It's okay to be white (campaign)

[Eureka. Immense.]

23 minutes ago, Cimmerian said:

Really, that was what you wanted to argue with?

Not at all. My questions were merely to clarify what you meant. Not to belittle the experiences of white people who feel prejudiced against by people of color. 

 

I stand by my argument that there really isn't a need to be "reassured" that it's okay to be white. See above comments. 

 

My mentioning of blm was to give an example of a flier you might see around college campuses that is considered controversial. A point of reference with little bearing on the conversation or my issue with the idea that the 4chan campaign should be lauded for exposing some "racist media backlash" towards white people in general.

[dianaisace]

This is a senseless campaign made to victimize themselves. Everyone knows it's okay to be white. Putting signs advertising it implies that you've interpreted others don't think it's okay to be white, which is completely untrue. White people, especially in America, have nothing to fear and there is no racial bias against them. This is just silly. Maybe instead of insisting on this "reverse racism" we could speak about the deaths of black children and adults by the hands of the police, the labor discrimination against the entire hispanic community, and the poor treatment of the immigrant community there. Everyone knows it's okay to be white. Parading around the signs like white people are victims is simply a method of provocation that was 100% intended. I don't think there should be legal action against the people who put them up (after all, there is no hate speech, even if the message is nasty) but it just sounds like a poor attempt to get attention by bored white teenagers on 4chan.

[Tarfeather]

2 hours ago, CaptainYesterday said:

How have SJWs taken over the entire Left if they are this gullible?

They haven't. What has happened is that almost everyone on the left who's actually serious about it has been undermined by the establishment. That's what happens when the media and pretty much any other form of income (research budgets etc.) are controlled by a small elite of people, who can very easily say "We'll not give any voice to anyone who works against our interests". So, the people on the "left" you will still find today in university, on mainstream media, etc. are only the ineffective kind that don't threaten establishment power, what you call "SJWs". Would do you well to turn your attention to the actual conspiracy happening right before your eyes, rather than take the bait and complain about those evil feminists.

 

 

re: original topic. As a white "cis" (not really but that's how I present) male, yeah, sometimes I wish somebody would tell me it's okay to be that. Because I feel like there's this constant assumption that I have this huge amount of "privilege" for being that. When in reality, I'm from the poorest background possible in my country, I factually know that a woman with equivalent qualifications would be chosen over me for any job position in my field of work, the constant prejudices people have against me for being male are killing me, and the assholes in my country who discriminate based on race will also discriminate against me anyway for other reasons.

 

And here's the thing. There's this feminist idea (I'm not saying it's mainstream feminism, but it does exist), that even suggesting that men have problems too in society is mysoginistic. I'm sure the same applies to race, too, the idea that just suggesting that whites are sometimes discriminated against, is somehow racist against people of colour. And that's just some divisive bullshit. We should come together and care about everyone's problems, not make it about one specific group.

 

I think that many people view this kind of campaign as a sort of attack on the left, but IMO it's the opposite. It's a challenge to us to be principled and consistent, and hey, if we actually rose up to that challenge and said "Yup, it's okay to be white", then maybe we could win some people over to our side? Not the assholes from 4chan who made the campaign, but just neutral bystanders. Anyway.

[SkyWorld]

Yeah. One of people in a social group I hang out with had found a couple of those laying around campus. Most people were like "yeah sure, okay whatever", it's okay to be any skin color. To be honest, I heard that 4chan's true goal was just to piss off racial minorities and supporters, and failed (at least from my college) to receive that reaction. Not necessarily to make the statement that racism against white people exist (which of course anyone of any color can be). Though, wouldn't be fair to lump everyone up for having that intent, surely some people were genuinely trying to make that point.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Yato said:

 

As many of you may have seen, 4chan launched a "It's okay to be white" campaign, to prove to the world that the main stream media, and many other outlets are secretly racist against white people. They had assumed any person who had picked this story up, as somehow "racist", where indeed secretly racist. It had worked like a charm, and media sources have picked it up, claiming it to be racist. When in fact, it was intended to be the opposite by its creators. 4chan intentionally designed the signs to be as inoffensive as possible, said as inoffensively as possible. 

 

As someone who witness the birth of this movement, I have to agree. There is some racism against white people, as they are scapegoated as the main source of any discrepancy between races constantly. Many will call it reverse racism, but that is silly. There is racism, and there is not. If you judge making decisions based on the color of someone's skin, you are being racist. End of story. 4chan has proven once again, that it exists very clearly on both sides. 

 

Thoughts?

It was very clever and to be honest I don't care where it was or why it was said this actually reassured me. 

[Sea Lemon]

It just seems kind of petty and pointless to be honest *shrug*

[gaogao]

Lmao saying "it's OK to be white" isn't technically racist, it's just stating a universally known fact that all non-white people know, but that I guess white people might sometimes need to be reminded about?

 

To me it's like a sign that says "It's OK to be rich" or "It's OK to be straight".. they aren't classist or homophobic strictly speaking, they're just statements that are kind of silly and obvious to the point they sound almost unnecessary.

 

Like Duh.

 

Even though I am not white, not straight and not male. I consider myself rich. I'm pretty sure I've had a lot of privileges I don't know about due to my family's wealth that a straight white cis man from a different class background wouldn't have had. I don't know what it's like to be struggling to pay bills or not be able to afford food. I got on the property ladder before the age of 25 because my parents helped me.

 

Maybe this isn't a perfect comparison but I feel like it might be similar. It's a case of guilt, feeling like "is it okay for me to be fine while others are struggling with problems I'll never understand or be able to deal with?" rich people like me can make a difference by using our money -- our privilege -- to help people who are struggling, while white people and straight people can use their voices -- their privilege -- to speak up about the experiences of racial and sexual minorities who struggle to be heard. This might not be as tangible as giving someone money, which makes white people feel even more helpless and guilty, but I think it comes from a similar place.

 

A white straight cis man will never know the sorts of abuses/experiences I have faced because of my race, sexuality or gender. Of course that's okay, I'd rather never have faced those problems either... but there's no use feeling guilty about not experiencing those things, just like it's useless for me to feel guilty about having money.  We shouldn't really need to say we're okay to justify why we deserve our own privileges or seek to legitimize being ok when others are not.

 

Just saying.

[WinterWanderer]

I agree with the motivations behind the movement. In the scheme of things, it may breed more racism, as people who merely glance at the photos and don't do more research may jump to conclusions (as the media already has). And that would instill even more deep-seated derision.

 

I think that there need to be more efforts made to bring people together, not further divide us. That's something that politicians and the media have failed to do thus far. And to clarify, I don't know if it should be the responsibility of the media or of politicians to create that feeling of security and peace that we need right now. It certainly would be helpful if they would... but that may be something that we will have to do ourselves.

 

It's sad that this is still an issue.

 

This is somewhat off-topic, but I'm tired of the rampant stereotyping that's plaguing our society. And it's not just racial stereotypes. It's weird how many people weigh in on both sides of the "millennials are evil" and "baby boomers doomed the future" debates. Surely people know that not everyone who was born in a certain decade thinks and acts the same way... right? *eyeroll* It's so weird. Instead of blaming others for the world's problems based on when/where they were born, the color of their skin, their identity, etc., why can't we all just work together to make the world a little better? Is that too idealistic to hope for?

[Guest]

This campaign kinda gives me that “the pot telling the kettle” feel, not to mention that it’s just another sad attempt of the cool kids trying to fit in using reverse racism as a sad excuse. 

I kinda expected better from humanity in their attempt to raise awareness amongst eachother 

 

Ahwell

 

Maybe i’m too old for this

 

*Wanders off to JFF*

[Mostly Peaceful Ryan]

7 hours ago, m4rble said:

If the reaction is, "mostly fine" why do people have such a bad reaction to the phrase, "black lives matter"? 

I think they have bad reaction to the movement, not the phrase. I take issue with the movement.

[Homer]

That's what we need. More internet rage I say go for it. Let people spam their brains out on 4chan and Faceblargh and Twitter and all the other interactive puke buckets. The more the better. The more they post, the less time they have for doing actual damage.

 

I'm surprised that people still jump on every bandwagon they come across - and somehow I'm not surprised at all. People can hashtag all they want, personally I don't give a damn about any of these fads.

 

*carries on with day*

[Was here]

It's okay to be any skin color. It's not something you can control. I'm white, it's something that my DNA made me have, and it's just a part of my body. I'm not proud of it, it just...is. This campaign doesn't make any sense.

 

Also, it's from 4chan, 4chan is full of people that post controversial things because they think it's funny or something.

[Comrade F&F]

To be honest, this is ingenious in my opinion. It is totally okay to be white, just like it's totally okay to be any ethnicity, race, or color. If people are getting worked up for it, it's exactly how it was expected to pan out.

[Skycaptain]

It's 4 Chan, nuff said really 

[Yatogami]

5 hours ago, SkyWorld said:

Yeah. One of people in a social group I hang out with had found a couple of those laying around campus. Most people were like "yeah sure, okay whatever", it's okay to be any skin color. To be honest, I heard that 4chan's true goal was just to piss off racial minorities and supporters, and failed (at least from my college) to receive that reaction. Not necessarily to make the statement that racism against white people exist (which of course anyone of any color can be). Though, wouldn't be fair to lump everyone up for having that intent, surely some people were genuinely trying to make that point.

I can assure you they were not doing it to piss off minorities. They did it as an experiment, to spark discussion to a long festering problem. Because the only other response to this poster other than "Yeah, it's okay" is "No, it's NOT okay to be white". 

 

Media reacted as if these were white supremists adverts. 

[Yatogami]

1 minute ago, Skycaptain said:

It's 4 Chan 

As horribly racist as 4chan can be, it's far more racially, and politically diverse, than any other site and plays a huge cultural influence in the internet culture. It's Reddit without the training wheels. 

[Groobly]

2 hours ago, Yato said:

As horribly racist as 4chan can be, it's far more racially, and politically diverse, than any other site and plays a huge cultural influence in the internet culture. It's Reddit without the training wheels. 

The only race and political position that doesn't get shouted down on there is white people and conservatives, at least on their most popular boards, being /b/ and /pol/. Even if you are something that's not one of those two things and you're browsing the website, it's hard not to feel alienated when you see another thread calling non-whites subhuman. There's not much redeeming about that website.

 

This coming from there of all places kinda weakens the message a bit, no? I do think the media should have researched it more, but at the same time they kind of made it easy for them. They hear of this movement, probably Google it to see what it's about, see that it originated on 4chan's /pol/ board, and now they have their propaganda piece and anyone who decides to look into it more will find the same information they did and come to the same conclusion, that this is likely a movement for white supremacists. Even if it's an incorrect conclusion, it being from there kinda...like I've said, muddies the issue.

[m4rble]

9 hours ago, SkyWorld said:

Yeah. One of people in a social group I hang out with had found a couple of those laying around campus. Most people were like "yeah sure, okay whatever", it's okay to be any skin color. To be honest, I heard that 4chan's true goal was just to piss off racial minorities and supporters, and failed (at least from my college) to receive that reaction. Not necessarily to make the statement that racism against white people exist (which of course anyone of any color can be). Though, wouldn't be fair to lump everyone up for having that intent, surely some people were genuinely trying to make that point.

I think that's probably the best reaction. It's not useful for anyone to get emotionally invested in the stupidest things, except for maybe instigators. (why are there so many of those these days?) I don't think I would really react to these posters if I saw them, there are much worse things people spread around. 

[m4rble]

9 hours ago, Lei_101 said:

It was very clever and to be honest I don't care where it was or why it was said this actually reassured me. 

It wasn't something made to reassure people, it was literally designed to try to provoke people. There are better ways of getting reassurance than through internet trolls. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, m4rble said:

It wasn't something made to reassure people, it was literally designed to try to provoke people. There are better ways of getting reassurance than through internet trolls. 

I said it was clever and that I didn't care where or what it was for. 

[m4rble]

2 minutes ago, Lei_101 said:

I said it was clever and that I didn't care where or what it was for. 

Okay. 

[Yatogami]

34 minutes ago, Groobly said:

The only race and political position that doesn't get shouted down on there is white people and conservatives, at least on their most popular boards, being /b/ and /pol/. Even if you are something that's not one of those two things and you're browsing the website, it's hard not to feel alienated when you see another thread calling non-whites subhuman. There's not much redeeming about that website.

 

This coming from there of all places kinda weakens the message a bit, no? I do think the media should have researched it more, but at the same time they kind of made it easy for them. They hear of this movement, probably Google it to see what it's about, see that it originated on 4chan's /pol/ board, and now they have their propaganda piece and anyone who decides to look into it more will find the same information they did and come to the same conclusion, that this is likely a movement for white supremacists. Even if it's an incorrect conclusion, it being from there kinda...like I've said, muddies the issue.

That is the entire point of 4chan though. It wants to be unappealing to "normies", because they degrade the level of real discussion. If you're strong enough to endure the ironic racism, shock images, and other terrible things. You can have real debates. If you can't actually debate, you will get shot down hella fast. So you have to have authentic conviction, and understand your shit. Because everyone on pol is used to debating on post-college levels. 

 

And no, /pol/ has everything. They have what is known as "Leftypol". If you don't check out the site consistently, and or at different times. You would never see them. Using the catalog and archive is a very effective way to find those threads. Then you have "general" threads of a variety of things from Natsoc, Ancap, and Communism. Then you got religion threads from Islam, to Pagan. Just gotta find them.

[Groobly]

16 minutes ago, Yato said:

That is the entire point of 4chan though. It wants to be unappealing to "normies", because they degrade the level of real discussion. If you're strong enough to endure the ironic racism, shock images, and other terrible things. You can have real debates. If you can't actually debate, you will get shot down hella fast. So you have to have authentic conviction, and understand your shit. Because everyone on pol is used to debating on post-college levels.

It's not ironic racism. It may have started out that way, but they've been being "ironically racist" for so long they've attracted real racists to the website, and those real racists have attracted other racists, and so on. There's still people that are..."ironically racist" (which shouldn't even be a thing) there, but they're among genuine racists, and at this point the distinction is kinda lost. Also, it's hard to have anonymous debates because nobody is beholden to any actual decorum, so while there's probably lots of genuine conversations going on there, I'd hardly call them debates.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Yato said:

And no, /pol/ has everything. They have what is known as "Leftypol". If you don't check out the site consistently, and or at different times. You would never see them. Using the catalog and archive is a very effective way to find those threads. Then you have "general" threads of a variety of things from Natsoc, Ancap, and Communism. Then you got religion threads from Islam, to Pagan. Just gotta find them.

Alright, since I don't go there myself and only know of it's reputation, I can't vehemently argue any counter to that, but I have a feeling these generals are trolled to oblivion, and "Leftypol" sounds like a slur, so I imagine they're not exactly liked. However, I can't imagine anyone wanting to have a genuine discussion there with anti-race mixing and Holocaust truther threads being popular. I went there just to have a look around just now and immediately found threads like that, so I have to imagine those kinds of things are common.

[Yatogami]

1 minute ago, Groobly said:

It's not ironic racism. It may have started out that way, but they've been being "ironically racist" for so long they've attracted real racists to the website, and those real racists have attracted other racists, and so on. There's still people that are..."ironically racist" (which shouldn't even be a thing) there, but they're among genuine racists, and at this point the distinction is kinda lost. Also, it's hard to have anonymous debates because nobody is beholden to any actual decorum, so while there's probably lots of genuine conversations going on there, I'd hardly call them debates.

 

 

Alright, since I don't go there myself and only know of it's reputation, I can't vehemently argue any counter to that, but I have a feeling these generals are trolled to oblivion, and "Leftypol" sounds like a slur, so I imagine they're not exactly liked. However, I can't imagine anyone wanting to have a genuine discussion there with anti-race mixing and Holocaust truther threads being popular. I went there just to have a look around just now and immediately found threads like that, so I have to imagine those kinds of things are common.

You forgot shilling, and subversion threads.

 

You are right about it attracting real racists to 4chan. It happens when you become more "mainstream". And since 4chan was given some publicity during Trump' s election. They got a flood of normies and racists. These people are put into one group called "nupol". There have also been a flood of well paid "shills" that dish out propaganda in attempts to use 4chan's influence on the internet to spread ideas. It is truly a unique site, with a complex culture and ecosystem. Real 4chan users know how to spot fake ones, and will call them out.

 

You get the good with the bad, and honestly if you are bludgeoned with propaganda from all sorts of things, and begin doubting. Then do you actually believe in those things? It's a good way test your conviction.

 

You will question things, the longer you are there. Leftist ideologies are not that popular, because under real criticism they don't survive. It takes a real open mind to understand 4chan in its entirety. Just takes a bit of courage.

[Groobly]

17 minutes ago, Yato said:

You are right about it attracting real racists to 4chan. It happens when you become more "mainstream". And since 4chan was given some publicity during Trump' s election. They got a flood of normies and racists. These people are put into one group called "nupol". There have also been a flood of well paid "shills" that dish out propaganda in attempts to use 4chan's influence on the internet to spread ideas. It is truly a unique site, with a complex culture and ecosystem. Real 4chan users know how to spot fake ones, and will call them out.

Well, /pol/ had a reputation for these kinds of things long before the election, so I don't think it's quite honest to say the 2016 election is what brought these people in. I do believe you about the paid trolls thing, though. I think that's already been proven. It's interesting.

 

19 minutes ago, Yato said:

You get the good with the bad, and honestly if you are bludgeoned with propaganda from all sorts of things, and begin doubting. Then do you actually believe in those things? It's a good way test your conviction.

You will question things, the longer you are there. Leftist ideologies are not that popular, because under real criticism they don't survive. It takes a real open mind to understand 4chan in its entirety. Just takes a bit of courage.

I subject myself to all kinds of different perspectives. I've also been down the path that often leads people to becoming "red pilled", and ultimately I've found more truth in the ideas these kinds of people oppose. That's your subjective opinion to be honest. Both political perspectives have their good and bad ideas, but ultimately I'm absolutely a leftist, and I've come to that position through being informed. It's not as black and white as "Leftist ideologies are not that popular, because under real criticism they don't survive."

[Yatogami]

12 minutes ago, Groobly said:

Well, /pol/ had a reputation for these kinds of things long before the election, so I don't think it's quite honest to say the 2016 election is what brought these people in. I do believe you about the paid trolls thing, though. I think that's already been proven. It's interesting.

 

I subject myself to all kinds of different perspectives. I've also been down the path that often leads people to becoming "red pilled", and ultimately I've found more truth in the ideas these kinds of people oppose. That's your subjective opinion to be honest. Both political perspectives have their good and bad ideas, but ultimately I'm absolutely a leftist, and I've come to that position through being informed. It's not as black and white as "Leftist ideologies are not that popular, because under real criticism they don't survive."

We can agree to disagree then.

 

I myself am not a Republican. I fall into center-right liberalism/centrism, that is nationalistic in foreign policy. 

 

I believe many of the political, educational, and scientific studies in modern times have become tainted due to the politicalization of certain subjects. Resulting in incorrect things being passed off as fact for political power gain. So I tend to take all sources with a grain of salt, because of the possibility of them being false is high. If you take everything taught or told to you as fact, even if they are a "verified source", you stop thinking critically. Opening up yourself to influences that seek to control you. So I find questioning even the things you take as inflliable, makes you more of a critical, and free thinker. 

[apatrickwsu]

It is a substitute for the 14 words. It also makes an implication that the left (or BLM or some "other" group) is saying that it isn't okay to be white. The opposition to black lives matter is people who are insulted by the idea that they don't think black lives matter and instead of listening about the problems with how african americans are treated by the police they come back defensively and dismiss the idea that black people face any discrimination by using "all lives matter" or "blue lives matter" - this is largely just an extension of that.

[Yatogami]

1 minute ago, apatrickwsu said:

It is a substitute for the 14 words. It also makes an implication that the left (or BLM or some "other" group) is saying that it isn't okay to be white. The opposition to black lives matter is people who are insulted by the idea that they don't think black lives matter and instead of listening about the problems with how african americans are treated by the police they come back defensively and dismiss the idea that black people face any discrimination by using "all lives matter" or "blue lives matter" - this is largely just an extension of that.

I'm pretty sure the opposition to BLM,  was due to their actions. Not what they stood for.

[apatrickwsu]

Just now, Yato said:

I'm pretty sure the opposition to BLM,  was due to their actions. Not what they stood for.

Then why say all lives matter or blue lives matter? wouldn't that be a non-sequitur?

[Groobly]

3 minutes ago, Yato said:

I believe many of the political, educational, and scientific studies in modern times have become tainted due to the politicalization of certain subjects.

Yeesh. That especially sticks in my craw, because if you can't trust these kinds of things you can't really trust much of anything to be honest.

Otherwise, I don't think you and I disagree as much as you think, at least in terms of what enlightenment entails. I'm not closed to outside ideas of what I believe. I love having discussions about other ideas with people who are reasonable enough to have a decent conversation. However, I personally think that includes avoiding places like 4chan, where good conversation goes to die, and not condemning an entire way of thinking as irredeemable and incapable of standing up to scrutiny. Doing so closes your mind to certain things, and usually ends up secluding yourself in an echo chamber.