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IronHamster

Acceptance

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vega57
1 hour ago, IronHamster said:

Read the whole thing.  NO WHERE does it say that sex MUST take place when *you* want it to. 

 

Dang, dude.  You're going to try every avenue to *prove* that your spouse "owes" you sex on YOUR terms. 

 

How sad.  How very, very sad.

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vega57
1 hour ago, IronHamster said:

Um.  Certainly this is a joke.  Starvation is a problem with food distribution.  At 16 billion, it is a problem with resource allocation to produce.  Look at the US, where we grow grass in our yards and tell me we are anywhere close to production capacity.  In Africa, talk to any UN official and they will tell you privately that the natives starve because they cannot get their act together.  

Talk to any other UN official and they will tell you about how often that women (especially) are subject to men--spouses or not--who think that they're ENTITLED to sex...

 

...and who rape women at an alarming rate, because they believe that they're ENTITLED to sex...on THEIR terms...at THEIR level of frequency. 

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vega57
10 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yes. 

How?

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Telecaster68

She said she wanted to wait till they married. 

 

You should read threads before you jump in. 

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InquisitivePhilosopher
11 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

She said she wanted to wait till they married....

Well, of course she said that 20 years ago: she was a virgin and asexuality didn't exist back then (as I said in my previous post), and once AVEN was started, it wasn't even considered to be a sexual orientation, so asexuals assumed they must be either heterosexual or homosexual, if they had heteroromantic or homoromantic feelings or crushes on others; that they could will themselves to be heterosexual/homosexual, etc. 

 

And when some asked their doctors/therapists about their lack of interest in sex or arousal, the doctors/therapists were just as stumped and also thought that asexuality could be cured or changed, so they either just told them to continue trying therapy, taking medication and trying to have sex with their partner.

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vega57
10 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

She said she wanted to wait till they married. 

 

You should read threads before you jump in. 

I read the whole damn thread before I posted.

 

Please tell me WHERE his wife promised him the amount of sex that he wants....

 

 

Oh and, by the way...he DID post what he expects....

 

...and knowing a sex therapist *personally*, that therapist even said that if he expects THAT much sex from his wife, he's probably a sex "addict". 

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Grinchmer
4 minutes ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

Well, of course she said that 20 years ago: she was a virgin and asexuality didn't exist back then, (as I said in my previous post) and once AVEN was started, it wasn't even considered to be a sexual orientation, so asexuals assumed they must be either heterosexual or homosexual, if they had heteroromantic or homoromantic feelings or crushes on others; that they could will themselves to be heterosexual/homosexual, etc. 

This has got nothing to do with asexuality "existing" at a certain time. One partner in a relationship made a promise that X would happen once Y happened. Y did happen, yet the promised X didn't. If she knew that she still wasn't going to have sex after getting married, that's a bitch move. It doesn't matter whether asexuality "was a thing" back then or whether AVEN existed or not. If she didn't feel like wanting to engage in sexual activities, she should have told him - regardless of whether there was a "term" for it or not.

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Telecaster68

Oh for God's sake. Marriage doesn't involve sex and saying 'wait till we're married' isn't saying 'we'll have sex when we're married'..... only on AVEN. 

 

This is ludicrous. 

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Camicon
1 hour ago, Grinchmer said:

This has got nothing to do with asexuality "existing" at a certain time. One partner in a relationship made a promise that X would happen once Y happened. Y did happen, yet the promised X didn't. If she knew that she still wasn't going to have sex after getting married, that's a bitch move. It doesn't matter whether asexuality "was a thing" back then or whether AVEN existed or not. If she didn't feel like wanting to engage in sexual activities, she should have told him - regardless of whether there was a "term" for it or not.

 

You clearly haven't read the thread very carefully.

 

They have kids. Do I have to explain to you how kids are made?

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Grinchmer

-.-

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Telecaster68

Also, I'd you read the thread, the OP can name the dates of their conception. Which means sex was a very very rare  thing when they were conceived. 

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jessdawnb
On 06/12/2017 at 9:42 AM, IronHamster said:

All of her needs are being met.  Why shouldn't mine be?  

 

listen, i understand that you're frustrated. you're upset about the situation because you feel like what you want doesn't matter.

 

but please recognize, you're upset with your wife about not wanting to have sex with you, which is totally out of her control. that is a very important fact you seem to want to conveniently forget because you are, as i said, frustrated. she also doesn't want to open up the marriage to outside sexual partners, that's something that should have been addressed before 20 years of sexual frustration built up and made this dilemma even more difficult to process.

 

what you want matters, and what your wife wants matters equally. 

 

cheating on your wife was wrong. 20 years of pent up sexual frustration or not, cheating is still cheating.

 

what you choose to do about your marriage is up to you. i recommend talking to your wife about your feelings, because this directly involves her and she should know.

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IronHamster
1 hour ago, vega57 said:

Talk to any other UN official and they will tell you about how often that women (especially) are subject to men--spouses or not--who think that they're ENTITLED to sex...

 

...and who rape women at an alarming rate, because they believe that they're ENTITLED to sex...on THEIR terms...at THEIR level of frequency. 

That post has no place in this conversation.  

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IronHamster
1 minute ago, jdawnyb said:

listen, i understand that you're frustrated. you're upset about the situation because you feel like what you want doesn't matter.

 

but please recognize, you're upset with your wife about not wanting to have sex with you, which is totally out of her control. that is a very important fact you seem to want to conveniently forget because you are, as i said, frustrated. she also doesn't want to open up the marriage to outside sexual partners, that's something that should have been addressed before 20 years of sexual frustration built up and made this dilemma even more difficult to process.

 

what you want matters, and what your wife wants matters equally. 

 

cheating on your wife was wrong. 20 years of pent up sexual frustration or not, cheating is still cheating.

 

what you choose to do about your marriage is up to you. i recommend talking to your wife about your feelings, because this directly involves her and she should know.

I really do not see this as cheating.  

 

I am really let down.  I think every loving person wants their partner to live a fulfilling life.  I know if my wife was the one that wanted sex and I could not give it to her, I would actively seek out a third.  Isn't that what loving partners are supposed to do?  

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FictoVore.
On 12/7/2017 at 2:28 AM, IronHamster said:

I have been married to an asexual, and I am trying to cope with the fact that they do not want to bond with me the way I need to bond.   I recently found a wonderful woman who was dealing with the exact same issue with her husband.  We met, and the chemistry between us was beautiful, exciting, and, amazing.   I let my wife know about this, and she is hurt.  I do not understand why.  Sex within our marriage has meant nothing to her.  I was not expecting she would care any more about sex outside marriage.   What can I do to help her see that this is a good thing.  I am finally getting something I need.  

Romantic asexuals can still experience a desire for romantic monogamy, even if they don't feel that having sex with their partner is important. I totally understand how that can seem really strange, but I used to be 'functionally asexual' and still had a deep desire for total monogamy even if I wasn't interested in actually having sex. I would have been utterly SHATTERED if my ex-partner at the time had cheated on me, though as I had discovered AVEN by that point my partner was asexual too so that wasn't an issue. Before discovering asexuality I had a sexual partner who I gave sex multiple times a day but he still cheated, however that's a different topic. I'm just trying to explain for you why your wife could have been hurt by the cheating, even IF sex is not at all important to her. It's not the sex itself, it's sharing romantic with another person. 

 

On 12/7/2017 at 6:51 AM, IronHamster said:

I'm not sure what you think I am justifying.   My actions are justified.  There are asexuals here that use body autonomy as a reason for no sex in marriage.  I use it for sex outside marriage.  My body my rights.  Right?  

 

On 12/7/2017 at 7:23 AM, IronHamster said:

Her job was to have a complete relationship with me.  Faithfulness means she fucks me once every day at minimum, for over an hour three times a week at minimum, and all night long once a week at minimum.  Faithfulness is about meeting expectations.  She never faithfully executed her responsibilities as a sexual mate. 

I'd just like to point out that I haven't actually met any women who could actively want that much sex long term. I mean, that's extreme. My sexual partner and I are both pretty hypersexual with each other but even he (who is a 20 year old male) would probably just crawl into a corner and hide at the prospect of that much sex being expected of him. It's the expectation that's draining because you suddenly become overwhelmed knowing your partner would be unhappy if they didn't get that much from you. Anyway, I'm not knocking you for wanting a lot of sex, it was just the way you worded it made my eyes pop a little. Faithfulness for me is knowing my partner owns my body to use in any way he wants whenever he wants, and I get to use his body in any way I want whenever I want, and we never touch another person of the opposite sex, or have close emotional bonds with people of the opposite sex. I'm guessing that also would sound extreme to many people, but I think the difference is that we both actively and enthusiastically agreed to that, whereas in your case, you want that and your wife doesn't which obviously was the start of all these complications 20 years ago. I'm not saying it's your fault for wanting that much sex, or your wife's fault for not wanting sex, it's just unfortunate that you both weren't able to communicate openly and honestly about this early in the marriage. If that conversation had happened, then maybe she would have made it clear to you she would never be able to give you what you need, in which case divorce may have been a viable option for you both. I that you don't see it as an option now, but will get to that in a moment.

 

I don't personally think your actions in cheating are justified despite the fact that I agree, you have a right to seek the sexual intimacy you desire. I feel personally it would have been better to discus it with her first, and clearly state 'I am deeply unhappy without sex so I'm sorry, I either we are going to have to come to some sort of sexual compromise or I am going to have to try to find a sexual partner because I can't go without it any long'. Maybe she would have been open to come to some sort of compromise under those circumstances, I'm not sure. Or maybe she would have been okay with you seeing prostitutes, but not forming an actual emotional connection with someone else? It's hard to know now.

 

Quote

   What can I do to help her see that this is a good thing.

As the cheating has already happened and it can't be undone, maybe you need to explain to her that you need this sexual intimacy and just can't be without it even though you understand that she cannot give it to you, which is why you felt you had to search elsewhere. Something that could make it easier for her if she could also maybe look for an asexual or just a very close friend to develop an intimate emotional bond with who she can chat with and have coffee with, and maybe even cuddles etc if she wants that. That way you are both getting your own types of intimate needs met elsewhere and that way the kids don't have to go through the stress of their parents divorcing? Would you be okay with her seeking out someone to be emotionally intimate with in the same way you are with the person you're having sex with? If she could find someone like that who made her really happy, but with no expectation of sex from her, then  maybe you could both have a happier marriage and you'd both have someone to turn to for the specific types of intimacy and companionship you desire.

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Camicon
20 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Also, I'd you read the thread, the OP can name the dates of their conception. Which means sex was a very very rare  thing when they were conceived. 

Tough. Marriage does not obligate a spouse to have sex. Not once a week, or once a year. Not once, period.

 

5 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

I really do not see this as cheating.  

 

I am really let down.  I think every loving person wants their partner to live a fulfilling life.  I know if my wife was the one that wanted sex and I could not give it to her, I would actively seek out a third.  Isn't that what loving partners are supposed to do?  

It's really very simple. If you had sex with someone other than your SO, and your SO didn't give you express permission to have sex with that other person, then you cheated on your SO.

 

If you think that you're let down, imagine how your wife must feel about you cheating on her, and then crowing about how it's her fault and you're a victim who hasn't done anything wrong.

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jessdawnb
9 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

I know if my wife was the one that wanted sex and I could not give it to her, I would actively seek out a third.  Isn't that what loving partners are supposed to do?  

 

but in this hypothetical situation, you're just sympathizing with how your feeling right now, so of course you would THINK that's what you would do, but you can't know for sure.

 

moreover, you value sexual gratification because you're sexual, but that isn't necessarily the case for your wife because she's ace.

i agree that if my partner felt unsatisfied and wanted sexual gratification i would try to find a compromise. but this isn't me, and what i would do is kinda irrelevant.

for many people, monogamy (meaning no sharing you partner with anyone for any reason) is a hard limit. it seems like that's how your wife feels, and you disrespected that.

 

i understand that sex is a small part of a relationship that plays a big role, but so is trust. you broke your wife's trust when you slept with someone else without her agreeing to it too. that's why what you did was wrong. loving partners also shouldn't break each other's trust, wouldn't you agree?

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Grinchmer
26 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

I really do not see this as cheating.  

You went behind the back of your wife. Which is cheating. What else could it possibly be? I can't see how that could ever be justified.

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vega57
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Also, I'd you read the thread, the OP can name the dates of their conception. Which means sex was a very very rare  thing when they were conceived. 

You make an awful lot of assumptions.  Being able to name the dates of conception means squat.  I can do the same thing with all 4 of my kids, and I was having "regular" sex. 

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vega57
1 hour ago, IronHamster said:

I really do not see this as cheating.  

 

I am really let down.  I think every loving person wants their partner to live a fulfilling life.  I know if my wife was the one that wanted sex and I could not give it to her, I would actively seek out a third.  Isn't that what loving partners are supposed to do?  

No. 

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Law of Circles

You seem to believe strongly that leaving would be bad for your kids, but I question if that's really the case. Kids can often sense tension in the household and may notice that their parents are unhappy with their relationship, which can negatively impact the children's emotional/mental health. I know that divorcing with kids isn't ideal, but I don't think it's necessarily inherently worse for them than what is already happening. It is perfectly possible for kids to grow up healthy and happy with single parents or divorced co-parents, and in some cases it is better than growing up in a married (but dysfunctional) household.

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Lucas Monteiro
6 hours ago, IronHamster said:

Um.  Certainly this is a joke.  Starvation is a problem with food distribution.  At 16 billion, it is a problem with resource allocation to produce.  Look at the US, where we grow grass in our yards and tell me we are anywhere close to production capacity.  In Africa, talk to any UN official and they will tell you privately that the natives starve because they cannot get their act together.  

You raise good points, but even so, it is still not an joke. You could be right in everything you said, but something that you are not putting in perspective, it's that as overpopulation grow, it will impact heavily on the environment, as an consequence, all the whole ecosystem will be destroyed and we will not be able to live on this planet anymore. There are a lot of examples where human exponential grow in population made impossible to other beings live, and end being extinct. Do you truly think this don't impact us ? Just wait, time will show that what I saying, it's not an joke.

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Serran

I would like to take a minute to remind everyone that personal insults and judgments about people based on their sexuality is not acceptable on AVEN. Please remain civil as you continue this discussion. Thank you. 

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InquisitivePhilosopher

I guess the discussion has reached an impasse.

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FictoVore.
10 hours ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

I guess the discussion has reached an impasse.

I'm still hoping the OP will reply to me because I do think it could potentially help both of them if his wife would be open to seeking her own intimate relationship with someone else as well, but one that doesn't involve sex as she doesn't desire that. If they both feel divorce isn't an option (even though I agree with others  here that kids can suffer  from tension in a relationship more than they would from  divorce sometimes) then maybe his wife could be happy  getting the type of intimacy that asexuals desire from someone else, in the same way he is getting sexual intimacy from someone else? (Just to clarify, by asexual intimacy I mean emotional and/or physical intimacy with literally no expectation of sex).

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IronHamster
14 hours ago, Camicon said:

 

You clearly haven't read the thread very carefully.

 

They have kids. Do I have to explain to you how kids are made?

A sexless marriage is defined as a marriage with a frequency of ten or fewer couplings per year.  

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IronHamster
19 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

I'm still hoping the OP will reply to me because I do think it could potentially help both of them if his wife would be open to seeking her own intimate relationship with someone else as well, but one that doesn't involve sex as she doesn't desire that. If they both feel divorce isn't an option (even though I agree with others  here that kids can suffer  from tension in a relationship more than they would from  divorce sometimes) then maybe his wife could be happy  getting the type of intimacy that asexuals desire from someone else, in the same way he is getting sexual intimacy from someone else? (Just to clarify, by asexual intimacy I mean emotional and/or physical intimacy with literally no expectation of sex).

I would be very happy for my wife if she could find a third.  I have been clear to her about that.  We have several incompatibilities.   I am hopeful she will reach out to a partner that can better meet her needs. 

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IronHamster
12 hours ago, Law of Circles said:

You seem to believe strongly that leaving would be bad for your kids, but I question if that's really the case. Kids can often sense tension in the household and may notice that their parents are unhappy with their relationship, which can negatively impact the children's emotional/mental health. I know that divorcing with kids isn't ideal, but I don't think it's necessarily inherently worse for them than what is already happening. It is perfectly possible for kids to grow up healthy and happy with single parents or divorced co-parents, and in some cases it is better than growing up in a married (but dysfunctional) household.

I understand.  We have been civil.  I know families that are broken even though they are intact, and see the damage to the kids.  It is only when the parents finally separate that the healing can begin.  I have made it clear to my wife that if we cannot stay civil then I have to go.  

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IronHamster
16 hours ago, vega57 said:

I read the whole damn thread before I posted.

 

Please tell me WHERE his wife promised him the amount of sex that he wants....

 

 

Oh and, by the way...he DID post what he expects....

 

...and knowing a sex therapist *personally*, that therapist even said that if he expects THAT much sex from his wife, he's probably a sex "addict". 

I spent twenty-four years in forced celibacy.   A natural drive is hardly an addiction.   I am getting older and slowing down, but still healthy. 

 

She never promised an amount, but she had my dick in her mouth more nights than not until our day at the altar. 

 

I do not feel it was a marriage so much as being captured.   

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vega57
1 minute ago, IronHamster said:

I spent twenty-four years in forced celibacy.   A natural drive is hardly an addiction.   I am getting older and slowing down, but still healthy.   

No one "forced" celibacy upon you.  As another poster pointed out, you chose to remain married both before and after you had kids. 

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