Relationship troubles – maybe she's asexual?

[Spectrogram]

I am (probably) not asexual myself, but I am a male virgin at the age of 28, and until very recently, I have never been in a relationship – mainly because I am very shy and not very good at flirting.

 

Half a year ago I met someone on-line who did not have relationship experience, either.  Unlike many others, she seemed genuinely interested in me, and my cautious behavior did not make her put me in the friendzone right away.

 

Only after a few dates, I initiated some cuddling.  She did not really reciprocate, but I thought it was normal because men have to make the first move, and at least she seemed flattered.  Meeting was not always easy because we live in different cities, but each time, we went a little step further.

 

Eventually, she came to visit me in my apartment, and in the evening we cuddled in my bed.  Even though we kissed, it did not really feel sexual, and all physical contact stayed above the belt (or more like above the shoulder, to be exact).  Again, I did not question the fact that had to initiate everything because I thought it was my job, and I really enjoyed that date.

 

She asked me if I agreed we were in a relationship, and I said yes even though it felt a little early, because I assumed we were just a little slow due to lack of experience, and things would be easier after that clarification.  Unfortunately, the opposite happened; she canceled a few dates in a row because she said she was busy, and the fact that she is very slow at responding to text messages began hurting me.

 

Last week-end, we finally met again, and I was really happy to see her.  We went for a walk, but she didn't seem to enjoy holding hands or cuddling in public; she said she was too nervous in front of other people.  We spent the night at her place, and I hoped we could go a little further than last time – I didn't expect we would have sex, but some slightly more intimate cuddling and touching would have been nice, and I was hoping we might get at least a tiny bit sexual.

 

Alas, none of that happened.  Before we did cuddle, she hesitated a lot, and she did not seem enthusiastic about it.  I asked her what was wrong, and the said: “Well, I'm not that cuddly, you know...” I asked: “Is it because you're feeling too shy to initiate, or do you just not enjoy it?” – “Little bit of both, I guess.”

 

I asked her if she had a different idea, and she suggested spooning.  I was a bit surprised because it involved me touching her breasts a little while I was the “big spoon”, but she seemed OK with it.  The problem was that again, she was just lying there not doing anything.  After a while, I suggested turning around such that I would get the little spoon's benefit of being held tight, but her hand felt very limp around my chest, and soon after that, she said she was tired and wanted to sleep.

 

Up to now, I have always thought that she might just be really shy, but I am no longer sure if that explains it.  Might her avoidance of physical contact be due to asexuality?  If so, how do I ask her about that?  I feel like our relationship is really suffering from this.

[swirl_of_blue]

There's only one thing you can do: ask her. It could be nervousness due to not having been in a relationship before or it could be that she doesn't enjoy intimacy and closeness the same way many people do. You really can't communicate "too much", especially if you might both be feeling a bit unsure due to your lack of experience.

[Spectrogram]

5 minutes ago, swirl_of_blue said:

There's only one thing you can do: ask her. It could be nervousness due to not having been in a relationship before or it could be that she doesn't enjoy intimacy and closeness the same way many people do. You really can't communicate "too much", especially if you might both be feeling a bit unsure due to your lack of experience.

How exactly should I ask?  I'm not sure if she knows the term “asexuality”, or if she wants to talk that openly about it.

 

What confuses me is that she lets me touch her, but she never really touches me.  Maybe she's just tolerating my approaches?  Is a “relationship without touching” a thing for asexual people?

[swirl_of_blue]

Ask her what she likes, and what she doesn't like. You don't have to use any labels, just communicate to her that you have noticed she doesn't seem to enjoy intimacy the same way you do. If you'd like her to initiate more, tell her just that. She could be just shy, especially if she's very conservative (with all the "men take charge and women are passive" stereotypes about intimacy). It can be very exhausting to be the one who always has to initiate everything in a relationship (especially if you don't find it easy), and here I am very much speaking from experience! So talk, talk, talk. What you like, what she likes, what you dislike, what she dislikes, what makes either of you nervous, what makes either of you excited and so on.

 

9 minutes ago, Spectrogram said:

Is a “relationship without touching” a thing for asexual people?

It depends on the person. Some like intimacy as much as anyone, with kissing and cuddling and making out but just no sex. Some are very touch-averse and don't like to even hold hands. Many are somewhere in between these two. And again, whether your gf is ace or not, you won't know unless you ask her.

[Spectrogram]

OK, I will think of a way to talk about it – I'm not really comfortable with the topic of physical contact myself, you know...  On the other hand, I already ask her if it's OK whenever I touch her, and except for one time, she has always said “yes”.  (When she said “no”, I stopped immediately, of course.)

 

Although I admit that I'm a bit curious, I don't think I would need sex in a relationship; but I do need some cuddling to feel attached to someone.

[banoffeepie]

She might be. She also might have had some shocking trauma in her past, such that touch reminds her of it. Not everyone wants to, or can, talk about stuff like that.

Like everyone says ask ... but she has a right to clam up if it upsets her.

[Spectrogram]

8 hours ago, banoffeepie said:

She might be. She also might have had some shocking trauma in her past, such that touch reminds her of it.

I really hope that's not the case, but I've had that idea, too.

 

When we first met, I hugged her to say hello, and she seemed to be overwhelmed by that already (it's got better in the meantime).  She also mentioned that she does not even like hugging friends.

 

Granted, I do not like hugging friends and family, either, because it does feel sexual to me; I have suspected Asperger's and I think that touching just feels a lot more intense to me than it feels to others.  Maybe she is similar.

[swirl_of_blue]

1 minute ago, Spectrogram said:

Granted, I do not like hugging friends and family, either, because it does feel sexual to me; I have suspected Asperger's and I think that touching just feels a lot more intense to me than it feels to others.  Maybe she is similar.

That's a good point: if you have a reason to suspect she might be an Aspie there are things you have to consider. I have Asperger's myself and have to date only dated other Aspies. I have also woved to never do that again, as I've noticed that for me in an aspie-aspie relationship having good communication is just too difficult to make anything worth the while. I would also be halfway to panic if someone I've never met face to face before hugged me! I also don't hug friends unless they are very close, there are probably less than ten people in my life that I feel it's okay to hug in "normal" circumstances.

 

I think it would really do your relationship a lot of good if you were able to talk about how touching feels to you. You don't need to use any labels, about asexuality or Aspergers or anything. But you need to be on the same page about things and know what the other likes. If you just keep on assuming, you might make big missteps either advancing too quickly or too slowly!

[Spectrogram]

42 minutes ago, swirl_of_blue said:

That's a good point: if you have a reason to suspect she might be an Aspie there are things you have to consider.

I'm not quite sure...  She has way more friends than Aspies usually have.  On the other hand, they say that female Aspies often have quite good social skills.

 

48 minutes ago, swirl_of_blue said:

I also don't hug friends unless they are very close, there are probably less than ten people in my life that I feel it's okay to hug in "normal" circumstances.

For me it's more like 2 people right now, but I make sure to hug someone on a date in order to fulfill the social convention.

[HonoraryJedi]

I second @swirl_of_blue for the most part. Communicate with her.

 

There is a lot of guesswork here, but really, some strangers on the internet cannot tell if this woman, is ace, or traumatised or has asperger from this information. She might like to wait longer, she might be ace, you might not be a good fit, she might be uncomfortable but you need to get your answers from her, not us. I don't mean asking her directly if she's ace, or has trauma, that seems weird to me, but just, what she thinks about sex, and what kind of touching would actually like. Just to see if you two are compatible. You already know she is not a cuddling person, so you do get answers when you ask.

[Spectrogram]

I guess that's what I will need to do.  I just fear that asking her too directly might put a lot of pressure on her, plus we're both probably really uncomfortable talking about sexuality.

 

Whether she likes cuddling has been inconclusive; last time she said she didn't like it that much, but earlier she said she liked it, and I don't know what's true.  Maybe she said she liked it because she didn't want to disappoint me, or she said she didn't like it because she was overwhelmed by the situation.

[HonoraryJedi]

I don't think speaking of it directly will put more pressure than continuing to initiation physical contact that she's not interested in. I can only speak from my own perspective, but I would not think "What is your opinion on ___?" would be pressuring in a way that someone touching me without me expressed permission (and without reciprocation) would be. I get that talking about it is awkward, but I honestly think it is the only reasonable thing to do. Especially since you are already unsynchronised. You do have (silent) expectations she is not meeting and she has shown signs of discomfort. I don't think the two of you are going to do this with hinting and guessing, you need to use language.

[Spectrogram]

OK, I talked to her.  It was obvious that we were both really uncomfortable talking about sexuality, but at least we managed to talk a little about physical contact in general.  She said that she does enjoy it, but she needs some time to accommodate to it, and her lack of enthusiasm or initiative is not supposed to be understood as rejection.

 

I tried to address (a)sexuality implicitly by asking if she could imagine going further, and she said yes, although she would again need more time.  While this made me a little optimistic, I am not sure how much more time she will need, considering that out first date was 5 months ago...

 

My suggestion was that next time we meet, I will leave things a little more to her, such that she can try out what she likes.

[Spectrogram]

Thinking about it, the Asperger hypothesis is not completely unreasonable; she is not only uncomfortable with touching, but also with eye contact, and apart from being shy, she does sometimes do or say slightly socially inappropriate things.  On the other hand, she really has a lot of friends.

[Telecaster68]

Specto

 

I fairly sure my wife  has some strong Aspy characteristics, and they manifest very differently in women than men. Some googling the work of Maxine Aston and Tony Attwood might help you find out more.

[Spectrogram]

3 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Specto

 

I fairly sure my wife  has some strong Aspy characteristics, and they manifest very differently in women than men. Some googling the work of Maxine Aston and Tony Attwood might help you find out more.

Yes, I know.  It's just that I have never heard of an Aspie with such a large number of friends.  Also, she really likes traveling.  On the other hand, her self-confidence is really bad, and she has never had a boyfriend before.

[Telecaster68]

You know what they say about 'if you've met one aspy, you've met one aspy'... 

 

My wife has lots of friends, but her interactions are quite scripted and rule based I've noticed. She also needs a lot of time to recharge alone and without speaking too much. 

 

I tend not to use characteristics as a tick list, but try to understand the underlying thought processes and how they could be playing out 

[MrDane]

Communication is important. Remember to say, what you enjoy of what she has all ready done. "I liked it, when you..."

[Spectrogram]

I don't know...  Aspie or not, I'm getting the impression that she just does not care.  Maybe I should not care so much any more, either.

[Spectrogram]

Nevermind, we broke up...