awkward things that we gender (contains some insensitive descriptions)

[apatrickwsu]

Hey everyone, so I had a good conversation with a friend "S" but part of what I was thinking in the conversation rubbed me the wrong way. When I identify myself I am getting better at explaining the part about being aromantic and pansexual, but I usually only have a shallow conversation about why I say I'm only a "mostly cis" male. Usually I can just describe that I have the privilege of not thinking about gender. Outside of lifting something heavy I don't ever think about masculinity, the only time I feel anything about gender is when I feel especially separate from men or masculinity. And that is usually as deep as that part goes. But my friend S asked me what are some of the things that feel especially female gendered in myself. I talked a little about gender presentation and I think I'll always be seen as a man and my body doesn't bug me in terms of gender (self image for weight and how ugly I think I am do bug me, but not gendered), but in terms of gender roles and gender identity is where I occasionally feel more female.

 

She politely called me out for not answering and didn't pressure but did say that doesn't answer what particular roles and parts of identity feel female. The weird thing that came prominent in my mind was the way I experience sexual attraction. I said that the way I feel sexually attracted to women and some non-binary people is based a lot on aesthetic and attitude and to me it is consistent with how I think men are attracted to women. But the way I feel sexual attraction to men is different, it is first of all much rarer, and it is based on different things. It tends to involve some kind of admiration or wanting acceptance and is usually toward public figures / unattainable people / fictional characters more than real life people I meet. I have a different perception of the typical way men might feel attraction to men that is more based on aesthetic, but it could be towards various archetypes. For example, a gay or bi man could be attracted towards either "bears" or "twinks" or behave "femme" or "butch" and I would still gender any of those roles and attractions as men and the way a man feels attraction toward men.

 

I don't really think that my thought of the way sexual attraction is different between men and women is accurate en masse. But for some reason it is something I think of in a gendered way, and I think there is some social construct that pushes that kind of view. I know that most of the people here don't feel sexual attraction so I don't expect a lot of people giving their own individual descriptions of sexual attraction, but maybe there are other things that people might want to bring up as being gendered other than body parts. Also, I apologize if I offended people using some of the words I did in the previous paragraph, it wasn't to offend or be homophobic.

[The Gnat (Natalie)]

Okay, I don't know if I can help with the gendered attraction thing, but I do want to mention something you wrote that I hadn't thought about before.

7 minutes ago, apatrickwsu said:

It tends to involve some kind of admiration or wanting acceptance and is usually toward public figures / unattainable people / fictional characters more than real life people I meet.

I had never thought of it like this, but that's what my attraction to women is like. I don't think it's really sexual attraction, but the most intense aesthetic and sensual attraction I feel is towards women who are unattainable (e.g. celebrities, fictional characters, and a couple of my professors... oops). Part of the reason that's wild to me is because I typically think of myself as demi-heteroromantic. (I've only ever had one real crush, but I feel like there's some kind of underlying thing about the way I see men that's inherently more romantic than how I see women. Idk, still confused.) I'm not being helpful at all, and I realize that, but I wanted to let you know how much I appreciate what you wrote here because that's something I had sort of noticed in myself and never been able to put into words, so thank you!

[binary suns]

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[apatrickwsu]

Thanks for that emphasis @float on, I definitely did understand your points already but I appreciate that I can clarify and agree when someone might have got the wrong impression just reading what I wrote. I don't want to step on toes or be an imposter as an identity that isn't mine just to sound persecuted or something. I am not looking to transition and don't really think myself really non-binary. As I said the way I talk about gender is three things, presentation is what the outside world sees you as - and for me that is as a man, I have a masculine body. Identity is how you define yourself, and I'm mostly okay with being cis male because I don't have a problem with my body's primary or secondary sex characteristics but since I have a real problem with the third part and feel a disconnect with being a man internally because of it I only "say mostly cis male". I do have a problem with the third part - gender roles including the behavior and feelings that are supposed to be male traits or female traits.

 

Basically I wish that gender roles weren't a thing but someone had a description of racism that can be modified to fit - living in society that has gender roles is like living in a place with air pollution. You might be able to see that there is pollution where others choose to be oblivious or pretend there is no pollution, but just by being there you are going to breathe in some pollution.

 

I definitely see patriarchal societal constructs with gender roles, including the very concept of masculinity. But something being a social construct doesn't make it purely imaginary and not having a real effect. Money is a social construct but we can still use it in a real way and it has a real effect on our lives. The gender roles that I don't want to exist are still enough to make me put that little asterisk next to calling myself a cis male.

 

Anyway, I really do appreciate your post but I also want to try to go back to my original goal and try to get other people's opinions on other things that might cause them to feel a degree of separation or dysphoria from their assigned sex other than their body parts. Another example that isn't sexual attraction because that was a weird thing to open with on AVEN is that my reaction to having a bad day is something I feel is gendered. One of the responses I have to having a bad day is to try to have emotional catharsis by watching stuff that makes me cry over and over. I don't think of that as a typical female response, but it does make me separate from being a man. By the way I don't just mean watching a beloved movie or something, I will legit spend hours watching poems that make me cry, especially the one in the spoiler here, which is beautiful but not the point of this post. Ugh, now I'm in that head space. When I don't carefully plan out what I want to write my stream of consciousness can suck.

Spoiler

 

 

[binary suns]

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[binary suns]

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