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my 2¢ worth


Tay

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I've never been molested.

I'm not involved in any clubs.

I'm not a freak (I don’t even know what that word means).

I'm not vindictive due to a bad relationship that drove me to vent my frustration by creating a crusade that screams attention.

I'm not going to 'fill a void' by joining the wiccans.

I'm not pissed off.

I don't wear a badge of pain to parade around for you to notice.

I'm not waiving a rainbow flag, getting married before G*d, or even protesting for equal rights.

I'm not going to press.

I'm not going to yell.

I am in control. Complete control.

I am aware of what is and will always be.

I am...asexual.

__________________________________________________________

The best homosexuals are silent. They don't talk, they live as they please. And bless them for it.

The greatest heterosexuals walk without banners. And bless them for it.

And the most successful asexuals are too busy doing other things to notice this, for they've already been blessed.

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The best homosexuals are silent. They don't talk, they live as they please. And bless them for it.

Ah well, we can't agree on everything... :? *rankle* *fume*

But anyway, welcome to AVEN!! Stick around and have a blast :)

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Tay, thanks for joining! I am definitly with you on the "(a)sexuality is best when it's silent" quote in your signature. ...Which is actually a bit paradox because AVEN is the Asexuality VISIBILITY and EDUCATION Network, so actually this board is meant to say: "We are here!" But personally, I think it's best to just live your life normally without taking part in all those activism movements. I hate activism! It goes against my grain and it's almost embarrassing. This board though is not about activism anyway, it's about learning who you are and learning about others, in my book.

So again: Welcome and stick around for fun! :D

Skiddaloxx

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I'm not vindictive due to a bad relationship that drove me to vent my frustration by creating a crusade that screams attention.

I used to know someone who stalked me to here, who used those very words in a telephone call to me. Someone, I spoke to about molestation I had been at the receiving end of, someone who is a Wiccan, someone called Tammy and someone who always uses the term "2 cents worth".

Very sad indeed :(

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Hi Tay, welcome. Yes, you said it very well. I say the same thing about a banner and badge. I thank God for AVEN every day and if there are lectures and such, I'll be there if I can.

I don't feel the rest of the world is entitled to know about my sexuality unless it's relevant to what we're doing. As it is, when someone just plunks down next to me and tells me their sex life I'm embarrassed and quite often ask why they're telling me.

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This is funny.

1) My entry was tongue-in-cheek. If anything, I was just showing the irony in going to a group of individuals as an asexual and talking with those who talk about it rather than just do (or not do, as it were). Like I said, I've never been in a situation that compromises my safety or welfare, so I guess can't see the point in talking about or needing support with something that is not done.

I get the feeling that there are far more complex issues being discussed than simply asexuality. It's like the "meaning of life" question. Nobody ever wants to know the answer to that question. It's always asked because of a more specific problem that they have. Which is fine; I see no harm with that. More power to you if you find your answer. I just don't see the reason for masquerading it as a sexual preference.

2) (here's where the 2 cents part comes in) I don't agree with this only because equality dictates it. What I was saying was that for those who are "treated equally" sexuality is never an issue for one reason: they never talk about it. And they're never proud of it, they just live it (same with ANY sexual preference). And if you are being discriminated against then you never have anyone to blame but yourself.

My mother and father were always treated equally and I'm sure that's because they never bought a car and starting making out during the paperwork. Like I said, no banners, no badges. How is one prevented from doing something that others don't know about? It's not a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy. It's a 'just shut up and move' suggestion.

Try it once. You'll be amazed how your 'equality' blossoms.

If it's no one's business then it's your responsibility to keep it that way. No one else is going to do it for you-they're too busy with their own life.

3) "Hats?" I'm male. However I'm sorry for your loss.

4) I don't mind talking about why I feel it shouldn't be talked about. I just don't like talking about it. (that made me giggle)

5) _________End transmission___________

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Welcome to AVEN, Tay :D Have a great time here :)

What I see the problem being, concerning equality, is that when people do know, then there is discrimination. Yeah, if people don't know, no problem is seen, but I believe that there still is a problem underlying that, because of what happens when and if people find out. While I don't especially like people who go around telling everybody their sexual orientation (why should I care about that?), I also believe that we can't solve a problem we're not willing to talk about.

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In a perfect world, everyone could be silent.

Unfortunately, our current state of affairs is far from that case.

I can only imagine what things would be like now if blacks and women were silent, and viewed discrimination as "their own fault."

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Tongue in cheek or not, many of your points were valid.

People are on this support board for many reasons. Some use it for amusement (kinda' immature but some do) some are just curious, as you seem to be, some need to sound off because there's nobody else who understands them. It's very awkward to be the "wierd" one and sometimes when I'm feeling weak about myself people manage to convince me that I am. I like the board because I see there are other people who remind me that it's of no consequence to me what other people think. The people here remind me that I'm doing fine.

I like it because they're friends who won't go into heat and dump me. I've found out that you can't get that in any other circle. God knows I've tried but being different, they drop ya'.

A lot of us on here have only that one thing in common, otherwise we wouldn't be in the same circle. On this board, that doesn't matter either. Just like the people I work with, we have the job in common, otherwise I wouldn't see them at all.

So yeah, if you want to talk about 'other problems' - when you consider feeling like you have to 'hide', family disapproval, being analysed/dissected, people wanting to "cure" you, people not believing you exist etc. etc then yeah, there are other problems and some of them relate to being asexual, others are totally unconnected - just like most social circles so of course it gets addressed here.

I don't know about the others but it's not that I don't want asexuality to be ignored, I think it needs to be acknowledged - but as in education, not demonstration. (I'm not a fan of demonstrations, I feel it creates negative publicity). I don't intend on telling people I just meet about my sexuality, any more than I would tell them about my hyst or how many fillings I've got in my teeth but if the topic should come up, I appreciate if they accept it, or piss off but don't sit there and tell me there's something wrong with me.

To me what's important that my sexual orientation doesn't make a difference to people I meet. I want, when I meet a guy for him to recognise me without using his dick as a sensor. I want to meet a woman who doesn't mind a close relationship without it being sexual. I want friends who won't figure I'll understand because they no longer want to see me because they met someone who is good in bed. I can SHARE my friends but being totally ignored because I won't screw someone or because someone else will.

So, take us as you will, be it amusement, curiosity, empathy - whatever, everyone is welcome here.

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Cijay, you are saying all the right things!!! I have rarely agreed more with someone here than in this discussion. And I sympathize with Tay's arguements as well!!

Tay wrote:

I guess I can't see the point in talking about or needing support with something that is not done.

I agree with 97%. A few weeks ago I posted something about that very fact, but unfortunately it got lost/deleted. I remember writing that Asexuality "does not exist". But not in the sense that we are liars, but I was just trying to express that it's an orientation that can only be explained with it's opposite: sex(uality)! "Asexual: A person who does not experience sexual attraction." So if an asexual person was growing up in the jungle, never having met another person, this person wouldn't even know that asexuality exists, and simply because he doesn't know that sexuality exists. Although this doesn't count vica versa, because Sexuality doesn't need Asexuality to be proven that it exists. Also the NOT in the definition of asexual is something I am ambigous towards. An orientation built up on something we "don't" do? It's strange. So are we asexual or do we just do all the normal things except for sex. Is this really an orienation with a shape or is it "nothing"?

Because sex is such a massive monster and one of the most achievable status symbols of today, it's no suprise that all of us felt completly alien and confused because sex is something that we just don't want or see the point in. So it was a big sign of relief that this group took its form and place. Gosh I can't even find the right words to get all the things in my head out of the system...umm..yeah, you are right: Why focus on something we don't do?! It's almost ridiculous how many topics here are about sex, when we are actually all about asex (which doesn't really exist....what is asex?!). It goes hand in hand with the complaining about sexuals (sounds like another species, no?) which is, imho, just bollocks, but okay...I understand that sometimes we need to get our anger out and the frustrations. Yet this does not change our situation at all. If we want respect, we are the ones who have to give it ourselves first. And also we need to respect others.

Tay wrote:

for those who are "treated equally" sexuality is never an issue for one reason: they never talk about it. And they're never proud of it, they just live it (same with ANY sexual preference)

Absolutely! I don't want anyone to come up to me, going: "Good Day! I am heterosexual!" If this is, what those activists want, then good night. Actions speak louder than words, meaning that you have to live the respect, the equality and the normalness if you want it. Not preach about it and shout if from bandwagons on a parade.

Of course it's not so easy, and actually it's a big challenge, but we have to be courageous enough, and strong enough to just live life normally. If we run around with flags and banners, it's only a sign of aggressivenss and arrogance and in my opinion it has little to do with asexuality itself. It's just another political movement then. So if sexual people try to get us laid or something, we have to make it clear unmistakably that we are not interested. We won't change sexuals because it's their nature to want to get laid and have a go. Don't take it personally, but accept it as a fact. It's crucial that we understand it as part of their nature. And if we attract idiots then it's our own responsibilty, because it means that we haven't expressed ourselves clearly!

Cijay wrote:

...it (asexuality) needs to be acknowledged - but as in education, not demonstration.

Exactly! What do asexuals have to demonstrate against anyway?? Against sex?? For the right to not have sex?? I mean, Come on! Ridiculous!! Like Cijay said, people need to be educated about the subject, that's why it was brilliant that the Discovery Channel approached us and made a documentary about asexuality. That has much more effect and is 50 times better than any demonstration, because they create a bitter taste in people's minds. The documentary, on the other side, is serious and pure information, not show-off.

Okay, enough written.

Thanks for listening. It got a bit off topic but it was very important to get that off my chest.

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Like I said, I've never been in a situation that compromises my safety or welfare, so I guess can't see the point in talking about or needing support with something that is not done.

i'm kinda confused here...if you don't need support and don't want to talk about it, why are you here? don't get me wrong, we always welcome new people, i just think you've started off being rather...accusatory, in telling us you don't think asexuality is something that warrants us needing support. (if i've read this wrong, please let me know.)

all i know is, i agree with this:

I can only imagine what things would be like now if blacks and women were silent, and viewed discrimination as "their own fault."
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inanechild wrote:

I can only imagine what things would be like now if blacks and women were silent, and viewed discrimination as "their own fault."

Uh-boy. :roll:

One can tell if someone is black.

One can tell if someone is female.

One cannot tell where someone sticks their winky. (And I think I'll let you figure out why not.)

If one person here even thinks of comparing the plight of those of African decent with that of sexual preference I'm going to puke. It's not even close. I'm not of African decent and even I'm offended by that one.

i'm kinda confused here...if you don't need support and don't want to talk about it, why are you here? don't get me wrong, we always welcome new people, i just think you've started off being rather...accusatory

There were no accusations of any kind. More than anything, there was a question of why someone would need support for something that is hardly evident in the first place. If it's not visible How would they know? And, more importantly, if it's no one's business why would one tell?

It seems that a few of you got my (highly simple) point I wrote in my first entry about underlying issues that really don't have much to do with sexual preferences at all. And for that, I'm greatful. But I do find it amazing how defensive some people get when you don't accept a few empty clichés they spit out. I'll let you in on a little secret: there are 6 billion+ individuals on this planet and we all have our own thought(s). So until Mars can be renovated, you're stuck with us.

This topic seems to have turned towards discrimination. And that's fine. I don't mind that. But it seems that they only discrimination here has to do with potential friends finding out about your sexual preference which may result in them 'dumping' you.

So be it.

If they can't have a relationship because you're not willing to play a 'rousing game of "poke the whiskers" then I doubt they're friend-material in the first place. Open your eyes and realise that they're doing you a favour by showing you who they really are. That way instead of sulking about being 'dumped,' you can use that time to find someone better. I can assure you, this method works.

And don’t give me that garbage that you can't find good friends because they all want to fuck you. That is insane. If you can't find a friend to just talk with then the issue has nothing to do with your sexual preference. Just remember that there is only one thing that all your bad relationships have in common: you.

Skiddaloxx wrote:

Also the NOT in the definition of asexual is something I am ambiguous towards. An orientation built up on something we "don't" do? It's strange. So are we asexual or do we just do all the normal things except for sex. Is this really an orientation with a shape or is it "nothing"?

First, to answer the question: it is nothing. Second, you've hit it right on the head. I agree completely in that you can't argue for (or against) something that doesn't exist in the first place. That is unless you shoot your mouth off... :lol:

Quick thought here-- I can already hear the taping of keyboards with this one so let me just make something clear before you start on your rebuttal:

I was never a fan of this "either-you're-with-us-or-against-us" stance. The Hippies tried that in the 60's and shot themselves in the foot with it. No one ever takes hypocrisy seriously so now the only thing hippies get is pity. Exclusion is the one thing I would think asexuals would be against.

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my question of "why are you here if you don't need support?" was still not answered...but that's cool. to the rest of it, i only say i have no comment. i bid this thread adieu.

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I kinda have to agree with fluffy_hime-- if you don't want to talk about it why are you here? I have seen bi people as well as asexual people who go on about how activism is arrogant or useless, and, well, the specific bi people I have met who said this usually were in heterosexual relationships at the time. They didn't need any activism because they could pass as straight; well, bully for them.

We face a lot more of the same crap that previous groups faced, than a lot of us realize-- maybe people don't notice because the "unearned privilege" of sexual relationships gets into high gear in your late 20's and many people here are younger. We face endlessly being told that our relationships are "immature" or "uncommitted" no matter how long we've been together, because they're "just" friendships (much like even 50 year old black men were called "boy" in the old South). We face people distrusting our intentions in close friendships because we "must really want sex if we feel so strongly about somebody"-- I've had somebody who meant the world to me disown me because his wife saw me as a "threat," and that's real pain.

We can avoid some of this by "passing" and having sexual dating relationships-- i.e., having sex against our will. Oh, what joy!

A lot of the troubles of having an asexual life in America are things that everybody faces, and asexuals are like the "canaries in the coal mine"-- for example, the rude and uncommitted way many people treat their friends, or the expectation that you can only confer health benefits on your "exclusive partner" rather than on blood relatives or friends. We are more sensitive to these issues, but in the long run-- if we engage in activism-- even "sexual" people will benefit from being able to take friendship more seriously and having true freedom of choice in how they form households. People in other countries already take friendship more seriously, for example, even if they're "sexual." They don't base health insurance on who you're sleeping with, either.

Activism is what gets us from here to there, ugly as it may be. Would I like to just go live with a close friend and maybe her (or his) partner in a quiet little town and help them raise their kid? Sure, but how likely is that in a society where everybody is pressured to think of isolated nuclear families as the only "mature" solution?

I think we should all thank AVENguy and others who put up this site for sticking their necks out and being obnoxiously activist, rather than quietly "passing" and faking an interest in sex so they could have serious relationships. Thanks to them, maybe future generations won't have to fake it.

Dave

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This is different than racism and different than sexism, but it still is civil rights, and is still vital to achieve.

One cannot tell where someone sticks their winky.

Of course one can't (unless, of course someone tells you), however, people do try to guess/assume. I'm not saying this is the way it should be, in a perfect world sexuality wouldn't really exist as a concept, and it wouldn't matter. And assuming someone is not hetero can cause problems.

People are killed because they aren't hetero. I don't think that makes this anywhere close to a minor issue.

Also, in our world today, sexuality is a big issue. It shouldn't be, but it is. Ignoring that it has as much influence as it does I doubt is going to bring about any change. I think people get sick of trying to be set up, and constantly being questioned about why we're not in relationships. Yeah, for some of staying out of direct sight makes our lives easier, and yeah we won't face discrimination if we stay out of the way, but there are others of us who don't want to stay out of society completely, and then we do get the nagging. Having more people realize that asexuality exists (which it does, if you say any other orientation exists), will result in fewer people telling us to live our lives differently than we want to. If people don't know asexuality exists, then they're more likely to see you as having a problem, and in need of help. This is why I see visability as being very important, even if you aren't affected by society, others are.

I believe that as people begin to see how complex sexuality is, and how it really is a gradient, and not just poles, people will become more accepting of all different types of sexuality, and eventually sexuality won't really have much importance, if any in how one is viewed.

Also, homophobic language is used a lot as insults or descriptions of things people don't like. Unless attention is brought to this, it's just going to continue and get worse. This language contributes to people who are not hetero feeling upset about who they are. I don't think think people should have to emotionally suffer for their sexuality, and therefore I feel that it is important to try and prevent the suffering. One of the three things that all of the school shooters (in the US) shared was that they had been accused of being gay/lesbian, even if they weren't.

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Okay, so I'll start "taping" on the keys. Tay/galdalf (I'm suspecting a trend here), you're saying it's not evident and nobody knows if we don't tell them. It's only not evident to you and outsiders, it's evident to us every time they try to fix us up with one more friend of their. Every time someone at a wedding asks "when is it your turn?" (honest to shit I'm going to take the advice of asking people that at funerals), it's there when you're in high school every time someone starts embarrassing stories of 'Who would you do?' type of games. It's there every time someone asks "what's wrong with you?" It's there when you look in the mirror and ask "what's wrong with me?"

Unfortunately, one CAN tell where they stick their winkie, and they do tell...I, for one, would like them to stop.

21 years is a long time for a friendship and he's a dear friend, just somewhat distracted by what comes naturally and he aint' gettin' from me. My point when I bring it up is that I'm sad because he's not around is all. I'm not calling him down, I just miss him because we did a lot of things together. One would think it shouldn't make much difference but from 41 years on this planet, it does. Every time. So you see why I'm seeing asexual friends. Not to talk about asexuality all the time but so that I don't have to worry about becoming invisible suddenly. I don't go around saying "I'm Cijay and I'm asexual..." and the bar scene is just crawling with men who see a single woman as an invitation for a fuck. So, just where would I meet these people?

You probably don't realise it but nobody on this board talks about the issue 24/7, it's just that this is what the board is for. Obviously you're enjoying it tho' so by all means, make yourself comfortable. I've many interests, I talk to my fellow Broadway fans, it's not like I go singing soundtracks all day or force other people to go to the sites I like, it's just the topic of conversation while I'm there. Ah, never mind, you won't get it. You know the saying, "don't try to teach a pig to sing, you waste your time and you annoy the pig."

There, I'll stop "taping" now. I'm sorry you got dragged onto this board and are being held here against your will amongst us confused people.

I, too, bid adieu. Later - "gandalf/Tay"

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Welcome Tay, and thanks for the clarification. I'd personally rather leave the 'with-us-or-against-us' rhetoric to Karl Rove and the Office of Strategic Plans. I've got no fundamental beef whatsoever with anyone who identifies as asexual and has the linguistic chops to back up what they say.

If anything, I was just showing the irony in going to a group of individuals as an asexual and talking with those who talk about it rather than just do (or not do, as it were).

And those who know me are aware that I love irony almost as much as breakfast. Funny thing, that darn Internet. Helped the whole world explode into a billion narrow interest groups. That's a part of what's going on here, but the far larger part is simply a matter of 'like seeking like.' I'm old enough that I tend to see AVEN as a social club that just happens to revolve around a heretofore-unexamined corner of queer theory; yes, its roots are in academe and (somewhat) in identity politics - a term with which I still haven't really come to grips, btw - but I ultimately stay around because of the character, intelligence, and humor of the people I've met here.

You can find ideology and semantic hair-splitting anywhere you look, including here, but I've enjoyed the combination of stories, sociological debate (e.g. what exactly is sex, inter alia), and goofiness which all play a part. I've been asexual and self-reliant for a very long time, but I'm not about to give up on the idea of fun, either.

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Rock on, Bishop.

You probably don't realise it but nobody on this board talks about the issue 24/7...

Of course not. And you know what that's called when you don't?

Life.

You see this behavior in nightclubs, concerts, parties, all over the place. Asexuals are way more present then you might think. If people want to make a cult out of this, go ahead. Everyone's got a crusade. But what good comes out of stating the mindfull obvious?

I've had somebody who meant the world to me disown me because his wife saw me as a "threat," and that's real pain.

Like I said, anyone who asks what the meaning of life is is never interested in the answer. They ask it for ulterior reasons. Thanks for proving that.

Every time someone at a wedding asks "when is it your turn?" (honest to shit I'm going to take the advice of asking people that at funerals), it's there when you're in high school every time someone starts embarrassing stories of 'Who would you do?' type of games. It's there every time someone asks "what's wrong with you?" It's there when you look in the mirror and ask "what's wrong with me?"

good grief...

Do you know how many times I've been caught in conversations with other men and wind up saying "yeah, you're right. She does have a nice ass" or "uh-huh. I'd defiantly hit that whilst looking in the direction of a big-titted lass."? More than I can remember. But you know not one of them has called my bluff and said "ok then, why don't you nail her..right here and now?" Girls giggle and guys chuckle. They take your business as seriously as they do the ozone layer. If anything, they're just glad it's not them. And, in all seriousness, if you've ever asked yourself "what's wrong with me?" then an internet thread forum is clearly not a proper place for you to be looking for help. You may think consolation among "your people" is a remedy, but I'm quite sure there are deeper problems that are being neglected. And that's not an insult, that's friendly advice. I don't want anyone to feel like that.

I kinda have to agree with fluffy_hime-- if you don't want to talk about it why are you here?

Again--I don't mind talking about why I feel it shouldn't be talked about. I just don't like talking about it. (I love that sentence.)

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Tay, slow it down! I understand what you mean but we don't understand what's the point in signing into a forum where you can see that people are talking about the stuff that you think it's a waste of time talking about. Don't get me wrong, I agree on a lot you've mentioned, but we don't need preaching! And we don't need someone new to tell us what to do or not to do. Maybe we aren't as far as you are....apparently you have no problem with "sexuals" or "sex society pressures". Fine! But many of us are still in that phase where we have to struggle with them. And everybody here has a different way of handling the situation. Some see activism as a profitable tool, others (like me) like a "internal quiet revolution" to take action. Whatever the right recipe might be, the most important thing is to never lose sight of what is important: the character. So maybe you've had a bit of an unsuccessfull lift-off here, but I'm only citing you when I say: it's your own responsibility.

So wether you're gandalf, mordred, or any other troll or not, in my opinion you still made some very good points!

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VivreEstEsperer

This is the most controversial welcome thread I've ever seen...I agree with everything that Skidd said in the last post...nothing much more for me to add. Without activism, people who need a voice would not have a voice. That's all I'm going to say.

Kate

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