Acceptance

[IronHamster]

3 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Nah, they're fine ~

No.  They are dying off as we speak.  

[IronHamster]

5 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Nah, they're fine ~

Malthusian used to think the world could never possibly sustain eight billion people.  Well, here we are, producing plenty of food because enough smart people figured out how.  The smart people will make it possible for my grandchildren to live in a world with fifty billion people.  

 

Overpopulation is a sci-fi joke.  

[Yatagarasu]

2 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

Malthusian used to think the world could never possibly sustain eight billion people.  Well, here we are, producing plenty of food because enough smart people figured out how.  The smart people will make it possible for my grandchildren to live in a world with fifty billion people.  

 

Overpopulation is a sci-fi joke.  

Overpopulation is already occuring. 

 

8 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

No.  They are dying off as we speak. 

My genes? How?

[IronHamster]

2 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Overpopulation is already occuring. 

 

My genes? How?

There is no overpopulation, only a lack of innovation.  

 

Your genes, by not reproducing, are dying.   When you are gone, they will be, too.  

[Yatagarasu]

1 minute ago, IronHamster said:

There is no overpopulation, only a lack of innovation.  

 

Your genes, by not reproducing, are dying.   When you are gone, they will be, too.

Innovation can occur when there's room for it. It also requires smart people.

I don't feel particularly sad about it.

[Shadowstepper]

14 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

  I know if I ever lost my sex drive I would go to any extent to get it back. 

Sex drive has nothing to do with being an asexual.

 

Most of us have a normal or even high sex drive. It's the desire to actually have sex to appease the sex drive that we don't have.

 

Me for instance, I have no desire for sex, don't actively seek it, don't experience sexual attraction, but I have successfully entertained 2 women at the same time on more than one occasion. The plumbing all works the way its supposed to, I just have no specific desire to engage.

[IronHamster]

38 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Innovation can occur when there's room for it. It also requires smart people.

I don't feel particularly sad about it.

I do not understand.  Innovation happens first in the mind, where room is irrelevant.  

 

How are we even close to overpopulated?  There are only about eight billion people on earth.  That is not very many.  We have plenty of food for all. 

[IronHamster]

41 minutes ago, Shadowstepper said:

Sex drive has nothing to do with being an asexual.

 

Most of us have a normal or even high sex drive. It's the desire to actually have sex to appease the sex drive that we don't have.

 

Me for instance, I have no desire for sex, don't actively seek it, don't experience sexual attraction, but I have successfully entertained 2 women at the same time on more than one occasion. The plumbing all works the way its supposed to, I just have no specific desire to engage.

Sex drive has everything to do with it.  

 

I can fabricate anything you want from almost any metal I can get my hands on.  That does not mean I have a drive to do metal working.   

[Kai99]

IronHamster, if I were you, I would tell your wife that we need to have a serious heart to heart. Schedule it. Make that heart to heart seem differently from your other heart-to-hearts. Make her feel the weight of that discussion. Schedule it when you two are alone, no kids, over a small lunch or dinner. When it starts, tell her that you have something to say and that she can not interrupt you till you made your say. Than explain to her how these two decades have been, really explain how deprived and hurt you felt about the lack of sex, how you cant go without it anymore, and how you do not wan to make her. Tell her the solution(open relationship), how she and the kids will always be your number one priority despite it, and that she could make the rules of the open relationship. Tell her that you will not go against her rules and that you will be completely upfront with what will go on. Make her feel comfortable by telling her that your not trying to replace her, you are simply getting your sexual needs meet. 

 

[Shadowstepper]

8 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

Sex drive has everything to do with it.  

 

I can fabricate anything you want from almost any metal I can get my hands on.  That does not mean I have a drive to do metal working.   

No. It doesn't

 

Spend a few minutes on this forum doing something other than trying to justify cheating on your wife. At least attempt to research asexuals a little while you are here.

 

Sex drive is not the same as desire to have sex. Its the same difference between "can" and "want to".

 

I can have sex, I just don't want to. I have a perfectly healthy sex drive, I just don't have any desire to engage in sexual activity.

 

I understand if you are confused. People around here refer to it as "libido" instead of "sex drive" so that it won't be as confusing.

[Yatagarasu]

10 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

I do not understand.  Innovation happens first in the mind, where room is irrelevant.  

 

How are we even close to overpopulated?  There are only about eight billion people on earth.  That is not very many.  We have plenty of food for all.

There's quite a journey from an idea to the finished product. Not necessarily easy.

That's definitely too many people.

[Camicon]

3 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

The church and legal system would beg to differ. Marriages can be annulled if they're not consummated.

 

The consequence of breaking that promise isn't rape, it's divorce.

 

There's a huge difference between a husband not taking 'no' for an answer, and a wife never saying 'yes'.

The church isn't the one issuing marriage licenses, so they can go pound sand. There is nothing within the legal system that obligates or promises spouses to have sex with each other. An annulment on the grounds of an unconsummated marriage is a stupid little workaround some religions have because they can't walk away from their "marriage is forever and divorce is a great evil" position, but they also can't ignore divorced couples within their ranks.

 

2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Your point was that he hadn't been trying. He clearly had.

 

Are you now saying that in fact asexuals should have sex, to be supportive of their partner's needs?

See what I was responding to. "Support" in the sense of "financial support", i.e. "providing" for one's family.

[Homer]

As people have pointed out by now...

 

Promising sex after marriage and not following through is a bitch move. Simple as that.

Going behind the back of your partner is a bitch move. Simple as that.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Simple as that.

 

You both screwed up hard.

[IronHamster]

30 minutes ago, Camicon said:

The church isn't the one issuing marriage licenses, so they can go pound sand. There is nothing within the legal system that obligates or promises spouses to have sex with each other. An annulment on the grounds of an unconsummated marriage is a stupid little workaround some religions have because they can't walk away from their "marriage is forever and divorce is a great evil" position, but they also can't ignore divorced couples within their ranks.

 

See what I was responding to. "Support" in the sense of "financial support", i.e. "providing" for one's family.

Meh.  There is nothing in the legal system about sex outside marriage.   In all honesty, I do not know why asexuals care.  If asexuals actually loved their sexual partners they would beg them to get outside the marriage what they could not get within it.  

 

Any support is above the minimum.  There are plenty of guys that walk away from that shit and work under the table.  That is doing the minimum.  Heck, you cannot get any more minimum than that.  

[IronHamster]

1 hour ago, Yatagarasu said:

There's quite a journey from an idea to the finished product. Not necessarily easy.

That's definitely too many people.

I need evidence showing there are too many people.  All you offer is a vague opinion.  My fifty billion number can be extrapolated from the original Malthusian figures as a subjective starting point.  

 

Food is no issue.   We can feed everyone, and many more if some places would get their shit together.  

[LeChat]

See this for reference about the history of asexuality.

http://wiki.asexuality.org/Asexual_history

 

You are aware that, 20 years ago, asexuality (in terms of human sexuality) and other sexualities like bisexuality and pansexuality weren't known at all by most people in the world, right? You are aware that, despite sex researcher, Kinsey, realizing that asexual people existed in the 1940's and 1950's and making a category for them, that he and future sex researchers decided not to research the matter further, until more recently?

 

You are aware that sexuality can be fluid and change for some people, sometimes, and that, in marriages, peoples' sexuality changes or they realize that they were a different sexual orientation than they originally thought they were when they first married, right? (i.e., homosexual people realizing they were homosexual after being married; and others genuinely believing or wanting to believe they're heterosexual because, at that time in society, only heterosexuality and homosexuality were the only two options.)

 

There are a few, former married asexuals on this site who've explained how, decades ago, when they married a sexual spouse, they genuinely believed and thought that they were heterosexual people (because that's what they grew up hearing about from society and family members who expected or assumed they were sexual people) and that they wished asexuality existed when they were younger, so that they wouldn't have caused their spouse and themselves that pain of entering an incompatible relationship in the first place.

 

Even heterosexual couples having varying sexual desires, which can cause some strife in their relationship, too. So, this isn't only a problem that exists between a heterosexual and an asexual couple. Since asexuality didn't exist in public discourse 20 years ago, perhaps, your wife felt these things, too, at the time, genuinely believing that she was heterosexual and that it was common for heterosexuals to just have sex in order to have children, then stop having it. 

 

 

[Camicon]

43 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

Meh.  There is nothing in the legal system about sex outside marriage.   In all honesty, I do not know why asexuals care.  If asexuals actually loved their sexual partners they would beg them to get outside the marriage what they could not get within it.  

 

Any support is above the minimum.  There are plenty of guys that walk away from that shit and work under the table.  That is doing the minimum.  Heck, you cannot get any more minimum than that.  

Seems like the only reason you came here is because you're looking for some asexuals to tell you that you did nothing wrong by cheating on your wife. Do you seriously not understand why seeking intimacy with somebody other than your spouse might hurt their feelings?

 

And as I said before, supporting your family (financially) is the baseline expectation for people that aren't assholes. (obvious disclaimer for the working poor, etc.)

 

Look, what you did for the last twenty-some years, not forcing your wife to have sex and not cheating on her, is a sacrifice. You gave up something you wanted (sex) in an effort to uphold your marriage vows of monogamy, and put the wellbeing of your wife ahead of your own desires. Here's the catch: nobody forced you to remain in your marriage. That was decision you made, and blaming anyone else for it is a blatant attempt to shift responsibility away from yourself.

 

You chose to stay married, you chose to abstain from sex, and you chose to cheat on your wife. Instead of acting like an adult and separating from her, ending your promise of monogamy before seeking intimacy with another person, you acted like a child and argued yourself into believing that there's nothing wrong with betraying your wife, because of decisions that you made every day for the last twenty years. This is on you. You wanted something that your wife wasn't able to give you, and when you decided you'd had enough you went about things in the worst way possible.

[Yatagarasu]

11 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

I need evidence showing there are too many people.  All you offer is a vague opinion.  My fifty billion number can be extrapolated from the original Malthusian figures as a subjective starting point.  

 

Food is no issue.   We can feed everyone, and many more if some places would get their shit together. 

I don't need any evidence. That's my subjective opinion as a misanthropist. I am well aware that food is no issue. And I still don't understand why people fear GMO as it could help maintaining large amounts of people.

[Telecaster68]

1 hour ago, Camicon said:

 There is nothing within the legal system that obligates or promises spouses to have sex with each other.

Not explicitly, but try arguing it's not the sign of a marriage breaking down in front of most courts. The law might vary but they'll recognise it's legit to be dissatisfied. 

[LadyFie]

7 hours ago, IronHamster said:

An asexual that marries a hypersexual is knowingly committing herself to lots of great sex.  If sex is a problem, she should not marry a sexual person.

?? So what about a hypersexual that marries an asexual? I guess he is committing himself to a relationship without sex. Because if not having sex is a problem, he should not marry an asexual person.

[Camicon]

25 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Not explicitly, but try arguing it's not the sign of a marriage breaking down in front of most courts. The law might vary but they'll recognise it's legit to be dissatisfied. 

Your point being what?

[Telecaster68]

There's a legal expectation that marriage includes sex. 

[LadyFie]

6 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

The idea that in general, people get married not expecting to have sex with their spouse is just silly.

What I don't understand is: Do you guys never talk to your partners?! If you would have talked about your feelings and expectations regarding the relationship, you would've known that your partners aren't really keen to have sex before you married them. And if you decided that sex is an important thing for you, then maybe you should have broken up with them a long time ago, before marrying them.

[Telecaster68]

Have you read the thread? 

[LadyFie]

5 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

But asexuals are placing their need to have no sex above their partner, in the same way.

Yes, we do, and it's really important and really healthy. Because you shouldn't let other people decide about your fundamental needs. If your lifestyles don't fit together, just break up, it's really better that way.

And if you (also @IronHamster) really can't imagine how horrible it is to be forced to do such intimate physical things with someone if you really don't want to do it: I recommend you take a broomstick and shove it up your *** and then reconsider your opinions. I'm not even being sarcastic, try it and you'll see why we don't want that.

[Telecaster68]

I don't dispute that probably breaking up is often the only solution. My problem is the attitude that it's entirely for the sexual partner to do all the work, make all the compromises in the meantime. 

[LadyFie]

13 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Have you read the thread?

I just finished. I think this is the perfect summary:

 

2 hours ago, Grinchmer said:

Promising sex after marriage and not following through is a bitch move. Simple as that.

Going behind the back of your partner is a bitch move. Simple as that.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Simple as that.

 

You both screwed up hard.

So just get divorced and be happy living your own lives. And no, it will likely not harm your kids' lives in any way, it would be more harmful to let them live in a "family" with their parents basically hating each other.

 

6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

My problem is the attitude that it's entirely for the sexual partner to do all the work, make all the compromises in the meantime.

Nobody ever said that. Both partners should try to make compromises as long as they are comfortable with it. Which means that sometimes, there just is no compromise.

[To Each Their Own]

5 hours ago, Camicon said:

 

Marriage isn't a promise to have sex. See: marital rape.

 

And some people get married before they realize they're asexual. Pitfall of a society that censures asexual voices.

I was assigned straight at birth. I’m willing to bet that many of you were too. I also married young (30 years ago) when I was still working on the assumption that I was straight. 

 

Shortly after getting married, my husband realised that I was sexually sub-par. I knew I didn’t like it immediately but as this was my first relationship, how was I supposed to know what I was. So he took me to the doctors. 

 

That turned into four years of conversation therapy, spousal rape, domestic violence, and finally a mental hospital. Yes, everyone had me convinced that it was my fault. That I was the broken one. If it’s were just a better wife I could have prevented all of this. And the tradgedy of it all is that I believed it all for many, many years after all of that happened. 

 

Twenty years ago people didn’t even know what asexuals were!! I only just recently found out about it a couple of years ago. If your wife knows about asexuals and that she is one, I garante you…she didn’t know that when she married you. 

[Telecaster68]

In this case, the wife lied to get into the marriage  and after 20 years - so longer than many AVENites have been alive - the OP deceived her too. 

 

By compromise, I don't mean necessarily even having sex, just engaging with the issue not dismissing it. That compromise is always possible, but the post earlier on, kind of  shrugging that some people just don't care about their partners grieving and being frustrated seems quite frequent from asexuals. That's the real problem. 

[IronHamster]

1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

Not explicitly, but try arguing it's not the sign of a marriage breaking down in front of most courts. The law might vary but they'll recognise it's legit to be dissatisfied. 

So is "sexual abandonment."