degrees of sexuality

[aero58]

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A-sexuality, that is no sexual drive, I believe does not exist in sexually normal reproductive beings, at least in humans. Degrees of non-pathologic sexuality(as distinguished from decreased sex drive as in male hypogonadism, for example), vary from normal hyposexual to normal hypersexual(contrasting with the hypersexuality commonly seen in bipolar illness) and do indeed exist in the realm of Human Sexuality. The term asexuality, I believe is used to indicate low levels of sexual drive in normal individuals. IMO

 

[Guest]

Depends on how you're defining 'drive', many asexuals have a perfectly healthy, even high libido, they just have no desire to connect sexually with other people for pleasure no matter how high their libido is. They can also desire love and intimacy etc, it's just partnered sexual contact (partnered genital stimulation for sexual pleasure and orgasm) that they're not interest in and are generally happiest without it. Many asexuals I have met have been totally 'normal' sexually, get aroused from sexual stimulation etc, masturbate, some even desire to have kids.. They just get nothing out of partnered sex in the same way I don't get anything out of watching sports on TV - I'd rather kill zombies in Dark Souls.

[Muledeer]

I believe that asexuality could be a spectrum for most people, but that some, in fact many, of us are true asexuals who desire NO sexual contact with others and do not experience sexual attraction.

Personally, I would say that I fit on the low end of that spectrum, having experienced sexual activity and enjoying it at an earlier stage in my life.

I also believe in that spectrum for the other forms of sexual orientation as well, with bisexual being in the middle, hetero and gay being on both ends of it.  According to Freud, most people have tendencies of sexual attraction to both genders in varying degrees.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Muledeer said:

According to Freud, most people have tendencies of sexual attraction to both genders in varying degrees.

Yes, and a woman isn't sexually mature unless she can have a vaginal orgasm  

[aero58]

5 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

Yes, and a woman isn't sexually mature unless she can have a vaginal orgasm  

 

6 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

Depends on how you're defining 'drive', many asexuals have a perfectly healthy, even high libido, they just have no desire to connect sexually with other people for pleasure no matter how high their libido is. They can also desire love and intimacy etc, it's just partnered sexual contact (partnered genital stimulation for sexual pleasure and orgasm) that they're not interest in and are generally happiest without it. Many asexuals I have met have been totally 'normal' sexually, get aroused from sexual stimulation etc, masturbate, some even desire to have kids.. They just get nothing out of partnered sex in the same way I don't get anything out of watching sports on TV - I'd rather kill zombies in Dark Souls.

As I am 70 yrs old, I usually post on the older asexuals section of this blog as the moderators here have recommended that I do. But sometimes, being a Physician, a Psychiatrist by specialty and of course a Teacher, more appropriately, a clarifier during the psychotherapy I conduct in my patients, I think of a topic that might help clarify certain concepts  regarding sexuality in normal people, like this topic I have started on the degrees of asexuality. I believe It is essential for Humanity, specially at the present moment, to make the concepts about normal Human sexuality as clear as we possibly can. And the best, and perhaps the only, way to do it is by giving opinions on the matter based on our knowledge of the subject at hand but perhaps more importantly, relating our personal experiences with the term asexuality. In your case, I, as well as Muledeer who opines above, do not agree with your opinion that most asexuals have normal libido. In my personal case, I realize now, being a heterosexual male by sexual orientation, I would NEVER think of having sex with a woman unless they ask me for it, and if I agree to their request, it would be strictly to give them pleasure and not for my pleasure of having my orgasm. I realize now that the way I am regarding this aspect of sexuality has been the responsible one in all the failures I have had in my marriages and sexual relationships, as all those have been with women with an average degree of sexual drive or libido as you call it. Ideally, I would like to find a woman with the same degree of libido that I have so we can mate our souls rather than our sexual organs. Children would come to us strictly because we know we must reproduce to keep the Genus Homo alive. But that's strictly my experience and opinion in this matter and I am sure there are very similar and very diffwerent opinions than my own.

[aero58]

7 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

Depends on how you're defining 'drive', many asexuals have a perfectly healthy, even high libido, they just have no desire to connect sexually with other people for pleasure no matter how high their libido is. They can also desire love and intimacy etc, it's just partnered sexual contact (partnered genital stimulation for sexual pleasure and orgasm) that they're not interest in and are generally happiest without it. Many asexuals I have met have been totally 'normal' sexually, get aroused from sexual stimulation etc, masturbate, some even desire to have kids.. They just get nothing out of partnered sex in the same way I don't get anything out of watching sports on TV - I'd rather kill zombies in Dark Souls.

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One thing is sexual orientation(heterosexuals, homosexuals and bisexuals) and another the degree of libido exhibited by the individual members of these groups. We MUST be as clear as possible on these terms before proceeding with this normal Human sexuality matter. Directly to you, FictoVore, and from your description of yourself in this matter, you might be bordering on the pathological scale of Human sexuality.

 

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, aero58 said:

 

As I am 70 yrs old, I usually post on the older asexuals section of this blog as the moderators here have recommended that I do. But sometimes, being a Physician, a Psychiatrist by specialty and of course a Teacher, more appropriately, a clarifier during the psychotherapy I conduct in my patients, I think of a topic that might help clarify certain concepts  regarding sexuality in normal people, like this topic I have started on the degrees of asexuality. I believe It is essential for Humanity, specially at the present moment, to make the concepts about normal Human sexuality as clear as we possibly can. And the best, and perhaps the only, way to do it is by giving opinions on the matter based on our knowledge of the subject at hand but perhaps more importantly, relating our personal experiences with the term asexuality. In your case, I, as well as Muledeer who opines above, do not agree with your opinion that most asexuals have normal libido. In my personal case, I realize now, being a heterosexual male by sexual orientation, I would NEVER think of having sex with a woman unless they ask me for it, and if I agree to their request, it would be strictly to give them pleasure and not for my pleasure of having my orgasm. I realize now that the way I am regarding this aspect of sexuality has been the responsible one in all the failures I have had in my marriages and sexual relationships, as all those have been with women with an average degree of sexual drive or libido as you call it. Ideally, I would like to find a woman with the same degree of libido that I have so we can mate our souls rather than our sexual organs. Children would come to us strictly because we know we must reproduce to keep the Genus Homo alive. But that's strictly my experience and opinion in this matter and I am sure there are very similar and very diffwerent opinions than my own.

By 'normal libido' I mean that many can get around and masturbate in the same way as anyone else, they just don't get anything out of having partnered sex and are happiest without it. You yourself may not have a regular libido, but that's only something that some asexuals experience. I have many asexuals here who masturbate multiple times a day, but (for the romantic ones anyway) they desire a sexless romantic relationship and are happiest without sex, despite having a very high libido. The libido just isn't directed at other people in the case of asexuals who experience this. They also only have sex within a relationship because their partner wants it (if they have a sexual partner and are willing to compromise) but certainly do not desire the sexual intimacy for their own pleasure and would be happiest if their partner suddenly became asexual so they could enjoy sexless romantic love with both partners still being able to be happy with that. This isn't an opinion, just to clarify, it's what I've actually seen more times in this community than I can count Sure there are sexual people out there like that too.. though they're a minority and I'd be interested to know what it is that they feel makes them 'sexual' if they truly have no desire for sexual intimacy with other people, ever. I may have misunderstood what you were saying there, but you seemed to be saying you're sexual and desire a sexless relationship? Had this always been the case or is it only as you got older that developed? Also, just to clarify (this keeps coming up in the forums lately and I don't know why) asexuals can want to have kids, I know many asexuals who DO have kids. Being asexual means you don't desire to connect sexually with others for pleasure, but you can still want to be a parent if you're asexual.

 

14 minutes ago, aero58 said:

(quote fail)

14 minutes ago, aero58 said:

One thing is sexual orientation(heterosexuals, homosexuals and bisexuals) and another the degree of libido exhibited by the individual members of these groups. We MUST be as clear as possible on these terms before proceeding with this normal Human sexuality matter. Directly to you, FictoVore, and from your description of yourself in this matter, you might be bordering on the pathological scale of Human sexuality.

You need to be careful around here using words like 'pathological' in reference to how asexuals feel and behave. Asexuality is a perfectly natural sexual orientation that has been observed in non-human animals as well as humans, and if someone has no desire to connect sexully with others for pleasure (regardless of the level of their libido) then it's no one else's business really. So they're not interested in having sex for pleasure, so what? I guarantee you the human race won't go extinct just because a very small minority of the population don't desire sexual intimacy for pleasure.

 

(To clarify, I was talking about watching sports, not sex, when I said I'd rather kill zombies. Though even for highly sexual people there are things they'll choose over sex depending on the mood they're in. For asexuals there will always be something else they'd rather be doing than having sex and there is nothing wrong with that)

 

 

[aero58]

2 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

By 'normal libido' I mean that many can get around and masturbate in the same way as anyone else, they just don't get anything out of having partnered sex and are happiest without it. You yourself may not have a regular libido, but that's only something that some asexuals experience. I have many asexuals here who masturbate multiple times a day, but (for the romantic ones anyway) they desire a sexless romantic relationship and are happiest without sex, despite having a very high libido. The libido just isn't directed at other people in the case of asexuals who experience this. They also only have sex within a relationship because their partner wants it (if they have a sexual partner and are willing to compromise) but certainly do not desire the sexual intimacy for their own pleasure and would be happiest if their partner suddenly became asexual so they could enjoy sexless romantic love with both partners still being able to be happy with that. This isn't an opinion, just to clarify, it's what I've actually seen more times in this community than I can count Sure there are sexual people out there like that too.. though they're a minority and I'd be interested to know what it is that they feel makes them 'sexual' if they truly have no desire for sexual intimacy with other people, ever. I may have misunderstood what you were saying there, but you seemed to be saying you're sexual and desire a sexless relationship? Had this always been the case or is it only as you got older that developed? Also, just to clarify (this keeps coming up in the forums lately and I don't know why) asexuals can want to have kids, I know many asexuals who DO have kids. Being asexual means you don't desire to connect sexually with others for pleasure, but you can still want to be a parent if you're asexual.

 

You need to be careful around here using words like 'pathological' in reference to how asexuals feel and behave. Asexuality is a perfectly natural sexual orientation that has been observed in non-human animals as well as humans, and if someone has no desire to connect sexully with others for pleasure (regardless of the level of their libido) then it's no one else's business really. So they're not interested in having sex for pleasure, so what? I guarantee you the human race won't go extinct just because a very small minority of the population don't desire sexual intimacy for pleasure.

 

(To clarify, I was talking about watching sports, not sex, when I said I'd rather kill zombies. Though even for highly sexual people there are things they'll choose over sex depending on the mood they're in. For asexuals there will always be something else they'd rather be doing than having sex and there is nothing wrong with that)

 

 

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Good discussion. And, if you read the news, you are right that the topic of Human normal and abnormal sexuality is in vogue now mainly maneuvered for political reasons. But that's those responsible for that, problem and, at least for me, not mine. My purpose is to clarify aspects of Human sexuality, specially asexuality, both to others and also to myself as this is a rather new theme for me. 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, aero58 said:

My purpose is to clarify aspects of Human sexuality, specially asexuality, both to others and also to myself as this is a rather new theme for me. 

That's been my purpose here on AVEN for years now, however my aim here is to clarify for people here what regular, normal sexual behavior looks like, with the purpose of bringing a better understanding of what asexuality is and is not. For example, some come to this community believing that you're asexual if you only desire sexual intimacy with people once you have developed a bond with them, believing that all regular sexual people want casual sex with attractive strangers and if you're not like that you must be asexual. In a circumstance like that, I explain that it's quite normal for sexual people (hetero/homo/bi/pan/etc) to only desire partnered sexual intimacy with someone once they have developed a bond with them. That's one example of many, but the main point I'm making is that many people come here with little to no sexual experience and are only going off 'well my friend said this' or 'I saw this on a movie' or 'I read that in a book'. And no, I am not someone who believes you can truly understand human sexuality, and human sexual behavior, from reading a book.. or 20 books, or from reading some research papers. You actually do need to develop that extensive sexual experience yourself, and/or speak to a lot of people who actually have that extensive experience, before you can begin to properly understand normal, regular sexual behavior. Many of the people who come to AVEN haven't had an opportunity to do any of that, so it's helpful helpful having people around who can explain what 'sexuality' feels like for your average sexual person. Otherwise you're left with a whole bunch of asexuals theorizing about what it must be like to be sexual, and basing their asexuality around these theories, when really no one knows for certain exactly what they're talking about  This is why it's so important to have experienced sexual people on AVEN, and fortunately we have plenty of sexual partners and allies here, plus people who were initially identifying as asexual but now know they're sexual, who are willing to help out and join in discussions. They're an invaluable asset to this community.

[nothinbuttrouble]

On 11/20/2017 at 8:41 PM, aero58 said:

Degrees of non-pathologic sexuality (as distinguished from decreased sex drive as in male hypogonadism, for example), vary from normal hyposexual to normal hypersexual (contrasting with the hypersexuality commonly seen in bipolar illness) and do indeed exist...

What I don't get about doctors and their reaction to asexuals is that many of them want to say it is a disorder, even though it logically can't be because most often it isn't causing the patient any distress or is negatively impacting their life- other than having to deal with a general lack of understanding and acceptance which is just the usual crap humans have to deal with from each other and does not a disorder make.

 

If it becomes acceptable to label things as disorders that aren't hurting the subject in the least, the medical community has jumped the shark.

[CosineTheCat]

@aero58 

 

As someone who studies psychology, I understand where you are coming from. However, there has been a lot of new research done within the last 10 years in particular to explain the more psychological/medical side of it. The sad truth is, places like AVEN have very muddled down versions of how to describe what is asexuality and how to describe someone who is asexual. The definition itself "Someone who does not experience sexual attraction" links basically back to itself because there is no clear or understandable definition of what "sexual attraction" is. 

 

I hope that you understand that within the newest release of the DSM-V, asexuality has been listed under the hyposexuality disorder clausing that someone who identifies as asexual shouldn't be diagnosed with it. This was pushed by multiple studies showing that asexuality is quite different than hyposexual disorder. That being said, I do also agree that there can be issues with people using the asexual label to cover up other mental health issues that they might be facing, but where I am currently (a psychology student) have no ability to make that call, not desire to. 

 

I know that currently, research is being done focusing on MRIs to seeing how asexual male brains differ from heterosexual male brains and homosexual brains. Sadly, there has been no update to when they'll do it for females. 

 

If you're ever interested in some of the studies that have been done or anything, pop me a line, I rather enjoy a good conversation about psychology and asexuality.  Many people like to disagree with me because they don't always like what I have to say, but you sound like you have an interesting opinion on the matter as a psychiatrist.