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Am I still Ace if...


cloudyskys

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So when I was about 16 I found this site and realized that I was very much Ace, but I had a little romantic attraction in there. Even though I never had the desire to have sex I still came into the "how do you know if you haven't tried" argument both with myself and others. Then I was in a long-term relationship with someone and I just didn't care for sex, I would do it but more out of obligation than anything. I just assumed that's how it was for me.

But now I'm 21 and in a different relationship and (not to be TMI or anything) I actually enjoy sex?? I never seek it out or crave it or whatever, but I'm much more enthusiastic about it. Is this what a sexual attraction is? 

I think sexuality is fluid and so I won't be upset if I'm now hereto, im just curious if this means I'm not ace 

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By this explanation, it sounds like the term 'demisexual'' might fit. Its some one who requires a personal, emotional connection before sexual attraction can occur.

 

Having said that, I'd like to offer a thought experiment that's done wonders for me in recent years. It's not the answer for everyone, but it IS worth thinking about.

 

Do you NEED a label? Do you need a definitive single word to define this aspect of your life experience, or does just being "cloudskys, who has never enjoyed sex until with this guy" work for you?

 

Sometimes labels can be helpful...they can help us define confusing parts of our life experience, help us find community when we feel alone or unusual, and let us know that we're not broken. But other times they can trap us in predefined boxes that don't fit properly. Sometimes the search for 'the' label can cause more stress than its worth, when just being 'ourself, who is like this' is comfortable.  

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That's a good point. And overall I'm pretty chill with not neatly fit into any one label. I think mostly I'm just confused and trying to find words that accurately describe my situation

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1 hour ago, cloudyskys said:

So when I was about 16 I found this site and realized that I was very much Ace, but I had a little romantic attraction in there. Even though I never had the desire to have sex I still came into the "how do you know if you haven't tried" argument both with myself and others. Then I was in a long-term relationship with someone and I just didn't care for sex, I would do it but more out of obligation than anything. I just assumed that's how it was for me.

But now I'm 21 and in a different relationship and (not to be TMI or anything) I actually enjoy sex?? I never seek it out or crave it or whatever, but I'm much more enthusiastic about it. Is this what a sexual attraction is? 

I think sexuality is fluid and so I won't be upset if I'm now hereto, im just curious if this means I'm not ace 

There is also demisexuals and sex-positive asexuals. Demisexuals have sexual attraction after a bond is created. Sex-positive asexuals seeks or enjoy sex either because is fun to do it (not connected with sexual attraction), they want to make their partner happy as it makes them happy too, or even just because orgasm feels good. 

By the way, labels are pretty helpful. It makes others make sense of what you are, or resume what you are. However, only you can label yourself.

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36 minutes ago, Scottthespy said:

Do you NEED a label? Do you need a definitive single word to define this aspect of your life experience, or does just being "cloudskys, who has never enjoyed sex until with this guy" work for you?

Labels are very helpful even if one do not like them.

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1 hour ago, thegrayace said:

Labels are very helpful even if one do not like them.

I did say that they can be helpful. Not everyone needs them, and not all labels are useful. If finding a label is helpful to some one, I wish them luck in that. But I see so many people on this site pushing labels like they're mandatory for quality of life, and I just like to present an alternative option.

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Some people's sexuality emerges late at 20, really. You say you don't seek sex out or crave it yet are "enthusiastic" toward it now. While enjoyment without desire is real, enthusiasm would not be that. So are you saying you only want sex to be done after foreplay happens? Do you want sex in that moment for it's sexual or emotional pleasure?  If so, that's extremely normal for sexual women. If foreplay never resulted in sex would you feel deprived? Is that what sexual attraction is? No, sexual attraction is a thing a majority of men and a minority of women experience. Sexual attraction is when you look at someone and the urge to have sex is evoked. Think of it like seeing a cute kitty and imediately wanting to hug it, except with sex and ppl. It's only recent knowlage that male and female sexuality is predominantly different because sex was never an appropriate thing to study until now, nor would people's answers been too honest back in the day. It's still one of the most understudied fields. If you want to know more, look up responsive sexual desire (which most women have) and spontaneous sexual desire (which most men have), or just Emily Nagoski; sexologist.

 

Can't really tell you if this new found interest is due to late sexuality, or the long duration you've spent with your partner (demisexuality), or if you just found a guy you trust and never did prior (not demisexual; needing trust in order to desire sex is normal, especially for women), or if this partner does foreplay in the right way that triggers your desire (which is nowhere near being on the Gray spectrum, it's just called having specific needs), or if sexually desiring anyone is going to just be a rare experience for you in general (Aceflexible).

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23 minutes ago, Scottthespy said:

I did say that they can be helpful. Not everyone needs them, and not all labels are useful. If finding a label is helpful to some one, I wish them luck in that. But I see so many people on this site pushing labels like they're mandatory for quality of life, and I just like to present an alternative option.

For some it improves their view on life. For instance, imagine someone feels an attraction to the same sex. How then can they explain by going to much into detail? Or, also share an identity that perhaps no one is in his family, or community? How then can they see that they are not alone in this attraction? A label can be very helpful and useful for this. While you're right some labels are not right, one can search the meaning and where it came from. For instance, if it's a racist label, then one then can evade it, not use it, and even help to see something wrong in a society. However, if it's an identity label, then one can help to define oneself better, form a community, and even help others explain what one is.

Also, it will be ironic, and even hilarious to label your option. Yes, I can be evil. :P

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2 hours ago, thegrayace said:

For some it improves their view on life. For instance, imagine someone feels an attraction to the same sex. How then can they explain by going to much into detail? Or, also share an identity that perhaps no one is in his family, or community? How then can they see that they are not alone in this attraction? A label can be very helpful and useful for this. While you're right some labels are not right, one can search the meaning and where it came from. For instance, if it's a racist label, then one then can evade it, not use it, and even help to see something wrong in a society. However, if it's an identity label, then one can help to define oneself better, form a community, and even help others explain what one is.

Also, it will be ironic, and even hilarious to label your option. Yes, I can be evil. :P

I know why labels can be useful. But they can also be harmful, and not in a 'that's actually a bad label', kind of way. I've seen people come on aven and in their introductory post they seem happy, but once they see all the labels here they become concerned that they don't have the 'right' one, and they become stressed and suffer because of the idea that they HAVE to have a label. A lot of the talk here on aven can make it seem mandatory...not a useful option you can look into, but something that is REQUIRED. When you tell a young, impressionable, confused person that they NEED something they didn't feel like they needed, it does more damage than good.

 

As a wonderful example...telling a teenager they NEED sex in a relationship to be happy. If they end up trying and enjoying it and having a better life for the experience, that's great, and the option to try is always one to consider. But if you present sex as mandatory, you're going to end up with a lot of people forcing themselves and suffering because of it. Labels are the same...if some one is seeking a label because they don't feel right with the words they have and they feel a need for better words,  a label can be a life saver, I'm not downplaying how useful they are. But if some one is fine without one and then is given the impression that they're supposed to have one, that can hurt them just as much as forcing themselves to have sex when they don't want it can. The search for a label that 'fits' in this world of increasingly specific labels can be more stressful than living without one to some people...like me.

 

I agonized with thinking I 'needed' labels, and then nothing fit right, and people kept giving me the impression that if I used a label that was 'mostly' right but not completely right, I'd be doing something wrong to the other people who used that label. The search itself was stressful and harmful to me, because I am a person who doesn't need labels. Forcing myself to look for them was doing more damage than not having one at all. And when I DID find a label that fit 'right', it was so specific and niche that half the people here on aven didn't even know it, let alone anyone in my physical vicinity. It was less than useless. It made me look like a fool, telling people 'I'm this label!' and then having to explain it anyway, and then hearing 'well why didn't you just say that?' every time. It doesn't help that every person is so unique that trying to find a label that fits you 'perfectly' is rarely going to result in something broad enough to be widely known.

 

You seem to be really missing what I'm trying to say here. Labels are great, for the people who need them. And if you do need them, that's not a problem and I wish you happiness with the labels you choose! But there is a problem when people who DON'T need them are either hinted to or outright told that they HAVE to pick labels for things. Aven is a great place to find labels when you're looking, but its confusing and off-putting to people who are happy without them. I see so many people offering help finding labels and NO ONE saying 'consider whether you even need one'. That's not saying you definitely don't need one. You might, it might be super helpful in your life, but when considering your options, 'none of the above' should be on the list. That's why I offer people this thought experiment. I'm not telling anyone 'you don't need labels'. I'm just asking people to consider 'no label' as one of their options.

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47 minutes ago, Scottthespy said:

I know why labels can be useful. But they can also be harmful, and not in a 'that's actually a bad label', kind of way. I've seen people come on aven and in their introductory post they seem happy, but once they see all the labels here they become concerned that they don't have the 'right' one, and they become stressed and suffer because of the idea that they HAVE to have a label. A lot of the talk here on aven can make it seem mandatory...not a useful option you can look into, but something that is REQUIRED. When you tell a young, impressionable, confused person that they NEED something they didn't feel like they needed, it does more damage than good.

 

As a wonderful example...telling a teenager they NEED sex in a relationship to be happy. If they end up trying and enjoying it and having a better life for the experience, that's great, and the option to try is always one to consider. But if you present sex as mandatory, you're going to end up with a lot of people forcing themselves and suffering because of it. Labels are the same...if some one is seeking a label because they don't feel right with the words they have and they feel a need for better words,  a label can be a life saver, I'm not downplaying how useful they are. But if some one is fine without one and then is given the impression that they're supposed to have one, that can hurt them just as much as forcing themselves to have sex when they don't want it can. The search for a label that 'fits' in this world of increasingly specific labels can be more stressful than living without one to some people...like me.

 

I agonized with thinking I 'needed' labels, and then nothing fit right, and people kept giving me the impression that if I used a label that was 'mostly' right but not completely right, I'd be doing something wrong to the other people who used that label. The search itself was stressful and harmful to me, because I am a person who doesn't need labels. Forcing myself to look for them was doing more damage than not having one at all. And when I DID find a label that fit 'right', it was so specific and niche that half the people here on aven didn't even know it, let alone anyone in my physical vicinity. It was less than useless. It made me look like a fool, telling people 'I'm this label!' and then having to explain it anyway, and then hearing 'well why didn't you just say that?' every time. It doesn't help that every person is so unique that trying to find a label that fits you 'perfectly' is rarely going to result in something broad enough to be widely known.

 

You seem to be really missing what I'm trying to say here. Labels are great, for the people who need them. And if you do need them, that's not a problem and I wish you happiness with the labels you choose! But there is a problem when people who DON'T need them are either hinted to or outright told that they HAVE to pick labels for things. Aven is a great place to find labels when you're looking, but its confusing and off-putting to people who are happy without them. I see so many people offering help finding labels and NO ONE saying 'consider whether you even need one'. That's not saying you definitely don't need one. You might, it might be super helpful in your life, but when considering your options, 'none of the above' should be on the list. That's why I offer people this thought experiment. I'm not telling anyone 'you don't need labels'. I'm just asking people to consider 'no label' as one of their options.

No one can impose labels. One can present the labels, and then the person that is searching for the label can search for it. I even told cloudysky that only she can label herself. All we can do is present the labels, explain the definition of each label, and then leave her to choose which one fits her. Imposing labels is wrong.

Labels are needed to organize thoughts. You don't wish to do it, then it's fine. However, remember that you will always have to explain everything rather than resume it in a fewer words. Imagine oneself trying to explain a system of beliefs, or an entire scientific theory without labeling. However, no one outside the individual can impose labels that are suppose to define him or her. The labels that define the individual have to be accepted by the individual. For instance, when I explain my religious belief system, they quickly jump to Catholicism or Pentecostal. I stop them, and clear out I am not of those denomination, and in fact label myself as a Unitarian Universalist Christian.

You know you can create your own labels, right? If nothing fits your ideas, create a label than it then does. It's not easy, but it's better than trying to fit ideals into labels that don't do the right job. For instance, my political view are a mix of socialism and capitalism. I, therefore, label myself as a socio-capitalist. I even created a difference between Socio-Capitalism(Right-Center views) and Capita-Socialism(Left-Center views). However, by labels, it doesn't mean that you have to fit with what is popular. Labels can even break away from existing labels, and rebel against existing labels. One that did this was the label of Feminism, which broke against androcentrism and patriarchy.

I understand what you say, and what you're trying to prove. Moreover, I agree labels can be harmful, even if it's given by oneself. I am, however, a little hostile with the anti-label movements because I am the opposite from you. It was difficult for me to explain my lack of interest toward sex. I have been label as gay as a joke for that, while I lied of being heterosexual. I was in this search of what the heck I was to a point of agonizing also myself to understand what was going on. Even popular shows, like the Big Bang Theory, made me even think that perhaps I had some mental disease as I identified a lot with how Sheldon saw sex. It was then when I decided to search for myself, and I found asexuality. However, it took me time to see if I was. It was then when I saw fit to call myself an hetero-romantic asexual. It was the same for my political and my religious views. For some reason, I have the need of labelling as it soothes my mind. Something without labels confuses me, and even makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't know why.

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5 hours ago, thegrayace said:

No one can impose labels. One can present the labels, and then the person that is searching for the label can search for it. I even told cloudysky that only she can label herself. All we can do is present the labels, explain the definition of each label, and then leave her to choose which one fits her. Imposing labels is wrong.

Labels are needed to organize thoughts. You don't wish to do it, then it's fine. However, remember that you will always have to explain everything rather than resume it in a fewer words. Imagine oneself trying to explain a system of beliefs, or an entire scientific theory without labeling. However, no one outside the individual can impose labels that are suppose to define him or her. The labels that define the individual have to be accepted by the individual. For instance, when I explain my religious belief system, they quickly jump to Catholicism or Pentecostal. I stop them, and clear out I am not of those denomination, and in fact label myself as a Unitarian Universalist Christian.

You know you can create your own labels, right? If nothing fits your ideas, create a label than it then does. It's not easy, but it's better than trying to fit ideals into labels that don't do the right job. For instance, my political view are a mix of socialism and capitalism. I, therefore, label myself as a socio-capitalist. I even created a difference between Socio-Capitalism(Right-Center views) and Capita-Socialism(Left-Center views). However, by labels, it doesn't mean that you have to fit with what is popular. Labels can even break away from existing labels, and rebel against existing labels. One that did this was the label of Feminism, which broke against androcentrism and patriarchy.

I understand what you say, and what you're trying to prove. Moreover, I agree labels can be harmful, even if it's given by oneself. I am, however, a little hostile with the anti-label movements because I am the opposite from you. It was difficult for me to explain my lack of interest toward sex. I have been label as gay as a joke for that, while I lied of being heterosexual. I was in this search of what the heck I was to a point of agonizing also myself to understand what was going on. Even popular shows, like the Big Bang Theory, made me even think that perhaps I had some mental disease as I identified a lot with how Sheldon saw sex. It was then when I decided to search for myself, and I found asexuality. However, it took me time to see if I was. It was then when I saw fit to call myself an hetero-romantic asexual. It was the same for my political and my religious views. For some reason, I have the need of labelling as it soothes my mind. Something without labels confuses me, and even makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't know why.

You don't seem to fully understand what I say. I'm not 'anti label'. I just don't see any one on aven presenting 'none' as even being an option. That's what I'm doing when I offer this thought experiment. You offer your possible options for people to choose for themselves...I offer 'none of the above' as one of those options. Because if no one offers 'none' as an option, most people don't think of it themselves...just look at how many people don't realize 'none' is an option for sexual attraction until they hear that that's a thing. I'm just offering it as one of the many possibilities for people to consider in their search.

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Not that it's exactly my business or that I'm all knowing, but from a third person's view it seems that what both scottthespy and thegrayace have said, it seems like you both do understand each other but are both missing the parts where you are both acknowledging what the other person said briefly before sharing your own point of view so you are both only seeing the other's point of view without seeing that they are agreeing to you and then adding to it. So basically, you're both agreeing and saying the same thing in general and then sharing your opinions on how labels or no labels applies to your own life personally. You both agree and then are both sharing a little extra. At least that's what I gathered.

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@Star Bit you make some excellent points, and after posting I kind of realized that what I really want to know if what I'm experiencing is called sexual attraction.

The way you described it with the kitten example, I don't think I have. I've never seen my boyfriend and wanted to initiate sex or sexual activity. But I know that he's a sexual and so that's something he really wants to do and so when he wants to do something sexual I, usually,  am down for it and can find it enjoyable.

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@cloudyskys You can enjoy sex, but do you WANT it. Again, once foreplay has begun do you WANT it to go further/lead to sex? Even if this desire is only present when foreplay is being actively done. Do you WANT sensual actions for your own or your partner's sexual arousal? Again, even if it's only after foreplay has started. Sexual people desire sex for many many reasons and come to that desire in many many ways; not just sexual attraction. Sexual attraction is primarily a male experience. Most females need sexual arousal or foreplay in orde to trigger their desire for sex every time. Desiring sexual activity period (for its sexual or emotional pleasure) is what makes sexual people sexual.

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18 hours ago, cloudyskys said:

So when I was about 16 I found this site and realized that I was very much Ace, but I had a little romantic attraction in there. Even though I never had the desire to have sex I still came into the "how do you know if you haven't tried" argument both with myself and others. Then I was in a long-term relationship with someone and I just didn't care for sex, I would do it but more out of obligation than anything. I just assumed that's how it was for me.

But now I'm 21 and in a different relationship and (not to be TMI or anything) I actually enjoy sex?? I never seek it out or crave it or whatever, but I'm much more enthusiastic about it. Is this what a sexual attraction is? 

I think sexuality is fluid and so I won't be upset if I'm now hereto, im just curious if this means I'm not ace 

Sexual attraction is commonly defined as having sexual feelings or desires for specific people, based on characteristics such as sex/gender, appearance, social status, emotional connections, etc. I can't say why you now find sex enjoyable with your new partner, but it could be that you've developed sexual attraction in the context of the relationship, as romantic/emotional connections can precipitate sexual attraction. A relevant question would be whether there's anything about your partner which makes you want to have sex, or if it's only that you enjoy the act? It is possible to enjoy sex on a mechanical level without being attracted to your partner, so that is another possibility to consider. The sex-favourable asexuality concept pertains to the fact that one may desire sex for pleasure (a reason for having sex) without experiencing sexual attraction (a psychological state that orients one's sexual desires). If you'd like more information, here's a blog post on that topic from one of the main asexuality researchers: https://markcarrigan.net/2013/09/05/asexuality-identity-and-scratching-an-itch/. The concept of sexual orientations centres on forming sexual desires that are oriented towards other people, based on features of those people that one finds sexually desirable/arousing. For that reason, orientations are commonly defined in terms of the sex/genders that people are attracted to, with most people (both women and men) experiencing sexual attraction except for the approximately one percent of people who are asexual. Thus, there's a distinction between being sexual (which can include all kinds of things, such as masturbation, fantasies, enjoying sex), and having an experience that orients one's sexual desires towards other people, and in that sense asexuality may be thought of as the lack of an orientation although not necessarily a lack of sexuality.

I hope that the above information is useful, as a couple of possibilities for you to consider. Ultimately, it's up to you to decide what labels best reflect your experiences.

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