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A different classification of sexuality


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#1 Philip

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 04:43 PM

Men and women who are sexually, romantically and emotionally attracted to and desire people of their own gender are described as homosexuals; while men and women who are thus attracted to and desire people of the other gender are described as heterosexuals. So the classification into hetero and homosexual is not based as such on the gender of the person desired and attracted to. It is social, cultural and linguistic convention, not the one system of classification which must be used based on an unchanging and absolute truth.

Gareth Moore in his book 'A Question of Truth: The Church and Homosexuality' has suggested that men and women who are attracted to and desire men could be called 'androphiles', and men and women who are attracted to women could be called 'gynaecophiles'.
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#2 Usernamecolonasterisk

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 07:34 PM

Sex and the suffix 'phile' is typically illegal.

But it does make sense. homo- just means same. Doesn't specify same gender/sex.

#3 Hallucigenia

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 08:15 PM

What about bisexuals? What are they called? Would they be biphiles, or are they not in the model?

#4 GirlInside

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 09:29 PM

I think that's still missing something. I tend to go by butch/femme instead of straight/gay or even androphilic/gynephilic.

I don't really think in terms of whether someone is attracted to men or women as much as I think in terms of the way someone is attracted to men and/or women and the way they function within their relationships.

Some gay men are attracted to men the way straight men are attracted to women; others are attracted to men the way straight women are attracted to men. I think of the former as being more like straight men than like straight women, and I think of the latter as being more like straight women.

In some same-sex relationships, one person has the male role and the other has the female role. If someone prefers one role or the other, I think this is more important than whether they're attracted to men or women.

I guess that's just my bias; as I've mentioned, though I prefer women, I don't care about that as much as I care about whether I get to have the female role.
I became a practicing Roman Catholic near the end of 2010. Six months later, out of my own free will, out of love for Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ, I walked away from all things transgender and have not gone back since. I stopped identifying as female and came to embrace my God-given sex (male). I am happy being male and would not have it any other way. I am still celibate, because God has called me to it, in case anyone is wondering.

I no longer believe the things I posted here, unless some of them happen to be in line with Scripture and Church teaching. Some people here have sent me messages; to avoid any further misunderstandings, I have written this explanation in my signature.

The important thing for you to know is, I am so much happier as a Christian than I ever was prior to my conversion. Please do not be offended by my mentioning it.

#5 bbctv

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 05:06 AM

yeah, i kind of go with what GirlInside said. i mean, being both weird and asexual i don't think what i feel for women is what most straight heterosexual men do. of course, i can't exactly do the analogies right all the time to figure out what exactly i DO compare with best. i'd say i feel "like a woman who wants a boston marriage with another woman because she feels men don't address her emotional needs well and needs deep, loving companionship."
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#6 Hallucigenia

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 05:32 PM

GirlInside and david, I think this is really interesting, but could you elaborate on what you mean by "male and female roles" in a relationship? I suspect that there's a lot more to it than who tops, but I'm having trouble picturing exactly what.

I think I can and have pictured the difference in terms of male and female attraction, but I'm not sure how much of that is valid and how much of it is based on stereotypes. I mean, for example, if a girl looks at another girl and thinks "Damn. 10 out of 10!" the way a guy would, is that really a case of her thinking like a man in some inherent way, or is it a way of thinking that's common to both genders and merely ascribed to men, or is it merely a sad case of her having internalized some dehumanizing cultural ways to think about bodies? Blargh! This is why gender roles confuse me so much!

So, like, if you could give some examples of what you mean by male and female roles, I would be really interested in trying to understand.

#7 Kelly

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 11:13 PM

Androphilic (attracted to guys) and gynephilic (attracted to girls) are good terms. It avoids the gay/straight issue, and just states orientation.

These terms are especially useful when discussing TS people. A pre-operative MtF (anatomically male) TS woman might be considered homosexual if she is androphilic, yet heterosexual after she has SRS and is anatomically female, even though she is the same person and her orientation has not changed.

What about bisexuals?

Simply bisexual seems to be a proper term.

#8 bbctv

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 12:49 AM

it's pretty tough to elaborate- i'd say it depends on what the society an individual is in AND the perceptions of a given individual of what is NORMATIVE or whatever.
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#9 GirlInside

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 03:15 AM

GirlInside and david, I think this is really interesting, but could you elaborate on what you mean by "male and female roles" in a relationship? I suspect that there's a lot more to it than who tops, but I'm having trouble picturing exactly what.


Basically, it's exactly what you'd think someone would mean when describing such a thing. Men and women have different cultures, like Americans and Japanese. Stereotypes are just stereotypes, but they come from somewhere. Just as not all Americans are individualistic in their thinking, not all women have "the maternal instinct." Just as not all Japanese are polite, not all men are aggressive. But those cultural differences still exist in both cases.
I became a practicing Roman Catholic near the end of 2010. Six months later, out of my own free will, out of love for Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ, I walked away from all things transgender and have not gone back since. I stopped identifying as female and came to embrace my God-given sex (male). I am happy being male and would not have it any other way. I am still celibate, because God has called me to it, in case anyone is wondering.

I no longer believe the things I posted here, unless some of them happen to be in line with Scripture and Church teaching. Some people here have sent me messages; to avoid any further misunderstandings, I have written this explanation in my signature.

The important thing for you to know is, I am so much happier as a Christian than I ever was prior to my conversion. Please do not be offended by my mentioning it.

#10 SadNoirPlot

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 01:02 PM

This is why gender roles confuse me so much!



You're not the only one... :?:

#11 oneofthesun

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 02:21 AM

Gareth Moore in his book 'A Question of Truth: The Church and Homosexuality' has suggested that men and women who are attracted to and desire men could be called 'androphiles', and men and women who are attracted to women could be called 'gynaecophiles'.


I think that's a great idea. The whole concept of orientation is what makes objections to peoples' sexuality possible.
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#12 BunnyK.

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 02:23 PM

In some same-sex relationships, one person has the male role and the other has the female role.


I really don't know about this. I'm a fairly masculine woman, and take on at least some of the "male" roles in my (straight) relationship - but I think the attraction I have for my boyfriend doesn't come from the role I play, but the fact that he's a guy. I don't look for either manly man types or feminine types, though I've dated both. I just am more attracted to men.

Plus, the irritable feminist in me has a hard time not rejecting out of hand anything that has to do with male or female "roles", since I reject them so utterly for myself.

#13 GirlInside

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 05:04 PM

Plus, the irritable feminist in me has a hard time not rejecting out of hand anything that has to do with male or female "roles", since I reject them so utterly for myself.


I'm an irritable feminist too. :D It's nice to see another one here--there was another board where they hated me for being a feminist and routinely told me to shut up about it. Being an irritable feminist, I didn't. :twisted:

I don't really see a contradiction between wanting the female role and being a feminist. After all, feminism is the belief that women and men should be equal. And though it would be nice if gender-based restrictions disappeared, there are still male and female cultures, and most people fit into one or the other reasonably well.
I became a practicing Roman Catholic near the end of 2010. Six months later, out of my own free will, out of love for Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ, I walked away from all things transgender and have not gone back since. I stopped identifying as female and came to embrace my God-given sex (male). I am happy being male and would not have it any other way. I am still celibate, because God has called me to it, in case anyone is wondering.

I no longer believe the things I posted here, unless some of them happen to be in line with Scripture and Church teaching. Some people here have sent me messages; to avoid any further misunderstandings, I have written this explanation in my signature.

The important thing for you to know is, I am so much happier as a Christian than I ever was prior to my conversion. Please do not be offended by my mentioning it.

#14 Hallucigenia

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 10:37 PM

I don't really see a contradiction between wanting the female role and being a feminist. After all, feminism is the belief that women and men should be equal. And though it would be nice if gender-based restrictions disappeared, there are still male and female cultures, and most people fit into one or the other reasonably well.


So, I just had an interesting thought. Into your "butch" vs. "femme" model, could we also include categories for people who are both or neither, the way some people currently attempt to with "male" and "female"?

For example, there could be people who wanted aspects of both the male and female roles in the relationship, or people who wanted a relationship with no aspects of either.

This, of course, would develop the theory into another messy continuum.

I'm not sure where I fit in terms of romantic relationships; I just know that when you mentioned "male and female cultures", a little light bulb went on. In my everyday life, I don't feel that I fit in to male or female "cultures", though I can often perceive them to some degree. Then again, maybe that has more to do with social awkwardness than an actual gender-type thing. :?

This is all really complicated, isn't it? :D

#15 GirlInside

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 10:54 PM

I guess people who don't fit either would be a third party. Just as not every American is a Republican or a Democrat, not everyone is butch or femme.

I guess I'm lucky in that I belong to one of the genders in our two-party gender system, even if society wants me to be in the other party.

I have trouble imagining how there can be a romantic relationship without a clear male role and a clear female role, no matter which partner has which. I mean, if the two partners want the same role in a certain aspect of the relationship, how do they decide who gets it? And how does the loser of that battle feel about it? "You got to last time! I want to be the girl in this!" It reminds me of kids fighting over who gets to be Mario when they play a Super Mario game. "I don't want to be Luigi! I got stuck being Luigi last time!" (I always felt sorry for Luigi.)

This is why I prefer just being friends. Friends don't care what gender role you play, they just like you for who you are.
I became a practicing Roman Catholic near the end of 2010. Six months later, out of my own free will, out of love for Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ, I walked away from all things transgender and have not gone back since. I stopped identifying as female and came to embrace my God-given sex (male). I am happy being male and would not have it any other way. I am still celibate, because God has called me to it, in case anyone is wondering.

I no longer believe the things I posted here, unless some of them happen to be in line with Scripture and Church teaching. Some people here have sent me messages; to avoid any further misunderstandings, I have written this explanation in my signature.

The important thing for you to know is, I am so much happier as a Christian than I ever was prior to my conversion. Please do not be offended by my mentioning it.

#16 BunnyK.

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Posted 11 November 2007 - 06:50 PM

I don't really see a contradiction between wanting the female role and being a feminist. After all, feminism is the belief that women and men should be equal. And though it would be nice if gender-based restrictions disappeared, there are still male and female cultures, and most people fit into one or the other reasonably well.


It's not that I object to being stereotypically feminine when that's what I want. For example, I don't mind wearing dresses and doing my hair. I think little animals are cute. It's just that I object to being shoehorned into the female stereotype when it doesn't fit - for example, I like to lift weights and strongly dislike cleaning my apartment. So when people start talking about female and male roles, I tend to worry that they're going to start foisting "women are nurturing and care about the home" crap on me. And while I agree that feminism is about equality, I really think that equality *should* mean that I can be free to be who I am and be respected for that, no matter if I'm being "feminine" or "masculine".


I have trouble imagining how there can be a romantic relationship without a clear male role and a clear female role, no matter which partner has which.


I think it would help me organize my thoughts on this if you could clarify what you mean by male and female roles. What is the male role to you, and how do you know you are playing it?

Here is what I think so far, based on what you said above: In my relationship, I would say I'm the main problem solver - I would guess that that's a "male" role. I tend to make my boyfriend do the talking in public, so he is being the "male". I am the one begging for sex...definitely "male". I argue with utility companies when they screw up the bill - "male". He does more of the cleaning (because I just won't) - "female". I initiate more of the "state of the relationship" talks - "female". He is really the only one decorating (female), whereas I am the one who cares about what color the walls are (I don't even know). Of course, his idea of decorating is a beer can pyramid on his desk. :lol:

So really, who takes the male or female role there? It just doesn't seem to work for us or our relationship, unless you argue that everything that I do is automatically female because I do it. We seem to share everything based on our individual abilities and temperaments, which makes a lot more sense to me than arbitrarily adding a gender element to it.

#17 GirlInside

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 04:49 AM

You're lucky to have someone you're so compatible with. I'm envious.

When I say "male role" and "female role," I'm talking about how they're defined by our culture. The stereotypes, in other words. They may be just stereotypes, but they're also our culture's ideals.

I hate having to be in any male role; to me, it's suffocating. And I can't imagine anyone who would get into a relationship with someone who is biologically male would be all right with that. (I've heard that even among gay men, feminine men have trouble finding relationships because many masculine gay men want nothing to do with them, to the point where they put "NO FEMS" in their personal ads.) I'd rather stay celibate than have to be in the male role all the time; the fact that I can make this choice is one of the things that made me realize I'm asexual--I can take or leave sex.

I agree with you that everyone should be free to be masculine or feminine. Unfortuantely, only a lucky few have that freedom. You seem to be one of those lucky few. I envy you.
I became a practicing Roman Catholic near the end of 2010. Six months later, out of my own free will, out of love for Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ, I walked away from all things transgender and have not gone back since. I stopped identifying as female and came to embrace my God-given sex (male). I am happy being male and would not have it any other way. I am still celibate, because God has called me to it, in case anyone is wondering.

I no longer believe the things I posted here, unless some of them happen to be in line with Scripture and Church teaching. Some people here have sent me messages; to avoid any further misunderstandings, I have written this explanation in my signature.

The important thing for you to know is, I am so much happier as a Christian than I ever was prior to my conversion. Please do not be offended by my mentioning it.

#18 gbrd143

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 04:42 PM

I have trouble imagining how there can be a romantic relationship without a clear male role and a clear female role, no matter which partner has which. I mean, if the two partners want the same role in a certain aspect of the relationship, how do they decide who gets it?


I am in what would probably be considered a romantic relationship (although I don't really care for that term) and I am definitely not of the female gender. I'm not male gendered either, though. (I am biologically female.)
My partner and I are both fairly androgynous, although on gender tests I lean slightly toward male, and he leans slightly toward female.
In our relationship we are able to switch roles without effort and it seems perfectly natural. There is no jealousy or envy over who "gets to be" one gender or another in any given exchange.
I suspect that this might be because we are both very familiar with all of the social aspects of BOTH genders, and that we are aware that both genders include good and bad aspects that exactly balance each other.
In other words, neither gender is superior to the other.

One of the things that I learned after joining AVEN was that I am attracted to androgynous-gendered people rather than to those who are polarized into either masculinity or femininity. I always knew it on some level, I suppose, but I never had the words to explain it until I took some gender tests and learned more about the subject.

I really don't know how to explain it, so I will try to use an example. (And no, this isn't about physical anatomy - it's just a convenience, so I'm using it. :P I'm thinking more in terms of personality than biology.)

Masculine gender = one round peg.
Feminine gender = one round hole.
Androgynous gender = numerous pegs and holes of various shapes.

Obviously it will be easier for a masculine and a feminine gendered person to find each other and interlock since they only have one primary way of connecting.
Androgynous gendered people may have a more difficult time finding a match, but, once such a person is found, the interlock is very tight indeed.

I hope this makes sense.
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#19 GirlInside

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 10:26 PM

Masculine gender = one round peg.
Feminine gender = one round hole.
Androgynous gender = numerous pegs and holes of various shapes.

Obviously it will be easier for a masculine and a feminine gendered person to find each other and interlock since they only have one primary way of connecting.
Androgynous gendered people may have a more difficult time finding a match, but, once such a person is found, the interlock is very tight indeed.


That's actually very helpful. Thank you.
I became a practicing Roman Catholic near the end of 2010. Six months later, out of my own free will, out of love for Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ, I walked away from all things transgender and have not gone back since. I stopped identifying as female and came to embrace my God-given sex (male). I am happy being male and would not have it any other way. I am still celibate, because God has called me to it, in case anyone is wondering.

I no longer believe the things I posted here, unless some of them happen to be in line with Scripture and Church teaching. Some people here have sent me messages; to avoid any further misunderstandings, I have written this explanation in my signature.

The important thing for you to know is, I am so much happier as a Christian than I ever was prior to my conversion. Please do not be offended by my mentioning it.

#20 Seorv

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 01:23 AM

Whoa this is an interesting topic, so glad I joined.

I don't think there should so much classification to define "male" and "female" roles within a relationship, because that's just personnality, and different people are attracted to different personnalities.

You can only go as far as saying that you generally are attracted to a certain biological gender; being either sexually, romantically or emotionally. .. although I thought romantically was like emotionally, whats the difference?

#21 GirlInside

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 04:39 AM

I disagree.

I don't think of a feminine lesbian or a masculine gay man as very different from gender-normal straight people, except they have different sexual preferences. The difference, to me, is on the level of men who prefer fat women or women who prefer short men.

But a masculine lesbian and a feminine gay man are gender-different in addition to being attracted to the same sex.

I really think it makes more sense to group people in terms of butch, femme, and neither.
I became a practicing Roman Catholic near the end of 2010. Six months later, out of my own free will, out of love for Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ, I walked away from all things transgender and have not gone back since. I stopped identifying as female and came to embrace my God-given sex (male). I am happy being male and would not have it any other way. I am still celibate, because God has called me to it, in case anyone is wondering.

I no longer believe the things I posted here, unless some of them happen to be in line with Scripture and Church teaching. Some people here have sent me messages; to avoid any further misunderstandings, I have written this explanation in my signature.

The important thing for you to know is, I am so much happier as a Christian than I ever was prior to my conversion. Please do not be offended by my mentioning it.

#22 Gatto

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 05:43 AM

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#23 Seorv

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 04:27 PM

I disagree.

I don't think of a feminine lesbian or a masculine gay man as very different from gender-normal straight people, except they have different sexual preferences. The difference, to me, is on the level of men who prefer fat women or women who prefer short men.

But a masculine lesbian and a feminine gay man are gender-different in addition to being attracted to the same sex.

I really think it makes more sense to group people in terms of butch, femme, and neither.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean, could we talk more about that? I'm intrigued..

People aren't totally masculine or feminine, everyone has different traits ,each one could be classed by society as being either 'm' or 'f' , but in reality, there's much much more to each trait than just being 'm' or 'f', each person's traits are different than another person's in so many different ways, that I don't see how you can classify people by these..
When I look for a partner, it seems pretty insignificant to me wether the way they act is considered masculine or feminine, I try to see much farther than that to see the person as a whole. :oops:

So, what I'm really trying to figure out is.. how does it matter in a relationship is a person is butch or feminine? Can't you be with a person just because you love her?
I personnaly wouldnt consider myself either type, although I tend to act more masculine just because of society. But inside, I feel like I'm neither, but can act out both if I want.

I await your viewpoint GirlInside :)

#24 GirlInside

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 05:07 PM

You feel like you're neither, and that's fine. But some of us are so strongly gendered that we can't take the role of the opposite gender. It's like being strongly right- or left-handed instead of being ambidextrous.

Feminine women make really good friends. But if I were in a relationship with one, she would expect me to take the male role in most of the ways that matter. I'd probably do it to please her, and then after a while, I wouldn't be able to take it anymore. The male role is so suffocating for me. I don't want to be someone's boyfriend, I want to be someone's girlfriend.

I have spoken to so many transgendered people who had the same problem. Some get married while in the male role and then one day snap and have to transition. All of those who do this regret getting married for the reasons I've described.

The case of David Reimer shows that gender identity has some innate components. (If you don't know who that is, search his name, or look at the article on my site.)
I became a practicing Roman Catholic near the end of 2010. Six months later, out of my own free will, out of love for Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ, I walked away from all things transgender and have not gone back since. I stopped identifying as female and came to embrace my God-given sex (male). I am happy being male and would not have it any other way. I am still celibate, because God has called me to it, in case anyone is wondering.

I no longer believe the things I posted here, unless some of them happen to be in line with Scripture and Church teaching. Some people here have sent me messages; to avoid any further misunderstandings, I have written this explanation in my signature.

The important thing for you to know is, I am so much happier as a Christian than I ever was prior to my conversion. Please do not be offended by my mentioning it.

#25 Seorv

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 09:01 PM

You feel like you're neither, and that's fine. But some of us are so strongly gendered that we can't take the role of the opposite gender. It's like being strongly right- or left-handed instead of being ambidextrous.

Feminine women make really good friends. But if I were in a relationship with one, she would expect me to take the male role in most of the ways that matter. I'd probably do it to please her, and then after a while, I wouldn't be able to take it anymore. The male role is so suffocating for me. I don't want to be someone's boyfriend, I want to be someone's girlfriend.

I have spoken to so many transgendered people who had the same problem. Some get married while in the male role and then one day snap and have to transition. All of those who do this regret getting married for the reasons I've described.

The case of David Reimer shows that gender identity has some innate components. (If you don't know who that is, search his name, or look at the article on my site.)


Can you elaborate as to why you think there should be both a male role and a female role in the same relationship?

I myself am rather passive in many respects of a relationship and so could be considered the feminine role maybe, and I fit better with someone who's also passive. also, I just so happen to have a friend who has a great relationship with a girl and he's way feminine, as well as her

... so that's why I fail to see why someone would want you to be the masculine role if she's not,.. and if she does, then that just means your personnality(which leans towards a feminine role) isn't compatible with her preferences. Does that make sense to you?

I'd like to know what you think. The way I see it, and to others I know, these roles are just fabrications that society made up, and does not in real truth account to meaningful relationships.

#26 GirlInside

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 10:42 PM

It's not that I think "there should be a male and a female role," it's that this is how it usually works. You might not be aware of it because you're not male or female, but those of us who have a gender are very aware.

Here's an excerpt from My Husband Betty, a book by a wife of a crossdresser about her husband. She is (by her own admission) a masculine woman, but she has definite ideas about how men should be in relationships:

There are three main types of problems crossdressers face... The first type is the desire to be "the woman" in bed... This desire is not a problem in and of itself but becomes problematic within a heterosexual relationship. Why? Because, as the wives and girlfriends of crossdressers have told me time and again, they married a man and they want a man in bed, and they have very specific ideas about how a man behaves sexually. If they wanted to be with a woman, they'd sleep with women--not men dressed as women. They are straight, not lesbian, and they want to be desired and seduced.


The second problem is that many are autoerotic and the third is that many are asexual. But one topic the author didn't address is that the unfulfilled desire to be "the woman" in bed (which means exactly what one might think it means) may, at least in some cases, be the cause of the other two problems.

According to the same book, when a woman finds out that her husband crossdresses, her two biggest fears are that 1) he might be gay and 2) he might want to be a woman. When I read that second one, my immediate thought was, "I'm in deep trouble."

Here is an excerpt from She's Not The Man I Married: My Life With A Transgender Husband, by the same author:

Women want male partners who listen, who will watch chick flicks, and who share the remote, but they also don't feel desired if a man doesn't get hard when they take their clothes off. Women want men to break some rules of masculinity, but only certain ones, and only at appropriate times. I know a woman who loves that her husband is kind and nurturing with their disabled son, but it still bothers her if he wants to wear flowered shirts or perfume. We can accept some femininity in men, but not too much. The reverse is also true: Some men love women who are strong, smart, and independent, but they might also feel unnerved by a wife who makes more money than they do.


Everyone I know feels this way. Most women, even masculine women, want their men to be masculine. I'm the same way; I want someone (male or female) who will take the male role. Someone who's feminine would make a good friend, but I just don't find myself attracted to them in a romantic way.

I realize you might not know women or men very well, but I'm telling you that's how it is. You're just going to have to take my word for it that many people are strongly gendered.
I became a practicing Roman Catholic near the end of 2010. Six months later, out of my own free will, out of love for Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ, I walked away from all things transgender and have not gone back since. I stopped identifying as female and came to embrace my God-given sex (male). I am happy being male and would not have it any other way. I am still celibate, because God has called me to it, in case anyone is wondering.

I no longer believe the things I posted here, unless some of them happen to be in line with Scripture and Church teaching. Some people here have sent me messages; to avoid any further misunderstandings, I have written this explanation in my signature.

The important thing for you to know is, I am so much happier as a Christian than I ever was prior to my conversion. Please do not be offended by my mentioning it.

#27 Seorv

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 11:17 PM

I realize you might not know women or men very well, but I'm telling you that's how it is. You're just going to have to take my word for it that many people are strongly gendered.


Hmm, I understand a bit more where you're coming from now.
I understand masculine men very well, ..feminine men, somewhat well, but when it comes to certain mindsets some women have, I can be at a pretty big loss. :?

I can understand how alot of people can feel they need someone according to the roles that were set out, since that's how they were raised,
but.. well.. also take my word for it, there's a good deal of folks that aren't bound by those roles, and I'm not just talking about myself. I'll take your word and assume that it's probably a very small minority globally . But where I live, society is open enough that it's probably something like 50/50(in the young public) almost, from what I can see.
But the weird thing is, is that girls around here are so complicated! most may not care if the male is feminine (depending on their tastes) but their criteria are so varied! so much so than where I used to live. Well, it's probably not good to generalize, since I haven't met everyone in the city, but I've met enough to see the difference.

If you're right, and there's alot more people like what you're talking about than I originally thought, then I may be in trouble as well.. :?

Anyway, my word on it is; just because it's how it usually is, doesn't mean it's how it should be. I wonder how many people on this site think one way or the other..

#28 GirlInside

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 02:24 AM

I think people like you are in the minority. I can't imagine what planet you could possibly live on if the ratio is truly 50/50.
I became a practicing Roman Catholic near the end of 2010. Six months later, out of my own free will, out of love for Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ, I walked away from all things transgender and have not gone back since. I stopped identifying as female and came to embrace my God-given sex (male). I am happy being male and would not have it any other way. I am still celibate, because God has called me to it, in case anyone is wondering.

I no longer believe the things I posted here, unless some of them happen to be in line with Scripture and Church teaching. Some people here have sent me messages; to avoid any further misunderstandings, I have written this explanation in my signature.

The important thing for you to know is, I am so much happier as a Christian than I ever was prior to my conversion. Please do not be offended by my mentioning it.

#29 Seorv

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 03:37 AM

I think people like you are in the minority. I can't imagine what planet you could possibly live on if the ratio is truly 50/50.


I've talked about it to some of my friends, and some of their opinions were pretty divided... so I'm not sure what to think, though one did make a wise comment;

"There's no way to know what everyone in the world thinks, you're making assumptions from what you personnaly know, ..but you don't watch tv, so I think it's fair to assume that you don't know what people are being forcefed by it and what the majority think"

Makes sense, I dont watch tv lol. Most common people probably have the roles ingrained in their head i guess.. bah

#30 GirlInside

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 05:33 AM

But there were even stricter gender roles early in the last century, before TV was invented.
I became a practicing Roman Catholic near the end of 2010. Six months later, out of my own free will, out of love for Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ, I walked away from all things transgender and have not gone back since. I stopped identifying as female and came to embrace my God-given sex (male). I am happy being male and would not have it any other way. I am still celibate, because God has called me to it, in case anyone is wondering.

I no longer believe the things I posted here, unless some of them happen to be in line with Scripture and Church teaching. Some people here have sent me messages; to avoid any further misunderstandings, I have written this explanation in my signature.

The important thing for you to know is, I am so much happier as a Christian than I ever was prior to my conversion. Please do not be offended by my mentioning it.




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