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Liberationist or Assimilationist?


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Poll: Read the post before answering if you need clarification of terms. (24 member(s) have cast votes)

Liberationist, Assimilationist or something else?

  1. Liberationist (5 votes [20.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.83%

  2. Assimilationist (15 votes [62.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.50%

  3. Other (kindly explain) (4 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

Vote

#1 NŠt.

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 10:29 PM

Source

There are two opposing political viewpoints when it comes to advocacy and than of course there are a variety of more moderate middle-ground opinions that fall in between the Queer Liberationists and Gay Assimilationist camps.

Gay Assimilationists - This ideology is to make gay/lesbian people seem like average, normal everyday citizens in the eyes of the general public. They want to make the case that gay families deserve equal rights and recognition and they want what everyone else wants: a house with a white picket fence and 2.5 kids. Some Gay Assimilationists are not inclusive of Bisexuals or Transgender people because they feel these groups hurt the gay rights movement. This is not the case for all Assimilationists and many seek to include all LGBT people and create a sense of assimilation into the general society. Gay Assimilationists often seek to advance their agenda through corporate sponsorships and see getting big business and government on their side as a way to advance equality. The assimilationists strive to paint the LGBT community as being no different than the heterosexual world and just want to fit in. They want the rights to marriage, the rights to adoption, to serve freely and openly in the military. Part of achieving these means, Gay Assimilationists seek to tone down the sexual aspect of gay pride, they feel that sexuality is one component of gay relationships and seek to emphasize much more the loving, financial, community, and faith based aspects of LGBT relationships.

Queer Liberationists - This camp of political theory views gender and sexuality in non-conformist ways. They do not apologize for the differences of Queer individuals and do not seek to "fit in". They embrace the idea of "We're Here, We're Queer, Get Used to it!" and believe society must change to accept them rather than they change to mould into hetero-normative society. Queer Liberationists are often but not always concerned with Queer issues as they relate not only to LGBT people but also to capitalism, anti-militarism, sexism, racism and other aspects of social justice. They are less concerned with same-sex marriage, adoption, and don't ask don't tell. Many times but not always they are against the institution of marriage altogether, feel gays are liberated from the idea of raising kids, and are against gays serving in the military because they are anti-military to begin with. Queer Liberationists often disagree with the idea of corporate partnerships and having big business and government intervene in LGBT issues. Queer Liberationists do not seek to hide their sexuality and gender expression, they seek to embrace it and encourage what has conventionally been frowned upon as inappropriate.

These are two diametrically opposed political camps. Most people have various opinions that don't fall so heavily into one party or the other. Where do you lie and what are your thoughts?


Personally, I think I lean more towards assimilationist.

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#2 SlightlyMetaphysical

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 11:29 PM

I put assimilationist, in that I never see what the difference is.

You may want to swap round your poll options, I got confused 'cos they were the opposite way to the OP
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#3 NŠt.

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 11:35 PM

Well now the Assimilationist votes have gone to Liberationists.

/grumbles and changes options around

"[T]he future isn't a boot stamping on a human face, forever. It's a person in a beige business outfit advocating beige policies that nobody wants (but nobody can quite articulate a coherent alternative to) with a false mandate obtained by performing rituals of representative democracy that offer as much actual choice as a Stalinist one-party state. And resistance is futile, because if you succeed in overthrowing the beige dictatorship, you will become that which you opposed."

 

--Charlie Stross

 

"Remember to stay hydrated."

--Garrus Vakarian, Mass Effect


#4 Illuminated

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 01:59 AM

I probably wouldn't've voted, but the "vote" button had an exclamation point that just made the whole thing seem so exciting.

But nah, I just don't like people who make their whole lives seem to revolve around LGBT issues any more than I like people whose lives revolve around diaper genies or the Yankess.

#5 kt8

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 03:15 AM

Liberationalist -y.

Who wants to conform to make people happy? It's the world that needs to be more accepting of what differences already exist.
I'm not against gay marriage or anything, though.

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#6 Illuminated

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 03:29 AM

Liberationalist -y.

Who wants to conform to make people happy? It's the world that needs to be more accepting of what differences already exist.
I'm not against gay marriage or anything, though.

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I don't see it as a conformity thing; to me it's about emphasizing the common humanity over artificially inflated differences. The description provided for the latter party just makes it sound shrill. But then, descriptions of either are never going to cover the entirety of that side, or the discrepancies between individuals of those sides.

#7 endplusone

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 04:03 AM

I'm more on the Liberationist side, but also a bit of both. I'm Liberationist when it comes to Queer theory and society. I don't agree with "conforming with the norm" to make other people comfortable in society. For example, if you consider LGBT references in media - say, television - most representations are of gay men who are interested in design and doing hair. The only way "normal society" deals with the integration of a group of people who have been is to fit them within a stereotype. They're still "the Other", they just happen to be a much more safer image of them, which I think is pushing a lot of issues under the table. However, I agree with the Assimilationist rights. Everyone has equal rights, but never has to take on a "normal" way of living in order to maintain them. I agree with Liberationists and that everyone should be free to express the diversity of gender and sexuality.
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#8 No_Celery

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 01:25 PM

I'd say I'm leaning more towards assimilationist because I think it's important that gay people have equal rights to straight people. Whether they choose to take advantage of those rights is entirely up to them as individuals.
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#9 Parth

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:05 PM

I like both. I really think that people should be able to be themselves, whether they want to settle down and be "normal", or whether they want to be over-the-top. If that's the way they are, then who is anybody to judge?

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#10 Dame du Lac

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 07:59 PM

Other. I believe that the law should enshrine equal rights and opportunities but I don't believe everyone should conform to the norms of current society. I believe that everyone, regardless of sexuality, gender, race, religion etc etc should have a lot of personal freedom and be able to live the lifestyle they want as long as they also take responsibility for themselves and don't intrude on the lives of others. So, for a non-controversial example, if you are an adult you can drink yourself into oblivion if you wish to, but you don't subject other people to the effects by shouting at people in the street or vomiting/urinating in the street or picking fights. In return, your employer doesn't sack you for getting drunk at weekends if its not affecting your work.

#11 oneofthesun

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 11:58 PM

Two years ago I would have said liberationist - Now I've changed my views. The reason is because the whole rebel mentality makes queer culture shallow, selfish and reckless - Full of drugs, alcohol and risky sex. If the fundies don't eventually destroy us those things will. You can be different in your sexuality without the hedonistic lifestyle to go with it.
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#12 AllyCat

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 07:50 AM

Other: I think everybody should be sexually liberated (including straight people), in the sense of discussing their expectations rather than expecting a set of outdated gender stereotypes to do it all for them. So that's liberationist, I guess. On the other hand, I think it's crucial that queer people get the same de facto rights and respect as straight people. So that's assimilationist.

I don't think the two projects are fundamentally opposed to each other.

#13 Kelly

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 11:57 AM

grumbles and changes options around

They still seem swapped. Perhaps you could change the descriptions in the source to list Liberationist first to match the poll and title, or the poll and title to match the descriptions. :)

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#14 Shoes

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 10:39 PM

Other. I believe that the law should enshrine equal rights and opportunities but I don't believe everyone should conform to the norms of current society. I believe that everyone, regardless of sexuality, gender, race, religion etc etc should have a lot of personal freedom and be able to live the lifestyle they want as long as they also take responsibility for themselves and don't intrude on the lives of others. So, for a non-controversial example, if you are an adult you can drink yourself into oblivion if you wish to, but you don't subject other people to the effects by shouting at people in the street or vomiting/urinating in the street or picking fights. In return, your employer doesn't sack you for getting drunk at weekends if its not affecting your work.


Well, i voted assimilationist, but this really sums up my view quite a whole lot better.
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#15 GirlInside

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:41 AM

I think they should be allowed to make a choice. If they want to live mainstream, then they should be able to. If they want to live in a separate culture, they should be able to. But people should stick with the chioces they make--they shouldn't claim to want to live like normal people and then act like they're in the separatist culture while around people of the mainstream culture, and they shouldn't claim to want to be allowed to do whatever they want and then get offended when someone else does whatever they want.

I feel that way about all minority groups, though.
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#16 ily

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 07:48 AM

I'm mostly liberationist, but if gay people want to get married and serve in the military, they should definitely have that choice. I do think racism, sexism, ableism, etc, should be important to the queer community, since those issues certainly affect its members. Just focusing on marriage is a little short-sighted.

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#17 ThePieMaker

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 02:16 PM

I'm more towards assimilationists. Not that I think they should hide themselves, but that they should be seen as just another person who just so happens to stray sexuality wise from the heteronormative world. I believe they should be treated just as any other individual. It's one's sexuality, not one's life. And while it plays a fairly good part in one's life, there is so much more to a person. Nothing against Liberationists, I just feel it's more important to be accepted in society, not change, just accepted. It comes down to accomodation, assimilation, or amalgamation. Accomodate - A + B = A + B (agree to be different but still live together). Assimilate - A + B = A (One gets sucked into the others world). Amalgamation - A + B = C (Come together to form a single similar society, taking things from both). The only way I think either side should ever change is in tolerance, otherwise, free to be themselves. And sometimes, a queer free to being themselves is to be hardly different from the rest of society except on the matter of their sexuality.
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