Christianity vs. Asexuality

[BalladOfJayne]

There are a few stories and messages in the Bible (I.E. Sodom/Gammora) that portray homosexuality in a very negative light.

You know, it's funny to me that people always use that story in Christian circles to point out that God isn't on board with gay sex (as opposed to the actual verse in Leviticus or wherever that says it). For as long as I can remember, I've always looked at that story and thought, "Oh hey! A town of pedophilic, murdering, rapists! No wonder they were obliterated." I always figured that they were a bunch of evil bastards who were so morally decrepit that they were just raping everyone- men, angels (also males), Lot's daughters, whoever's handy. I never even considered homosexuality as the reason wanted to kill them until I heard someone else say it. I like my version better.

I checked the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It says that a marriage requires children because thats supposedly the point,

I'm taking an art history course in university right now and just about all the art we look at has it's roots in Catholicism. It's surprising how much importance has been placed on spawning offspring (sorry, being fruitful and multiplying) over the years. It's nowhere in the Bible that it's wrong to not want sex, but ever since the early days of Christianity procreation seems to have been set up as one of the major...commandments, I guess of Christian doctrine. I think it boils down to that up until a little over a century ago, mortality rates were insane, especially those of children. Church authorities had a lot of power in political affairs and wanted things to stay that way. So they told their supporters (Christians) that Jesus said to get married and have lots of babies, so you damn well better start having sex and raising up more supporters for us right now or else you're a bad Christian. It's not a matter of sinning, it's just an outdated bid for power that many people don't bother to question and often interpret as a sacred instruction from God.

[Cerberus]

Well the supposed reason is Genesis and the cultural ideas of marriage and kids being a "given".

The real reason is that the argument against homosexuality is a lie and what is being attacked is being "different". Furthermore, there is a large "Christian" attack on the idea of consent, that two people can fall in love and have sex on their own terms rather than arbitrary terms set by a higher power. These particular sects also play on the conflict this creates in older and especially younger members to make them more willing to follow seemingly odd rules with little justification of the Bible. The parishioners see the struggle as holding them down whereas the pastors pretend they're heterosexually perfect.

Asexuals throw a monkey wrench in that. First off, we're clearly "different", we can't be threatened with Hell for being "sexual deviants" without admitting the lie used against everyone else, and worst of all, we win their rigged game. The point of the game is that you win by lying. The pastor says he's pure and no one can question, thus everyone is less pure than the pastor. If you walk in more pure than the religious head with absolutely no effort on your part and no means by which you can be forced into marriage and responsibilities before developing as a person, you not only reveal the lie, but become the new purest person which can't be allowed.

Note, this is not applicable to actual Christians who follow the actual Bible and the actual ideas and philosophies of Christ. But for those who misuse his name to decry sexuality as the greatest sin, we upturn their tea party by existing and no one likes some "othered" freak doing that. The point of the scam is no-win. If we can walk in and win the rigged game, they have to start from scratch or admit that they're actively trying to stunt human maturity and growth in order to gain power.

Again, not most Christianity, only the whiny branches.

And from what I hear from asexuals in and around the Church, your story is not at all uncommon.

Though, I'll find out how universal it is if my best friend's sister gets the courage to admit her homosexuality. Me and my best friend have a pact to do a three-way outing when that occurs to see if we can make his mom's head literally explode.

[BadFugu]

Note, this is not applicable to actual Christians who follow the actual Bible and the actual ideas and philosophies of Christ. But for those who misuse his name to decry sexuality as the greatest sin, we upturn their tea party by existing and no one likes some "othered" freak doing that. The point of the scam is no-win. If we can walk in and win the rigged game, they have to start from scratch or admit that they're actively trying to stunt human maturity and growth in order to gain power.

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." --Gandhi

[Jkaufman]

That quote.......is.......amazing........

[sonofzeal]

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." --Gandhi

"Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried." - G.K. Chesterton

[AVENCakes]

You know, it's funny to me that people always use that story in Christian circles to point out that God isn't on board with gay sex (as opposed to the actual verse in Leviticus or wherever that says it). For as long as I can remember, I've always looked at that story and thought, "Oh hey! A town of pedophilic, murdering, rapists! No wonder they were obliterated." I always figured that they were a bunch of evil bastards who were so morally decrepit that they were just raping everyone- men, angels (also males), Lot's daughters, whoever's handy. I never even considered homosexuality as the reason wanted to kill them until I heard someone else say it. I like my version better.

That's my big thing, too. I don't know any homosexuals who walk around demanding to be allowed to rape strangers, or any that are rapists in any sense of the term. If that story was "homosexuality is bad", then why didn't they just have a gay guy chatting up another guy, the angel see it and then destroy the town? I have heard about the one in Leviticus, which isn't far from the one against shell fish, which is why I support "No On Shrimp".

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." --Gandhi

I'm the same way. Except for the believing he's the savior or whatever- I think I wouldn't mind being Christian, it's just the way everyone takes his teachings that I can't do.

[Ephilei]

Playing the devil's advocate . . .

Asexuality itself is not sin (only action or inaction are sins), but embracing asexuality (ie, refusing to have sex) is sin. In Orthodox Judaism, the first commandment is to have children and refraining from sex refuses that commandment (thus the negativity about barren women). Sex is also a good gift from God to be enjoyed and refusing that gift is rejecting God. Likewise, having children is also a gift.

Even apart from sin, asexuality is "not good" because it prevents being fully human. Part of being human is enjoying sex and a sexual human will enjoy life more than an asexual. Compare to blindness, etc. Asexuality is part of fallen humanity caused by Eve/Adam's original sin.

However, given the Bible was written in such anti-sex cultures, it has many anti-sex passages. I have wondered if most Christians believe Jesus was asexual since they never talk about Jesus' sexuality. Since he was celibate, and we are supposed to be like-Christ, it's a win for asexuals.

[andrew_w]

Saying that asexuality is wrong because sex is a gift from God makes no sense to me. Just because it's a gift, doesn't mean it's a gift given to everyone. It's not one given to asexuals, that's for sure.

[Sally]

In Orthodox Judaism, the first commandment is to have children and refraining from sex refuses that commandment (thus the negativity about barren women).

The first commandment is "I am the Lord your God." It says nothing about having children.

[ProdeFemme]

Playing the devil's advocate . . .

Asexuality itself is not sin (only action or inaction are sins), but embracing asexuality (ie, refusing to have sex) is sin. In Orthodox Judaism, the first commandment is to have children and refraining from sex refuses that commandment (thus the negativity about barren women). Sex is also a good gift from God to be enjoyed and refusing that gift is rejecting God. Likewise, having children is also a gift.

Now I'm not a wealth of knowledge on every religion on the planet, but I'm siding with Sally here; I'm pretty sure the commandments are the same across the board and that isn't even close to the first one. Or any of the other 9 to be honest.

And I may not know bunches of information about Orthodox Judaism, I could be completely wrong here, but I would assume there'd be at least a few conditions in there; sort of like Christians thinking sex should only occur between man & wife. I don't really get an open sexuality, hippiesque feel from "Orthodox".

Even apart from sin, asexuality is "not good" because it prevents being fully human. Part of being human is enjoying sex and a sexual human will enjoy life more than an asexual. Compare to blindness, etc. Asexuality is part of fallen humanity caused by Eve/Adam's original sin.

Part of being human is enjoying sex? Is that in the manual? I would think THAT would be a personal preference. You'd have to be both sexual and asexual simultaneously to truly determine which enjoys life more, anything else is mere speculation. I'm not following the Adam & Eve reference, I thought sex was the original sin, which would make a lack of sexual desire a very odd punishment...

However, given the Bible was written in such anti-sex cultures, it has many anti-sex passages. I have wondered if most Christians believe Jesus was asexual since they never talk about Jesus' sexuality. Since he was celibate, and we are supposed to be like-Christ, it's a win for asexuals.

And of course the last one being Jesus related I'm a little more sure of my footing. Christians don't assume Christ is ace, Christians don't assume anything because Christ part of the holy trinity; a God in His own right. That idea is usually pitched by those who know of Christ but are not followers of Christ. Devout Christians consider even thinking of Jesus on such a mortal or peer-like level utter blasphemy and most of the rest (myself included) consider it completely irrelevant to His message.

And for the record we aren't supposed to be Christ-like. We are supposed to adhere to His teachings and lead the best life we can; no mere sinner could ever hope to be anywhere close to His perfection, we were shown perfect so we could understand what perfect was, not because it's expected of us now.

[Sally]

However, given the Bible was written in such anti-sex cultures, it has many anti-sex passages.

The Jewish Bible, what you call the "Old Testament", was not in the least anti-sex. There were regulations because the writers knew that most people liked sex and would engage in it. In fact, Orthodox Judaism states that men should "know" their wives on Friday as a way of ensuring that on at least one night a week, the wife gets..."known."

Don't confuse Christian attitudes toward sex with other religions' attitudes toward sex.

[AVENCakes]

Asexuality itself is not sin (only action or inaction are sins), but embracing asexuality (ie, refusing to have sex) is sin. In Orthodox Judaism, the first commandment is to have children and refraining from sex refuses that commandment (thus the negativity about barren women). Sex is also a good gift from God to be enjoyed and refusing that gift is rejecting God. Likewise, having children is also a gift.

This is my biggest problem with the God christians seem to work wtih. He makes you like this, then tells you you're wrong. It's like someone making a robot to wash dishes then getting pissed off when it does. Yes, I realize humans have the free will to choose not to act on their desires, but you'd think it'd be easier to just not give it to them then expect them not to act on it.

Also- Sex is a "good gift"? Then why make it so some people are traumatized by it or find it boring? And childbirth? How many women would love to return that sucker and replace it with a trip to somewhere tropical instead of going through labor? If it's such a gift, why not give it to men as well? Yes, for people who enjoy sex, it's a good gift, but for people who don't it's like giving them a really ugly sweater.

[Næt.]

Adam and Eve were foolish enough to fall for the old talking snake trick, so that's why childbirth was a punishment.

[AVENCakes]

Adam and Eve were foolish enough to fall for the old talking snake trick, so that's why childbirth was a punishment.

The version of the bible I read: God lied and the Devil told the truth. God said "eating that will kill you" the Devil said "eating this will give you knowledge". Who was right?

Yes, eventually they died, maybe in the garden they wouldn't've, but then it isn't the apple that killed them but God who did because he kicked them out. Eating the fruit alone didn't kill them, God's punishment is what did it. It's like saying "if you do this, you'll die" and then shooting them when they do it. And then he causes childbirth? Okay, wasn't the whole throwign them out of the garden, etc. enough? What did their children do to deserve that anyways- they didn't eat the forbidden fruit.

I didn't actually get past 3 pages, though, so that's the only bit I can really comment on with full confidence. But what I've heard of the rest isn't so lovely. Jesus- great guy, can see why people'd want to follow him. Everything else makes no sense to me.

[ProdeFemme]

Asexuality itself is not sin (only action or inaction are sins), but embracing asexuality (ie, refusing to have sex) is sin. In Orthodox Judaism, the first commandment is to have children and refraining from sex refuses that commandment (thus the negativity about barren women). Sex is also a good gift from God to be enjoyed and refusing that gift is rejecting God. Likewise, having children is also a gift.

This is my biggest problem with the God christians seem to work wtih. He makes you like this, then tells you you're wrong. It's like someone making a robot to wash dishes then getting pissed off when it does. Yes, I realize humans have the free will to choose not to act on their desires, but you'd think it'd be easier to just not give it to them then expect them not to act on it.

Also- Sex is a "good gift"? Then why make it so some people are traumatized by it or find it boring? And childbirth? How many women would love to return that sucker and replace it with a trip to somewhere tropical instead of going through labor? If it's such a gift, why not give it to men as well? Yes, for people who enjoy sex, it's a good gift, but for people who don't it's like giving them a really ugly sweater.

You've been exposed to the weirdest version of Christianity I've heard yet. Keeping in mind of course that quote isn't even referring to the Christian God...

[Ace Amoeba]

Adam and Eve were foolish enough to fall for the old talking snake trick, so that's why childbirth was a punishment.

The version of the bible I read: God lied and the Devil told the truth. God said "eating that will kill you" the Devil said "eating this will give you knowledge". Who was right?

Yes, eventually they died, maybe in the garden they wouldn't've, but then it isn't the apple that killed them but God who did because he kicked them out. Eating the fruit alone didn't kill them, God's punishment is what did it. It's like saying "if you do this, you'll die" and then shooting them when they do it. And then he causes childbirth? Okay, wasn't the whole throwign them out of the garden, etc. enough? What did their children do to deserve that anyways- they didn't eat the forbidden fruit.

I didn't actually get past 3 pages, though, so that's the only bit I can really comment on with full confidence. But what I've heard of the rest isn't so lovely. Jesus- great guy, can see why people'd want to follow him. Everything else makes no sense to me.

I would say both God and the snake we're telling the truth. Had Adam and Eve not eaten that fruit, they would have lived forever, so God was right there in the wages of sin being death. There was also truth to the what the snake said in gaining knowledge, which they did in learning of their shame. This doesn't take away from the snake being a deceiver as he deceived the first woman and man of their eternal life with God by using the bait of knowledge.

As far as I'm concerned sin is simply defined as anything that separates one from God, and all fall short in some way. Adam was the perfect man, and no man will ever be as perfect, yet even he fell short and sinned against the one law that God required of him. It was only when Jesus was sent to die for out shortcomings that there became a way back to God.

Sin is not simply breaking one of the ten commandments, again it is anything separating humans from God. Wanting a million dollars alone isn't a sin, but rather the reason behind it. Wanting that much money for positive causes that are selfless is not the same as wanting the same amount for personal extravagance, which is considered Greed.

In the same way, Asexuality may or may not be a sin depending on the individual. Perhaps the lack of sexual attraction is so focus can be put on some other task, and neglecting this task could be considered sinful depending on the individual. Someone who is Christian and realizes they may be asexuality should certainly pray to God and ask for the Holy Spirit's guidance.

[Guest member25959]

I think that christians criticize anyone who is'nt 'normal'

[ProdeFemme]

I think that christians criticize anyone who is'nt 'normal'

And what was that sunshine, a euphemism? :lol:

[Janx]

There are a few stories and messages in the Bible (I.E. Sodom/Gammora) that portray homosexuality in a very negative light. "Sodomy" came from this story.

Sodom was not destroyed because of homosexuality. Every single passage in the Bible that refers to those two cities mentions all sorts of vileness and wickedness - largely revolving around inhospitality - but never homosexuality.

[sonofzeal]

I think that christians criticize anyone who is'nt 'normal'

I think the same goes for a lot of people, regardless of religion. It comes up most in Christianity these days because, hey, at least in North America, a certain degree of Christianity is your "normal". A muslim in the USA would almost necessarily be aware of the importance of being respectful of other people's beliefs, but people born and raised in the Bible Belt don't often have that sort of perspective. Ask yourself which was more tolerant of deviations from the norm - Christian USA, Muslim Saudi Arabia, or Athiest Soviet Union.

Personally, I think they're all pretty low on the scale of tolerance, and I think that's good evidence that intolerance is a problem of humanity, not a problem of any of those codes of belief.

[AVENCakes]

I would say both God and the snake we're telling the truth. Had Adam and Eve not eaten that fruit, they would have lived forever, so God was right there in the wages of sin being death. There was also truth to the what the snake said in gaining knowledge, which they did in learning of their shame. This doesn't take away from the snake being a deceiver as he deceived the first woman and man of their eternal life with God by using the bait of knowledge.

I think it was false advertising and a half truth, it would've been true if it was "if you eat this, I will kill you". Saying "eating this will kill you" implies the fruit itself will kill oyu because it's poisonous or something.

As far as I'm concerned sin is simply defined as anything that separates one from God, and all fall short in some way.

I value knowledge over mindless obedience. If that's a sin in God's eyes, then I'm proud to be a sinner.

[mjlovebug]

to me, homosexuality and asexuality are not sins, i will not go into why i believe this b/c it will take a long time to type and i am not the best at spelling and grammar, however there is a great website for any that want to check it out that was made by the MCC church, it is "would Jesus discriminate" i don't know if links are allowed here so i would just say to Google it

[Guest]

This thread is over four-and-a-half years old, so I am locking it. Please do not revive dead threads. If you wish to discuss something from an old thread, please make a new thread.

Yagami Hikari

Asexual Q&A Moderator