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Advice needed


Decaf

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Hi.
I'm male (possibly agender), 56, and aro/ace. I also deal with schizophrenia and agoraphobia.
A few weeks ago I was hit on quite aggressively by a woman at my mental health support group and I don't seem to be able to process it properly. This has never happened to me before.
I no longer go to the group, which is a shame as I got a lot out of it.
The few people I've told have tended to roll their eyes, smirk, laugh, or even say stuff like "You old dog!"
I can't help feeling that if a vulnerable woman went to a mental health support group and was promptly hit on by a male member of the group, something would have been said and the situation taken seriously.
Maybe if they'd asked me if I wanted to grab a coffee sometime, I could have brushed it off, but this was fairly sexually explicit with blunt language that left no room for interpretation.
It left me feeling weird and freaked out, and several weeks later it's still on my mind a lot.
I didn't complain to the group leader for several reasons. The woman who hit on me was older and a part of me feels that older women should be able to have a vibrant and open sexuality without censure. Maybe what happened wasn't so much wrong as just in the wrong venue. I wouldn't want her to be banned from the group because I can't handle something that for all I know is a routine part of life.

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Would that person get banned from the group right away? Isn't there some kind of "severe warning, don't do that again"? This incident has robbed you of something valuable, namely your participation in the group. I think it is appropriate that you take actions to get that back. Your needs are just as valuable as those of the woman that hit on you. Either talk to the group leader, or talk to that woman directly, and make it clear that you did not appreciate what happened.

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Thanks, Roland.
After speaking a few times to the group leader about different things, I get the feeling that she'd be someone who would react to the situation with a smirk or a laugh.
Everyone else has, so far.
I can just see how it would pan out - "what's your problem?? Most people would be flattered!!" etc, except that I can't help thinking that the situation in reverse ie male to female. would be a different story.
Yes, I think you are right in that she wouldn't immediately be ejected from the group, but she would still be 'put on trial' in one way or another.
I guess what I'm struggling with here is this; Has she done something wrong, or am I reacting in the wrong way?

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3 minutes ago, Decaf said:

Has she done something wrong, or am I reacting in the wrong way?

Does your group have a code of conduct? Read up on it.

 

If there is no rule against what she said to you, then it is a matter of communication. Then you must mention, point out, make it clear that you don't appreciate that kind of talk when addressed to you, that it makes you uncomfortable, and that you won't stand it. If the other people in the group would smirk or laugh about it when it happened to them, that's their choice. You felt offended, and I think the other members of the group should at least accept that as a fact and act accordingly in the future. They don't have to share your feelings, they just have to respect them. If they don't respect how you feel... then that group isn't a good place for you anymore, I'd say.

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Thanks.
I wouldn't say I was offended - I was freaked out. I'm not sure why exactly, but I've never been in this situation before.
The group is voluntary and informal - there is no written code of any kind.

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Then I suggest you go to one more meeting and speak up that it freaked you out. Ask her or them politely to respect that, just as you respect their views and feelings.

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The more I think about this, the more I think it's me who's being unreasonable.
It happened, she's not going to proposition me again, I should just let it go.

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I don't want to be loved in that way, but I agree that most people probably do and it's maybe a reasonable thing to express it.
 

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On 2.09.2017 at 0:15 AM, Decaf said:

The more I think about this, the more I think it's me who's being unreasonable.
It happened, she's not going to proposition me again, I should just let it go.

It's not being unreasonable. If you don't feel comfortable with this kind of thing you should feel free to say it. I wouldn't be okay if someone behaved this way towards me. You are not compelled to accept this or feel bad for, well, feeling bad about this. This group should make you feel safe and it stopped doing that. What's more, I do agree that if genders were reversed people would probably react diferently, and that's shitty.

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Thanks, Cinary.

The person is maybe 20 years older than me, which also seems to amuse the few people I've told about this.
Again, I can't help thinking that reversing that age gap - a male who's 20 years older than the female he's propositioning.....I believe that a lot of people would react in a different way between the two situations.

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10 hours ago, Decaf said:

The few people I've told have tended to roll their eyes, smirk, laugh, or even say stuff like "You old dog!"

Really?! Where the heck do you live in that this is viewed as normal? I don't know you but I don't like to be approached by strangers (or people in general) and I don't allow it, no matter if they are my same age, older, beautiful, in all their senses or not. You are going to a support group, not a bar. And these people should know better too. Is context and purpouse.

 

I suggest you to not stay silent about what YOU feel, because that is what matters. The other don't seem to care apparently, nor that woman or the group leaders, and if you stay silent they will just think whatever they want. Speak up, be polite but firm, because they are there to help you as much as the others about things that concern you, and this is one of them.

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Thanks, Lar.
I guess I'm concerned with being ostracised from the group.
In my experience, people who complain in groups are very much frowned upon by the management.
And I don't want to be a figure of fun....the butt of the other members jokes.
Judging by my experience so far of trying to speak about this with people, that's a real possibility.

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I don't know...this sure doesn't sound like a very supportive support group, if you have to worry about being ostracized. You are supposed to feel safe and have your opinions valued, and you haven't had that happen. You said that "she isn't going to proposition me again"--why do you say that? Personally, I also would feel freaked out if someone did that to me, so I don't think that you are being "unreasonable." I would privately talk to the group leader and explain your concerns, then if she responds as you fear she might, then you have at least tried (and you are thinking about not returning anyway). You could also suggest that a code of conduct be put in place, as you (or anyone) should be able to feel safe in this group.

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa

It doesn't sound to me like part of the group's remit is to be hit upon while attending, as far as I can see from your description, it's supposed to be a safe space, as others have said, so that you can work through concerns and issues into a happier situation, so I think I'd have a quiet word with the group leader. You don't have to mention who did the hitting, just that you were uncomfortable about it and could the ground rules be spelt out before meetings? I guess people who want to meet a life partner can arrange to meet up separately after the group, but then they may have a conflict of interests within the group, so I don't know if that's a good thing in the long run. 

Anyhow, as someone who doesn't even know when they're being hit on, I've been too verbose for my own good, but I hope that you get through this and not lose your support system.

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@Decaf Please pardon my over simplifying reply. Leaving the group because you have no more problems would be fine. Facing an additional problem is just another reason to go back. 

I'm 9 years younger than you and don't know how you usually present yourself. I think my approach to these things would be acting according to my (absent) life experience; i.e. I'd de-mothball the teenage boy, blush cutely and apologize for not being ready for such things yet, in a more or less formal manner. 

The important part seems to react and to be kind of an open book for the other side.

On ‎01‎.‎09‎.‎2017 at 11:02 PM, Decaf said:

Maybe if they'd asked me if I wanted to grab a coffee sometime, I could have brushed it off, but this was fairly sexually explicit with blunt language that left no room for interpretation.

Did you somehow verbalize that to her? - "Sorry madam I am derailed... - When I started to procrastinate dating 4 decades ago, I thought the explicit stuff wouldn't happen before going for a coffee the 2nd time. I never went that far and don't know how to handle your sudden interest in me." 

So far I never encountered somebody willing to argue on after I fired a childish argument.

I also think I was dabble dating one gal for whom sex seemed an option when I was 17 but didn't feel ready to go for that stuff told her and nobody bit my head of...

On ‎01‎.‎09‎.‎2017 at 11:50 PM, Decaf said:

I can just see how it would pan out - "what's your problem?? Most people would be flattered!!" etc, except that I can't help thinking that the situation in reverse ie male to female. would be a different story.

You are probably right about the different story. But does society really neglect to protect the same thing in both cases? - I mean: Aren't men in general more likely able to follow their sexual orientation i.e. run and climb the next tree for shelter than women who face a sexual predator? 

As unwanted suddenly out of the blue getting

On ‎01‎.‎09‎.‎2017 at 11:02 PM, Decaf said:

hit on quite aggressively

might be; I'm sure you'll prepare a reply for the next time, if there will be one. It's just one more or less awkward: "no, sorry (& maybe a hint of an explanation)". 

And since your incident happened a few weeks ago that lady might have pulled her fish out of the dating pool in between?

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RiseOfCourage

Aw Decaf, sorry to hear this happened. You're not wrong for your reaction, heck no! No doubting yourself friend. It's not your fault the other people in that group lack understanding or empathy for your situation. Sexual harassment is what it is, but our wacky society unfortunately holds a different expectation for men. Just think if the genders were reversed in your group and a man "aggressively" hit on a lady and invoked the same uncomfortable feelings in that lady that had occurred to you. It would be a big deal and the guy would probably get instantly booted from the group.

It really sucks with this selective standard where people don't take sexual harassment towards men as seriously. This stupid unfairness is not your doing.

The woman who bothered you must've assumed you were more sexual and wasn't sensitive to your discomfort. She might be pretty embarrassed or feeling foolish by now, so she may pretend you're invisible and leave you alone if you go back to that group. Depends on her level of maturity. If you told her you're not interested, would she accept that?

I know you have that reserve of inner strength and resolve. Another person, like that woman, can't take away your power unless you allow it. Put your foot down and know that others can't push you around by hitting on you, or keep you from engaging in self improvement with supportive groups.

 

Some people use flirting as a sneaky way to deliberately make another uncomfortable. The sexual aspect of that type of flirting is merely a stupid power play and an attempt to control or weaken another, or cause them discomfort. The asshole then takes satisfaction feeling "powerful" because they caused such dismay in another. Was that woman one of these types? Eek!

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On ‎03‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 2:34 AM, RiseOfCourage said:

Aw Decaf, sorry to hear this happened. You're not wrong for your reaction, heck no! No doubting yourself friend. It's not your fault the other people in that group lack understanding or empathy for your situation. Sexual harassment is what it is, but our wacky society unfortunately holds a different expectation for men. Just think if the genders were reversed in your group and a man "aggressively" hit on a lady and invoked the same uncomfortable feelings in that lady that had occurred to you. It would be a big deal and the guy would probably get instantly booted from the group.

It really sucks with this selective standard where people don't take sexual harassment towards men as seriously. This stupid unfairness is not your doing.

The woman who bothered you must've assumed you were more sexual and wasn't sensitive to your discomfort. She might be pretty embarrassed or feeling foolish by now, so she may pretend you're invisible and leave you alone if you go back to that group. Depends on her level of maturity. If you told her you're not interested, would she accept that?

I know you have that reserve of inner strength and resolve. Another person, like that woman, can't take away your power unless you allow it. Put your foot down and know that others can't push you around by hitting on you, or keep you from engaging in self improvement with supportive groups.

 

Some people use flirting as a sneaky way to deliberately make another uncomfortable. The sexual aspect of that type of flirting is merely a stupid power play and an attempt to control or weaken another, or cause them discomfort. The asshole then takes satisfaction feeling "powerful" because they caused such dismay in another. Was that woman one of these types? Eek!

 

 

 

Thanks.
No, I don't think it was a power game or anything complicated or subtle. I think it was exactly what it appeared to be - ie "I like you - wanna have sex?".
I think it was the very bluntness of the situation which unnerved me. I'm really not used to thinking in that way. It would have been a lot easier for me to deflect a "Fancy a coffee sometime", which I guess can amount to the same thing, but put in a less up-front way.
Anyway, I returned to the group a few weeks later and it was OK. The woman blanked me, which was fine by me, and I felt that it was all resolved and that I could carry on with the group.

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Thanks to everyone for your help with this.
I'm still wondering about my aspie-type reactions to what seem like fairly ordinary social situations.

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Happy to see it worked out for you Decaf.

 

I don't think it was a " fairly ordinary social situations". It's possible the woman got tired sending you subtile little signs and opted for a more direct approach. An all or nothing last gesture that I had to deal with in the past and hopefully never again.

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On ‎21‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 0:05 PM, Nidwin said:

Happy to see it worked out for you Decaf.

 

I don't think it was a " fairly ordinary social situations". It's possible the woman got tired sending you subtile little signs and opted for a more direct approach. An all or nothing last gesture that I had to deal with in the past and hopefully never again.

Thanks, Nidwin.
That's a very good point and one that hadn't crossed my mind.
In the past, friends have often said that 'such-and-such really likes you', but I never pick up on the signals. Never ever lol
Maybe that's what happened here - that it eventually came down to this lady having to be incredibly blunt because I'm unable to read signals or cues or hints.
Another puzzle for me is that I basically identify as ace/aro and agender. Perhaps this person is as bad at reading signals as I am lol

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  • 2 weeks later...

IDK blatantly asking for sex and asking someone out to coffee to chat I HOPE are two totally different things!

 

I find what she did creepy, and I think you are correct in thinking someone will feel ostracized if you say something. Even though the stakes are higher, if I called someone out for doing something creepy at work thats similar to this I could lose my job. To me, in a case like this I would just ditch the group. Even though it would probably never happen again I would never feel comfortable there again (not suggesting you shouldnt, thats just me) unless she left. 

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