Femininity as an AFAB person

[The-world-is-quiet-here]

Hi! 

 

This will probably be a word vomit, cause I’m not sure how to word it... 

 

okay so, my family in general is pretty accepting of LGBTQ people. But one of my grandmas in particular is very religious and “traditional.” She seems to have noticed that I don’t act very feminine, and if I do ever wear a skirt or nail polish, she comments on how ~feminine~ it is. And not only that, but how feminine it is on me.

 

This generally doesn’t make me dysphoric, but it rubs me the wrong way. I wish I could occasionally be feminine without it being a big deal. 

 

That being said, there are multiple other issues here:

1. I’m not out to this grandmother as genderfluid, because I think that wouldn’t go well, and her words -or her silence- would hurt me greatly.

2. I’m also not out to her as bisexual, because then she would have some idea of “oh, TWIQH (my abbreviated username) will have a boyfriend and marry a man! She’s actually straight after all!” which doesn’t feel like who I am, at this point.

3. I know that stereotypically ~androgynous~ people are thin muscular masculine AFAB people. I know that isn’t the only way to be androgynous, but I still wish I looked like that. Probably because it’s somewhat more societally accepted. Idk.

4. Does anyone have suggestions for how to look more androgynous.... how do I say this.... like, organically? I’m not planning on going on T at this point. I don’t feel like it’s something I need. I think it would complicate things. 

5. Do any other nonbinary AFABs have problems with femininity? Or what’s perceived as femininity?

 

You can comment if you want. Thanks for reading  

 

[Emery.]

I don't have much to say.

 

As for "organic" androgyny, the only thing I can come up with is excersice. However, I'm not sure to which extend it works. I excersice a lot, because I like sport, and I'm just not sure. It made a difference in the beginning. However, "fit female" is a "look" too. Other than that, I think you know what I know. Short hair, binding/otherwise covering up or flattening the chest. Men's clothes do a lot. A lot. From the men's section. 

 

As for femininity, I have problems with it, but a bit different, I like to wear nail polish, I don't like my hair completely short, sometimes I like to wear skirts... nobody notices I'm not a feminine woman. It's stupid to judge people by such minor things, but here we go, most people are stupid. 

[Calligraphette_Coe]

Barbara Walters once interviewed Katherine Hepburn and asked her "Do you even own a skirt?", to which Hepburn replied, "I'll wear it to your funeral."

 

Your avatar picture reminds me of a young Patti Smith, an early punk rocker/ singer/songwriter. I'd say to google up images of her and study them. She really strikes a good androgynous pose on the cover of her debut album 'Horses'.

 

Or if you want to dial it up an androgynous notch, try images of Radclyffe Hall.

 

Of course, I'm the other side of the coin, and have been told things like 'you're too pretty to be a boy' when I was younger. And it's different on this side of the fence.

 

But not as different as you would imagine. It's all sometimes about misdirection and how you carry yourself.

[Luftschlosseule]

I like my hair long, just how it feels. I love nail colour and lipsticks, but I hate that it makes people read me as woman.

In summer, I have troubles with mosquitoes that always find me, so I usually have a net over my bed so that I can sleep in peace without being disturbed by those bloodsuckers, and I really hate it when people see it an refer to it as a princess bed. No guys, it's more like a neccessity for adventurers travelling in rain forest.
I am annoyed by people describing a handwriting as girly just because it's aesthetically pleasing. A bra is not a woman's item per se, or a tampon. These are items often used by women, but not exclusively. Blargs.

[Guest]

I'm super girly and love feminine stuff so much i can't say goodbye to it. I just hate being read as a woman all the time.As for androgyny, men's clothes work the best. I usually mix and match them with my female clothes to create that look i love so much. I think you also might want to look into sport bra's or a binder if you really want to look as androgynous as possible. I myself prefer baggy sweaters and sports bra's/tops because you can't wear a binder for long.

[swirl_of_blue]

I would actually want to occasionally dress more feminine on occasions, but I feel I simply can't do it: everyone would just see it as me "finally acting my sex". It wouldn't even need to be super-feminine, but even nail polish, a bit of eyeliner or shaving my legs occasionally would be nice. I would need to be albe to have days when I can be super-masculine just to remind people of what I am, and with the body I have that is not possible so I just settle for being boring and looking like totally nothing at all: jeans and a hoodie every day, no makeup and hairstyle limited to "I think I remembered to brush it this morning...maybe".

[Mezzo Forte]

You know, I thought I'd be more okay with feminine gender expression as I started passing better, but if anything, it makes a lot of feminine clothing look even more wrong on me, to the point of dysphoria.

 

I have women's clothes that are androgynous in their design that I am okay with. (I'm going to be honest; there's an outfit in the back of my closet that I love trying on in private, but I'd be pegged for gay/queer in a nanosecond and that's not the kind of attention I want.) When they're cut to a distinctly feminine fit though, they just look terrible.

 

That said, I have items that I distinctly prefer the women's versions of, especially wristwatches. Men's watches are just too bulky, and I know cis men who prefer women's watches for the same reason. I still use women's vitamins because they have higher iron content and my ferritin tends to run low, so might as well buy the supplement that has more potential to benefit me. I'm also contemplating growing out my hair again someday, as I did take some pride in my lion's mane. I'm just going to make sure I have a beard to complete the look.

[butterflydreams]

20 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

I still use women's vitamins because they have higher iron content and my ferritin tends to run low, so might as well buy the supplement that has more potential to benefit me.

Iron content is the only difference between men’s and women’s multivitamins. They should call them with iron and without. The reason women’s have iron is because normally women have a way to dispose of iron (a period). But not all women have them. Including cis women who are post menopausal. If I took a multivitamin I’d have to take men’s because I don’t have a way to dispose of iron. 

[Mezzo Forte]

20 minutes ago, butterflydreams said:

Iron content is the only difference between men’s and women’s multivitamins. They should call them with iron and without. The reason women’s have iron is because normally women have a way to dispose of iron (a period). But not all women have them. Including cis women who are post menopausal. If I took a multivitamin I’d have to take men’s because I don’t have a way to dispose of iron. 

There's actually vitamins targeted at postmenopausal women that lack the iron content too. It's definitely silly to gender vitamins though, and my grandfather (who is a medical professional) pretty much thinks that gendering vitamins is a giant scam. My primary doctor only believes that vitamins are helpful if you're treating a deficiency, so she's on board with me taking women's vitamins, even if we're getting less and less concerned over my ferritin levels over time because a lot of my other iron-related levels are just fine and I'm not anemic.

 

Knowing what I know about marketing, I'm not even shocked that vitamins are gendered instead of marked with/without iron. Marketers are all about appealing to market segments, and segments are so much bigger than niches that they often involve large demographics such as gender. That's why so many of them resort to stereotypes and paint huge groups of people with a broad stroke; that's the only way they know how to speak to a mass audience while still targeting that demographic. That element of marketing always disturbed me a bit because it seems to work in most cases.

[ChickenPadSeeEew]

On 10/11/2017 at 11:22 AM, Calligraphette_Coe said:

Barbara Walters once interviewed Katherine Hepburn and asked her "Do you even own a skirt?", to which Hepburn replied, "I'll wear it to your funeral."

 

Ahahaha! WHAT A LEGEND.

 

I was AFAB, too. When I eventually realised I was genderfluid, I actually stopped rejecting feminine-coded stuff (which I hadn't even realised I'd been rejecting) and suddenly embraced it and felt so much freer to enjoy some of that. (Well, just vintage dresses. I'm still disinterested in the other 'feminine' stuff) I think I stopped seeing clothing as having a gender--or indicating my own gender, especially to me--and instead saw clothes as just being clothes; clothes I like to wear or not.  

 

But wearing more dresses led to so many people commenting on how lovely and feminine I looked. It's not a strategy that would work for all, but I've noticed my brain just started to convert their words to: "Wow, I love your dress!" It works for me. But I'm usually excited about my dresses! And I'm also of an age where I don't really care for other people's opinion, so if they 'compliment' me on looking feminine, my head just turns it into the compliment I want and expect it to be. Dresses! HA.

 

When I'm feeling like a guy or genderless, I tend to wear clothes that are flat and straight, probably to match my picture of me in my head. Like jeans, sneakers, and big t-shirts. I wear my hair pulled back and low. I've thought about going on T for a brief period. I'd sometimes like a harder, stronger jawline and (this sounds weird) harder, stronger eyebrows. My voice is already low.

 

(But sometimes I feel just as much a guy or genderless when I'm wearing a dress...)

[Amathy]

I wear whatever clothes are most comfortable.  I pass as androgenous enough to confuse people.  This one story sticks out in my mind as relevant to this conversation.  Someone asked me if I was a man or a woman.  I asked them why it mattered.  Someone else came up and said I was wearing women's boots so I must be a women.  Everything else I was wearing that day came from the men's department.  The boots weren't even that feminine, just basic black winter boots with a tan fur lining. Still bugs me that by wearing a single article of women's clothing, it is assumed by strangers that I must be a women.

[Nylocke]

On 11/9/2017 at 8:22 PM, Calligraphette_Coe said:

Barbara Walters once interviewed Katherine Hepburn and asked her "Do you even own a skirt?", to which Hepburn replied, "I'll wear it to your funeral."

 

Somehow if I said that to someone they'd probably have me up on murder charges without me even having to do anything I dress pretty gender neutral for the most part. I don't own a skirt nor a dress unless a chinese dress that I found at goodwill a couple years ago counts for anything.