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It's okay to be white (campaign)


Yatogami

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1 minute ago, apatrickwsu said:

Then why say all lives matter or blue lives matter? wouldn't that be a non-sequitur?

Because the people supporting those movements don't see blacks as different from them. BLM is intentionally segregating itself to stand out. Why can't we work to end all police brutality, not just for black people? Then not all cops are bad, but they are being victimized due to the polarization of the subject of police brutality. So they also want their troubles heard for Blue lives matter.

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Just now, Yato said:

Because the people supporting those movements don't see blacks as different from them. BLM is intentionally segregating itself to stand out. Why can't we work to end all police brutality, not just for black people? Then not all cops are bad, but they are being victimized due to the polarization of the subject of police brutality. So they also want their troubles heard for Blue lives matter.

So you are saying that black people don't face a problem that is unique or worse for them. BLM is saying they do face discrimination and a higher level of police brutality. I stand by saying that is what BLM is about and the opposition to BLM denies it.

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1 minute ago, Groobly said:

Yeesh. That especially sticks in my craw, because if you can't trust these kinds of things you can't really trust much of anything to be honest.

Otherwise, I don't think you and I disagree as much as you think, at least in terms of what enlightenment entails. I'm not closed to outside ideas of what I believe. I love having discussions about other ideas with people who are reasonable enough to have a decent conversation. However, I personally think that includes avoiding places like 4chan, where good conversation goes to die, and not condemning an entire way of thinking as irredeemable and incapable of standing up to scrutiny. Doing so closes your mind to certain things, and usually ends up secluding yourself in an echo chamber.

I don't hang out in echo chambers. After all, I am on AVEN no? :P They are polar opposites in almost every respect, and I've taken things from both to sculpt what I believe in. 

 

The only things I avoid is places like Tumblr, because that just gives me brain cancer. 

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2 minutes ago, apatrickwsu said:

So you are saying that black people don't face a problem that is unique or worse for them. BLM is saying they do face discrimination and a higher level of police brutality. I stand by saying that is what BLM is about and the opposition to BLM denies it.

Actually, FBI statistics show that isn't true. It's the same for both blacks and whites. Black people also have more chances of being exposed to the police, due to how high the crime rates are in some of their communities. BLM likes to talk about police brutality, but failed to address the violence in their own communities. Which is a much bigger problem, that is a fact. Not a perception.

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1 minute ago, Yato said:

Actually, FBI statistics show that isn't true. It's the same for both blacks and whites. Black people also have more chances of being exposed to the police, due to how high the crime rates are in some of their communities. BLM likes to talk about police brutality, but failed to address the violence in their own communities. Which is a much bigger problem, that is a fact. Not a perception.

So you are denying it right now but are you still saying that isn't a reason anyone is opposed to BLM?

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1 minute ago, apatrickwsu said:

So you are denying it right now but are you still saying that isn't a reason anyone is opposed to BLM?

I'm saying people are not opposed to what the supposedly stand for. They are opposed to the hypocrisy, and misinformation they are spreading. 

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1 hour ago, Yato said:

Leftist ideologies are not that popular, because under real criticism they don't survive.

On Aven people are concerned about how the prevalence of Left wing ideologies may drive away right wing asexuals. Is this an indication that under criticism right wing ideologies don't survive? People on the left may feel alienated if there aren't many other left wingers and leave the website, but that doesn't mean the ideology itself is flawed. Additionally, sensitivity to criticism doesn't necessarily make someone wrong just like not caring what others think doesn't necessarily make someone right. Sometimes it just makes them an asshole. 

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This discussion about BLM isn't going anywhere. Do you deny that the intent of the posters is to say that the other side does think there is something wrong with being white and that is a straw man? And do you think that efforts to make nazi propoganda more palatable are good? And do you admit that is what started the campaign?

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If you want to nit pick, at least in the sociological realm of things, you "can't" be racist against white people because they're the ones with the sociological power. You can be stereotypical and the like but according to sociology, you can't be "racist". 

 

Honestly this just rubs me the wrong way. It's like they're trying to get people mad for the sake of getting people mad, which 4chan is notorious for. I understand having a 'private/inside' laugh at something with some friends but you really shouldn't put that shit online because someone, somewhere IS going to be taking that shit serious and to heart, which blossoms into a bomb of negativity. 

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4 minutes ago, apatrickwsu said:

This discussion about BLM isn't going anywhere. Do you deny that the intent of the posters is to say that the other side does think there is something wrong with being white and that is a straw man? And do you think that efforts to make nazi propoganda more palatable are good? And do you admit that is what started the campaign?

I know for a fact, the only purpose of these posters, were to draw attention to the internalized racism, and racism that people feel against white people. I was on 4chan the night this started (halloween). The posters were carefully and intentionally made to be as innocuous as possible, because they knew the media would call them racist. Thus confirming their hypothesis about them. It has nothing to do with nazi propaganda.

 

Although leftypol tried to co-op this experiment, and make their own versions. Anything that varies from the above, are not part of the campaign.

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Just now, Yato said:

I know for a fact, the only purpose of these posters, were to draw attention to the internalized racism, and racism that people feel against white people. I was on 4chan the night this started (halloween). The posters were carefully and intentionally made to be as innocuous as possible, because they knew the media would call them racist. Thus confirming their hypothesis about them. It has nothing to do with nazi propaganda.

 

Although leftypol tried to co-op this experiment, and make their own versions. Anything that varies from the above, are not part of the campaign.

Do you deny that anyone on /pol was talking about making the 14 words more palatable leading up to this campaign? Do you know that the people involved are for a white ethnostate in the US/Canada?

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From an outside point of view, really the "problems" with the BLM movement is how they've been notoriously silent when poc cops get killed but SCREAM if a white cop kills a poc civilian. Get mad when a civilian is unjustly killed, go for it, but why are you silent when a poc cop gets killed? I've had issues with how they blocked roads because if EMS needs to get through, those are vitals seconds and minutes of playing car tetris for them to get through and save the patients' lives because they don't have everything in those EMS vehicles. 

 

Like any social group trying to get change, there's issues going on. What they stand for is good, but it often glosses over every other minority (transgender, LGBT+, Asian, etc.) out there. There's also the extremists in the group where they'll use BLM walks as an excuse to cause property damage.

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8 minutes ago, apatrickwsu said:

Do you deny that anyone on /pol was talking about making the 14 words more palatable leading up to this campaign? Do you know that the people involved are for a white ethnostate in the US/Canada?

I don't understand what you mean by "leading up to the campaign". 

 

If anything is connected to Nazism in this, is they got the idea for fliers from it.

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18 hours ago, Eureka. Immense. said:

again because of their skin color? No, they were prejudiced against because of national origin. 

The idea that Irish people were slaves in America is a myth and nothing endured by the Irish in America (while it was terrible) is comparable to the slave trade. 

 

are groups of people (of color) rallying against the Irish and Armenians? No. It is not comparable to groups of white people (Irish, German, Dutch...whathaveyou) forming racist groups against "people of color"

What's the difference? Skin color? National origin? isn't discriminating against one or the other effectively equivalent? If they're not, then who cares since they're so close anyhow. 

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Knight of Cydonia

There are unfortunately a growing number of people who believe you can't be racist towards white people, or that all white people are racist, that black people can't be racist, etc. "Reverse racism" does not exist - it's just racism. Doesn't matter what skin colour you are, you can still be racist or experience racism.

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“Ironically racist” is an ironic statement in itself. How can racism be expressed “ironically”, it would still be racism.

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7 hours ago, Yato said:

. If you're strong enough to endure the ironic racism, shock images, and other terrible things. You can have real debates.

You can actually have real debates elsewhere, without having to deal with that sh*t.  

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1 hour ago, SkyWorld said:

“Ironically racist” is an ironic statement in itself. How can racism be expressed “ironically”, it would still be racism.

I think what they mean by, "ironically racist" is acting racist just to make people angry. 

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29 minutes ago, m4rble said:

I think what they mean by, "ironically racist" is acting racist just to make people angry. 

This, they do it because they like triggering people. It isn't just racism that they use either. Gore is another one that I have seen used. 

 

58 minutes ago, Sally said:

You can actually have real debates elsewhere, without having to deal with that sh*t.  

I have tried actually, and everyone is like AVEN now-a-days. 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Yato said:

This, they do it because they like triggering people. It isn't just racism that they use either. Gore is another one that I have seen used. 

I don't think this is a positive thing to do. 

1 minute ago, Yato said:

I have tried actually, and everyone is like AVEN now-a-days. 

What is that supposed to mean? 

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21 minutes ago, m4rble said:

What is that supposed to mean? 

I was responding to Sally. Real debating doesn't happen anymore. For the same reasons it is hindered here. 

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9 minutes ago, Yato said:

I was responding to Sally. Real debating doesn't happen anymore. For the same reasons it is hindered here. 

Debates do happen here though. Although I think it can be hindered when threads get locked, some aspects of Aven probably improve it. If ad hominem attacks were allowed on Aven, debates might just devolve into shouting matches. 

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4 minutes ago, m4rble said:

Debates do happen here though. Although I think it can be hindered when threads get locked, some aspects of Aven probably improve it. If ad hominem attacks were allowed on Aven, debates might just devolve into shouting matches. 

What makes 4chan better though, is that insults don't do anything. Because if you are debating on 4chan, you have already had to overcome the worst insults imaginable. 

 

AVEN hinders political discussion, for fear of offending people. You cannot talk about many subjects, because of that. 

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Just now, Yato said:

What makes 4chan better though, is that insults don't do anything. Because if you are debating on 4chan, you have already had to overcome the worst insults imaginable. 

So you just have to filter through fifty people calling you a homo so you can find a reply of substance? I don't think that really fosters genuine debate. 

 

2 minutes ago, Yato said:

AVEN hinders political discussion, for fear of offending people. You cannot talk about many subjects, because of that. 

What can you not talk about? If you know how to state your opinions in the correct way you can usually state them without breaking the ToS. 

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1 hour ago, m4rble said:

So you just have to filter through fifty people calling you a homo so you can find a reply of substance? I don't think that really fosters genuine debate. 

 

What can you not talk about? If you know how to state your opinions in the correct way you can usually state them without breaking the ToS. 

Because AVEN defines what is "correct" and what isn't. That doesn't allow for an equal platform for all ideas. Since its a safe space. 

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The Terrible Travis
11 hours ago, Yato said:

Leftist ideologies are not that popular, because under real criticism they don't survive.

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So you just have to filter through fifty people calling you a homo so you can find a reply of substance? I don't think that really fosters genuine debate.

It doesn't. I've been on 4chan plenty of times and I wouldn't call anything I read worthy of being called a "debate". You will have a couple of people say something of substance but the rest is usually sexual innuendos, n-words, f-words, and other slog. I actually don't mind reading sites that have little to no filter since it is interesting to see people being their most honest without worry of getting in trouble, but there are much better sites like that for debate. 

 

Quote

Leftist ideologies are not that popular, because under real criticism they don't survive.

Funny. I constantly see the opposite. Even in those anti-politically correct sites,  many of their arguments wouldn't hold water in a well done debate. 

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20 hours ago, Groobly said:
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I believe many of the political, educational, and scientific studies in modern times have become tainted due to the politicalization of certain subjects.

Yeesh. That especially sticks in my craw, because if you can't trust these kinds of things you can't really trust much of anything to be honest.

Thing is, you can't. Studies and the like are carried out and published by humans. Humans will be influenced by all kinds of things. We live in a system with a certain power structure to it, hence why pretty much anything in our society is biased in a certain way. For instance, you won't find much actual research on communism and other alternative economic systems, because obviously the scientists are being paid by people who have a vested interest in keeping the current capitalist system running. Likewise, the reason you can even find studies that question climate change, or somehow say it's okay to continue burning fossile fuels, is because the energy industry is willing to cash out big to anyone who can support their narrative.

 

Sure, the scientific community is set up in such a way that it's not entirely possible to just tell outright lies for the most part. But you can twist and bias and muddy the waters until crucial insights are drowned out, and the status quo can carry on.

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