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Valentine18

Anyone in open relationships? Help!

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roland.o
On 10/3/2017 at 11:28 PM, Valentine18 said:

Every night I tell myself I'm going to start this conversation, and every night I chicken out.

Just wondering whether the night is a good time for this kind of conversation. You're both tired, at least one wants to go to sleep, and then you would start a conversation about something serious that puts the whole relationship at risk? Better bring it up when both are rested.

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ConorOberst

Hmm - just because he doesn't want sex doesn't mean he won't be hurt if you have sex with someone else - his ego will still get shattered!  That's the curse us asexuals live with - we don't want sex but it crushes us to think of our partner enjoying sex with someone else.

 

If you don't mind though - why do you want to have sex?  Is it really that much of a need that you can't go without it?

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MrDane
On 26/10/2017 at 6:23 AM, ConorOberst said:

Hmm - just because he doesn't want sex doesn't mean he won't be hurt if you have sex with someone else - his ego will still get shattered!  That's the curse us asexuals live with - we don't want sex but it crushes us to think of our partner enjoying sex with someone else.

 

If you don't mind though - why do you want to have sex?  Is it really that much of a need that you can't go without it?

If everything else in my life and relationship is absolutely great, everything but sex, then I would still need/want sex. It is like a depression building up, slowly. Step by step, clouding my mind, filling me up, making it hard. Hard to see all the good stuff. Kind of like being really, really tired, and all you need is to close your eyes for a moment. It doesnt go away, until you get your rest. 

 

I am prepared to go miles and miles to keep the good stuff and as I am both comitted and in love and monogamous, I want to stay. But accepting no sex is not an option, since no sex is accepting a depression. Occasional, starfishing sex or un-enthustiatic handjobs, will keep the depression away or make it milder. When I am depressed, I am no good to me nor to anyone else. 

 

Having sex with someone else is more of a possibility than no sex. Yes, there is a risk of many things, someone getting hurt, diseases, breaking up, losing the love, finding new love...

no sex is not a risk. It is a certain way to depression. 

 

I couldnt and wouldnt go without. 

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Traveler40

Valentine18,

 

We’ve connected before on this topic.  I’ve been off AVEN for a few weeks as I’ve been busy, but I had to add my 2 cents here:  I’m about as conventional and traditional as they come, highly educated and hold a white collar job.  This type of arrangement would typically be “beneath me”, yet after years of spousal imposed celibacy, I decided to open my relationship earlier this year (vs divorce with 2 young kids) with my husband’s consent.

 

The regular, mind-blowing sex and emotional nourishment are worth every single minute, and there hasn’t been much blowback so far.  That’s not to say it hasn’t had some effect though.  It has made my friendship with my husband more “business-like”, and the complete lack of affection between us sticks out like a sore thumb in comparison to the sexually compatible/healthy pairing with my lover.  However, it’s workable.  

 

We keep the communication flow going and both men are generally aware of what’s going on with each other - basically it works really well for us, and is succeeding in keeping with my original vision on how I hoped it would work.

 

I think the success of this obviously hinges on the parties involved and how you structure it.  My husband agreed to one night a week and made some ground rules.  There has been some give/take, but the key is keep talking about it and connecting on it while keeping details light to none.  I care not to hurt my husband.  After many months, it’s become routine for my husband (somewhat of a non-event) and I always come home to him.

 

As mentioned before, the components were communication, setting expectations and parameters, and taking time to find a great match in a long term lover.  I’ve fallen in love with my lover, and that’s what I needed to fully open sexually, yet it’s also non-threatening to my existing relationship.  Win-Win-Win.

 

All the best & take your time to find a great match.

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ConorOberst
17 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Valentine18,

 

We’ve connected before on this topic.  I’ve been off AVEN for a few weeks as I’ve been busy, but I had to add my 2 cents here:  I’m about as conventional and traditional as they come, highly educated and hold a white collar job.  This type of arrangement would typically be “beneath me”, yet after years of spousal imposed celibacy, I decided to open my relationship earlier this year (vs divorce with 2 young kids) with my husband’s consent.

 

The regular, mind-blowing sex and emotional nourishment are worth every single minute, and there hasn’t been much blowback so far.  That’s not to say it hasn’t had some effect though.  It has made my friendship with my husband more “business-like”, and the complete lack of affection between us sticks out like a sore thumb in comparison to the sexually compatible/healthy pairing with my lover.  However, it’s workable.  

 

We keep the communication flow going and both men are generally aware of what’s going on with each other - basically it works really well for us, and is succeeding in keeping with my original vision on how I hoped it would work.

 

I think the success of this obviously hinges on the parties involved and how you structure it.  My husband agreed to one night a week and made some ground rules.  There has been some give/take, but the key is keep talking about it and connecting on it while keeping details light to none.  I care not to hurt my husband.  After many months, it’s become routine for my husband (somewhat of a non-event) and I always come home to him.

 

As mentioned before, the components were communication, setting expectations and parameters, and taking time to find a great match in a long term lover.  I’ve fallen in love with my lover, and that’s what I needed to fully open sexually, yet it’s also non-threatening to my existing relationship.  Win-Win-Win.

 

All the best & take your time to find a great match.

I'm afraid this won't end well for the marriage.  I absolutely don't want to come across as knowing you and your relationship...but I do know men, and we just aren't wired like that.  

 

I really do pray that it works for you.  

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Traveler40

ConorOberst,

 

With all due respect, there are over 7 billion people on this planet, and it makes sense to consider there are many types “that make this world go round” as they say.  I do know my household and the people who live within.  What I can say with relative certainty is that your generalization is not applicable to my husband simply because he’s “male”.  

 

There are asexual men (my husband being one) who understand and respect needs which simply cannot be addressed traditionally in a marriage and realize they may have unconventional solutions.  While I need not convince you, I do seek to provide one family’s real time, well functioning solution.  

 

I too hope it continues to work as it has been, only time will tell of course.

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Telecaster68
9 hours ago, ConorOberst said:

 I do know men, and we just aren't wired like that.  

What, all 3.5 billion of us? 

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NickJCook
On 01/11/2017 at 6:07 AM, Traveler40 said:

ConorOberst,

 

With all due respect, there are over 7 billion people on this planet, and it makes sense to consider there are many types “that make this world go round” as they say.  I do know my household and the people who live within.  What I can say with relative certainty is that your generalization is not applicable to my husband simply because he’s “male”.  

 

There are asexual men (my husband being one) who understand and respect needs which simply cannot be addressed traditionally in a marriage and realize they may have unconventional solutions.  While I need not convince you, I do seek to provide one family’s real time, well functioning solution.  

 

I too hope it continues to work as it has been, only time will tell of course.

My wife (who is asexual) and I have been talking about our own issues quite a bit over the last week and a half, and while we haven’t made any decisions, or are going to rush into anything, she has suggested that she is not opposed to a similar arrangement for us.

 

Obviously we’re all different, but it’s a reassuring to me to hear your story. Thank you for sharing it.

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Ratpick

Maybe the man conoberst is talking about is that other lover. I'm considering the same thing, but I don't want to fall in love with the lover. I need someone who is also married to an asexual so we both know exactly what the situation and inherent limitations are. We all love our life, we all love put wife. We just need a little intimacy, even if its borrowed. 

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FictoVore.
On 01/11/2017 at 11:08 AM, ConorOberst said:

I'm afraid this won't end well for the marriage.  I absolutely don't want to come across as knowing you and your relationship...but I do know men, and we just aren't wired like that.  

 

I really do pray that it works for you.  

Correction: you're not wired like that so if you were in that situation it wouldn't end well for your marriage. 

 

Fortunately for @Traveler40 though you are not her husband or her lover so things may well work out splendidly for her as they seem to be doing so right now. I'm sure sure she'd rather have a happily functioning marriage and sexual fulfillment than be forced to have remained unhappy in a marriage where her needs were not getting met. This way everyone wins. I personally could never do the open marriage thing as I'm 100% monogamous and can't be happy any other way, but other people are less, er, 'naturally monogamous' (?) and so are far better equipped to deal with open marriage situations, some even have an innate preference for that sort of thing. Just because you're not wired that way doesn't mean her husband or lover (whichever you were referring to) is wired the same way as you.

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MrDane

“Open” is ranging from having fuckbuddies,datingprofiles seeking sex, tinder, sex with the hot secretary, going to prostitutes, call girls, swinger clubs, arrangements with other couples who would also like one part to have sex and the other to not,... and then some.

”opening” is talking about a way to put sex into the relationship, because one part is missing it and probably feels bad about it. 

 

My concern would be both practicalities like, risks of disease, risk of falling in love, jealousy, children finding out and cannot understand it, how much money/time is going to be okay spending on it. Would I have to choose between one membership and the other? 

“Where is dad going?”

”He is going to drive for half an hour, to meet some people in a club. He is going to sleep with them, since mommy dont like it!”

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Jay.J

Just wondering how to find the right person, putting up an add doesn't seem that possible, how do you explain you situation to people? I am thinking about opening my relationship but have no idea where to start. It seems to be risky, unsafe, and not possible unless you find someone in similar situation that is attractive to you and shares the same needs and wants, sound very rarely possible. 

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Jay.J

I have been thinking about the same topic for days. I think it is easier for sexual females to find someone after opening a relationship. When it comes to males there will be a lot of setbacks, at least that's how I feel. My question is how do you start this process of opening a relationship?  How to find the right person, how to explain things. It sound very complicated. Am I the only one feeling this way?! I added my story below, in which I shared In a separate topic. 

 

 

 

 

 

"G'day everyone, 

 

 

I don't know where to start but I am writing this hoping to get some help.

I would like to share my story with you. I am a mid 30 straight male. I got married when I was 20 years old, she was 19. I am from a culture where marriage is a strong bond and divorce is a big social problem. I must admit I fall in love with her. From the very beginning, there was something missing in between us. She was calm and quiet, keeping things to herself whereas I was active, warm, passionate and full of energy and adventure. It didn't take long to find out it is a one-way relationship. I wasn't receiving the love and passion I was expressing to her. I soon felt the gap. It took me a while to find out what I want to do in my life. Being from a traditional family has always stopped me to even think about divorce although I felt the need desperately from every stage. There was something missing in my life. There was no love, no intimacy, no passion, I was feeling a huge emotional gap in my life. This was very clear in my day to day life and interactions with opposite sex. As soon as I was close to a female friend, I started to develop emotion and feeling towards her. Many times I kept this romantic attraction hidden but I always questioned myself. I have strong values that consider myself strongly committed to them. What was missing in my life? Trying to buy flowers, giving her pleasant surprises and stick to the common rules of keeping the relationship moving, but it has always been a one-way journey. 

On the positive side, however, she has always been a good company. What I mean is she enjoys outdoor and adventures as I do and is easygoing. She has been accommodating my sexual needs even though there has always been a complaint about me being too active sexually. We have kept ourselves busy with my ambitions and dreams. I wanted to further my education and then migrated to Australia. For over 5 years we have been busy exploring Australia together and I have always tried to manage the gaps with other things, focus on things we both enjoy and try to ignore, forget and suppress feeling and emotions. 

 

Eventually, I thought having a child can change the course of events in my life. But it worked out to be totally opposite. Our first child born and the second one immediately after with no plan for it took us as a surprise. It was against our value to go for a termination, even though we discussed the option. Our life was completely screwed. By time passing and children getting older we didn't have time to do activities we used to and the emotional gap got bigger and bigger. We were separated for a short time but I couldn't stand life without my children and she tried to take them away and it was a constant struggle. We tried to manage a mutually beneficial relationship and living together now. 

I could see how she grow both mentally and emotionally, built herself a successful career and being an excellent mum. I tried to focus on children and divert all this emotion and love to them but inside I was being anxious and depressed with low self-confidence and emotionally broken and dissatisfied.  

Whenever we talk or argue about this, during our conversation, she always insists that she enjoys every aspect of the relationship with me and it is me that is not satisfied and still exploring.  Its been a constant struggle to be on the dark side and get along with contradictions. For a while, I also thought she may be a lesbian. I have always been an advocate to be open and honest with your sexual orientation. We spoke and she said she is clearly not a lesbian. And this story was going on and on, an extremely cold and lifeless relationship with all those things you already know. 

I have recently read an article about Asexuality and emailed it to her. Apparently, she has since been reading and researching this topic for weeks. The sun has finally come out and shed light on this dark side of our relationship. I am saying dark as I did really suffer many aspects of it for a long time. She has made it clear that she has never been sexually attracted to anyone. Never even sexually thought of any man or woman in her entire life. Never been turned on, no heart bit no desire.  She made it clear that she married me as I was a right option at the time and she liked some aspect of my personality and most of all it was time for her to get married. She never felt intimacy or love in that way with me. She has also revealed that she shared this with our family doctor and was told that she has to accommodate my sexual needs as a duty of care! (What a Doctor!).  She said she never enjoyed having sex with me and has always been pretending and faking everything to keep me happy. She now is happy for me to chose my way and is sorry for everything. 

Now, as a matter of fact, I have been lied to, deceived, been incriminated for everything wrong in our relationship,  besides the feeling that I sexually imposed myself on someone with different sexual orientation for over a decade. She was extremely controlling and I got subjected to domestic violence because I was lonely and was in contact with few females I knew through facebook and etc.   I felt completely broken. It's too late and scary to start all over again. I don't possess the quality and youth to attract a female of my standards anymore. It feels that I have to accept my fate. Please let me know if there is anything that can make things better.

Thank you for listening to me. "

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Traveler40
On 11/28/2017 at 5:02 AM, Jay.J said:

Just wondering how to find the right person, putting up an add doesn't seem that possible, how do you explain you situation to people? I am thinking about opening my relationship but have no idea where to start. It seems to be risky, unsafe, and not possible unless you find someone in similar situation that is attractive to you and shares the same needs and wants, sound very rarely possible. 

Hi Jay.J,

 

i think you’re off to a good start in that you’re exploring options and asking

questions.  Please keep in mind that what may work for one person may not work for another.  

 

With that said, I think you may consider simplifying things.  In my search for a lover, I never revealed *why* I was looking to open my relationship until it made sense.  Initially, I kept my intentions and limits both direct and clear. I simply outlined my needs and expectations.  The why isn’t important at the outset.  Making the initial connection(s) to see what sticks is paramount.  

 

That was my approach and was quite effective.   Only after creating connections did the why become relevant as part of the relationship development.

 

If you’re looking for a lover, it’s generally assumed that you’re missing crucial elements in your current relationship.  You will organically cover the why in the natural progression of important connections.

 

Frankly, my lover is single which has worked out much better than I could have ever imagined. I wouldn’t want to try and solely pair with a man who had an asexual wife.  Why?  I wouldn’t have been opposed, but why limit options to a certain subset of men with a defined set of circumstances? Finding the best match is what matters. 

 

As an aside, I did seek an attached or married male thinking it would help self limit the relationship.  In fact, I fought off my lover quite strongly, but he was persuasive and persistent.  He won in the end as he was frankly far and away the best choice for me.  It took me time to break away from the “he must be married” mindset and therefore I’ve altered my mindset to not limit the pool....

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Jay.J
11 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

Hi Jay.J,

 

i think you’re off to a good start in that you’re exploring options and asking

questions.  Please keep in mind that what may work for one person may not work for another.  

 

With that said, I think you may consider simplifying things.  In my search for a lover, I never revealed *why* I was looking to open my relationship until it made sense.  Initially, I kept my intentions and limits both direct and clear. I simply outlined my needs and expectations.  The why isn’t important at the outset.  Making the initial connection(s) to see what sticks is paramount.  

 

That was my approach and was quite effective.   Only after creating connections did the why become relevant as part of the relationship development.

 

If you’re looking for a lover, it’s generally assumed that you’re missing crucial elements in your current relationship.  You will organically cover the why in the natural progression of important connections.

 

Frankly, my lover is single which has worked out much better than I could have ever imagined. I wouldn’t want to try and solely pair with a man who had an asexual wife.  Why?  I wouldn’t have been opposed, but why limit options to a certain subset of men with a defined set of circumstances? Finding the best match is what matters. 

 

As an aside, I did seek an attached or married male thinking it would help self limit the relationship.  In fact, I fought off my lover quite strongly, but he was persuasive and persistent.  He won in the end as he was frankly far and away the best choice for me.  It took me time to break away from the “he must be married” mindset and therefore I’ve altered my mindset to not limit the pool....

Thank you very much for your comment. I really enjoyed reading it. As matter of fact I desperately need love and affection in my life but it feels scary. Cant explain why or how it just does. I found it difficult to find someone to. Love.  I don't know where should I look, not a big fan of online dating but I am giving it a try and it's not working. I will definitely employ the strategy not to tell people why and that was a great help, I do appreciate that. I guess what I am struggling with is where to find someone effectively. 

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Jay.J

As soon as you tell you are in a relationship with two young children  people stop looking at you as an option. It's very different with the way females experience it, as it's much easier for them to find someone matching their values and standard. Lets say I hide the why behind it that makes perfect sense how about the fact that I am in a relationship and have two young children, wouldn't then this will the miss interpretation that I am cheating on my partner?  

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Traveler40
44 minutes ago, Jay.J said:

As soon as you tell you are in a relationship with two young children  people stop looking at you as an option. It's very different with the way females experience it, as it's much easier for them to find someone matching their values and standard. Lets say I hide the why behind it that makes perfect sense how about the fact that I am in a relationship and have two young children, wouldn't then this will the miss interpretation that I am cheating on my partner?  

I have a couple of thoughts:

 

1. I totally agree with you about online dating. In fact, I flat out did not feel it appropriate to my situation and therefore didn’t even go that route.  I felt a clear, direct explanation of who I was (married), what I was looking for and what I expected of a potential partner to be the best approach.  I placed an ad...the more descriptive the better in my opinion.  

 

2. I read men’s ads for a few months before constructing my own and even answered a few in words...I never met any of those folks, but the process was hepful in learning what appealed to me.  It was the beginning of focusing my thoughts on how I might approach things.

 

3. Please don’t misunderstand me: I do not advocate deception if you hope to take a long term lover.  I’d like to clear up your questions simply by sending you my ad as an example.  I’ll PM it as it may help for reference.  Again, it IS easier for women due to volume, however it was by no means easy.  I took months from the day I first connected with my lover to even begin our current status.  I fell down a number of times, but got back up and tried again.  Patience, being ultimately open, paying attention to detail, and staying true to my needs were all critical.

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Jay.J
59 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

I have a couple of thoughts:

 

1. I totally agree with you about online dating. In fact, I flat out did not feel it appropriate to my situation and therefore didn’t even go that route.  I felt a clear, direct explanation of who I was (married), what I was looking for and what I expected of a potential partner to be the best approach.  I placed an ad...the more descriptive the better in my opinion.  

 

2. I read men’s ads for a few months before constructing my own and even answered a few in words...I never met any of those folks, but the process was hepful in learning what appealed to me.  It was the beginning of focusing my thoughts on how I might approach things.

 

3. Please don’t misunderstand me: I do not advocate deception if you hope to take a long term lover.  I’d like to clear up your questions simply by sending you my ad as an example.  I’ll PM it as it may help for reference.  Again, it IS easier for women due to volume, however it was by no means easy.  I took months from the day I first connected with my lover to even begin our current status.  I fell down a number of times, but got back up and tried again.  Patience, being ultimately open, paying attention to detail, and staying true to my needs were all critical.

loved your thoughts. thank you for sharing.

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Jay.J
2 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Hi Jay.J,

 

i think you’re off to a good start in that you’re exploring options and asking

questions.  Please keep in mind that what may work for one person may not work for another.  

 

With that said, I think you may consider simplifying things.  In my search for a lover, I never revealed *why* I was looking to open my relationship until it made sense.  Initially, I kept my intentions and limits both direct and clear. I simply outlined my needs and expectations.  The why isn’t important at the outset.  Making the initial connection(s) to see what sticks is paramount.  

 

That was my approach and was quite effective.   Only after creating connections did the why become relevant as part of the relationship development.

 

If you’re looking for a lover, it’s generally assumed that you’re missing crucial elements in your current relationship.  You will organically cover the why in the natural progression of important connections.

 

Frankly, my lover is single which has worked out much better than I could have ever imagined. I wouldn’t want to try and solely pair with a man who had an asexual wife.  Why?  I wouldn’t have been opposed, but why limit options to a certain subset of men with a defined set of circumstances? Finding the best match is what matters. 

 

As an aside, I did seek an attached or married male thinking it would help self limit the relationship.  In fact, I fought off my lover quite strongly, but he was persuasive and persistent.  He won in the end as he was frankly far and away the best choice for me.  It took me time to break away from the “he must be married” mindset and therefore I’ve altered my mindset to not limit the pool....

Also I need help for a title, of course when I figure out where to place the add. 

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blue dog

you might do as my wife, be discreet, go about it with long shopping trips or days you get your nails done or hair appointments combined with shopping. dont talk about it or flaunt it and be upbeat. still treat him well and be kind, in general just get along and stay friendly. dont get emotionally attached to whoever the partner is you find. and have him keep his distance and know his place.  i think your husband will still respect you and probably be glad your happy .

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MrDane
18 hours ago, blue dog said:

you might do as my wife, be discreet, go about it with long shopping trips or days you get your nails done or hair appointments combined with shopping. dont talk about it or flaunt it and be upbeat. still treat him well and be kind, in general just get along and stay friendly. dont get emotionally attached to whoever the partner is you find. and have him keep his distance and know his place.  i think your husband will still respect you and probably be glad your happy .

This is a difficult thing for me, as a monogamistic sexual, to get my head around. I have always valued ‘sharing’ as a great part of our relationship. First of all, I wouldnt want my marriage to open up, but want to find the “compromise’ within the relationship. I would even like us to share more of our experiences, like how our day went, what we dream about, what makes us sad and happy. 

 

If the asexual do not want to have sex, but wants the sexual to find this kind of recreation and also to stay together, then why not share the story? This idea of sneaking off while pretending to be on a long shopping trip, sounds unhealthy to me. I would rather tell, that I go shopping and also see if “my sex partner is available”.  I dont tell every time I went to the gym about how it went or who I met or which exercises where hard/good. But I might say if it was a good session and perhaps take a shower, because I didnt have the time. 

 

I do understand the possibility of jealousy or feeling unadequate or how the year long attempt to compromise can wear one out. I just think that “opening” should require some level of sharing as well. Otherwise it will again be my (and solely my) project to have a marriage and sex combined.

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Pest

The relationship I am in is open and has been since the beginning, and it works just fine. My partner has known since before we started dating that I am not interested in sex, and I knew that my partner has a strong sexual drive. It just felt natural to have an open relationship.

 

Except for the whole "inherently mono or poly" discussion from earlier in the thread, there are some other things I'd like to address as well.

 

There is a big difference between opening a relationship up and having an open relationship from the start. Opening it up could mean big changes in the core foundation of the relationship. Regardless of what that change is, a change at the core could make the whole thing unstable. It doesn't have to, of course, but there are risks.

 

Some cliches are such for a reason: communication and consent is always key.

 

Something that has been very important for my partner and me in our relationship has been intimacy, both physical and emotional (but never sexual). It is not for everyone (especially when talking about aces), but to us it is essential. It keeps the romance alive, and that is the important part. At least for me.

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