Indecent Proposal

[alibali]

I am ace. I have also had sexual relationships. I would have gone off for the night with Robert Redford for the million dollars. Would you? No brainer. Not enough to be rich, but enough to be financially secure.

[Telecaster68]

That's probably because you don't attach any emotional significance to having sex with someone. The point of the film was the dilemma of financial security for the couple at the expense of a huge emotional threat. 

[alibali]

You are right I don't understand. But even someone sexual is hardly likely to forge an emotional bond with someone they spend one night with for money, that is equivalent to the one they have with a long term partner.

[Telecaster68]

It might be that they discover their chemistry is better with the Robert Redford (sexually and in general), and they find it hard to make it just one night... People do get intoxicated with sex, and there's the added glamour and illicitness. And Redford is the alpha male, and her husband isn't... And if she'll sleep with one man for money, why else might she have sex with someone else? Is she secretly bored or dissatisfied? Apart from her own emotions, it's opening a can of worms, especially about her husband's insecurities, which then become the risk to the marriage in themselves. 

 

Even if the arrangement is set up with both sides' full consent, it's unlikely it will stay in the neat, logical box of 'sex for money'. 

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

I don't know much about these things, but I'd have thought the person being propositioned had no sexual or romantic attraction towards Redford, so the only thing holding it would be the money. That wouldn't make me jealous!

[alibali]

4 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

That's probably because you don't attach any emotional significance to having sex with someone. The point of the film was the dilemma of financial security for the couple at the expense of a huge emotional threat. 

There's no emotional content in a one night stand. If there was, no one would have them! 

[Warsaw]

For a cool mill, tax free, I would sleep with anyone male or female, who could produce documents stating the fact that they had a clean bill of health.  I'd even feign romance if they threw in a Rolex.

[Lord Jade Cross]

.

[banoffeepie]

no

[Telecaster68]

1 hour ago, alibali said:

There's no emotional content in a one night stand. If there was, no one would have them! 

There is some emotional content. It's almost never going to be a deep emotional connection, but there's (hopefully) shared pleasure and connection . And as I say, they can open up other issues in the other relationship.

[Laplace]

Honestly, if someone was offering me $1 million to sleep with them for one night, as long as they got tested for STIs (and were clean obviously) and didn’t want to do anything that’s outright disturbing or crazy, I’d seriously consider it purely for the financial gain. I’d seriously question the person’s sanity though. You’re gonna pay me that much money even though I have zero experience and you could probably just hire a legion of “professional” male hookers for multiple nights? 🧐🧐🧐 I guess it’s your money. 🤷🏻‍♂️ I suppose I should be flattered.

[Lord Jade Cross]

.

 

 

 

[Telecaster68]

The point of the film isn't so much whether you'd have sex for money. The point is the effect it has on the woman's marriage. 

[everywhere and nowhere]

I don't condone sex without committment. I think it's wrong, I believe that people should only have sex with those for whom they have close feelings.

That said, if offered that amount of money, I could feel some level of regret that I can't use the opportunity. But still I feel that I just couldn't. I'm way too uncomfortable with sex generally, with nudity, with intimate touch and with the very idea of someone doing something like that to me. No. I just couldn't.

 

Actually, I've had a remotely similar situation. My friend worked for some time as an erotic masseuse and a prostitute. Actually - unfortunately, I would say - she mostly enjoyed it, unlike some who were doing it only for the money. And I just felt bad - sour - when I thought that they can earn about 150 dollars in conversion for an evening of touching guys, and I get paid (by some company which quite regularly sends me orders) about 5 dollars for translating one standard page (1800 characters) of a chemistry patent from German (of course, the whole patent is longer, but still I often earn less for a short patent than a prostitute for one evening). Mind it, this is difficult, specialistic language!* I just don't think it's fair, I believe my effort is worth more. Still I realized fully well that I couldn't do such things even for the money. I just couldn't bring myself to it, even if it was massage only and even if I wasn't unattractive and chronically ill (=unacceptable for such work anyway) to begin with...

 

*One more edit - an example. The German patents I get have the basic text in German (I translate it to Polish), however, the title and the claims are in German, English and French. So here's a little example of English text from one of the patents I translated, for you all to understand... or not.

6. Mixtures according to one of Claims 1 to 5, characterized in that the intrinsic viscosity determined by shear rheometry with a shear rate of 1/s at a temperature of 20°C is max. 40 mPa • s.
7. Method of producing mixtures according to one of Claims 1 to 6, comprising contacting succinic acid or succinic acid derivatives with an isomeric alcohol mixture, with liberation of water or methanol; wherein an up to 50% stoichiometric excess of the alcohol mixture is used; and the reaction takes place using a catalyst, selected from the group comprising butyl titanate, nonyl titanate.
8. Method according to Claim 7, wherein the proportion of succinic acid or succinic acid derivative that is used for production of the esters and is based on renewable raw materials is at least 10 mol%.
9. Composition containing mixtures according to one of Claims 1 to 6.
10. Composition according to Claim 9, wherein the composition additionally contains at least one plasticizer, selected from the group of alkyl benzoates, dialkyladipates, glycerol esters, trialkyl citrates, acylated trialkyl citrates, trialkyl trimellitates, glycol dibenzoates, dialkyl terephthalates, dialkyl phthalates, dialkanoyl esters of isosorbide and/or dialkylesters of 1,2-, 1,3- or 1,4-cyclohexane dicarboxylic acids.

[alibali]

I know that is the main point of the film, but it isn't the only moral point. I did ask a single female friend whether she would be prepared to for that amount of money, on the assumption she was single at the time. 

 

Her answer was "probably not, because I would feel I had prostituted myself".  I don't really know why that is such a bad thing. After all having massages, physio etc is about intimacy and financial transactions too.

 

In my experience and opinion I have had sex when I haven't wanted to.  it makes it less "sacred". Others have been willing to take advantage whilst knowing that it has been meaningless to me, so I don't see it like others do. It's just one of those myriad of things that others place a lot of importance on.

 

Of course I will probably not get an offer like it, and after more than 10 years I have probably forgotten what to do. But it would be nice to have the money, and worth the effort over what about 12 hours of my life.

[Telecaster68]

Quote

Her answer was "probably not, because I would feel I had prostituted myself".  I don't really know why that is such a bad thing. After all having massages, physio etc is about intimacy and financial transactions too.

A massage/physio isn't about emotional intimacy because it's not about the relationship between the two people. It's physical therapy, based on professional expertise, and the point isn't intimacy, it's to treat purely physical ailments or wellbeing. One physio would be pretty much the same as another; one patient is pretty much the same as another, in terms of emotion.

 

The proposition in the film is about the millionaire using his money to achieve self gratification - so yes, essentially, it's prostitution. It's a very different thing.

 

It's not a bad thing if both sides are fine with commoditising sex. But most people aren't. It means too much in a relationship to reduce it to money, even if you're not in a relationship at the time.

[alibali]

My point is that prostitution or paying for sex is not in itself immoral. It depends on both sides, as you said.

 

Of course if someone sees sex as only something to be done in a mutually satisfying loving partnership.....my view would be people are very lucky if they find themselves in that sort of relationship. Plenty of people who are sexual don't find love.

[Telecaster68]

But prostitution isn't remotely comparable with physiotherapy as an occupation, just because they both involve touching people. 

[Guest]

Hmm. I'd have a lot of trouble doing it honestly. I got kissed by someone when I still felt attached to my ex right after a breakup and it felt absolutely awful. I can't imagine touching someone other than my partner like that, even if the money would be nice. 

[alibali]

I find it difficult, i have to admit, to not see sex as dirty and undesirable. Here's the view of someone which I have lifted from somewhere.

 

A legalized and properly regulated sex industry employing willing workers with full protection of the law would be perfectly moral. Our society needs to stop treating sexuality as a dirty and shameful failing of human nature, and instead just another part of life. 

[everywhere and nowhere]

10 hours ago, alibali said:

I find it difficult, i have to admit, to not see sex as dirty and undesirable. Here's the view of someone which I have lifted from somewhere.

 

A legalized and properly regulated sex industry employing willing workers with full protection of the law would be perfectly moral. Our society needs to stop treating sexuality as a dirty and shameful failing of human nature, and instead just another part of life. 

I don't accept prostitution not because I see sex as dirty and shameful, but because I see sex as a serious and potentially sacred thing which should be done out of love and committment and not for money or pure, loveless "urge"...

[alibali]

Why is it sacred?

[everywhere and nowhere]

Because - for those, who have the capability of desiring sex in the first place - it offers a possibility of touching transcendence. And I believe that, consequently, sex should be treated as a serious thing and not something that one must scratch the very moment one feels such need.

[Telecaster68]

It can be that. It can also be fun, bonding, relaxing, intimate, thrilling, transgressive... let's not get too po-faced about it.

[m4rble]

I don't know what movie you're talking about, but I think there are ways having sex for money could be more unpleasant or even riskier than regular sex. It skews the balance of power so that the person paying might feel like you should do what they say.