuality and I am not sure if I am totally doing that but asking her to please me every now and then.

Anyone have any advice?

It's hard to tell what she thinks. My wife is much like your fiancee (and you're pretty lucky your fiancee likes to please you).

Knowing your partner is asexual makes you want to be more careful (that's how I've been acting with my wife since we've discovered she is asexual / demi-sexual).

So now I'm taking great precautions with her, which seem rather useless apparently, because when she doesn't want (when she is not in the mood or tired), she says no, simply (and definitely). Which is 100% okay with me, of course.

Remember most people won't engage in doing something they don't like. You should be able to guess what she's thinking, or better, talk with her. If you both make sure of what you want/need, it'll be easier. But it's a never-ending work :cake:

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CreakyKeegan

I love him very much and don't want to end the relationship because of that. But I'm really missing the sex and have a difficult time working around the issue. My main problem is that I don't understand how he cannot be interested in sex. Does that mean he's not in love with me? Or that he finds me unattractive? Any advice what I can do?

Let me try to explain this based on my own personal experience, as I am a gay asexual myself. :)

How can I not be interested in sex? The same way you might not like or understand Shakespeare. Or some other, oftenly deemed complicated to understand and is thus something coined uninteresting.

Does this mean he doesn't love you? Or that he finds you unattractive? Nuuu of course not! I try to explain this to a lot of people, but perhaps why I don't like the idea of sex is that I find all people absolutely beautiful. I love people more for their flaws than their perfections. And perhaps my love of them can only be expressed in what most people would call "brotherly" love, or "friendship" love, even when I really love them and wish I could spend the rest of my life with them.

This might be too personal, but can you try to explain why sex is so boring for you? Does sex leave you with neutral feelings or even create negative ones? I'd really like to understand this point better.

Sex, to me, is energy spent on something unnecessary when I could be using it to study, or doing something more productive. A simple hug to me means more than 30 minutes of romping sex. I can't do it. I don't like it. I hate it. Last time someone tried to get me into bed, I cried. I felt very disrespected, and almost as if he was only using me. It felt horrible.

It was like setting me up to die, but prolonging it just long enough to torture me like mad. But that's my own personaly feelings about it. To me, everyone appreciates a hug, and a hug is the best thing you can give a person.

Does all this mean I don't like closeness? No. However, my idea of closeness is what a lot of people would consider a best friend. But instead of just being a best friend, they're there for you, living with you, helping you, and you're helping them... and oh it's so beautiful~.

I'm going to stop now, before I end up fantasizing too much ^_^. Bye bye.

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  • 3 years later...

Hello there,

I came across this topic when pondering my own situation, which I do from time to time. I know the thread started and ended over 3 years ago, but maybe the originator is still looking in?

stephen_france, when I read your initial posting, I realised you could easily have been writing about me, almost word for word. I am with my partner for over 12 years, we have a great relationship and we have built a wonderful life together, something I am both proud of and thankful for, and I would never cast away for any reason. However, as in your situation, we have almost no sex life together, and for years this was a source of worry and frustration for me. After just a few months into our relationship, I started getting "no" a lot, and it really threw me into all kinds of doubt and anxiety.

What was wrong? Was he having doubts about me? Was I not attractive? Did he think he had made a mistake in forming a relationship with me?

These questions and more shrouded me in a blanket of unease and frustration. He told me that after he came out, he had a couple of years of being out on the scene, one-night stands and just 1 other relationship which lasted about 8 months. I wondered if he had been more sexually active in those times than now? However he was very reluctant to talk about this entire topic at all, dismissing it, one-word answers, etc - it was just a no-go area.

Despite this, everything else in our relationship was A1. Our connection was then and is now deep, committed, genuine and stable. Friends regarded ours as the 'model' gay relationship (actually I don't believe in labelling relationships; people are people, regardless of gender). The doubt and frustration kept chipping away at me, however.

In all this time, I am quite certain that he wasn't having any kind of affair or liaison then or now. I'm quite certain of this.

Being your typical passive-aggressive, I thought I could handle this and keep going, but in the end it came to a head - I told him that the constant rejection, the endless "No", the months between any kind of sexual contact was just gnawing away at me, and I couldn't be at ease. My own frustrations aside, I believed it was somehow indicative of his own lack of trust or other kind of deeply-rooted doubts about our relationship.

Unfortunately, rather than realise this was a serious problem, he rebuked my worries and instead

turned the problem back at me; how dare I make him feel upset? How dare I accuse him of not being committed? How dare I make him feel-at-ease and insecure about the relationship? His lack of concern at how I was feeling made it impossible to deal with this, and it was a very serious tear in our relationship.

I never spoke to anyone else about this, never. I felt there was no-one I could speak to because any friend whom I would trust and speak to in confidence was a friend of both of us, and I didn't want to introduce a feeling of 'sides' with any of our friends. I would never speak to a family member on this topic, and so I just had to let it sit - close a serious rent or even breakup.

So now I was more aware than ever of the 'inequalities' in our relationship, and for the first time in my life I realised I wasn't such a 'rock'; things that upset me or worried me really got under my skin, and avoiding conflict (because I don't like confrontations) wasn't helping either. Yet neither had voicing them, though I would be the first to admit I didn't broach the topic well and I didn't handle it well either.

I had to look at my life, our lives together, and really think was it worth giving up everything for? Because I had to realise that he really, really, really just didn't have any interest in sex. So… we patched things up (U2; "you can sew it up, but you still see the tear") and kept on going.

I realised I had a choice, and really, the choice was easy, though I knew it would have consequences that would be with me for ever. Keep our relationship but basically be celibate and give up having a sex life, or throw it all away for sex? No-brainer; nothing was worth giving everything else up for.

Was I happy with the decision? It would have been worse to break-up. Am I happy? As time goes on (we're in our mid-40s now) the whole sex topic just slowly fades away. I never try to initiate sex, it just sets off a pointless cascade of hurt and negativity. He simply isn't interested and I can't interest him.

Looking outside the relationship for sex - apparently so common in gay relationships? - is an absolute no for me; I'm either committed 100% or not at all.

Now and then I imagine what it might have been like had we had what I believe is a 'normal' sex life (sorry for using the 'N' word). And despite fleeting regrets, I feel I made the right decision; I cannot imagine life apart, nor would I want it.

Now - I don't want to offend anyone on a site based around asexuality. Really, I don't. But I have to be honest and say that until I came across this site, I never once accepted that there are people who 'simply' have no interest in sex. I never met *any* man who wasn't interested! I believed that adults with a total lack of sexual desire have some kind of issue that they need to fix; I have to say, right now, I still believe that largely to be true. Again, sorry if that offends readers on this site. I would consider myself to have a reasonably high sex drive, so that's where I'm coming from.

The conclusion i had to come to was that my partner simply wasn't interested in sex, and it wasn't anything about me, he simply doesn't want the bother of it. Sometimes when I think that thought I almost laugh and think "Am I serious?! I sound pretty naive…!" Believe me, if he was doing anything to anyone other than himself, I'd know about it by now.

This site - this make me feel that at least there are other folks, and other gay men in the same situation as myself. That itself is something, though I'm sort of beyond feeling this to be a problem anymore. I am also (slowly) learning there are people who just don't get it, and don't want to either. An outsider might say it was unreasonable of my partner to disregard the fact I had to make radical changes to my personality and my life to accommodate him; but then who hasn't? Though it comes and goes in waves, I came to the ultimate conclusion that sex isn't worth losing a life-long relationship for.

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  • 1 year later...

I just wonder if the original poster Stephen_France ever came back to this thread? I'm interested if he discovered any new understanding or came to terms with the lack of sexual contact with his partner? I realise it's been years since he posted - hopefully they were able to work things out?

My / our situation continues as before. Since I posted in August 2012 my partner was involved in a road accident that injured him very badly both physically and mentally. Physically he has mostly recovered, thank goodness. However mentally it shook him to his core, and he is still battling with the after-effects. This happened immediately after he battled (and won) a potentially life-threatening illness - a very tough time for both of us.

As time moves on, I continue to get more and more used to simply not having any sexual side to our relationship. It seems 'part of the wallpaper' and is usually not something I dwell on much any more. I say "usually" - now and again I get a little hung up about it, and I have to work on not letting myself get into a sulk.

Sometimes I can't help but feel it's unfair that I have to be the one to change myself to suit him - but there's just no dialogue between us about it any more.

Sometimes I think I could bring the topic up for discussion - but to what end? It goes nowhere, and as time goes by I feel less and less motivated anyway - it seems like I'm making a mountain out of a molehill when there are so many other actual mountains we've scaled together.

It is difficult, sometimes; the itch that can't be scratched. But it's just an itch, all the same.

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mseq1970, that is very much how I feel these days, minus the serious accidents. I am glad to hear that you are still with your partner and working through the difficulties you've both had to face. Thank you for posting.

However, I am going to lock this thread as it is very old and the OP hasn't posted in it for a long time. If anyone wants to start a new topic like this, please feel free to do so.

Lady Girl, Moderator

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