Setting the ball rolling...

[sassyeggs]

Gender confuses me no end. My brain doesn't get it, I do not wish to be refered to as female, I love being mistaken for a guy, but I don't wish to be refered to as male.

I bind my breasts every day, if I remember, or even think that I have these breasts I get quite upset. I'd love to get top surgery, or my breasts reduced so I can bind them better, but because I'm not trans, I don't know if this is possible.

I really want a beard, beards I feel do suit me, but I wouldn't want to be considered or live as a "man". See this is all very confusing, even I don't get it.

My Mum doesn't understand, I'm unsure if I should explain these things to her or whether it will just give her more amnunition when she's having a bad day. She notices I bind my breasts, and calls me out on it, telling me I am a woman and have to deal with that. I guess it's hard for people to get. And even harder to try and explain.

Well this is my general story and input. Feel free to share yours.

[Næt.]

I don't even know what gender is :)

[sassyeggs]

yay. we're off to a confusing start.

[Parth]

We could try to define gender til the cows come home, but there will always be exceptions. Gender truly is confusing. I would say it's purely social but I know that female and male brains are wired differently, plus there really wouldn't be transgendered people either if that was the case.

You win again, gender!

[Queue]

I don't have any idea what gender is either, honestly. I don't feel "male" at all, but I really, really don't feel female at all. (I'm a bio-fem.)

If there wasn't so much to complicate it (not actually being trans, unsupportive family/friends, medical concerns) I'd do top surgery in a heartbeat. I don't bind, persay, but I wear a frogbra which has a similar effect and wear almost exclusively male clothing. I'd like a male/unisex haircut, but again with the lack of support... Someday, maybe.

Gender confuses me. It causes me more problems than my asexuality, by far.

[sassyeggs]

Gender confuses me. It causes me more problems than my asexuality, by far.

Word.

[heatdissipation]

I find gender issues confusing.

[Beardless]

I don't mind my body. It's my body. I'd be just as unhappy turning up in a male body as a female one that wasn't this one. My problem with my body is that it's obviously female - height, breasts, stupid voice. Well, I don't wear high shoes - I like sturdy boots, and children's trainers (there are advantages to having this sized feet), and there isn't much I can do with this mouth of mine, but I do wear a sports bra to reduce the appearence of my breasts about half the time, generally days I'm going out.

Even my mum - who just doesn't get this sort of stuff - has reffered to me (years ago) when talking with my granma (they thought I was asleep) as "mostly male". I feel slightly more male than female, yes, but I feel much more neither than either of them. I think my mum say that I was not particulary female and thought there was only one alternative.

I like confusing people. I always have. I like being considered as male by complete strangers because of this, mostly because as soon as I open my mouth, they're likely to get confused. I don't mind being considered male. I don't mind being considered female. I don't mind much. But I'm mopstly not either of those.

[thecynicalromantic]

I don't think you have to be trans to get breast reduction surgery. I don't know if there's some minimal size they won't go below unless you're transitioning or whatever (although that sounds really, really dumb to me), but in general, breast reduction is a common plastic surgery practice, it's the opposite of breast augmentation. A lot of women get it; it can be done either as pure cosmetic surgery or as a more curative/corrective/whatever the word is medical procedure in women for whom the weight distribution can cause back problems.

I think it's damn expensive, though.

[Paradise_Paradise]

I don't think you have to be trans to get breast reduction surgery. I don't know if there's some minimal size they won't go below unless you're transitioning or whatever (although that sounds really, really dumb to me),

I've done a little bit of reading about it myself. I seem to get the impression that usually the doctors advise not too drastic a reduction, but if you were insistent, whether they would flat-out refuse or not, I don't know.

For mastectomy I think you probably would have to prove that you were either transitioning or had a very strong medical reason for it :( (such as some women with a sky-high likelihood of future breast cancer have voluntarily had it done).

[fix]

I'm not particularly thrilled to be a female either. I get mistaken for a guy some times but that doesn't really bother me. I wear really neutral clothes all the time. I don't like being reminded that there are two genders (not trying to offend any trans) or that I belong to one of those groups. It reminds me of how I felt before I found the term asexual. I felt like I HAD to be straight or gay, I hated being reminded of it because I knew I didn't belong to either.

SO LETS MAKE A NEW GENDER!!

It shall be: Androgynous. Andie for short.

all are welcome.

On a related note I'm having breast reduction surgery soon to remedy a back problem I've been having for quite some time now. In Canada you can have this procedure done but it does cost a bit of money and like any surgery there are risks involved. Might be the same in other countries, likely worth looking into.

[sassyeggs]

On a related note I'm having breast reduction surgery soon to remedy a back problem I've been having for quite some time now. In Canada you can have this procedure done but it does cost a bit of money and like any surgery there are risks involved. Might be the same in other countries, likely worth looking into.

I should really go to the doctors, my breats cannot be good for my back. I hate talking about it but my boobs are indeed rather huge. :redface: *dies a bit* I might be able to get it on the NHS. not sure if I should explain about the binding, it can't be healthy for my body, but I wouldn't want them to try and "cure" me or whatever. The thing is the expense, (without NHS help) I hardly have two pennies to rub together.

I'll join your Andie group. I'll bring some and Moths.

[sassyeggs]

Oh and thanks for the musings of others about breast reductions and such. I need to seriously try and sort something out.

[TTauri]

I am genderqueer and yay, proud of it! I am who I am by the way I feel when I wake up in the morning. I (reluctantly) accept the body of a female but have never classed myself as a girl or woman. I don't need to bind, thanks to genetics, and I prefer to wear men's clothes of jeans, trainers and sweatshirts, except in summer. When it's warm enough, I'm out in vests, and for being female, I have naturally well-defined shoulder and arm muscles. I suppose it's this part of me that makes me feel different; I can be more obviously female then, and yet...

On a related note I'm having breast reduction surgery soon to remedy a back problem I've been having for quite some time now. In Canada you can have this procedure done but it does cost a bit of money and like any surgery there are risks involved.

All the best to you through the op and recovery!

[Paradise_Paradise]

I should really go to the doctors, my breats cannot be good for my back. I hate talking about it but my boobs are indeed rather huge. :redface: *dies a bit* I might be able to get it on the NHS. not sure if I should explain about the binding, it can't be healthy for my body, but I wouldn't want them to try and "cure" me or whatever. The thing is the expense, (without NHS help) I hardly have two pennies to rub together.

Sassy, if you can tell your doctor that they're causing you significant physical problems (discomfort, back pain) then you might well be able to go the NHS route. :) I've also read about women who were able to secure an op because of the psychological trauma their size was causing them - in the sense of being very embarrassed, feeling like people couldn't even speak to them without staring at their breasts, etc. Perhaps if your doctor wouldn't be very sympathetic about gender issues, you could play those angles up to him.

[fix]

Aww thanks TTauri!

I agree with Paradise_Paradise. There are many valid reasons to have a reduction done (and a lot of invalid reasons to have ones breasts enlarged...yet that seems to be so acceptable <_< ) No harm in talking to your doctor about it (I do feel your pain in having to address the issue, can be quite embarrassing but you'll get over it quickly, I did!)

[KayleeSaeihr]

Gender is a combination of two things; a social construct based on the assumption of a binary physical sex, and an identity based on the social construct.

[suburbanmuse]

I bind my breasts every day, if I remember, or even think that I have these breasts I get quite upset. I'd love to get top surgery, or my breasts reduced so I can bind them better, but because I'm not trans, I don't know if this is possible.

I tried that only once or twice, quite a while ago when mine were smaller than they are now. I really liked the effect but it seemed like a ton of work to do on a regular basis. Do you find it to be a major pain?

Gender has always been a sort of confusing issue for me too. There are times when I like to doll myself up, but I don't really think it has to do with my gender. I really wish that my body wasn't obviously female. And I've always always been most attracted to people who are androgynous. Go Andies!!

[AVENCakes]

Gender isn't in the binary, you can identify as neither or both, or sometimes as one and sometimes the other, and identity doesn't mean youw ant the same thing as someone else iwth the same one. It's a bit harder to be seen as non-binary, though.

I think I might be the same. I want these stupid things on my chest OFF. I want my uterus out, I don't want to be seen as a girl, and I want to grow facial hair so I can properly shave. But... it feels weird being seen as a boy. I call myself neutrois, mostly because that's what Iw ant below, and it feels right for me.

I tried that only once or twice, quite a while ago when mine were smaller than they are now. I really liked the effect but it seemed like a ton of work to do on a regular basis. Do you find it to be a major pain?

I got a binder from underworks- it takes less time to slip on than it took for me to try and wrestle on one of those monstrous torture devices people label "bras". http://ftm.underworks.com/ They're for FtMs, but still work.

[Elliott Ford]

I'm FtM. Kinda.

I feel rather male, i like being a boy. i'm identifying myself as male, wear guy's clothes, go by a boy's name and strongly insist on male pronouns. I'm getting a chest binder, i've cut of all my hair and i think sometime in the future i might actually want to start taking testerone to sort it out so that i look like a man too.

BUT what i feel much more strongly is that i'm NOT FEMALE. At all, under any circumstances.

i refuse to be referred to as female, will no longer wear women's clothing.

BUT i don't conform to the "gender role" of either gender. i refuse to. And i don't really have any problem being female-bodied. i actually slightly resent the fact that i feel the need to bind my chest etc. in order to be treated the way i wish to be treated. I want to be treated as though i'm male.

eventhough i'm also quite indifferent to gender. i'd love it if gender didn't exist, then i could just be me and be treated as me and my body wouldn't even come into it.

i feel mainly male (male enough to want to be treated as male) but also up to 40% agendered because i also don't understand gender. This probably only really makes sense to me.

[Geoff Vader]

I'm dreading the day I have to start shaving.

I never want any facial hair. At all. Ever.

And it would be nice to not have...erm...genitalia...considering I can't even refer to them without feeling uncomfortable.

I would still want to be referred to as male though, it'd be a bit weird for people to start calling me she, and I do get slightly annoyed when people mistake me for a girl...probably 'cause I'm used to being male though >_>

*joins the Andies, 'cause it seems to fit*

[AVENCakes]

I'm dreading the day I have to start shaving.

I never want any facial hair. At all. Ever.

And it would be nice to not have...erm...genitalia...considering I can't even refer to them without feeling uncomfortable.

I would still want to be referred to as male though, it'd be a bit weird for people to start calling me she, and I do get slightly annoyed when people mistake me for a girl...probably 'cause I'm used to being male though >_>

*joins the Andies, 'cause it seems to fit*

You feel you're just as male as female (or thereabouts), because that's more what androgyne is. Not all non-binary genders fall into the "androgyne" category.

[sunny_girl]

Personally, I know where I stand with my gender [though admittedly I went through a stage of great penis envy one~] though my current partner is a very different story. When we got together she was a bisexual girl, and now, a few years down the line, she's a started acting and dressing more like a man [breast-binding, boys clothes] and has recently decided that she does actually want to be a man.

I suppose as I defined myself as homoromantic, I was pretty thrown to start with when she confessed her new status as FtM, but in the end, I don't really care about her gender; I'm going to support her no matter what. It's just all very difficult to explain to people, especially when they say: "You said you were gay! If she's a guy, that means you're straight! You can't change your mind!" Well, actually, I can change my mind about my sexuality, just like she can change her mind about her gender. :/

...oh my, it sound so confusing when I have to type it out.

[AVENCakes]

Well, actually, I can change my mind about my sexuality, just like she can change her mind about her gender. :/

I don't like that wording, but beyond that- you're right. You can update your orientation when you realize that the label just isnt' right anymore, just like he can come to terms with who he is. The question is- do you really identify as homoromantic, or are you saying "I'm a guy dating another guy, I must be gay"?

[sunny_girl]

Well, actually, I can change my mind about my sexuality, just like she can change her mind about her gender. :/

I don't like that wording, but beyond that- you're right. You can update your orientation when you realize that the label just isnt' right anymore, just like he can come to terms with who he is. The question is- do you really identify as homoromantic, or are you saying "I'm a guy dating another guy, I must be gay"?

Actually, I'm a girl. xD; And my parter is, biologically, a girl. So people naturally assumed I was gay, and I pretty much went along with it. I used to get emotionally attached to girls, but now that my partner is FtM, I found that gender doesn't really matter. *shrugs* So, maybe I'm not homo-romantic. It doesn't really matter~

[AVENCakes]

Actually, I'm a girl. xD; And my parter is, biologically, a girl. So people naturally assumed I was gay, and I pretty much went along with it. I used to get emotionally attached to girls, but now that my partner is FtM, I found that gender doesn't really matter. *shrugs* So, maybe I'm not homo-romantic. It doesn't really matter~

Heh, sorry about htat- I generally assume that someone who says they're gay while dating a guy is male (and while dating a girl is female. While dating a genderqueer... I just roll a dice). It really doesn't matter, people put too much importance on labels.

[sassyeggs]

Since posting this I've realised a little bit more about myself. I feel a lot more comfortable with being identyfied as male. I have therapy coming up where I will discuss this. I would go all out and say I'm trans but I'll give it some more time and though and talking through with a specialist will hopefully help.

I have been refering to myself as male on this site for a few months now, which may confuse people. There is also the "Drag Thread" haha which may also confuse people, but I'd like those to know I would rather you refered to me as male than female. Thank you.

I have yet to tell my parents, I don't know how I'm going to go about it. I'm dreading the thought, my Mum is less than impressed with the fact I bind my breasts. One day she told me that I have to accept I'm a woman. Just accept it. I don't want to hurt them, but it's going to happen. They've been going through a tough time, My Mum lost her Dad not long ago and she's still shakey from that. I know this news would kill her. I am unsure how my Dad will take this, I can't tell what my Dad is thinking. My sister would be confused and put out but would come round. I'm pretty sure my Nan will be the coolest about it, as my Nan is the coolest. I know I'd be a lot happier being my "true" self, that means beard ;). Though I'm still really confused about all this gender stuff, and prefering to be seen as male is the same as being male? Though what is "being male". Arghhh *head explodes*

[Ninny]

Good luck sas :)

I'm glad you've managed to figure yourself out a little more :)

If you ever wanna talk i'm always around.

x x

[sassyeggs]

Thank you Ninny Means a lot.

[AVENCakes]

Congratulations on coming out to yourself and accepting who you are! :) It's always the most difficult task. I don't know what you can do about your parents, either. If you live with them- I'd suggest figuring out or trying to move out before taking any serious steps. Sometimes people will surprise you- but sometimes not. My mom never noticed I bound, or willed herself not to, but my male clothes tend to go missing. She stole my boxers when I first got tehm >_< My dad was really fine with it, though,a nd is very supporting. So there's hope even if your mom's against it. A lot of times it seem slike the same-sex (not gender, sex) parent is more against it because it can feel like you're rejecting them and tehir gender.

I hope the gender therapy helps. ^^