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Alt-right neo-nazis assault counter protesters


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2 minutes ago, Yato said:

I don't condone violence against anyone, and when it happens it is tragic. But the amount of disinformation to paint one side the bad guy is disgusting, and offensive to me. So what if they have a different ideology. They have every right to rally just like anyone else. Just leave protesters alone, and no violence will usually happen. Besides, violence only promotes them on the news. So even counter protesting just escalates the situation into a riot. The Mainstream Media doesn't report on Right wing rallies, unless there are counter protesters to begin with, and a lot of the time. They go just to cause problems, to start a riot to prove that the Right wing guys are the bad guys. I find that tragic and sad. 

So you're blaming the counter protesters for the violence committed against them, which included injuries and death.

 

edit: and also saying that the alt right  and neo-fascists are the victims because they look bad for the violence and killing they committed

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3 minutes ago, Yato said:

I don't condone violence against anyone, and when it happens it is tragic. But the amount of disinformation to paint one side the bad guy is disgusting, and offensive to me. So what if they have a different ideology. They have every right to rally just like anyone else. Just leave protesters alone, and no violence will usually happen. Besides, violence only promotes them on the news. So even counter protesting just escalates the situation into a riot. The Mainstream Media doesn't report on Right wing rallies, unless there are counter protesters to begin with, and a lot of the time. They go just to cause problems, to start a riot to prove that the Right wing guys are the bad guys. I find that tragic and sad. 

They didn't just have a different ideology, they lined up with TORCHES (!!!) and one dude killed people??? Like I'm sorry I'm too emotional for this right now. 


Yes, PLEASE leave protesters alone and maybe don't intimidate them or drive into them? Are you SERIOUSLY trying to say that the counter protesters are at fault? 

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Just now, Ms. Maya the Bee said:

So you're blaming the counter protesters for the violence committed against them, which included injuries and death.

It is no one's fault, but the person who did the act of violence. Violence happens at riots, that's just how it is. Its a social phenomena called hysteria. People go crazy in charged events like this, and are not usually at 100% rational capability. It's tragic, and sad that it ended up that way. 

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3 minutes ago, Kelpie said:

They didn't just have a different ideology, they lined up with TORCHES (!!!) and one dude killed people??? Like I'm sorry I'm too emotional for this right now. 


Yes, PLEASE leave protesters alone and maybe don't intimidate them or drive into them? Are you SERIOUSLY trying to say that the counter protesters are at fault? 

I agree. 

 

I think we should wait till its over to discuss it, and the facts come out instead of jumping to conclusions about an ongoing event. It really isn't going to help anything. You are not the only one emotional over this. 

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Binary_fiction
14 minutes ago, Yato said:

Wikipedia isn't a legitimate source of valid information. 

I'm gonna stop arguing with you because you are more concerned with trying to be right and victimizing yourself than you are into understanding that we are all talking about the same thing here. If you want so much to be part of the alt right movement, then my Jewish trans ass will stay away from you, that's all.

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Just now, Binary_fiction said:

I'm gonna stop arguing with you because you are more concerned with trying to be right and victimizing yourself than you are into understanding that we are all talking about the same thing here. If you want so much to be part of the alt right movement, then my Jewish trans ass will stay away from you, that's all.

Feel free to not argue with me. Most people don't, but I see that you are new so I won't be aggressive about it. I just wanted you to know that AVEN has more than just Left wingers on here. There are people from all sorts of walks of life, and political backgrounds. So just be careful of how you talk about any group, because the odds are someone here identifies as one of them. Even if they seem bad to you, and ok to insult. 

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Just now, Yato said:

Feel free to not argue with me. Most people don't, but I see that you are new so I won't be aggressive about it. I just wanted you to know that AVEN has more than just Left wingers on here. There are people from all sorts of walks of life, and political backgrounds. So just be careful of how you talk about any group, because the odds are someone here identifies as one of them. Even if they seem bad to you, and ok to insult. 

Be careful about how you talk about neo-fascists, you don't want to offend people who want you dead?

 

scary

 

(also you don't need to tell people that there are more than just left on here, it's terrible obvious when we can't make a single political topic without it resulting in this kind of defensiveness from right wing members)

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Binary_fiction
1 minute ago, Yato said:

Feel free to not argue with me. Most people don't, but I see that you are new so I won't be aggressive about it. I just wanted you to know that AVEN has more than just Left wingers on here. There are people from all sorts of walks of life, and political backgrounds. So just be careful of how you talk about any group, because the odds are someone here identifies as one of them. Even if they seem bad to you, and ok to insult. 

I don't care that you have right wing argument, I'm fine with that, your opinion is yours but you calling me a liar, trying to call me the monster when everyone here been telling you to stop making it about yourself which is what you're still doing by derailing the threat constantly and then pretending to be the "wisdom of aven" is bs here. I'm sorry but you're more concerned with your owne go than you are with the subject at end... The violence done by a party of neo nazi. Keep your advices to yourself okay?

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2 minutes ago, Binary_fiction said:

I don't care that you have right wing argument, I'm fine with that, your opinion is yours but you calling me a liar, trying to call me the monster when everyone here been telling you to stop making it about yourself which is what you're still doing by derailing the threat constantly and then pretending to be the "wisdom of aven" is bs here. I'm sorry but you're more concerned with your owne go than you are with the subject at end... The violence done by a party of neo nazi. Keep your advices to yourself okay?

I attacked your argument, not you as a person. I never called you a liar, or a monster. I simply stated your source of information was fallacious. 

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Woah, this is crazy! I tried to watch the additional videos but the woman must have locked down her twitter account since the story went live, so I could only see the first one. But, what the hell is with all of these groups who think violence is okay? If the protestors were there peacefully (which it sounds like they were) then anyone who attacked them is way out of line. I'm horrified anything like this is being associated with the Right in any way and they're doing a disservice to what the majority of that side actually believes in by behaving this way.

 

I really don't know what is up with weird extremists or what-not in the NE area and the coast. Wasn't Charlotte, NC by a different riot a few years ago? And now Charlottesville, VA... my word. Violence never helps a side.

 

I'm all for keeping the Confederate statues etc. because people are more than a single side or viewpoint they held, but this was not the way to go about defending that either. These people are in no way the normal right-wing, or even most further right individuals.

 

------

I hadn't ever heard the two slogans the article was attributing to Nazis, so I tried to look them up and this is what I found if anyone else was curious about the slogans:

"Blood and soil" was listed as a saying adopted by the Nazi's but created by someone else earlier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_Nazi_Germany

The second one, "You will not replace us," I couldn't find on the list at all.

Oddly enough the first slogan doesn't seem to have been a very popular or very well known one. It's not listed on this page of slogans for the Nazi Party: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

 

1 hour ago, Ms. Maya the Bee said:

Alt right doesn't mean "anything that isn't republican"... (by that definition all leftists would be alt-right, lol)

 

it is mostly neo-fascists, like I quoted in the original post

maybe we should stop using the phrase "alt-right" and just call them neofascists.

I'm for the bold if the group seems like facists. It'd certainly be more specific than Alt-right, which everyone seems to use in different ways, which is problematic.

 

20 minutes ago, Yato said:

And I don't disagree, but I have a feeling the News is labeling the wrong group as the perpetrators like they always do. Why call them the Alt right if they are Neo-nazis? Totally different groups. 

Also in agreement here. They've been using "Alt-right" to mean anything going against the GOP side of conservatism--- including aspects like libertarianism sometimes.

If they're acting like facists or neo-nazis then they should use the more specific term.

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straightouttamordor

The "Alt" right and the "Alt" left actually have an large amount of overlap. Sure they are diametrically opposed on many social issues. But on Fiscal issues, the Environment, freedom of speech and press ( even if it's offensive) and the utter failure of the two party system they are way closer than either side wants to admit. Foreign policy is another area where many on the right have changed their minds. Foreign intervention and senseless wars ( police actions they call them) is yet another area where they have abandoned Republican/ Conservative policies. 

I hate any type of violence. I don't watch professional fighting or over the top violent movies at all. America seems to be sadly entertained by blood. Much like the Roman Empire in it's death throes. Bread and Circuses. The last stage of any empire is always the age of decadence which follows the age of conquest and affluence.

So so sad to see no common ground and wrong blame inciting violence towards any one for any reason.

If you truly want to throw the rascals out who fund and foment this stuff you have to protest in another way.

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Binary_fiction
48 minutes ago, Yato said:

Pretty easy change the definition to suit your needs, of something you made up to smear your competition to begin with. 

This is when you called me a liar, not when you said that Wikipedia is not a "source of information". We are in a forum here, I'm not presenting an essay for a master in a university btw... Wikipedia can be used as a valid source of information sometimes. Heck even aven has its own Wikipedia, are you saying aven's wiki is also fallacious?

 

im sorry but you, constantly arguing over the definition of alt-right over the actual subject of the thread which was discussing the current events happening is what I'm trying to denounce here, not your far right politics for I don't care if you are a trump supporter or republican, that's your call. On the other hand, if you support racism, sexism, antisemic, transphobia, xenophobia or any form of discrimination in a forum aimed at being free of said discrimination, you won't get my support and you can be sure that I will call you on it, as others would as well. I might be "new" on the forum but I've been reading it for a long time before I chose to get in and I'm 34 years old, it's not my first forum about gender or sexuality. I might be left wing and you might be right wing but no ideology justify murder and violence.

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No, Yato, you can't say the individual is the only one responsible for the violence. Ideas have been responsible for far more violence than any weapon in the history of humanity. You could say that the last century was a violent clash of ideas. 

I think its kind of ridiculous to have monuments on either side that glorify the lowest point of American history. I live in the South and the war set us back 75-100 years in developing our economy. Now that the coal industry has run its course, we have nothing left, no manufacturing ( even less than the country as a whole) and all that has lead to the current opioid rampage because MCDonalds and other restaurants can only absorb so many of the unemployed. 

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31 minutes ago, prib23 said:

The "Alt" right and the "Alt" left actually have an large amount of overlap. Sure they are diametrically opposed on many social issues. But on Fiscal issues, the Environment, freedom of speech and press ( even if it's offensive) and the utter failure of the two party system they are way closer than either side wants to admit.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "alt-left" but a big thing of political left is being pro socialism, against capitalism, communism ect.,  not things the "alt-right" are known for... so I have no idea what this "alt-left" you're talking about is

 

(ps. no one uses the term "alt-left")

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19 minutes ago, ABryonJ.maybe? said:

No, Yato, you can't say the individual is the only one responsible for the violence. Ideas have been responsible for far more violence than any weapon in the history of humanity. You could say that the last century was a violent clash of ideas. 

I think its kind of ridiculous to have monuments on either side that glorify the lowest point of American history. I live in the South and the war set us back 75-100 years in developing our economy. Now that the coal industry has run its course, we have nothing left, no manufacturing ( even less than the country as a whole) and all that has lead to the current opioid rampage because MCDonalds and other restaurants can only absorb so many of the unemployed. 

All History should be preserved, regardless of bad or good. Erasing history is terrible, because then we forget our past, and repeat the same mistakes. Good or Bad, we should have things to constantly remind us of our mistakes, and our successes. 

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People assaulting other people has turned into a discussion about erasing history. Wow. I'm not even surprised. >_> 

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Removing monuments is not erasing history. They could be put in a museum where they could be properly contextualized. As it stands they are on public land and as such if the majority find them offensive then why not remove them?

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21 minutes ago, Kelpie said:

People assaulting other people has turned into a discussion about erasing history. Wow. I'm not even surprised. >_> 

The protest was about the monument being removed. How is that not relevant. That is literally what they are protesting. 

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1 hour ago, Yato said:

It is no one's fault, but the person who did the act of violence. Violence happens at riots, that's just how it is. Its a social phenomena called hysteria. People go crazy in charged events like this, and are not usually at 100% rational capability. It's tragic, and sad that it ended up that way. 

Calling a demonstration and counter-demonstration for a riot is far fetched. And saying "these things just happen" when speaking of a violent act that clearly intend to murder political adversaries is a apathic and dangerous attitude. There's no reason to prorect people who instigate violence.

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7 minutes ago, ThaHoward said:

Calling a demonstration and counter-demonstration for a riot is far fetched. And saying "these things just happen" when speaking of a violent act that clearly intend to murder political adversaries is a apathic and dangerous attitude. There's no reason to prorect people who instigate violence.

I'm not protecting anyone that committed violence. I was trying to bring in the proper perspective that this is nothing new, and remind people that both sides are just as bad. Then explaining how the media marginalizes and skews violence against the Right, but exaggerates the tragedy of violence against the Left. Outsiders looking in would never know, because they only see our CNN 90% of the time. Which is exclusively Left-Leaning, along with most all of our major news outlets. If you only gauge USA by what you see on CNN, you will have have a very biased and false view of it. 

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Binary_fiction
4 minutes ago, ThaHoward said:

Calling a demonstration and counter-demonstration for a riot is far fetched. And saying "these things just happen" when speaking of a violent act that clearly intend to murder political adversaries is a apathic and dangerous attitude. There's no reason to prorect people who instigate violence.

Especially by saying something as dismissive as "these things happens". It's horrible and without any form of empathy for the victims of said agressions who will have to undergo various process to cope recover from the events. Yes the individual needs to be taken accountable for the action they have done but the promoters of said ideology should have heir part of the blame as well since their invitation to violence is part of the escalation that made the situation so explosive.

 

you can't just toss oil in a fire and tell people "well yeah fire burn" when the fire burn down the entire forest as a result of your action.

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And this idea that you have to abstain from judging until you get all the facts is asking way more than you would expect from any situation. We never have all the information we would need to make a perfect judgement. So by knowing that the KKK and other white nationalist groups are involved its a pretty safe bet that they are the groups who incited violence based on their past history of violence.  

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5 minutes ago, Binary_fiction said:

Especially by saying something as dismissive as "these things happens". It's horrible and without any form of empathy for the victims of said agressions who will have to undergo various process to cope recover from the events. Yes the individual needs to be taken accountable for the action they have done but the promoters of said ideology should have heir part of the blame as well since their invitation to violence is part of the escalation that made the situation so explosive.

 

you can't just toss oil in a fire and tell people "well yeah fire burn" when the fire burn down the entire forest as a result of your action.

And KKK members and Nazis (blood and earth is a third reich slogan) are not known for having a peaceful religion and ideology. The Right and Left (in the broader sense) are both wise to condemn them and be in support of a free society and to especially condemn the outright murder instead of doing literal victim blaming.

 

Now let us only hope the police helicopter was an accident.

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The worst thing about this is that there are people saying the USA has to be protected from immigrants who do this. And then these are the citizens that do this. Peace out. I'm tired. 

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Binary_fiction
3 minutes ago, ABryonJ.maybe? said:

And this idea that you have to abstain from judging until you get all the facts is asking way more than you would expect from any situation. We never have all the information we would need to make a perfect judgement. So by knowing that the KKK and other white nationalist groups are involved its a pretty safe bet that they are the groups who incited violence based on their past history of violence.  

Yes but some people will not believe what you say unless you have a valid source of information (valid in their own opinion) and people like to live in a state of semi denial where "proof or didn't happen" or "both side are just as bad" becomes their main argument to dismiss the death of individuals over an ideology.

 

I'm not saying that we should have blind faith but if you tell me that a bunch of nazi are attacking people left and right I will have a much easier time believing it than if you told me that cat grew wings and started flying lol.

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