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miettaisace

Word blocking/ policing

word blocking   

35 members have voted

  1. 1. should we ban some words?

    • Yes
      18
    • No
      17
  2. 2. should be able to say words that are banned if we add "TRIGGER WARNING" above the post?

    • Yes
      20
    • No
      15
  3. 3. should people on AVEN chill out a bit more?

    • Yes
      24
    • No
      11


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miettaisace

Trigger Warning there is swear words in this so if you dont wanna read em just skip to the blue bold words aye

 

Im getting so fed up with avens use of word blocking. so many times i voice my opinion and i get quoted in so much shit...basically people DM me saying im racist or rude or insensitive when really a word is a word and if it makes you cry like a bitch thats because you are putting a negative definition onto a word that was used as a joke. Cu*t isnt rude unless you make it rude, its a word used to great mates. i wouldnt say ni**er because i dont find it funny but if you do go ahead and say it. Why do we get banned or warnings for classic banter. Plus we have the rights to say these words.

 

Ifeel like everyone on aven needs to drink some beers and chill out over this word policing. 

You can say asshole on aven but not cu*t...they are both body parts if the word makes you cry how is that my fault. the word 'chew' makes me feel sick is that word banned?

Wog isnt banned thats racist, abo isnt banned, corn dog isnt banned. these words are all if not used as a joke racist so why are they not banned??

my question to discuss is when is a word anything more than a word?

 

my answer would be never or when used not as a joke.

now words hurt people sure but welcome to the real world. 

 

Admins dont give me a warning over this its a friendly conversation with a poll aye. 

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Sapphire Delvai

If you look at the topic about slurs to refrain from using it says this:

Please refrain from using these words and words like them as insults or derogatory terms.

They are specifically forbidden from being used as insults and derogatory, I don't see an issue with this because insults and such are not allowed anyway.

If you say the words to discuss them, I don't think the mods will punish you...

I think the issue has been taken far out of proportion...

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.Lia

Personally, never heard of "wog" or "abo", and not really sure how "corn dog" is racist. However. If someone were to use them and you reported it with a definition of the word, or a reason why the word is racist, then a better discussion could be had in Admods in regards to warn/nudge/nothing. 

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Una Salus Victus

It's pretty much stuff that's considered bad in North America, from what I've seen.

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miettaisace
54 minutes ago, .Lia said:

Personally, never heard of "wog" or "abo", and not really sure how "corn dog" is racist. However. If someone were to use them and you reported it with a definition of the word, or a reason why the word is racist, then a better discussion could be had in Admods in regards to warn/nudge/nothing. 

my grandparents on both sides of my family were immigrants. greece and italiy. 

they were called wogs, people threw stones at them. wog means western oriented gentlemen, pretty much someone who aint from here.

now at the time wog was very very very very very fucking rude. my grandpa would get into fights with people over being called a wog. so is it racist or a slur sure. 

my grandma was mugged because she was a wog. 

i call myself wog every damn day cause it aint rude now just like ni**er with americans, black people say that word all the time. thats how i use wog cause im a proud wog. 

 

Abo is short for aborginal. they were raped, murdered and enslaved. so yeah abo is racist but that shit aint banned. the only words that are banned are american offensive words. 

 

corndog is what you call a fat person. that shit aint banned its a slur. "move you fucking corndog" i hear that daily its super hilarious though, 

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miettaisace
2 hours ago, Sapphire Delvai said:

They are specifically forbidden from being used as insults and derogatory, I don't see an issue with this because insults and such are not allowed anyway.

i called myself a C*nt and i got a warning....i called myself one. how is that rude to anyone. 

i referred to myself as a c*nt and somehow i used bigoted language. 

 

so no it aint fair how they monitor the words. 

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Sapphire Delvai
49 minutes ago, miettaisace said:

my grandparents on both sides of my family were immigrants. greece and italiy. 

they were called wogs, people threw stones at them. wog means western oriented gentlemen, pretty much someone who aint from here.

now at the time wog was very very very very very fucking rude. my grandpa would get into fights with people over being called a wog. so is it racist or a slur sure. 

my grandma was mugged because she was a wog. 

i call myself wog every damn day cause it aint rude now just like ni**er with americans, black people say that word all the time. thats how i use wog cause im a proud wog. 

It seems like that word varies by region:

Quote

wog (plural wogs)
 

(Britain, slang, pejorative, ethnic slur) Any dark-skinned person. Most commonly used to refer to people of Indian, North African, Mediterranean, or Middle Eastern ancestry.
 

(Australia, slang, pejorative, ethnic slur) A person of Southern European, Mediterranean, or Middle Eastern ancestry.

Both forms are definitely racist slurs regardless and I would report and expect admods to take action if they were used offensively.

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Sapphire Delvai
49 minutes ago, miettaisace said:

i called myself a C*nt and i got a warning....i called myself one. how is that rude to anyone. 

i referred to myself as a c*nt and somehow i used bigoted language. 

 

so no it aint fair how they monitor the words. 

You can send an appeal if you feel you were wrongly warned.

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Snao Cone

You have a choice in what you get outraged about.

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.Lia
1 hour ago, miettaisace said:

i called myself a C*nt and i got a warning....i called myself one. how is that rude to anyone. 

i referred to myself as a c*nt and somehow i used bigoted language. 

 

so no it aint fair how they monitor the words. 

So appeal the warning?

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Sleighcaptain

 I agree totally that both wog and abo have almost no use other than as a racial insult, and people should not be called such 

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Telecaster68

Surely the 'no abusing other people' rule covers any word intended as abuse, and allows any word to be used in a non abusive way. A list of banned words just complicates things and allows for yet more of AVEN's beloved quasi-legalism, which then gets administered by people with no legal training, which is why it all gets so problematic.

 

Most of the rules and therefore adjudications come down to stopping people being dicks anyhow, so replacing the entire rules with 'don't be a dick' and letting mods decide on whether people were being dicks would result in roughly the same decisions as are being made now, anyhow, and make life far simpler for everyone. 

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TheAngel(of)Peace
9 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Surely the 'no abusing other people' rule covers any word intended as abuse, and allows any word to be used in a non abusive way. A list of banned words just complicates things and allows for yet more of AVEN's beloved quasi-legalism, which then gets administered by people with no legal training, which is why it all gets so problematic.

Banned words are allowed to be used in inoffensive ways, just not as slurs.

 

10 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Most of the rules and therefore adjudications come down to stopping people being dicks anyhow, so replacing the entire rules with 'don't be a dick' and letting mods decide on whether people were being dicks would result in roughly the same decisions as are being made now, anyhow, and make life far simpler for everyone. 

But then we'd probably have more people breaking the rules because they wouldn't know what not to do.

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Telecaster68

They'd know not to to be a dick. As it is, most posters don't think they're being dicks when they break the rules, so mods would point out they're being dicks, rather than starting a painful quasi legal process neither sides really understands and mostly ends up in a judgement call anyhow. I'm saying just cut straight to the judgement call rather than waste time getting there. 

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TheAngel(of)Peace
1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

They'd know not to to be a dick. As it is, most posters don't think they're being dicks when they break the rules, so mods would point out they're being dicks, rather than starting a painful quasi legal process neither sides really understands and mostly ends up in a judgement call anyhow. I'm saying just cut straight to the judgement call rather than waste time getting there. 

But they wouldn't know what it means to not be a dick. And mods need to discuss and vote on disciplinary actions, because we have differing opinions, and because we are all representatives of the community, so we should all get a say.

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m4rble

I don't think Aven needs a banned words list. I think they fact that they TOS has clauses against personal insults and bigotry is good enough.

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Telecaster68

I think most people understand the concept of 'not being a dick'. 

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daveb
1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

I think most people understand the concept of 'not being a dick'. 

"Most", yes. But that still leaves a small number who don't. 

And, to back up what AP said, even people who think they know what it means don't all agree on the same definition.

 

If I understand you though, I guess your point as that it seems like the current rules are ill-defined and/or are applied arbitrarily, so why bother with trying to define rules. Is that a fair characterization/summary?

 

I have mixed feelings about a banned word list. Part of the problem as I see it is that different people see different words differently. It's easy for someone to say a given word is not a slur where they come from or among their friends. Just as it's easy for someone else to say it is a slur where they come from or among their friends. It's also easy for someone to say they used a word in a way that was not meant to be an insult or slur. Just as it's easy for someone else to say it's obvious it was an insult or slur. If it's pointed out that certain words can be hurtful I'm not sure why some people would insist on continuing to use those words. I guess the words are just in their lexicon and they don't feel like they should change. But in some cases that is kind of "being a dick".

 

As for rules, if mods didn't have rules to point to couldn't users just do whatever they wanted and argue that the rules didn't say they couldn't so any nudges, warnings, etc., are invalid? Most users wouldn't, but there are still those who would. Of course (at least in my opinion), any set of rules involving people can never been comprehensive and devoid of possibility of interpretation. In other words, different people may interpret things differently.

 

Getting back to the OP, I guess for me the question comes down to whether we should have a list of banned words at all. And if not, how do we handle insults and slurs. In my opinion some words are for all practical purposes always slurs; and a slur is not always harmless if no one says they are directly offended by it. Part of being a community is having standards that determine who is welcome. Allowing slurs to be used indiscriminately (or allowing them if no one complains or allowing them if not directed at anyone on AVEN) can create a hostile environment for people who might be directly affected. And that brings it back to "don't be a dick". But doesn't really answer the question about what to do about this issue (or if anything even needs to be changed from how these things are currently handled).

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miettaisace
8 hours ago, Sleighcaptain said:

 I agree totally that both wog and abo have almost no use other than as a racial insult, and people should not be called such 

no thats not what im saying here. 

 

im a wog i love being a wog, wog wog wog. im allowed to say it cause im very much a wog but im just saying that the banned words are american. so how could i know they are rude. i didnt know what 'wetback' meant. i have literally never in my life heard that word ever be used. so i googled it. what im saying is that the words that are banned are only american slurs and how is an asexual Australian meant to understand what is rude over there. 

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Sally
10 minutes ago, miettaisace said:

no thats not what im saying here. 

 

im a wog i love being a wog, wog wog wog. im allowed to say it cause im very much a wog but im just saying that the banned words are american. so how could i know they are rude. i didnt know what 'wetback' meant. i have literally never in my life heard that word ever be used. so i googled it. what im saying is that the words that are banned are only american slurs and how is an asexual Australian meant to understand what is rude over there. 

From what I've seen, most people who've weighed in on this in this multi-national forum have said certain words are slurs, cunt among them.  You as an Australian have insisted that (apparently) Australians do  not consider ANY words to be slurs, and you wish that AVEN would  hold that opinion.  Isn't that just as discriminatory as what you're claiming, which is that the only reason AVEN bans words is because of American influence?

 

As far as there being no banned words and mods doing the determination whether people using those suspect words are doing so with bad intent or not, I think that would consume a LOT more mod time, energy, and patience than simply referring to the published (and agreed-upon-when-becoming-members) rules.  

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miettaisace
1 minute ago, Sally said:

sn't that just as discriminatory as what you're claiming, which is that the only reason AVEN bans words is because of American influence?

what im saying is that how was i meant to know that c*nt was a slur...ive never heard it used against women in a negative way...its used more against men, but even so we say "g'day C*unt how ya going mate?" like everyday always, ive said this before but my school teachers would call us "c*unts" and even our Prime Minister has said C*unt in parliament. 

 

what im saying is that banter shouldnt be banned. you should get to decide weather to say slurs or not your choice. not the rules. 

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Sally

Why should everyone on AVEN have to read your slurs?  

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praetorius
29 minutes ago, miettaisace said:

what im saying is that the words that are banned are only american slurs and how is an asexual Australian meant to understand what is rude over there. 

An Australian can learn what's rude the same way we all do when interacting with people from outside our own cultural background. We make mistakes, get a negative reaction, learn from it, and move on.

 

There would be a problem here if the moderators were blindly doling out instant punishments for every innocent offense. Is that actually the case? Or, is a reasonable amount of discretion being used, to inform people when they might be being unintentionally offensive?

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TheAngel(of)Peace
50 minutes ago, praetorius said:

There would be a problem here if the moderators were blindly doling out instant punishments for every innocent offense. Is that actually the case? Or, is a reasonable amount of discretion being used, to inform people when they might be being unintentionally offensive?

We don't warn people instantly for one minor offense. We give them reminders first.

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miettaisace
1 hour ago, praetorius said:

An Australian can learn what's rude the same way we all do when interacting with people from outside our own cultural

why is it that i have to change and you dont?

thats what i dont get. 

 

like US think c*nt is rude fine then dont say it but its not rude here so why much i not say something i love to say. 

 

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praetorius
20 minutes ago, miettaisace said:

why is it that i have to change and you dont?

thats what i dont get. 

 

like US think c*nt is rude fine then dont say it but its not rude here so why much i not say something i love to say. 

A certain level of politeness --- willingness to think harder about how we express ourselves in order to avoid hurt and offense to others --- is a part of the character of this site that I personally find appealing. The internet is not short of places where people can talk with far less care for offense, including other asexuality forums. I feel that this forum has struck a good balance that raises the overall quality of discussion, while still allowing heated debates and difficult subjects to be discussed. I suspect there are many people who would find this a less welcoming and comfortable place to read and discuss if the tone and culture was like what tends to emerge on more "act-however-you-like" site. There are also people who are put off by the constraints in this environment --- and I can't think of a solution that would please everyone at once!

 

Ultimately, you don't have to change, and I'm not trying to make you. I hope you can continue saying the things you love to say both with your local friends, and find spaces online where you feel fully comfortable and accepted. Such a space for your full free expression, however, might not be this forum --- where  you are certainly welcome, but will have to put up with the norms that have developed here over a long, slow, and often contentious process. You also get to (as you currently are) weigh in on this process of shaping forum policy --- maybe you'll convince enough people to get the changes you want, and maybe not.

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Sally
1 hour ago, miettaisace said:

why is it that i have to change and you dont?

thats what i dont get. 

 

like US think c*nt is rude fine then dont say it but its not rude here so why much i not say something i love to say. 

 

It isn't just the US.  People from other countries have said they think it shouldn't be used.  

 

But if you don't want to hew to AVEN's rules, then there is an option for you.  The same option we all have.  

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Planet Ace

Say it all you want . . . elsewhere. When you're at home, you can do and say anything you like, no one will mind. Chant it for hours at a time while you meditate, even, if you love saying it so much. Whatever makes you happy, that's your prerogative. But when you're here, it's different. There are other people here, and their happiness matters too, as much as yours does. And they shouldn't have to put up with hearing insults and vulgarities just for your sake. It isn't as if you lack an outlet for this; according to you, such vocabulary is commonplace in your culture, and you and your friends use it all the time, very affectionately. So save it for them. That's not so hard to do, is it? It's OK there, but not OK here, so say it where it's OK to and don't say it where it isn't. 

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FaerieFate
On 12/2/2017 at 8:08 AM, Una Salus Victus said:

It's pretty much stuff that's considered bad in North America, from what I've seen.

A majority of AVEN's members live in America, and AVEN is registered as a nonprofit or something like that in America. So the impression that AVEN makes on Americans is important. However, that doesn't mean all other offensive slang is okay. If you see someone say something racist in your country, then report it. It's still not okay.

 

Also, not all cuss words are banned. I could say, "I'm a fucking asshole." And no one will give a shit. The issue lies in the language you use. Asshole is used against everyone, not one specific group or people. However, words like "c*nt" are used to insult women specifically in America. So that word could offend someone even if you're not using it towards them. Granted, where I live that word isn't that big of an issue, so I can't make a fair comparison to show you the problem. However, I have seen a few people say that where they live, it's really derogatory towards women specifically, and often used against women specifically. Which kinda sucks for people in Australia who often use the word as a complement.

 

I can make other examples of why it's a problem. If I used the "n" word or the "f" word for gay people and people will care. Why? Because even if I use those words against someone that isn't part of the group, the people that identify as such still feel the sting of the word.

 

This is a forum with a wide variety of people from a large variety of places. You should take cultural context into consideration when you use certain language. 

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Una Salus Victus
16 hours ago, FaerieFate said:

A majority of AVEN's members live in America, and AVEN is registered as a nonprofit or something like that in America. So the impression that AVEN makes on Americans is important. However, that doesn't mean all other offensive slang is okay. If you see someone say something racist in your country, then report it. It's still not okay.

 

Also, not all cuss words are banned. I could say, "I'm a fucking asshole." And no one will give a shit. The issue lies in the language you use. Asshole is used against everyone, not one specific group or people. However, words like "c*nt" are used to insult women specifically in America. So that word could offend someone even if you're not using it towards them. Granted, where I live that word isn't that big of an issue, so I can't make a fair comparison to show you the problem. However, I have seen a few people say that where they live, it's really derogatory towards women specifically, and often used against women specifically. Which kinda sucks for people in Australia who often use the word as a complement.

 

I can make other examples of why it's a problem. If I used the "n" word or the "f" word for gay people and people will care. Why? Because even if I use those words against someone that isn't part of the group, the people that identify as such still feel the sting of the word.

 

This is a forum with a wide variety of people from a large variety of places. You should take cultural context into consideration when you use certain language. 

So, all in all, while being an "international community," it's dictated by the Americans.

To the point where I more than likely will get in shit for this, despite it actually being of high praise, and yet we'll have people crying:

 

(TMI/content warning thing)

24068077_10155982263648966_3417713713091

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