Suicide

[violeteyedsoul]

I wonder why it is that so many of us at AVEN have or are contemplating suicide? Is it somehow linked to our asexuality, or are we just reflecting the statistics in the general population, and are more likely to be open her about our vulnerabilities because we have such an understanding audience?

I feel sad that so many of us are not enjoying life. I've been suicidal and joyful, and wish I could help others to climb out of the pit as I have.

How did you "climb out of the pit", as you put it?

[violeteyedsoul]

I wonder why it is that so many of us at AVEN have or are contemplating suicide? Is it somehow linked to our asexuality, or are we just reflecting the statistics in the general population, and are more likely to be open her about our vulnerabilities because we have such an understanding audience?

I feel sad that so many of us are not enjoying life. I've been suicidal and joyful, and wish I could help others to climb out of the pit as I have.

I'm just curious, but how did you "climb out of the pit", as you put it?

[isillote]

I climbed out with a variety of methods. I couldn't talk to anyone close to me, partly because I felt they'd trivialise my problems, and partly because some of them, albeit innocently, were contributing to the problem.

So I approached the charity MIND (in the UK), and had counselling for about a year. Talking about the problems with an impartial person pulled me out of the cycle of running through them in my head over and over and over. It was really difficult, and at first I felt worse, but in the long run it's helped a lot. It's good to talk to someone who is completely outside your life, and totally non-judgemental.

I also went to my doctor, and started taking anti-depressants. The first lot (Prozac) made me worse, the next lot helped once the dose was regulated. They pulled me up far enough to see that there could be an end to my complete despair. First of all they helped me just to function and get through the day, and then I would find that just momentarily I'd actually enjoyed an activity, or found myself looking forward to something. It was a slow process; it took me 2 years to recover completely.

Depression runs in my family, and I've dropped back a couple of times since, but never been as bad as I was the first time. This is partly because I recognise the warning signs and am not afraid to seek help, partly because I feel stronger having fought my way back to health, and know that depression is an illness, not a permanent state, and can be beaten. I also know now that life is really a wonderful thing. The joy of a sunset, the beauty of flowers, an interesting conversation....the world has so much to offer, and now I know that I'm damned if I'll let a chemical imbalance push me over the edge into suicide and deprive me of all those opportunities for happiness. I'm going to experience death anyway one day, but I want to make the most of the experience of life for as long as I have it.

If you feel I can help you in any way, by all means PM me, or ask questions on the thread.

I'd love to help others see what life has to offer. When you're at the bottom you feel no other place exists. I know now that's not true.

[CLF]

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[isillote]

Hi, CLF.

I REALLY can see where you're coming from in the not wanting to go out drinking and clubbing. I can't count the number of times I've been in the pub or club and suddenly found myself looking around from the outside as it were, and wondering what it is that all these people are actually enjoying, and wishing I could somehow tap into their happiness, instead of just feeling how pointless and futile it all is.

And yes, I have, and to a great extent still do feel cut off from people, almost as though I'm another species of some sort, trapped in a human body, and permanently searching for other beings like me, unsuccessfully.

I don't know anything about you, as your profile says very little. What is your idea of a good night out? As I've grown older, I've slowly built up a little circle of friends, some of whom have the same interests as me, but none of whom are like me. But they all accept me as I am (or accept the amount of me I reveal) and love me for it. And that's a good feeling.

Think about what you like to do, as I said, what your idea of a good night out is, and how to find others who feel the same way. They're out there, and probably hiding their alienation, just as I, and I'm sure you, do in public. There are a lot of us here in AVEN, which is a good start.

I'm glad you can appreciate the natural beauties of the world. There are other people out there like you, and you meet them in the most unlikely places. But you have to go out there to have a chance of meeting them. Sitting at home hermit-like will not do it. I've been there, I know.

Good luck.

[CLF]

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[isillote]

I know how you feel. I didn't meet any like-minded people through school or Uni, or many years of work. I was a bit more outgoing than you seem to be, or at least I was capable of coming across that way. What I think now, though, is that I was judging people too quickly, sort of -

'Oh look at that girl dancing on the table/singing karaoke/surrounded by lots of people/having a drinking competition....they're definitely not the sort of person I'd have anything in common with.'

I've danced on tables, had loads of acquaintances, had drinking competitions...etc. Yet I seem to be a person you could relate to on some levels. I love the theatre and the cinema, and quiet pubs too. When you go out, practice really watching people. Often what you see on the surface no way resembles the person underneath, who could be someone you could have an affinity with. Or not. But I think there are more people out there like you than you think. Talk to them. You don't have to trust them - I trust very few people, but give them a chance to show you the person inside. So many of us build walls to keep others out. The walls may be flashy and covered with fairy lights, or unobstrusive and dull. You have to open up a little bit if you want others to do the same. Just a little tiny bit, Not enough to get hurt, but enough to let people see a bit of who you are.

I don't know where you live in England, but there are Avenite meetings, maybe you could try one of those.

Good luck, you sound like a sensitive, deep person. There are others out there like you, hiding behind their walls. I hope you find some.

[Tanwen]

How did you "climb out of the pit", as you put it?

The Bhuddists say 'Each man must find his own path up the mountain' and each person suffering depression must find their own way out of the 'pit'. I've also read of it being like a room and the only door has no lock and the trick is to find first the lock and then the key.

My GP (at the time of the first bout) told me that many types of depression will improve on their own but the medication helps to get the mind in a state to deal with it.

Isi found counselling useful, I didn't. I was sent to a day hospital (not sure they still exist with all the NHS cut backs) where the patients helped each other more than the medical staff ever did!

Perhaps that's part of the answer. Fellow sufferers understand what a person is going through. No answers, no solutions just a sympathetic ear. I have also been able to stop pretending I am 'normal', my inability to form lasting relatinships has nothing to do with being 'frigid', it's just the way I am.

I would say things have improved so much that I was finally free of it - but then I thought that about the migraines that have also plagued me but which returned with a vengance this week. But now I don't fear the 'black dog' that has been snapping my heels all my life.

All things pass.

Tan

[twister]

What you describe above mostly applies to me too - even to the point where the phrase "people scare me" was something I used just a week or so ago. A cousin of mine who is always desperately trying to get me to socialise said I should do something every day that scares me and asked what did scare me. That phrase was my answer!!! I too hate pubs/clubs etc. I have at times stood in those places and thought "why are they all here and what makes them enjoy it?". The beauty of a star studded night sky or sunlight on the mountains or see - now that I can see the enjoyment in, but wouldn't it be nice to find someone who feels the same to share it with........

[Jin Kisaragi]

For some, life on the other side is 72 virgins. Do asexuals receive 72 virgins too? Isn't it amazing the crap that some people come up with?

Yeah, I've always wondered what "heaven" would be like for the Asexual Muslim. (Do they even exist?) Just this year and last year, the thought of suicide gave me joy, because of depression and school failures and other factors too probably. I don't look to worldly success or lots of friends for happiness, since I probably will never have those things, and I'm not really longing for it really. (I'm really introverted and somewhat anti-social) It was mostly inward and due to lots of brooding on my part. Sorry for rambling. But I think suicide as a permanent fix to temporary problems. It shouldn't be done, not only for preserving the life of yourself but for others too, unless that is who you are laying down your life for. (The greatest love is said to be when you would lay down your life for someone, hmm, do we know of any who did that? ;)) I wanted to, but I couldn't do it, I know I have a reason to be here, and my time will come when it comes.

PS, kind of funny on the topic of suicide, many who want to but don't say "I don't have the balls to kill myself." yet many people look at it as a cowardly act. Interesting..

[CLF]

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[Idedalus]

Was feeling ok for a bit - but feel i'm sinking down again now......maybe that's what happens when you try to connect with people and they try to help....does anyone else find that that actually makes you more depressed? because you're having to think about all the things bothering you again????

I think I've gone through this too. The way it worked with me is that certain events set off my depression. Then I tried to figure out the root causes of my depression, and those problems were pretty old. I had to reach out to other people for that. Once I started bringing up that old stuff again I felt worse. Also, I couldn't find anyone who could completely relate to what I was feeling. No matter what they would say, it wouldn't fix my problems.

One day I actually googled "life sucks". There is a website about life's suckiness!

I made some changes in my life and in my outlook and I'm feeling better for the moment. Coming out of it is different for everyone, I think, but I wish you the best. Tanwen gave a pretty good response about that.

[CLF]

thanks

[CLF]

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[Sally]

Dear CLF: You are right, nothing catastrophic will happen to the world if you (or any of us) would no longer be here, and someday we will not be here, simply through living out our lives, however long that will take.

And you have every right to feel that your feelings regarding suicide are more important than others' feelings.

However, having said that, and even though I don't know you, I would feel that the world has been deprived of a sensitive soul if you were to carry out your impulse. AND...we need every Asexual we can get! Who knows---maybe your "vote" makes us a majority!

I hope you stick around a while.

[osito]

Hi, CLF,

I, too, agree with your two points as reiterated by Sally. The world will carry on without you and you have a right to value your feelings highly.

My resistance to your suicidal thoughts--and I do not state it as a prerogative--comes from my fundamental certainty that we humans are evolving, and that right now, in these times of devastating social upheaval, individuals like you are having to shoulder a very painful load--one which comes as an almost unbearable sense of fragmentation and loss.

I know about this from a time in my past when I felt what I sense from you now.

Do I want to say: just hang in there and be patient; this too shall pass; if I got through it you will too...etc. Sure, of course I do.

But more importantly, by staying, you will be contributing to the path out that we evolving humans must find-- that of not only bearing but extracting a lesson from the suffering of loneliness, and of finding better ways of being social creatures. You might see this as of little consequence, but I don't. Whatever you might bring back from that terrible frontier is important to me, and to people you haven't yet met, and most especially to yourself.

It won't last forever. Its nature is to make you feel like it will, but it won't. And I also see hope in this:

I recently met this really nice American lady - i offered to show her around my town (she was on holiday) and i was invited to go out with her and some other girls from a forum board i visit.

What would have happened if you and she had gone out together, and you had been able to choreograph the tour of the town and share your favorite places and have some genuine camaraderie with her? That potential is nothing to dismiss; it is still yours, and still a source of strength and security for you. It's there waiting for another chance, and knowing that might give you the courage to grab that chance when it comes round again.

I guess i like have dinner with people, chatting, but then that makes the people you are with more important - so you need friends who you get on well with and have things you can talk about with.

They are important, but they are not more important than you are. What they facilitate is your own appreciation of yourself in a social setting, because even though you may see yourself as a loner you are still--like Bonobos are--hard-wired to be social. That doesn't have to mean going out clubbing and doing things that bore or annoy you; you have a right to say no to those things. But there are still some things that give you comfort and pleasure and a sense of belonging in the world. Isn't it true (you've said as much) that sometimes little windows open in the wall of your depression and you see out, albeit briefly?

Those are glimpses of your potential, and of your future. Meanwhile, build your bridges here and everywhere you can.

[catrinac]

Suicide has been on my "to do" list since the 80s but I never seem to get around to it. Although I know suicide is wrong I would have little guilt if I did do it. I only have one friend. My whole family has more or less abandoned me over the years; I haven't visited either parent since 2000 and don't get along with my sister or step dad. My one friend is a political/intellectual fanatic; whatever he thinks about anything is true. I've gone from one horrible job situation to the next and each job is worse than the last because of my social status due to not being married. I'm not kidding, the harassment is so bad I often don't even want to get out of bed in the morning. I'm exhausted from pre menopausal sleep loss and though I'm on OCs as a type of HRT my pills are not working. I got a bad nose job in 2005; I haven't looked in the mirror in years and don't care anymore what I look like, since I don't have the money to fix it anyway. I have nothing to look forward... kids, retirement, nothing.... I'm an outcast, I'm not pretty, I don't have friends. The nightmare began in the mid 80s and has never ended. It's not worth it anymore dammit! If I kill myself it's my own fucking business and loss, not anyone else's. I'm set on two different methods, one involves a gun. That is too scary so I go through the motions every day and pretend to be happy even though I'm not. I got a good hair cut yesterday, that gave me hope and made me think maybe I'd want to live but then last night I wasn't able to sleep so I skipped work today... and on and on and on. It's the same fucking story since highschool, college and beyond. Nothing has changed!!! I would be so relieved if I was dead. I shouldn't tell anyone this but I've kind of gotten a sign that it's OK if I end it all. My situation has a terminal quality to it anyway. I'll reincarnate with similar conditions at some point in the future and try again. I've reached a breaking point where I'm not making any good karma and probably even making a lot of bad. It's not worth it to me. Suicide is considered a sin but it shouldn't be. In some cases it is totally warranted.

[Tool1989]

:( Will all of you feel better if I gave each of you a hug and a present for easter? :)

[Shinnok]

:( Will all of you feel better if I gave each of you a hug and a present for easter? :)

I didn't know this many people were....well, thought this good about suicide. I don't mean to make anyone feel bad but I just can't believe everyone..mostly wants to do it or have wanted to. I'm not going to be a hypocrite this situation, in my preteens, I really could only think about death and how nice it owuld be. Preteen years to me sucked so royally and to me they were way worse then even normal teen years. I'm still going through teen years but the situations coming up are not as hard. Orientation and gender issues I can work out. I'm christian. I won't preach to everyone. But all I can say is this....Everyone was put here on this earth for a reason. We weren't put on this earth just to suffer. That's just not how it is. I've been through my share of tough times to but I never lost hope because I always hung onto this hope and that's "Everything always gets better in the end. It never can get so bad you can't handle it. It truely is the darkest before dawn." I've been there a few times. It is true. Just when things seem to be going to crap everything seems to perk up somehow. It happens. Now, I'm not trying to force anything upon anyone but I just wnat everyone to think about it first at least. Suicide isn't the way....I agree, if we could hug everyone here, would it make you guys feel better? Easter's coming up, that's a good holiday.

[CLF]

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[cait]

Umm ... .wow ... I completely disagree with you there CLF.

Man, I feel down sometimes, but I never think "I Don't have a purpose" I don't think our purpose is necessarily glamorous or anything. But we all have a purpose. Hell, even my cat has a purpose. She's the best.

But then ... I totally do understand that people can be in a particular state of mind that causes suicidal thoughts and well .. suicide.

I don't pose to understand death though, so I am not going to attempt it. I just don't feel that is my place. and it is my duty to be alive for ... whatever reason ... I don't need to know the big details myself to enjoy it.

[Kelly]

:( Will all of you feel better if I gave each of you a hug and a present for easter? :)

I will feel better.

*hugs Tool1989* :)

[Tanwen]

Love group hugz...

*Tan waves at Kells*

[Næt.]

I was suicidal at one point, but I just could not be arsed to actually do it.

Yay for indolence, cause now everything's picked up.!

(caution, Dark Sense of Humour Ahead! You have been warned!)

But, I had the best suicide note planned!

See, I figured I'd hang myself, and I'd write "How much rope do you need to hang someone? A killer-metre!"

Oh the wit.

(DSOH over.)

[Haunter]

My condolences, don't you have any nephews/nieces or other relatives or other children that you can be a 'generous aunt' to?

Being a Auntie to someone elses kids is not the same as being a mother. I come from a large family but my sister is sterile due to the Endometriosis too. My eldest brother is mildly retarded and in a institution, my second eldest brother is an Epiletic and the drugs he takes caused him to be sterile. My third eldest brother married a woman that had to have a hysterectomy before they met, and my youngest brother is very slow but functioning and is a 33 year old virgin, living with my parents, and looking for the right girl. I think he will meet her at a senior citizens dance some day. So none of my siblings have offspring. :cry:

Perhaps human cloning will be made legal in the next 25 years... Would you consider a child cloned from your DNA your own?

[hoku]

I have conflicting thoughts about it all.

When I was younger, I thought my life was crap and the world would be better off without me. Now, I realize that while some things were, indeed, not good back then, I was still a lucky person to have what I did.

After a great loss in my family, I realized how people will feel when I am gone because I have felt that myself when I lost someone I loved and seen how that person's death affected all of us. I know my family loves me and losing me will be just as difficult. Despite my life reeling into an even greater depression since that person's death and me wanting to die just to stop the pain and possibly seeing them again if there is some sort of afterlife, I can't put my family through the pain of losing someone again. That is the only thing stopping me.

I think the person I lost had a huge purpose on this earth, but even if someone does not improve the quality of life for the general public or contributes in some way to society, it's still very likely that they serve a purpose for those who love them. So purpose or not, we are not just like animals - we form emotional attachments to other people and losing someone is painful.

[Shinnok]

Umm ... .wow ... I completely disagree with you there CLF.

Man, I feel down sometimes, but I never think "I Don't have a purpose" I don't think our purpose is necessarily glamorous or anything. But we all have a purpose. Hell, even my cat has a purpose. She's the best.

But then ... I totally do understand that people can be in a particular state of mind that causes suicidal thoughts and well .. suicide.

I don't pose to understand death though, so I am not going to attempt it. I just don't feel that is my place. and it is my duty to be alive for ... whatever reason ... I don't need to know the big details myself to enjoy it.

Yeah..at least someone relates.

[catrinac]

I thought I'd posted on this thread already. I've been planning my suicide since the 80s but have never followed through on it. Seriously, once you get to be pushing 40 and asexual and don't have SOMETHING in your life to hold you together-- a great job, good money, people in your life who care about you, a place to call home, a good look, meaningful outlets/hobbies, etc. life gets pretty boring and stale. I personally have almost no commitment to creating a better life at this stage in the game. I'm totally disconnected and feel my asexuality is the main reason. The U.S. is a hugely sexual society. It's fine to dabble around in the whole asexual thing in your 20s as a "lifestyle" choice but you have no idea how fucking hard it is once you get older. I never planned to be poor, living in a studio alone with no friends and few options. This is never what I envisioned for myself because I never factored in exactly how much being celibate, asocial and asexual would affect the rest of my life. It has and now I want out. If it didn't involve a gun or violence I would already be dead. I would have bailed 10 years ago. The drugs necessary to properly kill oneself are difficult to get ahold of without prescriptions from a psychiatrist. I've been through enough humiliation and pain. What hurts most is that nothing changed or got better---- my life is almost EXACTLY like it was 20 years ago. It's like I've been living the same goddamned script out over and over, year after year. I'm bored senseless and fatigued.

[Sally]

Catrinac: You are a really good writer. I have pretty high standards for writing and you meet them. I hope you can stand to stick around for a while longer. I understand exactly what you mean about how difficult it is to obtain and/or carry out the methods of suicide; sometimes I think that's what has kept me here. One of the things make continued life a little more worth it is listening to people who cut through the bullshit. More posts from you, please. Pick any of the topics on the Older Asexual forum; just write!

[starcat]

I tried the suicide path in my teens. Bottle of pills. NOT the way to go. I lost my eye sight for a week and spent 2 months in recovery hell. Then a year of therapy. What I found scary, was after I took the pills, my body went into survival mode. It wanted to live, even if my brain didn't. I ran, staggered, crawled to my nearest friend's house. Everything after that was blurred broken images, pain, then nothing. I woke 2 days later in a children's hospital.

I have contemplated suicide a few times since then, I would never follow through, but the thoughts still appear occasionally. My reasons for leaving is a well thought out decision that I should be entitled to have. But the scare of what my body does while trying, is enough to thwart any attempts.

Why is it we can be so humane to our pets and have them "put to sleep" yet so in-humane to our fellow man? If we feel it's our time to go, we should be allowed to go. In the most easiest, safest, and painless way.

But alas...we must endure this world and all in it. We must die the honorable (and painful) way through accident or disease. I do have many things to live for. I can see a future of happy memories. But when it comes right down to it....it's me I have to live with and endure. I need to focus every day on the good things in life and those around me. Very difficult to keep that up day after day and not think of one's self...but I do...and it's for those around me that I do. But if they ever legalize the "sleep shot"...I would get in line.