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IronHamster

Acceptance

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Syrthia

Why do you keep refusing the divorce option? It is clear that you are unhappy in the situation that you are in. You already said that your kids are very understanding.

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IronHamster
1 minute ago, Snao Cone said:

Only if agreed upon beforehand. Otherwise, end the relationship first. I think what needs to change more is for people to not bottle up resentment for decades, accept when a relationship has failed (blame free) and bow out earlier. Not after 20 years.

It would be nice if all asexuals were as moral as you, but mine was deceptive.  

 

Can you help me communicate with her that sex outside marriage does not matter any more than a lack of it in one?  

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Shadowstepper
1 minute ago, IronHamster said:

 

Can you help me communicate with her that sex outside marriage does not matter any more than a lack of it in one?  

We can communicate to her that you messed up big time and that divorce is likely the only option. 

 

Does that work for you?

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Yatagarasu
3 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

What is moral is we were both consenting adults.  

Absolutely, everything.  

Absolutely, denying.

"Both consenting adults", my buttocks. Rewrite your dictionary, mate.

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IronHamster
2 minutes ago, Syrthia said:

Why do you keep refusing the divorce option? It is clear that you are unhappy in the situation that you are in. You already said that your kids are very understanding.

Our kids are top notch students.  I do not want to disrupt their happy home.  

 

We have kept this facade up for two decades.  What is a few more years?  

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IronHamster
1 minute ago, Yatagarasu said:

"Both consenting adults", my buttocks. Rewrite your dictionary, mate.

If all you have for me is insults, that speaks volumes about where your moral compass points.  I have come here for help.  

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Syrthia
Just now, IronHamster said:

Our kids are top notch students.  I do not want to disrupt their happy home.  

 

We have kept this facade up for two decades.  What is a few more years?  

Because you guys are unhappy. Why do you insist on suffering for a few more years? This “happy home” is an illusion.

 

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Telecaster68
2 hours ago, IronHamster said:

I have been married to an asexual, and I am trying to cope with the fact that they do not want to bond with me the way I need to bond.   I recently found a wonderful woman who was dealing with the exact same issue with her husband.  We met, and the chemistry between us was beautiful, exciting, and, amazing.   I let my wife know about this, and she is hurt.  I do not understand why.  Sex within our marriage has meant nothing to her.  I was not expecting she would care any more about sex outside marriage.   What can I do to help her see that this is a good thing.  I am finally getting something I need.  

Morality aside (I'm sexual, married to an asexual, I get it), you're asking if there's a way to salvage the situation by persuading your wife that you getting your sexual needs met outside the marriage should be acceptable, and there are plenty of asexuals on AVEN who'd agree with you that it is. It sounds like you have raised the question of an open relationship with her before, and she said no. Then you went ahead and did it anyway.

 

Although your wife doesn't want to have sex because she's asexual, it sounds like she understands that sexuals tend to get close to people they have sex with for any period of time, and that will be threat to your marriage. TBH it sounds like it absolutely is a threat to your marriage, and she's worried about that - not necessarily for financial reasons, but whatever other reasons she has for valuing your marriage: caring about you, shared history, enjoying being with you, whatever.

 

In the end, either she accepts that, or you stop, or you conceal it from her, or you divorce. If she's going to accept it, you have to find a way to reassure her that it's just sex and you're not leaving - assuming you can make that assurance. And now she doesn't trust you, it's going to be hard. She's unlikely to see it as a good thing, but she might just grudgingly accept it as an alternative to divorce.

 

As to the 'marriage doesn't imply sex' trope on this thread. It does. It really does. You have always been able to get legal and religious annulments for non consummation. Clearly that doesn't mean marital rape is okay, or that sex should be available on demand. But never having sex is a different thing, and outside of AVEN, the concept that marriage doesn't imply sex, would be laughed at. The idea that in general, people get married not expecting to have sex with their spouse is just silly.

 

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IronHamster
Just now, Syrthia said:

Because you guys are unhappy. Why do you insist on suffering for a few more years? This “happy home” is an illusion.

 

My eldest actually thanked me for putting up with all I did.  It helped give her a great start in life.  

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Evren
27 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Morality aside (I'm sexual, married to an asexual, I get it), you're asking if there's a way to salvage the situation by persuading your wife that you getting your sexual needs met outside the marriage should be acceptable, and there are plenty of asexuals on AVEN who'd agree with you that it is. It sounds like you have raised the question of an open relationship with her before, and she said no. Then you went ahead and did it anyway.

 

Although your wife doesn't want to have sex because she's asexual, it sounds like she understands that sexuals tend to get close to people they have sex with for any period of time, and that will be threat to your marriage. TBH it sounds like it absolutely is a threat to your marriage, and she's worried about that - not necessarily for financial reasons, but whatever other reasons she has for valuing your marriage: caring about you, shared history, enjoying being with you, whatever.

 

In the end, either she accepts that, or you stop, or you conceal it from her, or you divorce. If she's going to accept it, you have to find a way to reassure her that it's just sex and you're not leaving - assuming you can make that assurance. And now she doesn't trust you, it's going to be hard. She's unlikely to see it as a good thing, but she might just grudgingly accept it as an alternative to divorce.

 

As to the 'marriage doesn't imply sex' trope on this thread. It does. It really does. You have always been able to get legal and religious annulments for non consummation. Clearly that doesn't mean marital rape is okay, or that sex should be available on demand. But never having sex is a different thing, and outside of AVEN, the concept that marriage doesn't imply sex, would be laughed at. The idea that in general, people get married not expecting to have sex with their spouse is just silly.

 

We haven't been argueing that (at least I haven't) I understand sex is expected in a marriage. But he wont even say if he's talked to her about this problem at all. Also he says he's a hero for cheating?

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Syrthia

I have to go. I still recommend divorce but it is up to you and your wife. Good luck figuring it out🍀

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Yatagarasu
1 minute ago, IronHamster said:

Our kids are top notch students.  I do not want to disrupt their happy home. 

I didn't need my parents together to be a top notch student.

 

1 minute ago, IronHamster said:

If all you have for me is insults, that speaks volumes about where your moral compass points.  I have come here for help. 

Now we're getting into my moral compass. Where does it point? You don't seem to even attempt to understand what we're trying to convey. You wanted help, but all you do is reject it and victimize yourself.

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IronHamster
7 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Morality aside (I'm sexual, married to an asexual, I get it), you're asking if there's a way to salvage the situation by persuading your wife that you getting your sexual needs met outside the marriage should be acceptable, and there are plenty of asexuals on AVEN who'd agree with you that it is. It sounds like you have raised the question of an open relationship with her before, and she said no. Then you went ahead and did it anyway.

 

Although your wife doesn't want to have sex because she's asexual, it sounds like she understands that sexuals tend to get close to people they have sex with for any period of time, and that will be threat to your marriage. TBH it sounds like it absolutely is a threat to your marriage, and she's worried about that - not necessarily for financial reasons, but whatever other reasons she has for valuing your marriage: caring about you, shared history, enjoying being with you, whatever.

 

In the end, either she accepts that, or you stop, or you conceal it from her, or you divorce. If she's going to accept it, you have to find a way to reassure her that it's just sex and you're not leaving - assuming you can make that assurance. And now she doesn't trust you, it's going to be hard. She's unlikely to see it as a good thing, but she might just grudgingly accept it as an alternative to divorce.

 

As to the 'marriage doesn't imply sex' trope on this thread. It does. It really does. You have always been able to get legal and religious annulments for non consummation. Clearly that doesn't mean marital rape is okay, or that sex should be available on demand. But never having sex is a different thing, and outside of AVEN, the concept that marriage doesn't imply sex, would be laughed at. The idea that in general, people get married not expecting to have sex with their spouse is just silly.

 

Thank you for your insight,  Telecaster68.

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Shadowstepper

This is going nowhere.

 

You have convinced yourself that you were completely justified, and even honorable, in your actions.

 

The people here do not support this notion, and neither does your wife.

 

My suggestion is divorce. It will free you up from the burden of having to deal with an asexual, and it will free her up from having you go behind her back with someone else.

 

If you can't be happy in your current circumstances, then getting out of those circumstances is your best option.

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Telecaster68
4 minutes ago, Evren said:

We haven't been argueing that (at least I haven't) I understand sex is expected in a marriage. But he wont even say if he's talked to her about this problem at all. Also he says he's a hero for cheating?

A couple of comments earlier were on the general lines of 'you have no right to expect sex in a marriage'. I don't think OP thought he was heroic for cheating, but with tolerating his wife's insistence on no sex to his own detriment for twenty years.

 

He said earlier:

 

Quote

I have talked to my wife on multiple occasions about opening the marriage.  She has no reason to. 

... which indicates she's dismissed what he's saying.

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Shadowstepper
3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

 I don't think OP thought he was heroic for cheating,

1 hour ago, Shadowstepper said:

So not only are you not at fault, but you're actually the hero in all of this?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, IronHamster said:

Absolutely.  

 

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Telecaster68

Hero for what though?

 

Here's a thought... OP could explain...

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Shadowstepper
1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Hero for what though?

 

Here's a thought... OP could explain...

He did explain. He's helping a married woman cope with her own marital problems by banging her. He's the good guy in all of this.

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Telecaster68

Yeah, hero's an overstatement.

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Telecaster68

It does sound like his wife is flat refusing to accept there's a problem or that he's miserable though, which isn't good.

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IronHamster
9 minutes ago, Shadowstepper said:

He did explain. He's helping a married woman cope with her own marital problems by banging her. He's the good guy in all of this.

I sacrificed two decades for my kids while accepting lies about why she had no interest in sex.  That makes me a hero to my kids.  

 

Sex between consenting adults is perfectly moral, and nobody else's business but the three people involved.  

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Shadowstepper

At this point I think we can all agree that the OP isn't going to get what he came here looking for: A way to convince his wife that what he did is ok.

 

There have clearly been problems surrounding sex in this marriage for quite some time, which has led him to drastic measures. It happens.

 

Cut losses and move on to what can make you happy.

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Telecaster68

@IronHamster

 

How did the conversations with your wife about your unhappiness and the lack of sex go, in general?

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Telecaster68
Just now, Shadowstepper said:

At this point I think we can all agree that the OP isn't going to get what he came here looking for: A way to convince his wife that what he did is ok.

 

There have clearly been problems surrounding sex in this marriage for quite some time, which has led him to drastic measures. It happens.

 

Cut losses and move on to what can make you happy.

I agree, but I also agree with him that refusing to engage and seek a solution with your partner being miserable over something in the relationship is just as damaging as infidelity to a marriage.

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IronHamster
Just now, Telecaster68 said:

@IronHamster

 

How did the conversations with your wife about your unhappiness and the lack of sex go, in general?

Not well.  She has given me the run-around.  I spent years trying to make her happy, but I have learned two things painfully late in life.  

 

1) You cannot make someone else happy.  

2) You cannot make someone want to fuck you that does not want to fuck in the first place.  

 

Fortunately,  there is hope, because I have also learned I am still capable of really amazing top tier sexual experiences, both giving and receiving.  

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Telecaster68

Was she up front from the start that didn't want to have sex?

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IronHamster
4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Was she up front from the start that didn't want to have sex?

Absolutely not.  She said she was a virgin, saving sex for marriage,  and that she was ready.  While we were dating, she swallowed.  After the ring went on I did not get anything for about a year.  In retrospect I should have gotten it annulled, but I still had hope.  

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Camicon
3 hours ago, IronHamster said:

I have been married to an asexual, and I am trying to cope with the fact that they do not want to bond with me the way I need to bond.   I recently found a wonderful woman who was dealing with the exact same issue with her husband.  We met, and the chemistry between us was beautiful, exciting, and, amazing.   I let my wife know about this, and she is hurt.  I do not understand why.  Sex within our marriage has meant nothing to her.  I was not expecting she would care any more about sex outside marriage.   What can I do to help her see that this is a good thing.  I am finally getting something I need.  

I've got a guess, but since I don't know your wife I'm going to frame this in how I would feel.

 

I am asexual. If I have a relationship with someone, if I married someone, then my relationship with them is entirely dependent on my emotional and psychological intimacy with them. If they cheated on me I wouldn't care that they had sex with someone else, but I would be immeasurably hurt by the fact that they betrayed the emotional and psychological intimacy I have with them by seeking it with someone else.

 

2 hours ago, IronHamster said:

I do not see this as cheating.  Cheating is by definition breaking an agreement.  Our agreement was that we were going to have sex when we got married.  The way I see it is that I was cheated out of twenty years of what I was promised.  

*snip*

Was that in your marriage vows? Racy wedding. But, no, nobody is obligated to have sex with you. Even your spouse. Her not having sex with you is not cheating you out of anything, because she does not owe you her body for the sake of your pleasure.

 

1 hour ago, IronHamster said:

Well, if you think my wife is the floor to be mopped, you failed to understand my analogy.   

 

All of her needs are being met.  Why shouldn't mine be?  

All of her needs are not being met, clearly. You cheated on her.

 

1 hour ago, IronHamster said:

My wife was the only one cheating.  She cheated me out of two decades of sex just as surely as if she were fucking the mail man.  

Again, not having sex with you is not cheating you out of anything, because she does not owe you her body for your pleasure. I shouldn't have to stress this point, and yet I feel as though I do.

 

1 hour ago, IronHamster said:

I never asked for congratulations.   That would be silly.  I just want to know why anyone would think it was ok to promise sex,  not deliver it, then get hurt when I finally got it. 

Marriage is not a promise to have sex with someone. And as I explained, if my spouse cheated on me I would be hurt for reasons beyond the fact that they had sex with someone else. You seem to have very warped views of what marriage is, and what sex means.

 

1 hour ago, IronHamster said:

Marriage vows contain "to have and to hold."  Scripturally, it is a sin to deny your spouse sex.  A big sin.  That being said, she voluntarily entered this agreement.  It has been very lucrative for her.  

Scripturally, it's a sin to wear clothes made of more than one fabric. And to eat shellfish. But not to own people. What scripture says holds very little water.

 

1 hour ago, IronHamster said:

The agreement was broken first by her.  It has been very lucrative for her.   I see no reason why I cannot go elsewhere.  In contract law, if my sole supplier fails to deliver I am free to make deals with other suppliers.

Your wife didn't cheat on you, so no, it was broken by you. Marriage may be a contract, of a sort, but not of the kind you are comparing it to.

 

1 hour ago, IronHamster said:

There are other parties involved.  We should stay committed to them, right?  Or, do you like hurting innocent children even more than people that need great Sex? 

My parents getting divorced didn't hurt me. On the contrary, it's resulted in a far better home life for myself, my brothers, and my parents, than if they had stayed together.

 

1 hour ago, IronHamster said:

Um.  Yes, she is. 

No, she isn't. There's this thing called "marital rape". Used to be legal. Isn't anymore.

 

56 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

Maybe what we need is a clearer view of sex in marriage.  A modern view includes body autonomy.  Perhaps the new standard should not be "to have and to hold," but, rather, "right to first refusal."  

 

In short, if a spouse refuses to put out the partner can outsource without repercussion.  

Nobody goes to jail for adultery anymore, so yeah, you can already cheat without repercussion. Well, aside from giving your spouse grounds to divorce you, but hey, either you: don't care, in which care why would you care about getting divorced, or you do care, in which case you should've exercised a little self-control.

 

50 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

It would be nice if all asexuals were as moral as you, but mine was deceptive.  

 

Can you help me communicate with her that sex outside marriage does not matter any more than a lack of it in one?  

Sounds like she was pretty upfront, actually. I mean, you know she's asexual. You talked with her about an open marriage. The only deceptive one was you, when you went behind her back and cheated on her. And, again, sex is about more than getting your rocks off. If that was all you wanted then you would've spent a few minutes in the bathroom with some lotion and tissues. But you didn't. You sought out another person to fuck, and that speaks volumes about what you were actually after.

 

9 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

Not well.  She has given me the run-around.  I spent years trying to make her happy, but I have learned two things painfully late in life.  

 

1) You cannot make someone else happy.  

2) You cannot make someone want to fuck you that does not want to fuck in the first place.  

 

Fortunately,  there is hope, because I have also learned I am still capable of really amazing top tier sexual experiences, both giving and receiving.  

It took you until "late in life" to realize that you can't make someone want to fuck you?

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IronHamster
1 minute ago, Camicon said:

I do. And since I don't know your wife, I'm going to frame this in how I would feel.

 

I am asexual. If I have a relationship with someone, if I married someone, then my relationship with them is entirely dependent on my emotional and psychological intimacy with them. If they cheated on me I wouldn't care that they had sex with someone else, but I would be immeasurably hurt by the fact that they betrayed the emotional and psychological intimacy I have with them by seeking it with someone else.

 

Was that in your marriage vows? Racy wedding. But, no, nobody is obligated to have sex with you. Even your spouse. Her not having sex with you is not cheating you out of anything, because she does not owe you her body for the sake of your pleasure.

 

1 minute ago, Camicon said:

All of her needs are not being met, clearly. You cheated on her.

 

Again, not having sex with you is not cheating you out of anything, because she does not owe you her body for your pleasure. I shouldn't have to stress this point, and yet I feel as though I do.

 

Marriage is not a promise to have sex with someone. And as I explained, if my spouse cheated on me I would be hurt for reasons beyond the fact that they had sex with someone else. You seem to have very warped views of what marriage is, and what sex means.

 

Scripturally, it's a sin to wear clothes made of more than one fabric. And to eat shellfish. But not to own people. What scripture says holds very little water.

 

Your wife didn't cheat on you, so no, it was broken by you. Marriage may be a contract, of a sort, but not of the kind you are comparing it to.

 

My parents getting divorced didn't hurt me. On the contrary, it's resulted in a far better home life for myself, my brothers, and my parents, than if they had stayed together.

 

No, she isn't. There's this thing called "marital rape". Used to be legal. Isn't anymore.

 

Nobody goes to jail for adultery anymore, so yeah, you can already cheat without repercussion. Well, aside from giving your spouse grounds to divorce you, but hey, either you: don't care, in which care why would you care about getting divorced, or you do care, in which case you should've exercised a little self-control.

 

Sounds like she was pretty upfront, actually. I mean, you know she's asexual. You talked with her about an open marriage. The only deceptive one was you, when you went behind her back and cheated on her. And, again, sex is about more than getting your rocks off. If that was all you wanted then you would've spent a few minutes in the bathroom with some lotion and tissues. But you didn't. You sought out another person to fuck, and that speaks volumes about what you were actually after.

 

It took you until "late in life" to realize that you can't make someone want to fuck you?

If there is no moral obligation to have sex within a marriage,  there is no moral problem with having sex outside marriage.   You cannot have it both ways.  It is illogical.  

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Syrthia

I don’t know if she is upset about the sex. She may be upset that you went behind her back. 

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