Aromantic Asexuals on AVEN

[GirlInside]

I'd love an aromantic forum. I think I'd post there more than here.

I find that the romantics here don't understand us much better than the sexuals do. Witness that comment about how aromantic asexuals are detached, self-absorbed, and unable to feel empathy. I found it extremely offensive, especially since I have fallen in love and, during that short time, became the most detached, self-absorbed, and unempathetic (toward everyone except the object of my attraction) I have ever been in my whole life. It is partly for the loved ones in my life that I chose to remain celibate. That and the fact that I hate that whole emotional roller coaster--even having a crush feels like a sickness to me, let alone falling in love.

As for the person who said we don't have problems like romantics: Of course we have problems. Our friends leave us the minute they fall in love, because anything nonromantic is seen as dispoable. I've had close friends dump me without a word because they got into relationships. So I can understand people who wish they could fall in love. It would make us a lot less lonely.

What I'd like more than anything is someone I can be like sisters with (I have no family other than my parents). That's even less likely than an asexual romantic relationship, because even most asexuals are romantic. I've given up on the idea that such a thing will ever happen. So to dismiss our problems like that is as bad as anything the sexuals say about us--worse in some ways, because we expect others here to understand us.

Yes, we have asexuality in common, but romantics and aromantics are as different from each other as sexuals and asexuals.

So bring on the aromantic forum!

[jmerry]

Being aromantic made it easy for me to make peace with my asexuality; I really did even before I found this site and found a name for it. That means that I'm not going to talk about relationship problems; I haven't had any. Even the social pressure some speak of hasn't really appeared for me.

So, what do I come here for? There's the general feeling of a community, whether I post or not. There's how I identify to myself; having something positive to claim matters. Then, occasionally, something comes up that I can speak to- like the depression threads.

[you*hear*but*do*you*listen]

When I posted this thread, I was hoping to point out to the few romantics who I had seen express misconceived ideas that they were wrong so there could be more of an understanding between the romantics and aromantics. I really hope I haven't started the development of a schism!

[Astryda]

When I posted this thread, I was hoping to point out to the few romantics who I had seen express misconceived ideas that they were wrong so there could be more of an understanding between the romantics and aromantics. I really hope I haven't started the development of a schism!

You can't do anything about what people think if they're stuck with their opinions and aren't willing to change them even if they are wrong. You had a good intention and if there're some negative results, they are not your fault. Actually it's good you started this thread because maybe it will help AVENites to understand each others better.

[that_american_kid]

Don't I love my parents and pets? Don't I love my friends and favorite activities? Just because my love is steadier and calmer and not some wild infatuation I'm screaming about in my blog does not mean it is worthless.

Thank you!!! I'm romantic and I still think this is the best thing I've heard in ages. I will be blogging about it, just for irony's sake. :)

[AFlyingPiglet]

When I posted this thread, I was hoping to point out to the few romantics who I had seen express misconceived ideas that they were wrong so there could be more of an understanding between the romantics and aromantics. I really hope I haven't started the development of a schism!

You can't do anything about what people think if they're stuck with their opinions and aren't willing to change them even if they are wrong. You had a good intention and if there're some negative results, they are not your fault. Actually it's good you started this thread because maybe it will help AVENites to understand each others better.

I am sure that a LOT of positive things can and will come from this disussion (and from the similar threads concerning this). The ball is in our (the AVEN members) court for this to happen and for the discussion to yield positive fruit and to not turn into a negative spiral which would not benefit anyone.

AVEN should be a safe and supportive place for ALL Asexuals, whatever shape they happen to come in. We will certainly never all have the same opinion or experiences on whatever issue it is (including the threads on the Forum etc) - that's because we're all different. There's such a wide diversity even amongst, romantics, aromantics and so on.

Would it be wise, once people have had time to air their views, for a Mod or Admond to draw a line under it and make a summary of the way forward? Sorry, I know I shouldn't dictate how things should work here (and to be honest, I don't really know how these things work). Its just it would be nice that this discussion could have a fruitful outcome for AVEN generally - bearing in mind that you can't please everyone? Sorry if i've overstepped the mark but I'm just thinking aloud (well on-line actually).

[AVENCakes]

I find that the romantics here don't understand us much better than the sexuals do. Witness that comment about how aromantic asexuals are detached, self-absorbed, and unable to feel empathy.

Haven't romantics also been accused of being rude and unreliable, simply for being romantic?

I found it extremely offensive, especially since I have fallen in love and, during that short time, became the most detached, self-absorbed, and unempathetic (toward everyone except the object of my attraction) I have ever been in my whole life. It is partly for the loved ones in my life that I chose to remain celibate. That and the fact that I hate that whole emotional roller coaster--even having a crush feels like a sickness to me, let alone falling in love.

I've never gotten serious NRE. HRE (happy relationship energy- I don't know if it has an actual name)- but who doesn't? Don't people feel energy from being in happy relationships with their close friends as well? I never experienced that version of falling in love- I didn't ignore people just because the person was my partner- I put them as more important because they're also the best friend I've ever had. Even before we started dating I started putting them first because they were that important to me. I doubt everyone gets lovesick that bad- it's like everything else. Some people really do put hte sick in lovesick and can let their jobs and family suffer as well as their friends, some people are happy but remember the rest of their responsibilities and don't ditch anyone, etc.

Also- why do you identify as romantic when you can and have fallen in love? Did you stop developing romantic feelings? There's a difference between choosing to be romantically or in any other way celibate and not desiring it.

As for the person who said we don't have problems like romantics: Of course we have problems. Our friends leave us the minute they fall in love, because anything nonromantic is seen as dispoable. I've had close friends dump me without a word because they got into relationships. So I can understand people who wish they could fall in love. It would make us a lot less lonely.

And romantic aces don't have that problem? How hard is it to find the person who's either asexual, okay with being celibate, or that you can come to a happy compromise with that's also compatible with you? They're just as likely to end up being lonely. And I don't like the idea that being alone means being lonely, I'm quite fine being alone. I've never been lonely- If everyone in my life decided to leave me for a partner I'd be annoyed but fine. I wouldn't be lonely, I'd just be alone.

I've also never been dumped by someone who got into a relationship. Not that I get close to many people, but I haven't personally seen that kind of behavior. At first they might be sketchy because of NRE and all that makes it way more exciting to be with the new flame than with anyone else (even other partners, if they're poly). Actually- it's such a huge deal to romantics that I haven't seen 'NRE' outside of polyamory, because there's a serious problem of old relationships being "dumped" for the exciting new partner, who then doesn't get why their loves feel hurt and abandoned. That's not aromantic-specific. It's a problem for just about everyone, and if mroe people were aware of the problems that come from new relationship energy, maybe it wouldn't be so much of a problem.

Don't I love my parents and pets? Don't I love my friends and favorite activities? Just because my love is steadier and calmer and not some wild infatuation I'm screaming about in my blog does not mean it is worthless.

Thank you!!! I'm romantic and I still think this is the best thing I've heard in ages. I will be blogging about it, just for irony's sake. :)

Same here. Well, only, maybe I'm not romantic. But that's beyond the point. I hate it when people talk about relationships as if that means only romantic relationshpis. I complained on a roleplay forum that the admin were too busy developing relationships between the admins' characters, and one got huffy that she was the only one who was building a romantic relationship so that must be directed at her. It just aggravated me. No, if I said relationship- I meant relationship. Love hate, friendship, familial, platonic, enemies, rivals, wahtever. I did not inherently mean "romantic".

Romantic isn't the only kind of love or relationship. You can be together without being together. You can love and care for someone of any sex or gender without being in love with them, and I ahte that people act like that's not the case. I'm affectionate with people, it's who I am- most of the time that's fine, but every now and then some idiot thinks I'm coming onto them because clearly affection translates into romantic attraction.

When I posted this thread, I was hoping to point out to the few romantics who I had seen express misconceived ideas that they were wrong so there could be more of an understanding between the romantics and aromantics. I really hope I haven't started the development of a schism!

Ain't it grand how people on the internet are? I don't htink it'll be that bad- there were problems about repulsed and non-repulsed awhile ago, too, and I dont' think that caused a schism. I'm sure things'll be fine, just that poorly chosen words were said and people were offended all around. Eventually those'll smooth over and the issues will be addressed, and hopefully that'll mean everyone is more comfortable.

[Vampireseal]

I'm an aromantic asexual that's been on here a little while, and I've never felt an anti-aromantic vibe :lol: I must be very oblivious or never visit the threads where this is discussed. I generally ignore the romantic asexual section since it doesn't apply to me I suppose.

But, yeah I think it doesn't matter is you are a romantic asexual or aromantic, we all have crap we have to deal with. And ShrineMaiden, you've put up one of the best posts I've seen all week--thank you ^_^ .

Curiously, when I first joined AVEN, I was shocked to know that asexuals would be in sexual relationships or were interested in romance--I had naively assumed asexuals were all like myself. I am much wiser now, and I appreciate the diversity that is on the board.

[rotifer]

I'm an aromantic asexual that's been on here a little while, and I've never felt an anti-aromantic vibe :lol: I must be very oblivious or never visit the threads where this is discussed. I generally ignore the romantic asexual section since it doesn't apply to me I suppose.

But, yeah I think it doesn't matter is you are a romantic asexual or aromantic, we all have crap we have to deal with. And ShrineMaiden, you've put up one of the best posts I've seen all week--thank you ^_^ .

Curiously, when I first joined AVEN, I was shocked to know that asexuals would be in sexual relationships or were interested in romance--I had naively assumed asexuals were all like myself. I am much wiser now, and I appreciate the diversity that is on the board.

This said almost everything i was going to say.

I don't think there needs to be a seperate aromantic forum as most posts can be in Q&A or Murisrants, and I also would say that I hear very little anti aromantic posts. I myself have identified as an aromantic for a long time, as whilst I like the idea of romance ( love RomComs) I can not image it appling to me in any way. Though I do occasionally wonder if that is due to my very low self confinence or another issue.

I think the point to come out of this is that we should post about issues aromantics have in murisrants more and see what the responces are. If it looks like it needs seperating it can be, but i suspect that despite my best intentions I'll just lurk as always!

I realise that quoting this nest passage will make this post too long but I love it and it summarises being aromantic in a very elegant way that may eludicate thing for some romantics on the board.

So from glad to be A

it's not as if there's any gap in my life where romantic relationships could go. It's a little bit hard for me to understand how other people actually find the time to have or look for relationships, or think about them or work on them, since I can't imagine how I could fit such things into my lifestyle!

I think this is the thing that most sets me apart from other people, because love and romance are considered to be so universal. Sex is too, but being asexual is less visible than being aromantic. Unless you hang out with people who talk about sex all the time and want to know about your sex life, being asexual isn't necessarily going to come up and it's not likely to come up with people you've recently met. Never having had and not wanting a relationship, however, is much more likely to come up through casual enquiry, and it really marks you out as different. One thing that most people assume about others is that they'll share at least some of their romantic experiences... we're all supposed to have a first love, a first serious relationship, a story or two about heartbreak and betrayal. Not having those things, not just in your present, but at any time in your past, really makes you extremely different from others.

All this is sometimes almost hard for me to believe in. My life feels totally normal to me and although I'm used to hearing other people talk about their dates, relationships, marriages, sex lives, etc, some part of me still thinks of sex and relationships as fictional things, or at least as things that mainly happen in the movies and only occasionally in real life, kind of like car chases or gun battles. To think of it being almost universal for people to be experiencing and desiring those things to me is odd... but I guess that I'm the odd one out!

[Isaac]

I also love Shrine Maiden's post and Glad to be A blog. In fact, I've found more aromantic musings and rantings in asexy blogs than in AVEN.

[Shrine Maiden]

...looks like i got a cookie for my post :D

I'm an aromantic asexual that's been on here a little while, and I've never felt an anti-aromantic vibe :lol: I must be very oblivious or never visit the threads where this is discussed. I generally ignore the romantic asexual section since it doesn't apply to me I suppose.

So did I, I admit said sub-forum is not as interesting to me since I don't feel I can contribute anything more useful than platitudes. and philosophical remarks. So I might have missed any snarky posts, too. But I think it a good thing there are so many different views on asexuality. I've certainly learned some things since I came here...

I myself have identified as an aromantic for a long time, as whilst I like the idea of romance ( love RomComs) I can not image it appling to me in any way. Though I do occasionally wonder if that is due to my very low self confinence or another issue.

*sigh* and that's another weird aromantic misconception. That we hate the very sight of romance and don't want it around us. Personally, I've a soft spot for romance in books and movies but so I do for aliens and spaceships, elves and magic. In my mind they are all totally separate from my real life existence. People keep telling me that, no, I must be repressed for enjoying a fictional romance but I don't see them urging me to buy a magic wand when I read about witches.

I guess people are so used to getting sold the whole package "loveromancesex" that they don't understand they are separate words.

[Guest Heligan]

Im not sure there is an anti-aromantic feeling at AVEN, I certainly think there are different issues bought up by being romantic or aromantic... But neither lets you seemlessly fit into a social niche is you are asexual. Stereotypes tell us not only that we should be having lots of sexual attraction to our partner, but that we should have a partner (that is as much an aromantic issue as a romantc one wheen you think abot how society views 'loners'- there isnt a great lot of distinguishing going on; we are all percieved as 'too weird' to hold a relationship together).

If society realised that some of us do not feel attraction, either sexual or romantic... then some of that lack of relationship might be explained.

Lets face it many of us will end up alone whether romantic or aromantic, friendships tend to dissolve when friends get families- loneliness (in a general lack of company kind of way- this may even end up being a bigger issue for romantics in the end) is a big factor to those outside looking in - for whatever reason-

[SpirallingSnowy]

From time to time aromantics and romantics on AVEN end up clashing because of a myriad of reasons - invalidating comments. blanket statements, assumptions, narrow mindedness, not understanding the other people, outlandish statemnts, contradictions..... etc on BOTH parts. Its a 2 way street guys.

I know the romantic asexuals out number the aromantic ones here, but remember, AVEN is a forum for all asexuals. We already segregate ourselves from sexuals, and although AVEN tries to be all encompassing, there are always minorities within minorities. And Asexual Relationships is not just talking about romantic "oh my partner is so awesome, i want tob e with them forever" type relationships. ALL relationships. If aromantics feel unwelcome there, then that is its own seperate issue we need to discuss.

There have been some seriously heated discussions on this kind of stuff guys.... Just poking my head in as a mod to watch... And no im not getting on anyones case, im just observing, so people dont jump on each others throats.

SS

Musirants Mod

[Kelly]

Im not sure there is an anti-aromantic feeling at AVEN

*agrees*

There are romantic and aromantic people here, and for the most part we do get along swimmingly.

AVEN is a forum for all asexuals

^ that, too. And we have sexuals in AVEN as well. And we get along.

to Heligan and Snowy.

[Amcan]

I'm an aromantic asexual that's been on here a little while, and I've never felt an anti-aromantic vibe :lol: I must be very oblivious or never visit the threads where this is discussed. I generally ignore the romantic asexual section since it doesn't apply to me I suppose.

But, yeah I think it doesn't matter is you are a romantic asexual or aromantic, we all have crap we have to deal with.

*dittos that*

I;ve never felt marginised due to my inability to fall in love.

[GirlInside]

Also- why do you identify as romantic when you can and have fallen in love? Did you stop developing romantic feelings? There's a difference between choosing to be romantically or in any other way celibate and not desiring it.

That's like asking how someone with a sex drive or who has had sex can identify as asexual, but I'll answer anyway. Romantics enjoy falling in love and having crushes. I don't. It's like being addicted to a disgusting kind of food.

As for the person who said we don't have problems like romantics: Of course we have problems. Our friends leave us the minute they fall in love, because anything nonromantic is seen as dispoable. I've had close friends dump me without a word because they got into relationships. So I can understand people who wish they could fall in love. It would make us a lot less lonely.

And romantic aces don't have that problem? How hard is it to find the person who's either asexual, okay with being celibate, or that you can come to a happy compromise with that's also compatible with you? They're just as likely to end up being lonely. And I don't like the idea that being alone means being lonely, I'm quite fine being alone. I've never been lonely- If everyone in my life decided to leave me for a partner I'd be annoyed but fine. I wouldn't be lonely, I'd just be alone.

That's fine for people without social desires, but unfortunately, I am not one of those.

It's a problem for just about everyone, and if mroe people were aware of the problems that come from new relationship energy, maybe it wouldn't be so much of a problem.

But most people don't think of it as a problem. They think of it as the way things are and should be. I've talked to romantic sexuals about it, and they don't think there is a problem. They think my only solution is to go out and "get some."

[AVENCakes]

That's like asking how someone with a sex drive or who has had sex can identify as asexual, but I'll answer anyway. Romantics enjoy falling in love and having crushes. I don't. It's like being addicted to a disgusting kind of food.

I still don't fully understand the difference. That sounds more like a sexual who doesn't want to be sexual and doesn't enjoy feeling sexual attraction than someone who doesn't feel sexual attraction at all.

After all, falling in lov eisn't (to my knowledge) a conscious act. I thought it was a sign of romantic attraction for the person you've fallen in love with, however you felt about it. You can choose to have, even enjoy having, sex without feeling sexually attracted to the person in question. I wasn't aware you could fall in love or get romantic crushes without being romantically attracted.

It's a problem for just about everyone, and if mroe people were aware of the problems that come from new relationship energy, maybe it wouldn't be so much of a problem.

But most people don't think of it as a problem. They think of it as the way things are and should be. I've talked to romantic sexuals about it, and they don't think there is a problem. They think my only solution is to go out and "get some."

Just because most don't think it's a problem means it isn't. I bet most people don't think expecting someone to want sex is a problem (although altogether mindboggling, why is it anyone's business if a single person doesn't want sex- and if they aren't single, why is it anyone but their partner(s)' business?) and that it's the way things are and should be- but most people here would agree it can be a pretty big problem.

[ThePieMaker]

This thread makes me sad.

We're all asexual, and, even more important, human.

Why do people focus so much on differences instead of looking at what we all have in common?

[reverse_thrust]

This thread makes me sad.

We're all asexual, and, even more important, human.

Why do people focus so much on differences instead of looking at what we all have in common?

Are you implying that we eradicate bigotry? How would our wonderful bigoted politicians ever be elected to office? Damn you revolutionary hippie types!

/sarcasm

Seriously, I think it just makes it easier to downplay one own's flaws if one thinks as other people as fundamentally different. Throughout history there seems to be this pervasive mindset among the majority about what constitutes the "perfect" human, most notably with racism and sexism, and now we've moved on to debating sexuality issues. You'd hope that, eventually, the majority will have a eureka moment and realize that such things are nonsense, but I don't foresee this happening in the near future.

[hyenaboy]

It does go both ways. I read a post a few months back that suggested that people who've just been dumped shouldn't be upset about it because they knew what they were getting into when they started dating. That was fairly offensive to me.

...Also, I think that having both of the quotes in the original post taken out of context like that is making them look a lot worse than they actually were. Neither were intending to be "anti"-aromantic; they were discussing whether or not the entire asexual population could be correctly represented by the AVEN poll... looking for a reason that aromantics might be less likely to seek out AVEN.

The first asexual I ever met is a friend of mine, and this was long before I identified as asexual myself. She's aromantic. Since I figured myself out, I've never spoken about asexuality with her or suggested she come to AVEN simply because I honestly don't think she'd be interested. The fact that she isn't interested in anyone isn't a huge deal to her.

Personally, I sometimes wish I could be aromantic, because I think it would fit more naturally with being asexual. I'd just rather not have interest in anyone than have only romantic for someone who wants sexual things from me.

Of course we have problems. Our friends leave us the minute they fall in love, because anything nonromantic is seen as dispoable. I've had close friends dump me without a word because they got into relationships.

That happens to everyone. It isn't because you're nonromantic or they think you're disposable. It's because they're more concerned with their SO than anyone else, especially when the relationship is just starting.

[you*hear*but*do*you*listen]

...Also, I think that having both of the quotes in the original post taken out of context like that is making them look a lot worse than they actually were. Neither were intending to be "anti"-aromantic; they were discussing whether or not the entire asexual population could be correctly represented by the AVEN poll... looking for a reason that aromantics might be less likely to seek out AVEN.

Trust me, the quotes in context were still very upsetting, at least to me (I literally almost started to cry). I don't think the people who posted those things meant to be anti-aromantic, but they seemed maybe a little ignorant of how aromantics (or at least some aromantics) actually work; what was said certainly may be true about some aromantics, but it seemed like there were blanket statements being made about all aromantics--those blanket statements definitely don't apply to everyone. Whether or not they were discussing why aromantics may be underrepresented on AVEN, the way they implied that being aromantic was easier or even less AVEN-worthy than being romantic really struck a nerve.

[sonofzeal]

I sincerely apologize for my quote in that first post. I didn't mean to undermine Aromanticism, or imply that it's "less AVEN-worthy" (it isn't - everything connected with asexuality is fully worthy of being here, including aromantics, sexuals, nonlibidoists, and grey-a's). I didn't expect it to bother anyone, and didn't understand at the time that it was bothering you. I'm willing to go back and remove that comment if it would make you feel better.

There is absolutely no reason why aromantics shouldn't post, even if some might not choose to. (is that better?)

[you*hear*but*do*you*listen]

I sincerely apologize for my quote in that first post. I didn't mean to undermine Aromanticism, or imply that it's "less AVEN-worthy" (it isn't - everything connected with asexuality is fully worthy of being here, including aromantics, sexuals, nonlibidoists, and grey-a's). I didn't expect it to bother anyone, and didn't understand at the time that it was bothering you. I'm willing to go back and remove that comment if it would make you feel better.

There is absolutely no reason why aromantics shouldn't post, even if some might not choose to. (is that better?)

Apology accepted, sonofzeal.

[henrik]

Why do people focus so much on differences instead of looking at what we all have in common?

...because sometimes you have to do that to create yourself an identity. I find these kinds of comments very strange (coming from everyone in this and other threads, not just you GoAllyGoGo, I'm just quoting you because yours was the latest one). It is given that of course we should try to get along and concentrate on the issues we all have in common whenever it's appropriate.

But we're also different and that's what makes us human. If we were to take this line of thinking to the extreme, why do we have AVEN boards, then? Why don't we just have one big message board for all people to talk about only the things we have in common. There are forums like that, but we still spend time in this highly specialized board that is entirely based on one aspect that we do not share with the majority of people. The whole idea of AVEN is to talk about issue we don't have in common with most people. Why do we do this instead of looking at what we have in common with the said majority?

In the thread where I proposed a separate forum for aromantic issues, I got a lot of comments about how segregation from the main community is bad and how people who are not aromantic can bring a different perspective to the topics. While I do agree with both of those points completely, I still fail to see the relevance of them to the actual topic. We are already segregated just by being on AVEN and not on the mystical all-encompassing message board where everyone just tries to get along, and probably being too afraid to actually say anything because of it.

[ThePieMaker]

My point was that as this community, why are we focusing so much on these differences? We are a community we need to act like one, not further split ourselves up. We're small enough as it is. We need to stand by each other as a community no matter the sexual or romantic orientation.

There have been rude comments on both sides, just like there have been rude comments on both sides of asexual/sexual. Get over it. There are going to be people who have some weird animosity to the other side, but don't let them ruin what for most people isn't a big deal. We're all different, don't let those differences come between why we all came here.

And, henrik, what was so strange about my comment? Is it really weird that I think we should stick together?... oh, my bad.

[henrik]

There have been rude comments on both sides, just like there have been rude comments on both sides of asexual/sexual. Get over it.

That I agree with completely. No reason to be over-sensitive to one direction or the other. I'm willing to admit that I take things way too seriously at times.

And, henrik, what was so strange about my comment? Is it really weird that I think we should stick together?... oh, my bad.

I didn't mean it that way. Of course we need to stick together as much as possible and try to get along. But I think we also have to be open to the possibility that sometimes a little distance is the way to go for the sake of everyone's comfort.

[chipmunkgirl]

I think the problem, most of the time, is that it is so much easier to be rude when you don't understand another person's perspective. If you are romantic, you don't have the same perspective as an aromantic (and vice-versa)- and so you can say things that you don't think are offensive when they are to someone with a different perspective.

I identify as an aromantic, and the most offensive and hurtful comments I have ever gotten on AVEN were from two other aromantics. Because, for crying out loud, we identified as aromantic for different reasons.

In general, AVEN is very welcoming and supportive. :cake: to everyone for that! But even the most open-minded board will have its occasional tiffs. Personally, I don't see a need for an aromantic forum... seeing as both groups do face a lot of the same issues. But, who knows- could be interesting ;)

*you*hear, I think it was a good idea to bring up the issue- it reminds us to be aware that what we say can offend other people.

[AVENCakes]

...because sometimes you have to do that to create yourself an identity.

You don't have to create an identity based on "you're different and that makes you inferior" or playing "who faces the most discrimination", it also doesn't have to be a reason to create a rift. I'm neutrois, that's a big part of my identity along with struggling to find a pronoun and deal with a highly gendered language, as is transitioning. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't say that a non-op or a binaried gender or any other non-binary doesn't "deserve" to post on forums, or suggest that I have it worse. Everyone has problems- a lot of problems one group faces can be shared with other groups. On a gender forum, I don't think I've even touched the neutrois area in a long, long time because a lot of the problems I face as a neutrois most transpeople of any gender face- and even some cispeople do. I'm neutrois, that makes me different, it's my identity. I don't feel the need to say I need a separate forum from all other gender identities or that non-neutrois people don't have the same problems as me.

In the thread where I proposed a separate forum for aromantic issues, I got a lot of comments about how segregation from the main community is bad and how people who are not aromantic can bring a different perspective to the topics. While I do agree with both of those points completely, I still fail to see the relevance of them to the actual topic. We are already segregated just by being on AVEN and not on the mystical all-encompassing message board where everyone just tries to get along, and probably being too afraid to actually say anything because of it.

But we're not segregated. Sexuals come to AVEN, those that are interested beyond their own relationship stick around and post in as many and as varied places as any asexual. A lot of people said they'd be uncomfortable posting or wouldn't think to post in an aromantic-specific area because it doesn't apply to them- and that's the difference. The nature of AVEN is that it's asexual-specific, yes, but that doesn't mean we need aromantic, Xromantic, demisexual, demiromantic, grey-ase, grey-aromantic, "I don't identify as romantic or aromantic", etc. specific forums just because we have an asexual-specific forum.

Also, a lot of problems that asexuals of any subgroup face, the majority of asexuals face (I'm still waiting for even one problem aromantics commonly face that romantics don't)- that's why we have a forum for asexuality. Why we don't have separate forums for separate subgroups is because they're still joined by that one thing and most problems that one subgroup faces are also faced by another one- so you get unique views by getting input from all of them, and making forums for every single subgroup would get exhausting to keep up with, it seems like new labels are popping up daily.

[henrik]

...because sometimes you have to do that to create yourself an identity.

You don't have to create an identity based on "you're different and that makes you inferior" or playing "who faces the most discrimination", it also doesn't have to be a reason to create a rift.

Where on earth did you get the idea that that has anything to do with anything I said? I hate playing either of those cards and I'd rather amputate my foot before I'd sink that low in any discussion. But we're different. We're all different, just deal with it. That's the only thing I was referring to in my post.

But we're not segregated. Sexuals come to AVEN, those that are interested beyond their own relationship stick around and post in as many and as varied places as any asexual.

Just like romantics could come to the aromantic forum. I don't understand this idea that it would somehow be any more seperate if we had our of forum than any of the forums and subforums in here. How many times do I have to repeat this blindingly obvious point before people understand it?

But at this point, I'm really not campaining for an aromantic forum since the majority of even the aromantics in here think it's not necessary. So as far as I'm concerned, that part of the discussion can be buried.

[AFlyingPiglet]

I think the problem, most of the time, is that it is so much easier to be rude when you don't understand another person's perspective. If you are romantic, you don't have the same perspective as an aromantic (and vice-versa)- and so you can say things that you don't think are offensive when they are to someone with a different perspective.

Yep, I would agree with this - mind you, as an Aromantic, I can only see it from MY perspective. It is easy to assume we (whether romantic or aromantic) are viewing things from an Objective viewpoint when maybe its not to others (in spite of good intentions).

I identify as an aromantic, and the most offensive and hurtful comments I have ever gotten on AVEN were from two other aromantics. Because, for crying out loud, we identified as aromantic for different reasons.

I've read comments on thread's (between Aromantics) that would fit this description - defining as Aromantic for different reasons (which is fine - according to the aven wikipedia) :) At times it has almost seemed as if there is a 'hierarchy' of Aromantics - "I'm more Aromantic than you are .... sort of thing". Do we have this sort of 'issue' amongst the Romantics????

Whilst there are clearly similarities between all Asexuals, these threads about Aromantic Asexuals/Romantic Asexuals seem to point out that there can be a vast difference between the Romantics and Aromantics - even if its in the way they view the discussions on Aven. Whilst we need join together in what we have in common, there's nowt wrong with diversity either. :D