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Honesty vs Sympathy


Evil

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30 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

"I've been too depressed to leave my house for three days."

"Wow, that's dysfunctional and you need to get help, big time."

"I'm already on medication. It's just a slump."

"You're obviously not taking the right meds, then. You need to get your shit together."

"I'm going to go back to bed to hide from this."

I see what you are trying to say but in this scenario, the person is just being an arsehole. Being blunt and honest ≠ being an arsehole.

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3 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

The blunt honesty is that people arguing for blunt honesty want to pretend they are truthful to themselves at all times, and thus better than others. I hate bullshit coddling as much as the next person, but I'm not going to replace it with performative badassery at the expense of people at their vulnerable moments.

I don't think so. I rather have someone tell me where i'm close at at my most vunerable moment rather then them coddling me with sugarcoated sympathy because i'm sensitive and can't handle stuff. Nobody prides themselves in pretending they are truthful to themselves at all times thus better then others at the expense of people at their vunerable moments when dishing out sympathy, they need to hear someone cares about them and that they should seek help whenever available.  That's not replacing bullshit coddling with performative badassery at the expense of people at their vunerable moments, that's making sure there are checks and balances wich is a human thing to do and not someone being "Badass". Everyone has their own preferences when it comes to sympathy. I prefer mine to be well balanced, shaken and running over. Others prefer it to be on a golden plate, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

TLDR: Being blunt and honest doesn't make you an arsehole, nor does it make you a "badass", making sure there are checks and balances doesn't make you look like you're better then others either.

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14 minutes ago, Evil said:

I see what you are trying to say but in this scenario, the person is just being an arsehole. Being blunt and honest ≠ being an arsehole.

Some people who are being arseholes do so under the guise of being "bluntly honest" (in which case we should be blunt and honest in calling them arseholes, I guess :P ). This topic reminds me of a Simpsons moment... 

 

 

 

 


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I would imagine many of us have seen that kind of thing. :P

 

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42 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

Some people who are being arseholes do so under the guise of being "bluntly honest" (in which case we should be blunt and honest in calling them arseholes

I will concede that xD

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I find it quite interesting on how those who prefer bluntness and honesty are “arseholes” in disguise” while they aren’t if they sugarcoat everything and bring it on a golden plate :rolleyes: 

 

Well, that’s “Badass”... XD Eh, I mean: an Interesting theory :P 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Jayce said:

I find it quite interesting on how those who prefer bluntness and honesty are “arseholes” in disguise” while they aren’t if they sugarcoat everything and bring it on a golden plate :rolleyes: 

 

Well, that’s “Badass”... XD Eh, I mean: an Interesting theory :P 

Arseholes can also sugarcoat things, but don't you think they'd be less likely to do so when they have a conveniently handy excuse of "telling it like it is"? People who sugarcoat might also be their own kind of manipulative two-face, don't get me wrong. Honesty is good. Glorifying the blunt or brutal kind is not necessary.

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9 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

Arseholes can also sugarcoat things, but don't you think they'd be less likely to do so when they have a conveniently handy excuse of "telling it like it is"? People who sugarcoat might also be their own kind of manipulative two-face, don't get me wrong. Honesty is good. Glorifying the blunt or brutal kind is not necessary.

The first part of your post: I agree but the bolded: I do not. You can be blunt without being an arsehole.Wich reminds me of this:

 

a-blunt-a-day-keeps-the-worries-away-quo

 

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14 minutes ago, Jayce said:

The first part of your post: I agree but the bolded: I do not. You can be blunt without being an arsehole.Wich reminds me of this:

 

a-blunt-a-day-keeps-the-worries-away-quo

 

That kind of blunt is more likely going to produce a "Let's just all be friends, man, and order some tacos" than "Your haircut is atrocious, like what were you thinking." :D

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1 minute ago, Snao Cone said:

That kind of blunt is more likely going to produce a "Let's just all be friends, man, and order some tacos" than "Your haircut is atrocious, like what were you thinking." :D

Taco’s? I’m game! XD 

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actually I'd rather be completely ignored until I'm done ranting about shit

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1 hour ago, fiѕh said:

actually I'd rather be completely ignored until I'm done ranting about shit

Yes, this. While the person I'm ranting to is making tacos.

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11 hours ago, sea-lemon said:

If the problem is something that's upsetting me, I much prefer sympathy and kindly delivered honesty - if someone's being bluntly, I take that as them being rude and/or dismissive, and I'm just going to end up getting even more upset, and that won't help anything.

Hmmm... I always took the expression "blunt" as the opposite of "beating around the bush". I'm a huge fan of getting to the point quickly and it'd be suspicious if you (general you, of course :)) try to tiptoe around what you actually want to say. So I just don't see the expression as inherently negative. Is there something I miss?

 

Personally I'd ask someone for personal advice if I consider them to be my friend. That means that I assume whatever they say to have good intentions by default. This might not work every single time and you may still end up hurt in the process, but since we're friends, we get the chance to sort things out. My approach is to put everything on the table and work from there.

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6 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

How about:

 

"I've been too depressed to leave my house for three days."

"Wow, that's dysfunctional and you need to get help, big time."

"I'm already on medication. It's just a slump."

"You're obviously not taking the right meds, then. You need to get your shit together."

"I'm going to go back to bed to hide from this."

 

Versus:

 

"I've been too depressed to leave my house for three days."

"That sucks. I know it's hard to build up motivation when your brain is holding you back, but you're going to make it through this. Don't feel ashamed. So many people go through the same thing."

"Thanks...if the sky clears up this afternoon maybe I'll go for a walk and get some sunlight."

 

Also...if your house is on fire you should call 911 (or 999 or whatever is the emergency number) because the fire department will have more effective tools than a garden hose. :P

I used lean beef for that post. I know things aren't usually so cut and dry with some people.

 

I'd call 911 or the obnoxiously long town specific fire hall number but I'd have to fight the fire with a garden hose for an hour before the nearest department could drive out to my location. Good thing my super special garden hose has different spray functions like fine mist so I can moisturize my home in style.

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1 hour ago, Homer said:

Hmmm... I always took the expression "blunt" as the opposite of "beating around the bush". I'm a huge fan of getting to the point quickly and it'd be suspicious if you (general you, of course :)) try to tiptoe around what you actually want to say. So I just don't see the expression as inherently negative. Is there something I miss?

 

Personally I'd ask someone for personal advice if I consider them to be my friend. That means that I assume whatever they say to have good intentions by default. This might not work every single time and you may still end up hurt in the process, but since we're friends, we get the chance to sort things out. My approach is to put everything on the table and work from there.

To me bluntness is making no attempt to add softness or care to what you're saying, which, when someone comes to you with a problem that's clearly upsetting then emotionally, suggests that you (general you) don't really give a toss about their feelings. 

 

Bluntness is fine for dealing with practical problems (say, all your lights have gone out suddenly, or you're stranded sonewhere) where someone's asking for concrete advice or solutions, but for emotionally based problems, it just seems callous and uncaring.

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2 hours ago, Homer said:

Hmmm... I always took the expression "blunt" as the opposite of "beating around the bush". I'm a huge fan of getting to the point quickly and it'd be suspicious if you (general you, of course :)) try to tiptoe around what you actually want to say. So I just don't see the expression as inherently negative. Is there something I miss?

^ This. Blunt is just getting straight to the point. I would consider 'brash' to be a more fitting word for being direct but also insulting/unkindly.

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People who use "blunt honesty" as a means to justify being an asshole are just assholes. Same way that people who sugarcoat things and coddle you in person while talking about you behind your back are just assholes.

 

Even then, I'd still prefer the assholes who are assholes to my face, so I can go right on ahead and cut them outta my life.

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23 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

Yes, this. While the person I'm ranting to is making tacos.

you understand me so well :lol: 

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NoLongerActive1234

It depends on what I am looking for, if I want advice I tend to ask for it. Otherwise I appreciate sympathy, kindness, hugs and someone just being there letting me vent and saying that what I am feeling is okay. I dislike pitty but I see that as very different from sympathy and caring.  Just taking time out to interact with me and to fully hear me out in what is causing me pain means a lot, I'll love them forever. I analyze myself enough as it is that I already pretty much know where I am doing things wrong and what I should be doing. It's nice when someone just helps me out in giving myself a break and where I can let emotions get their say, because human's aren't without them. It helps me feel strenghtened and motivated to  continue on and find my own solutions. 

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So, my ex was one of the least forthright people I've ever known. Getting the truth from him was like pulling teeth. When we first started dating, I was in really good shape; by the end of our marriage, I wasn't. He used to tell me "Well, you aren't fat..." 

 

My current partner is one of the most forthright and honest people I know. I'm a little messed up from some of the "truths" my ex threw at me, so it falls on my current partner to occasionally assure me "babe, you aren't fat." 

 

Same sentence, same amount of honesty, vastly different levels of dickishness. Ironically, it was the least truthful man who did the most hurt with his truths. 

 

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On 16-1-2018 at 1:30 AM, Chimeric said:

People who use "blunt honesty" as a means to justify being an asshole are just assholes. Same way that people who sugarcoat things and coddle you in person while talking about you behind your back are just assholes.

 

Even then, I'd still prefer the assholes who are assholes to my face, so I can go right on ahead and cut them outta my life.

I know right? If there is anything i hate it's people coddling me out of sympathy/sugarcoating things because they're afraid of hurting me.If something is too good to be true it is indeed too good to be true. I rather prefer someone to tell me where i'm close at while they hug me then when they just coddle me to make me feel allright.

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9 hours ago, Chimeric said:

 

So, my ex was one of the least forthright people I've ever known. Getting the truth from him was like pulling teeth. When we first started dating, I was in really good shape; by the end of our marriage, I wasn't. He used to tell me "Well, you aren't fat..." 

 

My current partner is one of the most forthright and honest people I know. I'm a little messed up from some of the "truths" my ex threw at me, so it falls on my current partner to occasionally assure me "babe, you aren't fat." 

 

Same sentence, same amount of honesty, vastly different levels of dickishness. Ironically, it was the least truthful man who did the most hurt with his truths. 

 

I hate hearing the typical "You're not fat!" kind of coddling because it invalidates what I've lived through and how I've seen the world. I grew up fat, when almost all the other kids were skinny, and it was a different life with different rules where I was told what I could and could not do, and could and could not be. When I talk about my fatness, that's what I'm talking about. But by default people seem to think it's fishing for compliments or reassurance, which I do not rely on. They think it's polite. That some people, like your ex, use it as an emotional tool of control within relationships makes me so glad I'm aro. (Though parents have also been known to control their kids this way, which is so fucked up. Luckily my situation growing up wasn't quite that bad.)

 

On the other extreme, those who justify their assholery as "brutal honesty" will hurl fat insults at me as if I'm delicate on the matter and have never noticed my own size. :rolleyes: The good kind of honesty (I think I prefer "open honesty" to describe it) will say things like "Of course you can lose weight, which applies to about 60% of adults. You're also never going to have that 'perfect body' so just go by how you feel and the basic healthy habits you maintain." Then again, I never ask about whether I look fat in something, because I trust my own judgment on the matter and want to hear neither coddling nor other people's honest assessment of my body. :P

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