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Ciri

Ciri's Guide to Appealing

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Ciri
Ciri's Guide to Appealing

Hey, you! You've got a warn or a nudge. That must suck for you, especially if you feel it is unwarranted. Take it from me (the person with no less than 15 warns to my username) and I will guide you into having a successful appeal.

 

What you need to do is read the PM carefully, the incredibly annoying overly formal pretentious writing may surprise you at first and it may be really hard to get wade through to the important points. Admods use a template, personally I don't think there is anybody on the team right now who can write a good warn PM. If everybody can forget to add in that the person is able to appeal a decision, then there's something wrong. Sometimes it can be hard to tell the difference between a nudge and a warn, it's not always made explicit. If you've got a nudge: tough shit, you can't appeal it. If you've got a warning, continue reading on.

 

So the way Admods work is, a report is made and then it sits in the report forum until somebody gets round the reading the thread and commenting. This 'we discuss it for hours' business is bullshit. Sometimes there may only be a few posts before it is polled for a decision. Not every admod comments on these threads. Then there's the voting itself, there is an option for 'abstaining' which means the Admod doesn't can't be involved due to conflicting interests i.e. They're friends with one of the reported people, or the 'victim'. There are a ridiculous amount of cases where most should have pressed that button and haven't.

 

When it comes to actually appealing, the only way you have a chance of being successful is if incorrect procedures have been followed. Then you have to convince Admods that they have used the incorrect procedures. Which is near on impossible. They'll only change their minds if the BoD step in.

 

So what you need to do to successfully appeal a decision, is to sit down on your sofa, crack open a bottle of wine and laugh about the whole damn situation. Because you're going to find more joy at the bottom of that bottle than you will by spending hours on a letter that doesn't have a hope in hell of succeeding. 

 

giphy.gif

 

 

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.Lia
Just now, Ciri said:
Admods use a template, personally I don't think there is anybody on the team right now who can write a good warn PM.

1. Templates have been updated just in the last few days (yay!)

2. I can write a warn with my eyes closed (uhhh only sometimes literally) ;) 

 

 

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Ciri
Just now, .Lia said:

1. Templates have been updated just in the last few days (yay!)

2. I can write a warn with my eyes closed (uhhh only sometimes literally) ;) 

 

 

Oh yeah, I forgot you exist :lol: 

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Snao Cone

Wine gives me bad hangovers. Can I substitute that with hard liquor?

 

(Seriously, though, this is a good thread.)

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InquisitivePhilosopher

:lol: Cute meme.

 

That was a good post. I'd add, "Maybe it'd help to remind yourself, 'Hey, at least they didn't ban me, and are giving me a second chance.'"

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Janus DarkFox

A good brandy can only help anyone banned outside ToS.

 

There's little to no formal procedure for Warns and Bans made outside the rules.

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Yato

-sips his red wine-

 

I'm not joking, I literally had wine as you made this thread. 

 

I think you all need a vacation.

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Ciri

Everyone needs to lighten up a bit.

 

With a bottle of wine or alcoholic beverage of your choice.

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CaptainYesterday

Can you appeal a nudge now?

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♣Ryan♣
2 minutes ago, CaptainYesterday said:

Can you appeal a nudge now?

Nope

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InquisitivePhilosopher

You guys are fortunate that you're able to appeal, nowadays, with real humans. In the late 90's, forum bans were apparently left to automated computer programs, which would flag certain unknown words that users wouldn't know they weren't allowed to use; the offensive words that members weren't allowed to use were hidden, so you'd only know if you said something wrong when you were suddenly banned.

 

In one of the first forums I joined when I was an early teen (I was the minimum age allowed), their computer system suddenly banned me without any warning or any explanation about what it thought I'd done wrong, even though I'd never sworn at or threatened anyone. My parents monitored everything I'd written, too, and even they couldn't figure out why that forum's system had flagged something I'd written as being offensive. The only thing I could imagine was that it might've flagged my slang use, "Oh, man," as being offensive or misogynistic, even though my family used that phrase all the time.

 

My parents tried to contact the forum mods to appeal, but they didn't respond to their emails or reinstate my account. So, my mother had to sign up, herself, in order for me to continue reading the forum.

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pook
14 minutes ago, CaptainYesterday said:

Can you appeal a nudge now?

Sort of. Nudges are sent individually, so if you can convince the person who sent it that it's not valid, they can retract it. 

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CaptainYesterday
8 minutes ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

You guys are fortunate that you're able to appeal, nowadays. In the late 90's, forum bans were apparently left to automated computer programs, not real humans, which would flag certain unknown words that users wouldn't know they weren't allowed to use; the offensive words that members weren't allowed to use were hidden, so you'd only know if you said something wrong when you were suddenly banned.

 

In one of the first forums I joined when I was an early teen, their computer system suddenly banned me without any warning or any explanation about what it thought I'd done wrong, even though I'd never sworn at or threatened anyone. My parents monitored everything I'd written, too, and even they couldn't figure out why that forum's system had flagged something I'd written as being offensive. The only thing I could imagine was that it might've flagged my slang use, "Oh, man," as being offensive or misogynistic, even though my family used that phrase all the time.

 

My parents tried to contact the forum mods, but they didn't respond to their emails or reinstate my account. So, my mother had to sign up, herself, in order for me to continue reading the forum.

That doesn't sound like an automated system, that just sounds like a moderator team who were jerks and didn't like you.

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Pramana

For perspective, I've been spending a lot of time on 4chan, and it's anyone's guess how their moderation system operates.

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Snao Cone

I'd imagine it works similar to gunslingers in old Western films.

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Yato
16 minutes ago, Pramana said:

For perspective, I've been spending a lot of time on 4chan, and it's anyone's guess how their moderation system operates.

They only stop spam imo, everything else is free game xD 

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Pramana
1 minute ago, Yato said:

They only stop spam imo, everything else is free game xD 

I'm told that for a while they also stopped pony posts (from MLP fandom) until they made a dedicated quarantine board for such content.

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Yato
1 hour ago, Pramana said:

I'm told that for a while they also stopped pony posts (from MLP fandom) until they made a dedicated quarantine board for such content.

That has happened with a lot of boards. They also have that holiday, where they merge 2 boards together. This year it was /pol/ and /mlp/ in one, and it was fantastic. 

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Jayce
13 hours ago, Yato said:

-sips his red wine-

 

I'm not joking, I literally had wine as you made this thread. 

 

I think you all need a vacation.

Or a day at the beauty spa :P 

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Snao Cone

OOH let's all get massages!

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Janus DarkFox
On 14/11/2017 at 11:53 PM, Yato said:

They only stop spam imo, everything else is free game xD 

Pretty much anything as long s it's within the law, otherwise everything and anything is that of 4Chan, free speech, free expression and anything in-between.  Each board may only be up for a few hours so anything that's said or done there disappears without a trace.

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Yato
11 minutes ago, Janus DarkFox said:

Pretty much anything as long s it's within the law, otherwise everything and anything is that of 4Chan, free speech, free expression and anything in-between.  Each board may only be up for a few hours so anything that's said or done there disappears without a trace.

It's actually archived. Other sites save everything. So it's not completely gone.

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Pramana
26 minutes ago, Janus DarkFox said:

Pretty much anything as long s it's within the law, otherwise everything and anything is that of 4Chan, free speech, free expression and anything in-between.  Each board may only be up for a few hours so anything that's said or done there disappears without a trace.

Suffice to say, 4chan's ToS makes for an interesting comparison to AVEN's ToS. I've been keeping track of 4chan discourse regarding asexuality, representing a significantly different community culture.

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Ciri

Adding onto this. 

 

I personally think that members should be told when Admods are discussing to permanently ban them and when they are discussing warning them. It might make them ‘behave’ a little better. 

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♣Ryan♣
7 hours ago, Ciri said:

I personally think that members should be told when Admods are discussing to permanently ban them and when they are discussing warning them. It might make them ‘behave’ a little better. 

Make the admods behave better or the member that is violating some rules to be at the point of banned or warned behave better?

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Janus DarkFox

Yes, other sites archive everything from existing boards, creating new boards may not auto archive from external software.

 

Whats stopping any archiver software to auto archive AVEN databases on all access levels?

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Skycaptain

With the exception of a few spammer and blatant offensive content posters, people generally only get considered for banning if they've on two active warnings. Warnings now have to be acknowledged by the member before they can continue posting. Surely a two week site suspension ought to be a clear enough message that carrying on in that particular vein could result in a site ban 

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Ciri
1 hour ago, Skycaptain said:

With the exception of a few spammer and blatant offensive content posters, people generally only get considered for banning if they've on two active warnings. Warnings now have to be acknowledged by the member before they can continue posting. Surely a two week site suspension ought to be a clear enough message that carrying on in that particular vein could result in a site ban 

Depends on if the other warns were complete BS. Ya know, say for example the member was being harassed by certain Mods and they didn’t like that member biting back. 

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♣Ryan♣
18 hours ago, Ciri said:

Depends on if the other warns were complete BS. Ya know, say for example the member was being harassed by certain Mods and they didn’t like that member biting back. 

If  an admod is harassing a member it can be reported to an admin, the member shouldn't be breaking the ToS to get back at that admod. How are the other admods suppose to know a member is having issues with a mod if it isn't told to them, from their point of view it would just be a member breaking the ToS.

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Sally
18 hours ago, Ciri said:

Depends on if the other warns were complete BS. Ya know, say for example the member was being harassed by certain Mods and they didn’t like that member biting back. 

Oh, come on.  

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