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We should have talked about your childhood. *Trigger warning: Sexual abuse and trauma*


AthenaFay

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This is going to be a tough one. I was reading an article ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-41469511 ) in the news today about a woman speaking out about her asexuality. Over 2 years having since ended my longest relationship of 7 years with a man who turned out to be asexual and aromantic, I'm still finding myself negatively affected even by articles like this in how much it brings back painful memories.

 

I remember the happy glow of self-discovery my partner experienced when he found that there was even a word for what he was. Not experiencing any desire for sexual or romantic connection, the true extent of distance between us was emphasized by his feeling of liberation and happiness in his discovery. My own feelings didn't seem to exist, because they never really did for him, aside from the negatives: fear, pressure, pain, and annoyance of feeling pressured to do strange, undesirable things that he never wanted to do in the first place that he finally felt released from. 

 

After then having had so many conversations with him night after night, day after day, hours upon hours, and having done a lot of my own research on asexuality, the firm conclusion was this:

 

"Respect their sexuality and their orientation. Stay the Hell away from pressuring them into ANYTHING they don't want to do. You have unwittingly already pressured them into things they never wanted to do in the past, so STOP NOW, now that you know the truth. If you love them, and you want to be with them, then you should find other ways to be close and find other ways to feel satisfied. If you can't be content with the amount of physical and emotional closeness they can give to you, then you need to break up". 

 

This was framed as the only decent option, so we mutually decided that breaking up was the best thing to do, and it was. 

 

The thing is, I had known for a very long time that my partner had come from an abusive background. The first time he told me about his childhood, I cried so hard and felt so much anger toward the people who were supposed to be taking care of him. His mother was a prostitute who had sex with clients under the same roof as her children, (from their birth, all the way through to their teens and into adulthood), allowing them to hear all kinds of strange things throughout their lives, as their mother neglected them as she tended to clients. I don't want to go into too much detail here, but his upbringing was riddled with abuse, neglect, and a seriously unhealthy introduction toward sex, love, and what those things meant. 

 

It seemed absolutely, ridiculously, blindingly obvious (to me, at least), that his sexuality was a direct and crystal clear result of past abuse and trauma.

 

I don't think I could ever have brought myself to say this to him, and madly, it didn't even seem like territory I should dare trespass. By then, I had read so much on "ace pride", so much talk on staying away from interfering with his sexuality, and I'd read so much on how evil and horrible I would be if I dared pressure him into anything, even if it meant that he could experience sex and love as positive things, because how dare I? You are taught that you don't mess with that, and bringing up past abuse seems too close to pressuring. It is what it is, so respect it, accept it, or GTFO. Amidst the excitement my partner felt at his "discovery", it didn't feel right to slam down the breaks and say "Hey... Um, are you sure you don't hate sex because you were abused? I mean, can you even call what you feel a 'sexuality'?" 

 

It's taken me years to be open about this, but really, no wonder he hated sex and was at odds with love. With an upbringing like his, who the Hell wouldn't be? Either way, he got to have his feelings immediately validated and framed as an "orientation", as a "sexuality", no further probing, no more questions asked, because you wouldn't do that to anyone else of any other orientation, so why this? And so, after the coming out experience, I was the one the spotlight went onto. I was the one who needed to make the most changes, alterations, compromises and concessions.

 

To be utterly blunt, I was the one whose completely healthy, functioning sexuality had to change and become more like the broken sexuality of someone who had been abused, because I was with someone who had an ill-to-non-functioning sexuality - because I was with an asexual.

 

How is this right? How does this fly by the wayside so often? Why isn't this talked about more? 

 

There was so much damned pressure on me to find any way I could to tamper with my healthy sexuality, but where the Hell was the pressure (to get help and therapy they most likely actually need) on the person with the sexuality which came about as a result of abuse and trauma? Why did I only get pressure to change myself

Trying to squish my healthy sexuality into the same box that an unhealthy one came from had consequences for the health of not only my sexuality, but also my self-esteem and mental health, and I know I'm not alone. I know there are people here who are going through what I went through, and driving themselves crazy in the process of trying to essentially become less healthy than they were before on the off-chance that they might save their relationship. 

 

If they don't want to kiss with tongues anymore, then you need to find some other way to feel good. If they don't want penetrative sex anymore, then you shouldn't want penetrative sex from them anymore. Or if you still do want it that much, then maybe you should just masturbate, imagine it, and be content with that. You don't ask why, you just accept them, be there for them. Why is the onus of responsibility and change on the person who possesses the healthy sexuality, rather than the one whose sexuality is steeped in abuse, trauma, and issues which surely need to be resolved?

 

I'm by no means declaring aro-ace as a sexuality (or non-sexuality) which can never be legitimate, or is always as a result of past abuse or trauma, nor am I saying that no asexual or aromantic with a past history of abuse or trauma which directly correlate with their sexuality ever sort their issues out.  This post is my own experience, but one I'm so sure is widely shared and experienced. The amount of times I've seen people with healthy, well-functioning, well-developed sexualities here, who are deeply grieving the loss of sex and love; people who are nothing short of utterly heartbroken and yet living day-to-day in a suspended state of having and not-having on account of being strung out in these continued, incompatible relationships whereby their one goal is to drown out, suffocate, or kill altogether, things which they could freely and happily share with someone with the same drive, is heartbreaking.

 

When someone with a healthy sexuality and drive to be intimate with someone else massively decreases, we call that a dysfunction, and partners are permitted to feel loss, anger, and misery, and the partner with the dysfunction is encouraged to seek medical help or therapy; but if you're someone who never felt it to begin with, you have an "orientation", regardless of any traumatic past events got you there in the first place. If someone has been through abuse and trauma, I think they need professional help, rather than to have the side-effects and symptoms spoken of as though they're anywhere near as being in the same camp as any other sexual orientation arrived at via a healthy development. 

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I was the one who needed to make the most changes, alterations, compromises and concessions. I was the one whose completely healthy, functioning sexuality had to change and become more like the broken sexuality of someone who had been abused, because I was with someone who had an ill-to-non-functioning sexuality. How is this right? How does this fly by the wayside so often? Why isn't this talked about more? There was so much pressure on me to tamper with my healthy sexuality, but where the Hell was there no pressure (to get help and therapy they likely need) on the person with the sexuality which came about as a result of abuse and trauma? Why did I only get pressure to change myself?

Therapy only really works if the person actually wants it.  Do you feel like that was ever true for your ex?  I just say this because, as someone who got pushed into therapy for depression before they were actually ready to receive it, it was just a waste of my time, a waste of their time, a waste of our money, and became just one more thing to dread every week.  Absolutely nothing positive to come out of it.

 

The reason this problem exists and seemingly gave you the short end of the stick is because, to put it simply, it takes two to tango, and the *right* for someone to not have sex will always win out over the *privilege* for someone to have sex.  It's basically like a Boolean AND statement; if you are game for sex but the other person is not, the code better return a FALSE or else you've got a potential violation of human rights on your hands.

 

His reasoning for being the way he was honestly doesn't matter in the end, because he still had every right to be that way.  Likewise, you had every right to decide you were ultimately discontent, and leave.

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2 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

Therapy only really works if the person actually wants it.  Do you feel like that was ever true for your ex?  I just say this because, as someone who got pushed into therapy for depression before they were actually ready to receive it, it was just a waste of my time, a waste of their time, a waste of our money, and became just one more thing to dread every week.  Absolutely nothing positive to come out of it.

 

The reason this problem exists and seemingly gave you the short end of the stick is because, to put it simply, it takes two to tango, and the *right* for someone to not have sex will always win out over the *privilege* for someone to have sex.  It's basically like a Boolean AND statement; if you are game for sex but the other person is not, the code better return a FALSE or else you've got a potential violation of human rights on your hands.

 

His reasoning for being the way he was honestly doesn't matter in the end, because he still had every right to be that way.  Likewise, you had every right to decide you were ultimately discontent, and leave.

He didn't want therapy, but I got pressured into trying to adapt to something which came about as a direct result of his not wanting therapy. I think that's unfair. It seems like in these specific cases, the asexual has unreasonable demands for the sexual, (to essentially become asexual and repress their sexuality), while the sexual has reasonable expectations for the asexual (to get therapy). 

 

Googling "asexuality" and "abuse" turns up an enormous amount of results which cover the amount of asexuals who are asexual because of, or likely because of, or maybe in some way related to, past trauma, and I wonder how many partners of these asexuals are secretly hoping and praying for a day they just finally go and get the therapy they need, rather than continuously pushing it as an orientation, which may not even be present once the underlying issues are resolved.

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Again, expecting someone else to just "get therapy" isn't a useful expectation.  They have to want it in order for it to do any good, which can potentially take years, they might need a good reason, or it might just not ever happen.  Finding a compatible therapist (in terms of personality, acceptance, and what kinds of medical coverage they take) is a chore and a half too.  You're oversimplifying the issue.

 

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He didn't want therapy, but I got pressured into trying to adapt to something which came about as a direct result of his not wanting therapy.

Who pressured this, and how exactly?

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1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

Again, expecting someone else to just "get therapy" isn't a useful expectation.  They have to want it in order for it to do any good, which can potentially take years, they might need a good reason, or it might just not ever happen.  Finding a compatible therapist (in terms of personality, acceptance, and what kinds of medical coverage they take) is a chore and a half too.  You're oversimplifying the issue.

 

Who pressured this, and how exactly?

Expecting a sexual to "just adapt" to the sexuality of an asexual isn't useful, either.

 

It isn't like the expectation of therapy, either, being as in many cases, it's outright impossible, but I still see this getting pushed way, way, way more over ever expecting an asexual to resolve any past issues that they have. Maybe I've just not seen the right posts or threads, but either way, the sole purpose of my post is to highlight this and get it out there.

I've never seen anyone else speak about this before, and I could have done with it when I was struggling, myself. 

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Expecting a sexual to "just adapt" to the sexuality of an asexual isn't useful, either.

Is that really what he was doing, though?  Or was that the inference you made by his inaction?

 

Honest questions.

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Nobody is telling sexuals to adapt but when it isn't working decisions have to be taken.

 

Plenty of aces have been through the mighty all resolving therapy and they can tell you that the wonderpill doesn't exist. In the case of your ex it's not even a "let's try" if he identifies as aro ace. It's simple. Aro aces should not date, ever and never, sexuals as this is one big mismatch and a completely dead end.

 

We aro aces have zero interest in romance or sex, there's nothing for us in that stuff. I can compromise, simulate, meaning blantantly lying to someone and myself, but there's truly zero emotion or interrest on my side. There's nothing except one big emptyness while a possible partner expects a big <3.

 

It's a misery and a shame that so many of you have to go through this "hell". Hopefully one day asexuality will be known enough to avoid such mismatches. :cake:

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Telecaster68
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How is this right? How does this fly by the wayside so often? Why isn't this talked about more?

 

Politics. Regardless of causes, your husband is effectively asexual, but as soon as anyone starts speculating about causes, it opens up the ‘cure the dysfunction’ can of worms, and - cardinal crime on AVEN - errs towards invalidating people’s sexuality.

 

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Why is the onus of responsibility and change on the person who possesses the healthy sexuality, rather than the one whose sexuality is steeped in abuse, trauma, and issues which surely need to be resolved?

Because the underlying precept of AVEN and asexuality as a political movement is that it’s not an issue to be resolved. It’s an orientation.

 

But the truth is that dysfunctional sexuals are bound to be more common than asexuals, and the ‘don’t go there’ mentality, which can protect some very, very fragile people, but can also be a licence for some people to entirely outsource wider relationship issues to the other partner. The people who suffer in this (as with any relationship issue) are their partners; and in this case, as you say, any attempt to bring up potential solutions for the relationship is met with a blanket refusal to engage with the issue, because - da-da! - it’s not an issue, it’s an orientation.

 

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Nobody is telling sexuals to adapt but when it isn't working decisions have to be taken.

Nobody's saying it out loud, but de facto, if you want to stay in the relationship, you have to adapt. Big time. Asexuals simply don't have to. They just have to keep saying 'no', and since almost no sexuals are rapists, job done.

 

And no, you're not alone.

 

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Right, but all rapists are sexuals.

 

I love that trauma, abuse, poor childhood, son or daughter because mom was a prostitute. Holy Christ (matter of speaking as I'm a non believer) there have to be a billion defunctional sexuals out there, lucky me they clearly do not indentify as aro ace. I have known plenty of boys and gals during my life-time that did have plenty of issues during their childhood and puberty and later on, including physical and sexual abuse (friend raped his own sister, imagine) and none of them turned out are ace, none I know of.

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Telecaster68
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all rapists are sexuals.

What's your point?

 

You're more intelligent than that post, Nidwin. Nobody's saying asexuality is a one to one causal relationship with a traumatic childhood. 'I know some asexuals who weren't traumatised so someone not wanting sex can't be anything do with childhood trauma' is an asinine non-argument.

 

But it is pretty well established that traumatic childhoods generally make people dysfunctional in some way, particularly around relationships.

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I'm not actually sure what OP is trying to get at... isn't it fairly common to suggest that any lack of sexuality usually stems from trauma, mental illness, hormones, etc. and isn't this part of the problem? 

 

Because while mental health and trauma can play a part in lack of libido and this can overlap with asexuality, surely it's more dangerous to suggest that it is something that might cured? If awareness of asexuality is reduced in this way, many unhappy asexuals/sexuals might not realise what is going on and might stay in dysfunctional mixed relationships in the hopes that the ace partner might not actually be asexual and might eventually be cured through therapy or some other treatment.

 

In any case, even if the 'asexual' in this scenario was actually just a low-libido sexual with trauma, and especially if they aren't willing to go for therapy, there is the high possibility that the couple may well never be sexually compatible anyway and instead of suffering in the relationship and trying to treat the sexual issue, it might be better to simply acknowledge the inability to compromise and break up anyway... 

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Telecaster68
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isn't it fairly common to suggest that any lack of sexuality usually stems from trauma, mental illness, hormones, etc. and isn't this part of the problem? 

It is, outside AVEN. But on AVEN...

 

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while mental health and trauma can play a part in lack of libido and this can overlap with asexuality, surely it's more dangerous to suggest that it is something that might cured?

... that means it hardly gets discussed. The trouble is...

 

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If awareness of asexuality is reduced in this way, many unhappy asexuals/sexuals might not realise what is going on and might stay in dysfunctional mixed relationships in the hopes that the ace partner might not actually be asexual and might eventually be cured through therapy or some other treatment.

... is more often the other way round. One partner is sexually dysfunctional and seizing on the label 'asexual' closes down any discussion or potential need for them to address it. That's the point @AthenaFay is making.

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Human sexuality is a complex topic. I am not offended by the idea that past abuse/trauma could cause someone to identify more strongly with asexuality. A significant portion of homosexual individuals have sexual abuse past where someone of the same sex took advantage of them. It cause many to feel conflicted by their sexuality. Was I born homosexual or did that experience make me? I had an assignment where I had to ask two homosexual individuals( one was my sister and the other, a friend) if they thought they were born homosexual. My sister said she was born and knew since childhood, the other thought he was made because of "early same sex experiences and living in a very feminine household". I was surprised by my friend's answer. I would have never imagined he thought he wasn't born this way to begin with, but who am I to say he was or wasn't? 

 

Now if trauma might be the cause of their situation, should you, a love one, encourage them to seek professional help even if that means questioning their sexuality? I say yes, but there is a right way and a wrong way to go by it. Telling them straight up that they aren't asexual but damaged ( not saying you would say it this way, just being hypothetical) and need psychological help isn't the way to go. Trying to constantly pressure them into it is also wrong. I think a better way to go is by introducing the topic of therapy to confront the trauma of the past, and discuss the possible effects it may have had on them. If they still have no interest in it, respect it. People who are happy about discovering asexuality, would probably be the most resistant. As painful as it was to let go a 7 year relationship, it was definitely for the best. He would have definitely been more resistant if you brought up the topic. Whose to say, even if he was open to help, that it would have helped your relationship?

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Telecaster68
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If they still have no interest in it, respect it.

I understand that, completely. I've had therapy and you do need to be ready for it.

 

But it's very, very hard as the sexual partner to see that as anything other than 'I know you're suffering and I could do something that could help, potentially, but I'm just not going to. Deal with it.'

 

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I am not offended by the idea that past abuse/trauma could cause someone to identify more strongly with asexuality.

I'm sure not, but there are plenty on AVEN who take instant umbrage at the very idea of discussing possible causes, or even that asexuality might have a cause in some cases.

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2 hours ago, Nidwin said:

Right, but all rapists are sexuals.

 

I love that trauma, abuse, poor childhood, son or daughter because mom was a prostitute. Holy Christ (matter of speaking as I'm a non believer) there have to be a billion defunctional sexuals out there, lucky me they clearly do not indentify as aro ace. I have known plenty of boys and gals during my life-time that did have plenty of issues during their childhood and puberty and later on, including physical and sexual abuse (friend raped his own sister, imagine) and none of them turned out are ace, none I know of.

No! But the act of raping/abuse is a sexual act, though it is usually more about power than about sexual release. The violation of another person is just as possible for an asexual. Perhaps getting triggered to do the nasty deed is more happening with sexuals, and the aces are still only 1%. I only know one asexual irl. 

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I'm still confused though - while I understand the negative feelings involved here, isn't the cause of asexuality/low libido more or less irrelevant in the context of a mixed relationship? 

 

If the low libido / "ace" partner is seizing on the word "asexual" and rejecting any offer of communication or therapy, isn't that a sign that the relationship should end regardless? If someone is using the label as an excuse to completely block out their partner's needs, there really isn't much that can save the relationship. 

 

Even if asexuality might have roots in past abuse or trauma for the 'ace' partner in question, if they have already rejected that idea or any form of compromise, then they either really are asexual and cannot compromise or they really aren't ready for therapy, especially since they would rather prioritize their newfound label than the person they claim to love and care about.

 

Also -- people who only know me as a lesbian have suggested that I might not be attracted to men because I've had bad experiences with them. Even if this were true in my case, should we be advocating that lesbians who have had bad relationships with men get treatment for trauma in the off-chance that it caused their lesbianism? I still think this is a little bit iffy.

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5 hours ago, AthenaFay said:

There was so much damned pressure on me to find any way I could to tamper with my healthy sexuality, but where the Hell was the pressure (to get help and therapy they most likely actually need) on the person with the sexuality which came about as a result of abuse and trauma? Why did I only get pressure to change myself?

I daresay: communities are biased. Go to a forum for sexual people, and they will tell you the one who doesn't want sex clearly needs help and treatment, with the possible odd voice in the mix that knows about asexuality. Go to a forum for asexual people, and they will tell you that the one who doesn't want sex clearly needs to be respected and not pressured, with the possible odd voice in the mix that suspects trauma as a treatable cause. I'd expect that from both sides, you get the advice to break up if it doesn't work out. How hard you try is up to you, eventually. From your post, I take it that you tried very hard, and couldn't make it work after all.

 

5 hours ago, AthenaFay said:

so we mutually decided that breaking up was the best thing to do, and it was.

Yes, apparently it was. And with the relationship and your own, unmet needs out of the way, weren't you in a better position to provide support and advice as a friend? To suggest help and therapy as a way to deal with past trauma, rather than as a way to fix sexuality?

 

I'm sorry you had to go through this. And I totally agree that AVEN is biased. But to some degree, that's the point of such communities. They have to be biased, because they were created as a place for some people, in this case asexuals, to feel accepted and among friends, not pressured to get themselves fixed.

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Telecaster68
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isn't the cause of asexuality/low libido more or less irrelevant in the context of a mixed relationship? 

The reverse, I'd say. If it's down the line asexuality, then game over. If it's to do with trauma, then maybe, maybe, it can be worked on for everyone's benefit.

 

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If someone is using the label as an excuse to completely block out their partner's needs, there really isn't much that can save the relationship.

Could be. Or it could be that they're trying their best to be a good partner, but the effects of the trauma etc. are overwhelming and scary to deal with, and sometimes the support (and even a little push, or a more than a little push...) can be the decisive element in getting them to seek help - again, for everyone's benefit. Anxiet can be paralysingly scary, depression can make people overwhelmed by apathy, and in that situation, I'd say a caring partner would be pushing for them to get help, just as they'd suggest a doctor for any other illness.

 

But if they're actually asexual as full orientation, then a partner pushing for therapy is going to come across as pushy and controlling, and it maybe that in any case, the non-sexual partner is functioning perfectly well in all other ways. It's complicated.

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Guest Deus Ex Infinity

I'd always give a warning and uodate on my childhood before moving on to close physical  or mental  contact with  someone else first,  since there are a lot of triggers and hidden traps that may cause worse reactions on my side but can't be seen or known before hand from the outside.

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6 hours ago, AthenaFay said:

He didn't want therapy, but I got pressured into trying to adapt to something which came about as a direct result of his not wanting therapy. I think that's unfair.

AthenaFay. I actually enjoyed hearing your perspective and I'm sorry you are going through a rough time. I may be wrong, but from what I read,and it sounds like your partner was being assertive with what he needs and who he believes himself to be. Just because he says what he needs, it doesn't mean he is saying you now have to deal with this alone or you have to change your sexuality to meet his. He said something and now you get to choose what you want to do about it. You choose whether you want to leave or adapt. There is nothing wrong with saying what you need as well on your side. It should be allowed for both of you to state what you need and how you operate and then both of you should be able to discuss together as a couple and work together to figure out how it's possible to stay together or whether you both should go separate ways. It should be a conversation and choice made together. I understand it must be very frustrating if your partner has stated he is asexual and that he doesn't want certain things and then isn't willing to hear what you need or try to figure out a solution with you. To me, that's messed up and selfish, but him simply expressing himself and his needs should be allowed. He can't make you do something or feel a certain way. You feel something from his words and then you choose what to do about it. He doesn't control you.

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Mmm. Just because someone had abuse in their past doesn't mean they have to have an unhealthy relationship with sex or their asexuality is a result of it. However, it can be and if that's a potential then it's fine to ask - but one has to respect if the person says that isn't it and that's not the route they wanna take. And it is best to be respectful when asking, as us survivors of abuse end up getting so much garbage blamed on that, that it becomes very frustrating (basically, every time someone doesn't like something about you, they can blame it on that and tell you how broken you are and it gets really old). My ex tried to pin my not liking sex on that and I can tell you, that was one of the most anger inducing things he ever did to me... which is saying a lot, given all the other stuff he did during our relationship. 

 



I was molested as a kid and raped as an adult. One could say that's why I don't like sex, but there are lots of factors, most likely. I'm completely fine having it, I just have no desire to do so and so will be doing it 100% for the other person, which is hard to sustain long-term. Even if there was some magical cure pill that made me want sex, I wouldn't really have an interest in it. I'm perfectly happy with the way I am. But, I'm not compatible with most sexuals due to this. However, I also don't ID as asexual, cause I do have some sexual desires - just not sex and it's a fairly recent development.

 

In the end, it's a matter of - are we compatible? And you two were not. Both of your sexualities are healthy, as long as you're both happy with them. Neither of you need changing or "fixing". If he decides at some point he wants therapy, then that is his choice. It sounds more like he is happy with the way he is though. I'm also completely happy with the way I am, no matter what caused or didn't cause it (cause really, we'll never know what causes things) and I'm not interested in trying to change it. And you're happy with the way you are. Which is also great. But, you two don't mesh, obviously. And there is nothing wrong with the decision to break up that you made. 

 

Personally, after experiencing a truly compatible relationship for the first time, I wonder why I put so much effort into other relationships. The difference is just mind blowing. Conflicts? Resolved quickly and through communication. Physical stuff? We both agree on thing we want to do and don't want to do (for the most part, in all the important stuff). We even mostly agree on the temperature control in the room. 

 

So, my opinion on relationships has shifted a bit. And I find how much people change themselves for their partners kind of troubling. Relationships really don't have to be difficult, so why do we cling to ones that are so hard and ultimately make us unhappy because the person isn't compatible with us? Why do we feel the need to change ourselves? It feels like I used to be a kid that was shoving a jigsaw piece that sorta looked like it might be right but ultimately wasn't the right piece into the spot just cause I wanted it to fit. 

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Telecaster68

I agree about the blaming everything you can't deal with about a partner on previous abuse - my wife is, uh, extremely emotionally self contained but I'm not, and she assumes every difference about emotional need is down to my abusive childhood. Some are, some aren't. I think the problem is when the possibility of even considering it is removed from the table, and that's how the asexual label can be used sometimes.

 

And yep, the ease of sorting out shit in a good relationship is mind blowing when you're used to a struggle. Does that mean that as soon as it looks like a struggle, we should cut and run though? Or figure it's worth the work?

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22 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I agree about the blaming everything you can't deal with about a partner on previous abuse - my wife is, uh, extremely emotionally self contained but I'm not, and she assumes every difference about emotional need is down to my abusive childhood. Some are, some aren't. I think the problem is when the possibility of even considering it is removed from the table, and that's how the asexual label can be used sometimes.

The thing is, even if it is a cause for not wanting sex, the person still doesn't want sex. And, if they also are happy that way, why should they entertain the idea of trying to "fix" it? Because their partner isn't happy with it? That's when it should be called incompatibility and their wishes respected. Can be brought up, respectfully, but in the end it's up to each person to figure out what is a trauma induced thing they want to get over and what isn't. I have several things still that I would love to get over and hopefully one day will, but the lack of interest in sex isn't one of those things. I'd discuss it with someone if they brought it up respectfully and, if someone suspects there is a trauma reason for something, it should be a discussion they can have with their partner. It's just important to be careful how to have it. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

 

And yep, the ease of sorting out shit in a good relationship is mind blowing when you're used to a struggle. Does that mean that as soon as it looks like a struggle, we should cut and run though? Or figure it's worth the work?

Mmm. I'd right now say if my relationship begins to struggle, I'd work on it. But, if the issue is obviously one of major incompatibility then we both agree it's a bad idea to try to push on, cause we've both been through hard relationships and neither of us feels it's healthy to do that. Trying to make something that isn't right fit just doesn't work. If our needs are ever that different, I'd rather end it on a good note than sour the whole thing. 

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, Serran said:

The thing is, even if it is a cause for not wanting sex, the person still doesn't want sex. A

That's the point though. If the person wants to work on the issues, they may end up discovering their sexuality and the relationship will improve. Mostly the core issue isn't asexuality (just statistically, since the overwhelming majority of people arent asexual) , and leaping to the assumption that it is and is therefore immutable, means the problem goes unaddressed. The nonsexual partner is fine with this, but to the sexual partner it looks like they're simply opting out of working on the relationship because they're fine thankyou, and they're insufficiently bothered by their partner's unhappiness.

 

So all the work to keep the relationship going defaults to the sexual, in terms of stifling their own needs, and that's just as much work as it would be for the nonsexual to address their issues. However the sexual person *is* bothered enough to do it, so it feels like they care about both the relationship and their partner more. That's where distancing and resentment builds.

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I've never seen anyone here on AVEN telling sexual partners that they to stay in an unhappy relationship if they don't want to be in it, usually people are coming here looking for advice because they don't want to break up and the responses tend to suggest coming to a compromise both people are comfortable with, carefully considering an open relationship, or ending it. A few people here don't think sexuals and asexuals should even date and suggest breaking up anyway. I have seen some suggest the idea therapy for the ace partner if they want to be able to have sex with their partner but have issues with intimacy. I understand it must be frustrating to feel like the asexual partner doesn't have to compromise as much, but you shouldn't pressure someone into things they don't want or feel comfortable with, even if you feel their sexuality is "dysfunctional" or "unhealthy". The only way to really make it fair is to remember that the sexual partner shouldn't be pressured into a compromise they don't want or feel comfortable with either.

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The sexual partner is already pressured... Not into a compromise, but into totally denying their needs.

 

And yes the simplistic answer is 'leave'. And the simplistic response to the nonsexual partner is 'have sex'. Both logical and neither at all easy.

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41 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

That's the point though. If the person wants to work on the issues, they may end up discovering their sexuality and the relationship will improve. Mostly the core issue isn't asexuality (just statistically, since the overwhelming majority of people arent asexual) , and leaping to the assumption that it is and is therefore immutable, means the problem goes unaddressed. The nonsexual partner is fine with this, but to the sexual partner it looks like they're simply opting out of working on the relationship because they're fine thankyou, and they're insufficiently bothered by their partner's unhappiness.

 

So all the work to keep the relationship going defaults to the sexual, in terms of stifling their own needs, and that's just as much work as it would be for the nonsexual to address their issues. However the sexual person *is* bothered enough to do it, so it feels like they care about both the relationship and their partner more. That's where distancing and resentment builds.

You could say that about a lot of things...

 

I don't like going out to parties, which is largely due to social anxiety and yeah, I could take medications or do therapy and maybe if I did, I might like parties. And, if I was a party/club goer, I might not have broken up with my first boyfriend, cause that was what ended our relationship (he wanted someone he could share that with). But, why, if I am happy with who I am and who I am just doesn't like something, should I try medications/therapies to change it, just because someone else wants me to be different and there is a possibility I could make myself different? Why should a romantic relationship mean you're obligated to change to make the other person happy? 

 

A healthier relationship would be where neither party has to change significantly in order for it to work. That's why I think compatibility is very important and it's fine to admit when there is a large incompatibility issue and separate, rather than forcing one or the other to change a significant part of who they are, if they don't want to. 

 

And, resentment can easily build if you're pushed to be different cause who you are isn't enough for your partner, as much as not getting your needs met can cause it. But, if you're at a point you're becoming resentful of your partner cause they're different from you, it's probably time to examine the relationship and figure out if this is a permanent issue or a temporary issue you can work through. If permanent due to differing needs, why stay and just get more and more resentful of them? 

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Oh come on, not liking parties is a whole different level to sex.

 

But for the rest, yes, in theory, but junking a relationship (especially after years of marriage) is never the straightforward thing some people seem to think.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Oh come on, not liking parties is a whole different level to sex.

 

Is it, considering it was the deal breaker in my previous relationship, because he spends every night at a club / bar / party and that lifestyle isn't one we could share? Despite him being sexual, he only wanted it about once every two weeks. The loss of intimacy was in not being able to share his chosen lifestyle with me. What makes sex somehow a magical incompatibility that is above every other one that can end a relationship? 

 

1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

 

But for the rest, yes, in theory, but junking a relationship (especially after years of marriage) is never the straightforward thing some people seem to think.

 

 

I left my marriage after 10 years living together. Granted, it took years of knowing it should have ended before I actually did it. But, it was only daunting in my head. Once I actually did it, it was very straight forward and easy. And, honestly, I should have done it years ago. He now has a sexual girlfriend who lives with him. I now have a partner that agrees sex should never be part of our relationship. Neither of us are stuck miserable trying to force each other to fit some box that neither of us can get into. 

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For most sexuals, the lack of sex would have about the same effect as your partner constantly being out, and absolutely I wouldn't write it off without trying to fix it, or assume it was just a given. Either it was thoughtlessness, or he had some deep-seated need to party as a result of some childhood need to be widely socially accepted without too much intimacy...  or something. A1There's a good chance it could be tackled via therapy, if he wanted. And if he didn't want to, I'd take that as a strong signal the relationship was way less important than partying, and way less important than your feelings.

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