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Member44496

Aven banned word poll

should the following words be banned on aven?  

86 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the word 'dick' be banned?

    • Yes
      9
    • No
      77
  2. 2. Should the word 'pussy' be banned?

    • Yes
      14
    • No
      72
  3. 3. Should the word 'bitch' be banned

    • Yes
      14
    • No
      72
  4. 4. Should the word 'bastard" be banned?

    • Yes
      5
    • No
      81
  5. 5. Should the word 'cunt' remain banned?

    • Yes
      45
    • No
      41


Recommended Posts

m4rble
Just now, CaptainYesterday said:

Weaponized reporting is an issue on any forum with an overly-strict ToS.

Do you think Aven has an overly strict TOS? IF so, which parts of the ToS do you think are overly strict?

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Serran

For the record, if we notice a trend in vendetta reporting, we do discuss and attempt to curb said behavior. As we've mentioned in Site Comments before (in a discussion about threads being locked). That is something we admods do frown upon. 

 

However, many times people assume they are being reported by the same person (or persons) and the assumptions are incorrect. 


And frivolous reports are dismissed, without action, after the admod of the section reviews it. 

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CaptainYesterday
2 minutes ago, m4rble said:

Do you think Aven has an overly strict TOS? IF so, which parts of the ToS do you think are overly strict?

The language rules, actually.

 

The thing is, right now they are strict but also discriminatory, which is worse than just being strict.

 

Strict but equal is better.

 

Less strict is ideal.

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Karret
5 minutes ago, m4rble said:

Is this really an issue though?

I've been here sporadically, since the time I first felt my attitude and personality wasn't very welcome here. Every time, there has been forums talking about issues like these. Since I first came here, I've seen instances of users abusing the report button. I'm hardly ever here, and yet, it's pretty easy to find instances of disgruntled members. Stories of others from these users being totally driven off the site. Do I have a firm understanding of exactly how widespread or minimal the issue is? No, but the fact of the matter is, it seems to be a pretty consistent issue that's making some folks feel unwelcome and alienated.
This should be looked into, as absolutely objectively as is possible, to look into the veracity of the claims. Instead, it's all being swept under the rug. That's not a good reaction, imo, when you don't want to even acknowledge the possibility, everything's hunky dory here, nothing to worry about, you're just overreacting.... well, if there's no problem, why not look into it with an open and honest mind?

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CaptainYesterday
2 minutes ago, Karret said:

I've been here sporadically, since the time I first felt my attitude and personality wasn't very welcome here. Every time, there has been forums talking about issues like these. Since I first came here, I've seen instances of users abusing the report button. I'm hardly ever here, and yet, it's pretty easy to find instances of disgruntled members. Stories of others from these users being totally driven off the site.

Things are worse now, I think.  There used to be a larger group of people who went against some of the more heavy-handed moderation and tone of these forums, but most of them were banned or left, it seems.

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Karret
5 minutes ago, Serran said:

For the record, if we notice a trend in vendetta reporting, we do discuss and attempt to curb said behavior. As we've mentioned in Site Comments before (in a discussion about threads being locked). That is something we admods do frown upon. 

 

However, many times people assume they are being reported by the same person (or persons) and the assumptions are incorrect. 


And frivolous reports are dismissed, without action, after the admod of the section reviews it. 

I see. Glad to hear it. <3
Curious; if at first you don't suspect it's vendetta reporting, how do you react, and what is done for the user who is reported if actions were taken against them?

Have you noticed certain users frivolously reporting more than others, and if so, do you discuss that issue with them?

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Karret
2 minutes ago, CaptainYesterday said:

Things are worse now, I think.  There used to be a larger group of people who went against some of the more heavy-handed moderation and tone of these forums, but most of them were banned or left, it seems.

^ This is something mods should be thinking about pretty seriously. If ace people come here, looking for a community of other ace people, but are run off because they don't fit the personality mold, they are then left to wander alone or in very small groups, thinking that they are the only ones who think or feel the way they do. How is that any better than the general treatment aces most commonly report by society at large?

AVEN may be lightyears better than what I've heard about the tumblr ace community, but that doesn't mean there aren't issues that should be discussed.

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Serran
Just now, Karret said:

I see. Glad to hear it. <3
Curious; if at first you don't suspect it's vendetta reporting, how do you react, and what is done for the user who is reported if actions were taken against them?

Have you noticed certain users frivolously reporting more than others, and if so, do you discuss that issue with them?

When we receive a report, we PM the user who reported the issue acknowledging we received a report. Then, we review the report and the thread in question. If the admod who is moderating the section decides there was a ToS violation, they have a few options: Nudge to let them know it's not OK behavior, bring it up to the team for discussion, or if solo modding, they can issue a warning on their own (though the team can reverse it if we decide it was unfair).

 

If we notice a trend of vendetta reporting, then we have a few options. But, yes we discuss it with people if they do that. Because, for one, it gives us hours of extra work for no reason (sorting through 50+ reports to figure out if any have a ToS violation is not fun). For two, it's a form of harassment on a user and not OK. 

 

And, no, we don't get a lot of the vendetta reporting, honestly. Sometimes users don't get along, but it tends to turn into arguing in threads and maybe we have to jump in to try to mediate sometimes. But, the mass reporting of one user by another is a rare thing. 

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CaptainYesterday
Just now, Karret said:

^ This is something mods should be thinking about pretty seriously. If ace people come here, looking for a community of other ace people, but are run off because they don't fit the personality mold, they are then left to wander alone or in very small groups, thinking that they are the only ones who think or feel the way they do. How is that any better than the general treatment aces most commonly report by society at large?

That was the big argument.  Is this a website for Asexuals, or for Asexuals with specific politics?  I think the fact that people felt the need to create an offshoot at least helps to answer the question.

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Karret
2 minutes ago, Serran said:

When we receive a report, we PM the user who reported the issue acknowledging we received a report. Then, we review the report and the thread in question. If the admod who is moderating the section decides there was a ToS violation, they have a few options: Nudge to let them know it's not OK behavior, bring it up to the team for discussion, or if solo modding, they can issue a warning on their own (though the team can reverse it if we decide it was unfair).

 

If we notice a trend of vendetta reporting, then we have a few options. But, yes we discuss it with people if they do that. Because, for one, it gives us hours of extra work for no reason (sorting through 50+ reports to figure out if any have a ToS violation is not fun). For two, it's a form of harassment on a user and not OK. 

 

And, no, we don't get a lot of the vendetta reporting, honestly. Sometimes users don't get along, but it tends to turn into arguing in threads and maybe we have to jump in to try to mediate sometimes. But, the mass reporting of one user by another is a rare thing. 

Is there ever a discussion with the one who was reported, like to hear their side and take that into consideration before potential disciplinary action is taken?

For the rest; good to hear.

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Serran
Just now, CaptainYesterday said:

That was the big argument.  Is this a website for Asexuals, or for Asexuals with specific politics?  I think the fact that people felt the need to create an offshoot at least helps to answer the question.

There have been multiple "off shoots" - and honestly I wish we could have a few established asexuality websites besides AVEN, but they keep dying out before they really get going. There are few minority groups that have just one main website and not really much of an alternative. We need the variety, eventually. So, personally, I try to encourage people making their own communities. 

 

AVEN has a specific value set, which is determined by the BoD and David Jay. Some things, such as the "safe space" focus, are not negotiable. Even if all admods were to vote to over turn certain core values, it wouldn't matter. So, if people want a different type of environment, I do encourage creating one. Personally, I've got Skype groups when I want to discuss things that I couldn't really say on AVEN. 

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ChillaKilla
1 minute ago, Karret said:

Is there ever a discussion with the one who was reported, like to hear their side and take that into consideration before potential disciplinary action is taken?

For the rest; good to hear.

I’m not a moderator but personally I like to read the declassified threads in the Admod Archives so I can get an insight into what goes on behind the scenes around here.

plus reading about some of the more heated occurrences on this site, even if they’re older, can still be quite entertaining :P 

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apatrickwsu
5 minutes ago, Karret said:

I see. Glad to hear it. <3
Curious; if at first you don't suspect it's vendetta reporting, how do you react, and what is done for the user who is reported if actions were taken against them?

Have you noticed certain users frivolously reporting more than others, and if so, do you discuss that issue with them?

I'm not a mod, but I am interested in being one eventually so I've read some of the declass threads and you can see instances they talk about "person 1" filing a lot of reports about "person 2" or just filing a lot of reports in general and you can tell how they use that information in their debate and decisions. I don't know if they talk to the person filing reports about their reporting though, that isn't as clear.

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CaptainYesterday
3 minutes ago, Serran said:

AVEN has a specific value set, which is determined by the BoD and David Jay. Some things, such as the "safe space" focus, are not negotiable.

Except when a man is asking for a safe space against misandristic slurs?

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apatrickwsu

I swear Chilla and me aren't the same person but wow that was a coincidence.

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Karret
1 minute ago, Serran said:

There have been multiple "off shoots" - and honestly I wish we could have a few established asexuality websites besides AVEN, but they keep dying out before they really get going. There are few minority groups that have just one main website and not really much of an alternative. We need the variety, eventually. So, personally, I try to encourage people making their own communities. 

 

AVEN has a specific value set, which is determined by the BoD and David Jay. Some things, such as the "safe space" focus, are not negotiable. Even if all admods were to vote to over turn certain core values, it wouldn't matter. So, if people want a different type of environment, I do encourage creating one. Personally, I've got Skype groups when I want to discuss things that I couldn't really say on AVEN. 

Have you considered "partnering up" in a sense, with one of the offshoots, or direct new users who come here to those offshoots if you notice them exhibiting behavioral tendencies that don't align with the core values of AVEN, and they are disgruntled about it? Not like.... trying to get the other site to conform to the standards here, but simply to give users who come here an alternative that they can go to if you feel that the way they wish to behave isn't acceptable here? This could be a bypass to my suggestion of a separate subforum for people who disagree with certain stances here.

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Karret
4 minutes ago, apatrickwsu said:

I'm not a mod, but I am interested in being one eventually so I've read some of the declass threads and you can see instances they talk about "person 1" filing a lot of reports about "person 2" or just filing a lot of reports in general and you can tell how they use that information in their debate and decisions. I don't know if they talk to the person filing reports about their reporting though, that isn't as clear.

Got lost in the pronouns - do you mean the mods use the info of the report-happy user in their decisions? If that's the case, that's good.
Serran says they discuss with the report-happy user, and I've got no reason to be paranoid against that; though having some maybe older messages declassed, with identifying information redacted, might be a good transparency move; so that it can be pointed out to a user who maybe won't believe something just based on the words alone.
Hearing that there are declassed threads of mods discussing reports and disciplinary actions is also a good thing, for much the same reason.

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Karret
12 minutes ago, ChillaKilla said:

I’m not a moderator but personally I like to read the declassified threads in the Admod Archives so I can get an insight into what goes on behind the scenes around here.

plus reading about some of the more heated occurrences on this site, even if they’re older, can still be quite entertaining :P 

Is it very common for the admods to have direct communication with the person who was reported before they act?

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♣Ryan♣
25 minutes ago, apatrickwsu said:

I don't know if they talk to the person filing reports about their reporting though, that isn't as clear.

When I was an admod, we would generally PM the person reporting the issue and thank them for the report and let them know we have brought it up with the admods, and allow them to add anything further if they want.  If the person reports "Frivolously" I'd usually treat them the same, as sometimes reports made by those members were useful. Just because someone reports maybe too much doesn't mean all their reports are useless, so I'd rather sort them out then try and tell them to not report as much and maybe lose some of the useful reports. 

 

12 minutes ago, Karret said:

Is it very common for the admods to have direct communication with the person who was reported before they act?

 

No It's not common but it sometimes happens, for example if the person is actively engaging in behavior that might get them in more trouble or if you need to lock a thread with them, or if they were in chat and kicked by an admod. 

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Serran
1 minute ago, Karret said:

Is there ever a discussion with the one who was reported, like to hear their side and take that into consideration before potential disciplinary action is taken?

For the rest; good to hear.

We cannot tell the user they have been reported, that breaks rules about confidentiality. However, if it's a case where the user isn't likely to have known it was a ToS violation, it tends to be a nudge (which is just a PM from an admod showing you the ToS and explaining the problem with what you posted, it isn't a warning and comes with no restrictions on your account). Then, if you do it again, you're likely to get a warning because you've had the issue explained to you already and you then know you're breaking the rules. 

 

Just now, ChillaKilla said:

I’m not a moderator but personally I like to read the declassified threads in the Admod Archives so I can get an insight into what goes on behind the scenes around here.

plus reading about some of the more heated occurrences on this site, even if they’re older, can still be quite entertaining :P 

And yeah, the declassed threads show exactly how things are handled. I can't say it's perfect, there are many times I've disagreed with a decision, but it's usually democratic and, after three months, everyone can see what happened. 

 

Just now, CaptainYesterday said:

Except when a man is asking for a safe space against misandristic slurs?

 

I've asked for research, studies, articles or polls to provide evidence for it being a slur on the level with the other slurs on the list. A singular user issuing a complaint is rarely going to change a rule, unless they provide enough RL evidence to show there is an issue with something. It takes either enough of the user base being of the opinion, or sufficient evidence. As of now, neither has been provided. If you do provide some, I will happily create a discussion in the back room about it. A user changed the rule surrounding the Pepe memes by providing me with evidence (FOUR HOURS OF READING ABOUT A MEME, SERIOUSLY WHAT AM I DOING WITH MY LIFE) that it was not offensive. And I followed up said evidence with my own research about it, including emailing the ADL for their official stance. So, I'm happy to expand on research once provided with some, but presenting a well put together argument (with resources) helps a lot in trying to change any rules. At one point, the word "pussy" was up for discussion and it was decided there was insufficient evidence of it being offensive enough to be on the banned list. So, it's not just your complaint.

 

4 minutes ago, Karret said:


Serran says they discuss with the report-happy user, and I've got no reason to be paranoid against that; though having some maybe older messages declassed, with identifying information redacted, might be a good transparency move; so that it can be pointed out to a user who maybe won't believe something just based on the words alone.
Hearing that there are declassed threads of mods discussing reports and disciplinary actions is also a good thing, for much the same reason.

Often drafts of messages are in the old discussion threads, though I cannot recall in the last two cases if they were or not. They were a while ago. But, declass works like this: 

 

The declass team is working on the older threads first, but if you want a specific thread declassed, you can submit a request. So, say you got a warning and want to know what was discussed. Submit a request with declass and in 3 months (the waiting period for new threads), you will get to see the thread and the full discussion around your warning. Any policy discussions are declassed ASAP (unless it was disciplinary). So, there is a fair amount of declassed content you can read in the archives, if you're interested. 

 

AND I CAN'T QUOTE ANYMORE FOR SOME REASON.... 

 

As for admod communication with those reported: As I said, we can't tell someone they were reported. However, if I catch something and I can cool it off, I'll PM the users involved. Such as a thread is heating up and reports are coming in about it, I'll jump in and prevent any further ToS violations. Or, if a new user were to use a word they shouldn't (and honestly, new users have no way of knowing), I'll edit the word out and let them know what happened and why and direct them to the ToS rather than going through the warn process. Stuff like that. Though, I prefer to jump in before reports start flying and keep anyone from getting in trouble to begin with, if I can. :)

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apatrickwsu
10 minutes ago, Karret said:

Got lost in the pronouns - do you mean the mods use the info of the report-happy user in their decisions? If that's the case, that's good.

Yes, they talk about recent reports or threads that might be relevant to the admods decision. And by decision I mean that a lot of the declass threads are a mod telling the other mods that there has been a report and what the circumstances are, and they have a poll for all the admods to vote on if any bans, warns, or nudges should come from the report or they discuss other kinds of moderator actions like a "play nice" post or things like that to deal with the situation.

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Karret
22 minutes ago, Serran said:

We cannot tell the user they have been reported, that breaks rules about confidentiality. However, if it's a case where the user isn't likely to have known it was a ToS violation, it tends to be a nudge (which is just a PM from an admod showing you the ToS and explaining the problem with what you posted, it isn't a warning and comes with no restrictions on your account). Then, if you do it again, you're likely to get a warning because you've had the issue explained to you already and you then know you're breaking the rules. 

 

And yeah, the declassed threads show exactly how things are handled. I can't say it's perfect, there are many times I've disagreed with a decision, but it's usually democratic and, after three months, everyone can see what happened. 

 

 

Often drafts of messages are in the old discussion threads, though I cannot recall in the last two cases if they were or not. They were a while ago. But, declass works like this: 

 

The declass team is working on the older threads first, but if you want a specific thread declassed, you can submit a request. So, say you got a warning and want to know what was discussed. Submit a request with declass and in 3 months (the waiting period for new threads), you will get to see the thread and the full discussion around your warning. Any policy discussions are declassed ASAP (unless it was disciplinary). So, there is a fair amount of declassed content you can read in the archives, if you're interested. 

 

AND I CAN'T QUOTE ANYMORE FOR SOME REASON.... 

 

As for admod communication with those reported: As I said, we can't tell someone they were reported. However, if I catch something and I can cool it off, I'll PM the users involved. Such as a thread is heating up and reports are coming in about it, I'll jump in and prevent any further ToS violations. Or, if a new user were to use a word they shouldn't (and honestly, new users have no way of knowing), I'll edit the word out and let them know what happened and why and direct them to the ToS rather than going through the warn process. Stuff like that. Though, I prefer to jump in before reports start flying and keep anyone from getting in trouble to begin with, if I can. :)

Oh.... How does it break confidentiality if you don't tell them who reported them?

Is there ever a chance for them to discuss why they believed whatever they got nudged for shouldn't have been considered reportable, and if they attempt to, what's the general approach then?
 

-nod- I see.
cool. o 3o

Aaahh, I gotta say, I take issue with posts just being edited like that. That happened to me and was a big part of the reason why I stopped feeling comfortable hanging out here anymore. Felt like someone didn't want to understand why I thought it was okay to use the word, and instead just ran off and reported it and there was no discussion or thought given to my side. It was very jarring and uncomfortable, and it wasn't just someone else said something I didn't like, it was that my post was altered because someone else didn't like a word I wrote. I don't think I was even referring to the person I had been talking to, just idk some point I disagreed with.

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CaptainYesterday
37 minutes ago, Serran said:

I've asked for research, studies, articles or polls to provide evidence for it being a slur on the level with the other slurs on the list.

The Men's Rights Movement has no such resources or influence to have such things at their defense.  This is like asking pre-Feminism women "all you have to do is find me institutional support for the right to vote, how hard could that possibly be?"  I'm not going to be able to find an article on HuffPo about this, because even if they were presented the story, they wouldn't run it due to ideological biases.  There is no movement in academia to run studies that help men.  In fact, it's not uncommon for studies that attempt to show discrimination against women to be swept under the rug when they backfire and actually show discrimination against men.

 

Again, I have to ask: why is it that social opinion and institutional power matter only when the issue affects men negatively?  The admins make their own moral judgments for every other rule, but here you need a Doctoral thesis to explain why insulting someone by calling them the male genitalia is discriminatory?

 

I might be able to find you random discussions from random nobodies about the nature of this double standard, I know I've seen enough, but it's not like I've kept a list.

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Snao Cone
2 hours ago, ChillaKilla said:

plus reading about some of the more heated occurrences on this site, even if they’re older, can still be quite entertaining :P 

This was by far the main highlight of being on DT. :P It really puts the current environment in perspective to compare it to a time when I wasn't here, and what variations of moderating styles the community has seen over time.

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m4rble
5 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

This was by far the main highlight of being on DT. :P It really puts the current environment in perspective to compare it to a time when I wasn't here, and what variations of moderating styles the community has seen over time.

So, how do you think it has changed over time? 

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Snao Cone
12 minutes ago, m4rble said:

So, how do you think it has changed over time? 

It varies depending on the individual moderators. I was mostly buried in threads from 2013 due to the backlog, so there were many admods back then who aren't in those roles anymore, but their moderating styles were evident in how they handled the discussions. At some times there appeared to be more diversity in these styles, but I can't think of any specific examples right now because a) I haven't been on DT for two months so I'm no longer immersed in that, and b) it's well past my old fart bedtime.

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FictoVore.

Why is there no option for not having any words banned? If they're being used to insult people that's obviously still bannable as insults are against ToS, but banning words themselves (just in general) seems a bit silly to me.

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Sally
8 hours ago, CaptainYesterday said:

I usually don't vote for moderators because I don't believe they can actually affect anything.  I can't even get someone to type four letters into a list of words that almost no one even reads in the first place. 

 

What, exactly, is a moderator going to do when the admins don't care about causes that don't affect them, personally?

But you very often ask mods to lift nudges, etc.  and complain about them in other ways.  If they can't affect anything, why do that?  

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Sally
3 hours ago, CaptainYesterday said:

The Men's Rights Movement has no such resources or influence to have such things at their defense.  This is like asking pre-Feminism women "all you have to do is find me institutional support for the right to vote, how hard could that possibly be?"  I'm not going to be able to find an article on HuffPo about this, because even if they were presented the story, they wouldn't run it due to ideological biases.  There is no movement in academia to run studies that help men.  In fact, it's not uncommon for studies that attempt to show discrimination against women to be swept under the rug when they backfire and actually show discrimination against men.

 

Again, I have to ask: why is it that social opinion and institutional power matter only when the issue affects men negatively?  The admins make their own moral judgments for every other rule, but here you need a Doctoral thesis to explain why insulting someone by calling them the male genitalia is discriminatory?

 

I might be able to find you random discussions from random nobodies about the nature of this double standard, I know I've seen enough, but it's not like I've kept a list.

so in other words, we're simply supposed to rely on your opinion  that the C word is no worse than the P word.  Your opinion as fact, even though you can present no facts. 

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FictoVore.

I personally hate the P word (if we are talking about the word that used to be applied to cats?) and don't use it unless I'm describing someone I really don't like (like the male feminist in the vagina hat who ripped Blaire White's fingernail off by stomping on her hand!), but the C word is more funny, or a term of endearment that I use during intimacy etc :o I think this must have quite a bit to do with which country you're from though!

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