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Agendered vs. Neutrois?


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#1 chrysalide

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 01:51 AM

Just a simple question for you guys: what's the difference between being neutrois and agendered? I actually know that it's not the same thing but have trouble understnding why. Is it something like, neutrois people feel they have characteristics that belong to both genders while agendered people just feel like neither? Sorry for my ignorance, I really don't mean to offend anyone!

#2 KayleeSaeihr

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 03:05 AM

It's confusing. The way I see it is Androgyne is both genders in such a way that they exhibit the qualities of both. Neutrois is both genders in such a way that they exhibit qualities of neither. And Agendered has no gender identity as such.
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#3 Billie

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 01:55 PM

Weird, I thought agendered==neutrois
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#4 Veisha

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 08:00 PM

Weird, I thought agendered==neutrois

People have various opinions on it. See this poll: Genderless, A- gender, Neutrois, A thing about definitions.


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#5 mort paradis

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 12:43 AM

I actually asked that same question here.

Basically, agender and neutrois both mean being neither male nor female in identity*. The difference is that someone who is neutrois wants to change their body to match. Therefore, someone who is neutrois would also be agender, but someone who is agender isn't necessarily neutrois. For someone belonging to both male and female (at the same time), that is most often referred to as androgyne.

As someone who is neutrois, internally, male and female don't belong to me- I don't associate myself as having masculine or feminine qualities, that isn't the way my mind works. However, I do have a gender that tells me that this body does not compute with it- that tells me that my body should of been sexless (without any sexual characteristics), thus I do have an amount of physical gender dysphoria, which leads to a desire to change my body.


*they are both indeed possessing of gender, so while genderless may be a decent way of describing it, it isn't an accurate way of doing so.
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#6 mad_scientist

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 05:34 AM

Imagine the world is full of two types of people -- those born with blue skin, and those born with pink skin. There are intermediates, but they're rare enough for society to mostly ignore them. Blue-skinned and pink-skinned people often have slightly different characteristics and relate to each other slightly differently. Most people are reasonably comfortable in the skin they're born in (they may or may not agree with how people of their skin colour is treated; that's a separate issue).

Some people, though, are born with blue skin and feel like they should have pink skin. If this feeling is problematic enough, they may try to change their skin colour, or wear body paint, or just act like they feel they should act, which may be more associated with a pink-skinned person. Some won't go so far as to actually change their skin colour, but will prefer to be treated as a pink-skinned person. Some won't give any indication at all and just put up with feeling uncomfortable and incomplete. Some people born with pink skin also feel the same about them supposed to be having blue skin.

Some people, though, born with either pink skin or blue skin, don't feel like they should have either colour. They feel like they're supposed to have black skin (or purple skin or whatever other non-binary substitute you want to use for the analogy). In this analogy, these people are "neutrois", and their birth skin colour and colour identity do not match, even though said identity is not on the binary accepted by tradition.

Then there are other people, who don't "feel" like they should have any coloured skin. The one they have is just whatever they were born with and it doesn't bother them all that much -- their current shade is not more or less valid than another one would be (although they are more used to having the colour they have, obviously). These people are "agendered" or "nongendered".

don't take this the wrong way, but reading your post kind of makes me want to punch you in face.


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#7 Billie

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 07:06 AM

So the difference between neutrois and agendered is whether the non-gender feeling causes gender dysphoria?
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#8 mad_scientist

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 07:39 AM

So the difference between neutrois and agendered is whether the non-gender feeling causes gender dysphoria?


I think that's a good way to judge it. Neutrois identify with a non-female, non-male identity; for agendered people the concept of gender identity doesn't seem to apply. I speak only from my own limited experience, but in general I don't think agendered people feel any more neutrois than we do, say, male.

don't take this the wrong way, but reading your post kind of makes me want to punch you in face.


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#9 Jibun

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 08:29 AM

The way I see it, I take neutrois to only cover those who experience dysphoria, however I generally take agendered to refer to anyone who feels without gender, regardless of dysphoria. So I see neutrois as a particular type of agender.

Does this resonate with everyone else? :unsure:

#10 AVENCakes

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:35 PM

I think agendered and neutrois are separated by dysphoria. Those and genderless are separated by feelings of a gender identity- I think agendereds can feel they have a gender identity, just that it doesn't really effect them. I could be wrong. I only know what neutrois is- it's a gender identity characterized by feeling you're neither male nor female, but that you do have a gender.

#11 mad_scientist

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 03:59 PM

The way I see it, I take neutrois to only cover those who experience dysphoria, however I generally take agendered to refer to anyone who feels without gender, regardless of dysphoria. So I see neutrois as a particular type of agender.

Does this resonate with everyone else? :unsure:


It's all semantics to me. As one without a gender identity, I'm floundering blind here.

don't take this the wrong way, but reading your post kind of makes me want to punch you in face.


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#12 smischmal

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 08:37 PM

Well basically I think that if you don't have a gender then you are agendered, but if you also want to eliminate gender markers from your physical appearance, then you would be also be neutrois. A neutrois' identity is agendered, it is like the agendered equivilant of transsexual.
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#13 Sojourner

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 12:46 AM

I agree with most of what's been said, agender is an identity of neither male nor female, neutrois is agender plus a desire to make the body neither male nor female.
I happen to agender myself, as well as a repulsed ace, and now I'm wondering...
A lot of you said that the dysphoria for neutrois comes from wanting their body to not be male or female. I've been figuring I'm neutrois because I want a neutral body, but that's not so much because I want my body to match my gender as because I want it to not be sexual. When I said repulsed above, I meant it; sex disgusts me, and so do the sexual parts of my body. I want to get rid of them for that reason, not to make my body match my gender identity better.
So am I neutrois or am I something else? Does it matter why an agender person wants to change their body, or is it neutrois either way?
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