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Gender Stereotypes


KayleeSaeihr

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KayleeSaeihr

This post I stumbled upon (which I pasted below) made me think about gender stereotypes and how negative and destructive there are to an individual of either gender. I was wondering why they even exist, and what everyone else thought about them.

Hannah Berner's high school doesn't have a girls' tennis team, but she still gets flak for playing with the boys. Her story got us thinking about girl athletes who happen to play against the opposite sex, and the strange combination of stereotypes they face.

Berner [pictured, second from right] went 16-2 this season, and helped New York's small Beacon High School sweep the city's three major tennis tournaments. But her opponent aren't happy about a girl demonstrating such prowess. After one of her wins, the opposing coach claimed that the game was unfair "because her gender unnerved her opponents." The coach said that for a boy, playing Berner is "a lose-lose situation. If he wins, he's supposed to win. If he loses, he lost to a girl."

This statement highlights the weirdness of people's reactions to girls like Berner. Traditionally, the rationale for keeping girls out of boys' sports has been that girls aren't good enough to compete with boys. But increasingly, parents and coaches are complaining that girls are too good. Twelve-year-old Jaime Nared was ousted from a boys' team, likely because of concerns that she was outshining the boys (she was later reinstated). And when the Cheetahs, a girls' soccer team, began playing boys' teams, parents got concerned about girls beating their sons.

The whole issue is a sad example of stereotypes begetting stereotypes. If no one had ever assumed that girls would be worse at sports than boys, there would be no shame in boys getting beaten by them. But because boys are brought up to think girls are obviously lesser athletes, they are "unnerved" when a girl is actually good. The solution isn't to continue protecting boys' fragile masculinity by keeping them away from female opponents. It's to expose them to girl players more often, so that they understand that girls can be athletes in their own right, and not just wimpier versions of boys.

It's not necessarily true that all sports should be coed — women's bodies are different from men, and segregation at the professional level can make sense for some sports. A single-gender environment may be good for some girls too. Anna was impressed by "the Cheetahs' embrace of their more aggressive, competitive sides," an embrace that may be easier to develop if you're not worried about impressing boys. But in many situations, coed competition can teach boys and girls that sports aren't just a guy thing, and that winning is about using your skills, not proving your masculinity.

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Things like this piss me off so bad....Will there ever be a day when it doesn't matter at all what gender you are to play in a sports team?

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KayleeSaeihr
One's gender says nothing about them.

This is true, as individuals we know this. But society as a collective believes otherwise. I wonder why.

If society believed as we do, then I probably wouldn't feel the need to transition as much.

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When I was in high school I wasn't allowed to play basketball (which I loved), because only boys could play it, and girls played volleyball (that I dislike with passion).

What's funny, people at my age think that 'true woman has to be sexy, so wear only tight jeans, and no skirts/dresses.

I don't get those stereotypes, they're one of the biggest absurds (as all stereotypes) to me.

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When I was at school, girls weren't allowed to do woodwork or metalwork, and boys weren't permitted in the cooking and sewing classes. One boy started doing secretarial studies because his father ran a big business that he was going to take over one day, and that was a big deal for ages, although in a humorous way.

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KayleeSaeihr

I went to an all boys school and they didn't even have cooking etc until I was in Yr10, and then they were only offering it to the yr8s that year (yr 8 & 9s the next and so on), so I never got the opportunity to do it, and as I have since come to learn..I love cooking! Such a shame.

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This is an excelent thread for cisgenders. 8)

Regarding the lack of cooking classes in boys' schools--that is a good example.

Perhaps we were fortunate. I went to a regular High School in the 70's. This was also a good time for gender freedom--it was often difficult to tell the boys and girls apart, since boys rather often dressed and looked like girls, and long hair was definitely in. Anyway, my Home Ec (cooking) class was about half boys and half girls. That was cool.

Now, I work as an engineer/physicist in a field dominated by men. There are some gender stereotype issues at work that made me want to start a grumble thread about gender stereotypes in the gender forum (and one that woud be great for cisgender peeps to contribute) but someone beat me to it. :)

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In my country, we don't have classes like woodworks, cooking, etc. (I live in horrible country, yeah), but I think everyone should be able to participate in any classes they like and no one should decide it for them, especially when it depends on their sex. Many males are good at cooking and painting, but their talents may be hard to discover if they have no chance to try various things. Besides, why should one participate in classes they are totally not interested in?

And school uniforms... I can understand wearing school colours, but why can't they wear unisex uniforms or be allowed to wear uniform designed for other sex?

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Elliott Ford

When i was in high school, the girls could do dance and aerobics, gymnastics, netball and danish rounders and the boys could do football, basketball, atheletics, swimming, golf and cricket. there were lots of sports that both did but they never, ever did them together. They also occasionally tried to teach the girls something they normally taught the boys but going off the experiences of myself (assumed female at the time :) ) and my brothers, the girls got to do a wider range of sports whilst the boys were taught to be better at fewer sports. My best memories of sports there involved being given the oppurtunity to learn self-defense in extra classes :) .

The technology lessons were arranged so that the girls' classes got longer on woodwork, electronics and graphic design and less time on cooking and sewing and the boys' classes the other way round as *obviously* the girls didn't need as much teaching as far as cooking and sewing was concerned. Our teacher actually provoked me to tears many times for disbelieving my ignorance of both of this skill sets, arguing that as a 14 year girl i couldn't possibly not know how to turn on the oven, should have better abilities with the sewing machine etc. Eventually she just did everything for me cos of my disabilities but she often made me feel inadequate, not just for my disabilities but also somehow inadequate as a female because i couldn't do these female-intended things. (i knew at the time that i wasn't a girl and felt like she was pointing this out to me constantly. she wasn't but that's how it felt to me).

I got an NVQ in Childcare - there were no boys in the class.

Only one girl did GCSE Electronics...

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please delete this account

I agree with Alister.

I acknowledge that sometimes there are biological differences between sexes, but it's insignificant to me, just like gender and their stereotypes.

I guess my school must've just been pretty good for that type of stuff... in primary school all p.e was taken in mixed classes, in secondary school not so. However, eventhough girls did rounders, netball, volleyball etc (banes of my life - i can't see) and boys did cricket, stuff-i-can't-remember and rugby (though in the last year or so the girls rebelled and joined them) most other p.e lessons were mixed. Technology was mixed too, they didn't assume girls or boys were better at things etc, and were even conciderate to my disability... I thought that was how most schools worked, is this really that rare??

It is frustrating when comming against attitudes like that though, gur.

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thecynicalromantic

The way masculinity functions in society today is, in many respects, the most hilariously, pathetically mockable concept the human race has EVER come up with. It's based entirely on illusions of strength, competitiveness and self-sufficiency, and, in order to function, requires excessive amounts of never-questioned privilege, including the privilege of never having any competition whatsoever. Every time I hear about men feeling like their masculinity is threatened, or hear about men being 'feminized,' the only thing I can think of to say is "'MAN' UP AND DEAL WITH IT." Traditionally masculine men are *the* whiniest, sissiest, need-to-be-coddled-est demographic of the human race.

The only thing that stops this from being unequivocally, gut-bustingly hilarious all the time is the degree of power wielded by many of these fragile, whiny-ass sissy boys and their childishly overblown senses of entitlement, and the degree of violence they manage to enact upon people who already have actual shit learn to deal with.

Honestly. Women have had to deal with "But men are better than women at ___________" for centuries, and we've not only survived, we've challenged, learned, evolved, and worked to *get* good at everything we were told over and over and over again that we couldn't do. But one girl can hold her own at soccer and the mens poor fwagile psyches are all traumatiseded? Oh teh horrorz! Next, straight white men will only hold two-thirds of the seats on the Supreme Court! Now, if that ain't oppression...

Can we please stop coddling 'masculinity' and start holding men to decent, normal people standards? Like, value systems where you're expected to put your big girl panties on and deal with shit YOURSELF, not just tell everyone else to?

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First, someone please give the dictionary definition of cis-gender? I'm sorry, but what the heck does that word mean? I see that word around a lot and never know what it means, please?

Also... this reminds me of some "older" ladies I know...

One is a widow who's husband never allowed her to drive, now she is alone and cannot drive so she calls friends for rides everywhere. She is so stuck in these "gender" roles she is paralyzed and won't do anything. She won't call a contractor to fix stuff around the house which is falling apart around her, either. Her son is far away and she calls him for everything, for money (never learned to deal with money), to do all things in general for her... she is physically healthy but never does anything, so the lawn does not get mowed, the house doesn't get fixed up, she won't learn to drive or work a check book... it's like she's paralyzed emotionally. My mother, on the other hand, went to college when girls were not supposed to go to college, had a career, and does everything, she does her own wallpaper, paints the walls in the house, does her own stencilling, paints the floors, does basic wiring, fixes the toilet and the plumbing... she should have been a contractor. I see her friends, they go on about "I cannot do this, I cannot do that, I need my husband to do this for me, I need my son to do that for me... " and then my mother is running around fixing stuff. Once she did not like the work a contractor did, so she re-did the project herself. Another time she fixed her own Chevy when it broke down in traffic. I never cease to be amazed at how paralyzed other women are by their concept of gender and what they are not capable of doing.

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Also this post at the same site is relevant:

Being A Man: A Rough Life, Or Not Rough Enough?

That article really pissed me off.

the reporter rightly represented the book for what it was: a joke.

This writer of his little book wants to experience his manhood the rough way? I'll gladly give him that in a few kicks in the nuts.

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First, someone please give the dictionary definition of cis-gender?

From Wiki

Cisgender is an adjective used in the context of gender issues and counselling to refer to a class of gender identities formed by a match between an individual's gender identity and the behavior or role considered appropriate for one's sex. Cisgender is a "newer term" that means "someone who is comfortable in the gender they were assigned at birth." "Cisgender" is used to contrast "transgender" on the gender spectrum.

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Thank you, Kelly.

Sammie... I bet if this fool saw a mountain lion, he'd run.

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Re: "cis" again...

... hey, now wait a minute... I collect tiaras for a hobby and like pretty clothes, and I'm capable of changing a tire and running my own finances... what the heck does that make me???

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what the heck does that make me???

Awesome. 8)

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thank you...

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When I first started high school (back in the early 70's) home ec classes and shop classes were just starting to open up to allow boys in the former and girls in the latter. Peer pressure being what it was it was rare for boys to take home ec (I wasn't man enough to go for it myself and since wish I had), much more common for girls to take shop classes. The PE classes were still segregated. We had a couple of weeks each year where we played softball with co-ed teams, but otherwise it was strictly non co-ed. The girls got to do some cool things like archery and fencing. The boys only did the traditional sports (football, wrestling, track, etc.). I guess they didn't trust the boys with weapons... :lol:

The older I get the more comfortable I am with the fact that I have interests in some things guys aren't "supposed" to be interested in. I was always interested in art, but when I was a kid my father (typical 50's/60's macho outdoors type) alwyas put me down for it. That was a long time ago, though, and he's grown since then, too. But I think there are still some things he wouldn't like if he only knew...

Back to the OP - as a male I think that attitude that the girls might be "too good" and make the boys feel bad is plain stupid! By that I mean the part about making the boys feel bad. If the girls are better than the boys then someone should tell the boys (or their fathers!) to put on their big boy boxers or briefs and deal with it! And more power to the girls!

Yeah, some of these so-called manly macho men are the biggest cry-babies...

p.s Thylacine (you Tasmanian Tiger, you) - I agree with Kelly (who is also awesome!).

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KayleeSaeihr
Re: "cis" again...

... hey, now wait a minute... I collect tiaras for a hobby and like pretty clothes, and I'm capable of changing a tire and running my own finances... what the heck does that make me???

I'd second or third the Awesome! But also point out that you're not actually that uncommon, many people do things that are counter to what society says their gender should be doing. Such as men baking and women changing tyres. I think it's stupid anyone should be able to do whatever they can and/or want to do. Society be damned! :)

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I'd second or third the Awesome! But also point out that you're not actually that uncommon, many people do things that are counter to what society says their gender should be doing. Such as men baking and women changing tyres. I think it's stupid anyone should be able to do whatever they can and/or want to do. Society be damned! :)

Absolutely! Once someone asked me outright (without intending any sort of negative implication) if I was gay - because, they said, "you wear earrings and long hair, and you bake (very well, too)". (If it isn't obvious from my posts - I am male). Huh? What? I wear earrings and long hair because I like it - and people don't mistake me for a Republican :lol: , not that there's anything wrong with that! :lol:). I bake because I like to eat the kinds of things I bake. :P I would occasionally wear other stuff openly if I had more guts and less aversion to calling attention to myself, such as skirts or other "feminine" clothing and accessories.

I'm not into some of the things society seems to think guys should be into, like sports or cars. I'm not interested in going out to strip clubs. Although I do enjoy looking at and being around attractive women. I'm more into artistic pursuits and aesthetic pleasures. But then again, I'm in a male-dominated field and some male dominated hobbies. I'm always happy to see women participate in my field and in the hobbies I enjoy.

Fortunately I had some good role models growing up, especially some strong women in my life, who showed me it's okay to be yourself and not worry too much about so-called gender roles. I'm slowly becoming better at living up to that. :))

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First, someone please give the dictionary definition of cis-gender?

From Wiki

Cisgender is an adjective used in the context of gender issues and counselling to refer to a class of gender identities formed by a match between an individual's gender identity and the behavior or role considered appropriate for one's sex. Cisgender is a "newer term" that means "someone who is comfortable in the gender they were assigned at birth." "Cisgender" is used to contrast "transgender" on the gender spectrum.

Thank you for sharing this explanation. Now that I see that the prefix (cis-) carries the same basic meaning that it does in chemistry, the term makes a lot of sense.

Gender stereotypes have never made any sense to me because their only function seems to be placing illogical constraints on people. When I was in high school in the '70s, there were some rather strong stereotypes in music as well. For example, the flute and clarinette were seen as "female" instruments and the percussion section (even in the orchestra) was seen as a "male" section. :wacko:

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Thank you everybody.

Anyway, when I was a little kid, the school had segregated playgrounds, the smaller one for girls. The boys got a big open field so they could play ball. If a girl went to the boys' side to get her ball, she could get "sent to the office." But the boys often went over to the girls' side, not just to get their ball, but to be mean to the girls, and they never got into any trouble.

There was this really rotten boy who was the school bully & beat everyone up, he even beat girls up. He would just suddenly pounce on anyone. He even had a physical fight with a teacher (the teacher won that one!). The school never did much about that kid. Boys will be boys! One day the home room teacher wanted to show a film, and told me to go shut off the lights. I went to shut the lights off, and this brat got up out of his seat and slugged me for shutting the lights off, "That's my job!" because last time the teacher showed a film he turned out the lights. All they ever did was send him to counseling. Should have put him in a facility, he was so awful.

And whenever the teacher showed a film, the teacher would say, "Now I need a smart boy to run the projector," because boys are so clever with machines, aren't they? School sucks, doesn't it? They really destroy kids' souls and ruin creativity.

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perplexasex

I am a female working in the male dominated military. I know the threatened masculine syndrome all too well. I use it to my advantage to gain respect and open people's mind up. Too many times they think that a woman has to be a bitch or a whore in order to be successful in this career. I refuse to fall in either category. It's a tough role to play, but with time people have come around. It keeps me motivated to continue my efforts of being myself, instead of falling under their stereotypes. In the 10 years that I've been in, I have seen a lot of changes that allow women a less hostile working environment and the males are more inclined to keep an open mind on genders and see people for their character. Their are still some die-hard gender stereotypers, (sometimes it's the women who can't let it go and it aggravates me to no end) but in time they should be weeded out. Despite the trials I have faced, I am proud of my military and the maturity progression it has obtained. ^_^

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I was able to get my TV working again after the so called "conversion." I guess this makes me an abnormal woman... ? All the other women I know get things done by yelling, "honeeee.... !!!"

Just kidding...

I'm one of those who have a "can do" attitude.

Those who have a can't do "cuz like I'm a girl" drive me nuts.

My cousin forgets to bring cash whenever she goes places with people, is up to her arse in credit card debt, is always crashing her cars, and gets herself into all sorts of trouble, for which we must always bail her out, so she giggles, "it's cuz like... like I'm a girl!" Puke. She lets her husband handle all her money because "men have different abilities," and "we like to shop because we're the gatherers!" (hunter / gatherer theory) and "he's so smart! I'm so lucky I have him!" Puke again. So she lets him handle all her money completely, which now worries me since I have discovered through my own personal espionage that he may not be completely honest, and what will happen now to all her money, since he's so smart... ??? Oh well. If I say anything, she'll assume I'm a jealous b----, right?

So I went to Radio Shack and got some "stuff" and fixed my lousy TV. I guess I'm not "like a girl!" -- by some people's standards...

I have found out stuff about my cousin's husband, and thought about it deeply, and decided not to tell. I know -- she will think I am jealous, and besides, telling her he isn't perfect is like telling a five year old there isn't an Easter Bunny... I guess that's a problem for a whole nother essay here at Aven... Please go and see "she believes in fairy tales," if you like.

In the meantime, I shall go hide myself for the shame of being able to get my own TV working again... all by myself... oh what a horrible, bad girl I am!!!

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I am a female working in the male dominated military.

Awesome. 8)

I was in the Air Force Reserves for eight years, and spent only one year (the first year) active duty. This was over 20 years ago, when "homos" were not allowed period. Anyway, when I was stationed at Lowry, AFB in Colorado, my favorite drinking buddy was a petite Marine. Her colleagues were the macho tough kind, but the two of us were just what we were. I knew that I was gender variant (or not a perfect case of gender conformancy). I do not know about her. It was interesting (but sometimes not so fun) to watch the gender stereotypes in the service.

I know the threatened masculine syndrome all too well.

My brother was active for 24 years, and I lived with him for part of that and visited him at other times. I had a ringside view of that with him and his buds.

I use it to my advantage to gain respect and open people's mind up. Too many times they think that a woman has to be a bitch or a whore in order to be successful in this career. I refuse to fall in either category. It's a tough role to play, but with time people have come around. It keeps me motivated to continue my efforts of being myself, instead of falling under their stereotypes.

You are awesome. ;)

In the 10 years that I've been in, I have seen a lot of changes that allow women a less hostile working environment and the males are more inclined to keep an open mind on genders and see people for their character. Their are still some die-hard gender stereotypers, (sometimes it's the women who can't let it go and it aggravates me to no end) but in time they should be weeded out. Despite the trials I have faced, I am proud of my military and the maturity progression it has obtained. ^_^

Yay for progress!

Great post! ^_^

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I am a female working in the male dominated military. I know the threatened masculine syndrome all too well. I use it to my advantage to gain respect and open people's mind up. Too many times they think that a woman has to be a bitch or a whore in order to be successful in this career. I refuse to fall in either category. It's a tough role to play, but with time people have come around. It keeps me motivated to continue my efforts of being myself, instead of falling under their stereotypes. In the 10 years that I've been in, I have seen a lot of changes that allow women a less hostile working environment and the males are more inclined to keep an open mind on genders and see people for their character. Their are still some die-hard gender stereotypers, (sometimes it's the women who can't let it go and it aggravates me to no end) but in time they should be weeded out. Despite the trials I have faced, I am proud of my military and the maturity progression it has obtained. ^_^

That's really awesome. :D

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