Jump to content

How accepted are conscientious objectors in your country?


Leolith

Recommended Posts

By conscientious objectors I mean people who are fit for military service but opt out of it, in the form of alternative service / community service / compulsory paid community service (I'm not sure what the popular English term is).

 

In Austria (where I'm from) it's very common for young men to chose "Civilian Service" (=Zivildienst) and the numbers have been rising over the years. Now about 40% opt out of military service every year. (German article with the percentages for 2015 found here)

 

Personally I think that's a good thing and I have the impression that it's generally accepted in Austrian society.

How is the situation in your country? Are people who refuse to serve in the military mocked or accepted? Do they suffer from disadvantages (in the working world)?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here in the USA there isn't currently any obligation to join the military, so there's no real need to 'opt-out'. Thus it's pretty accepted, I guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites
chair jockey

Compulsory military service occurs in only some countries, and my apologies that I don't know more about which ones. There is no compulsory military service here in Canada.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Retrobot said:

Here in the USA there isn't currently any obligation to join the military, so there's no real need to 'opt-out'. Thus it's pretty accepted, I guess.

 

2 minutes ago, chair jockey said:

Compulsory military service occurs in only some countries, and my apologies that I don't know more about which ones. There is no compulsory military service here in Canada.

ooh thank you two for pointing out my narrow perception of the world! Indeed, wikipedia tells me that there are very few countries with compulsory military service, I guess my wrong assumption came from the attitude towards Korean / Vietnam war objectors in the US during the period of conscription

Link to post
Share on other sites
chair jockey

You've just made good use of the internet, which is something to feel really good about. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Leolith said:

 

ooh thank you two for pointing out my narrow perception of the world! Indeed, wikipedia tells me that there are very few countries with compulsory military service, I guess my wrong assumption came from the attitude towards Korean / Vietnam war objectors in the US during the period of conscription

Ay, no worries! Always nice to learn new things. I didn't know military service was compulsory in Austria tbh.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I come from (but do not live in) France, and there, military service is not compulsory, so again, no 'opting out'. Very few people do it, I know that out of the 25 people who were in my class the last year of high school, two were planning to do military service, a boy and a girl (a couple).

There is an equivalent of Zivildienst, called Service Civique, and it's quite popular too, not as a substitute to military but as a way to fill one year with something else than studying, and being paid for useful work. Quite a few of my friends did it, while studying, between two uni-years, or as they had to retake a few classes of a year and had a lot of free time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Karacoreable

Nothing compulsory in the UK and therefore as others have said it is very accepted. It's so accepted that it's not an issue that ever really arises, thankfully.

Link to post
Share on other sites

no compulsory military service in ireland.

 

in the historical context, we were also neutral in world war II so it hadn't arisen then. unfortunately, we did of those in our armed forces who then enlisted in world war II were not treated well by the irish government when they returned to ireland.

 

in world war I, we were the only part of the uk not to have conscription.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, Canada didn't let conscientious objectors vote until 1945 but we haven't had a draft since. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The only country I know that has mandatory military service is South Korea, but it is somewhat in their best interest to be that way. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Depend. More conservatives look at them as cowards and the more extreme ones as traitors. Most don't really care.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The U.S. requires all males between the ages of 18 to 25 to register for military service,  Induction has been voluntary since 1973, and people volunteer for a variety of reasons. Many feel the classic motivation of serving their country; others are attracted to learning technical skills , and some see the military as an employer of last resort.

Link to post
Share on other sites
SorryNotSorry
1 hour ago, coyote55 said:

The U.S. requires all males between the ages of 18 to 25 to register for military service,  Induction has been voluntary since 1973, and people volunteer for a variety of reasons. Many feel the classic motivation of serving their country; others are attracted to learning technical skills , and some see the military as an employer of last resort.

Well, yes... but if you're hoping to join the Air Force, Marines, or serve on a Navy sub, you're talking about something that's tougher to get into than just your bare-bones enlisted Army or Navy bit.

 

The draft in the US, if Congress voted to reinstate it, has become a very double-edged sword since Vietnam. The requirements for registering as a conscientious objector are much stricter, but OTOH if you're an only child or you have autism, the military isn't going to want you to serve unless WW3 is going on and the more physically and mentally fit people have already been called up.

 

A dirty little secret (and a somewhat paradoxical one at that) about the draft slipped out during the 1991 Gulf War. Since Vietnam, the Selective Service System had been tightening up the deferment schedules so much that when Iraq invaded Kuwait, all the men age 18-26 had to register, and this time around, all the spoiled little rich boys found that they wouldn't be able to bribe their way out of it. Ergo, except for only 3 members of Congress, few other bureaucrats had any enthusiasm to reinstate a draft.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12.8.2017 at 4:01 AM, Yato said:

The only country I know that has mandatory military service is South Korea, but it is somewhat in their best interest to be that way. 

Finland has mandatory military service, and you go to jail for a short period of time if you decline. You don't have to go if you're ill (mostly applies to mental illness I think) or a Jehovah's witness. Also, if you come from the demilitarized islands of Åland, you don't have to go.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Where I'm from we are not a military country and we've never been the focal point of a war since the colonial days when the Spanish and British were playing hot potato with us. So military service is completely optional and not compulsary.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, CaptainYesterday said:

The U.S. also ties many rights to this registration.  You cannot vote, hold public office, receive federal loans, and a few other things as a man if you have not registered for selective service.  But, again, this only applies to men.

I thought it was for women now too? I am not sure though. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Yato said:

I thought it was for women now too? I am not sure though. 

I had to go reconfirm this, but nope. The bill suggesting that passed the Senate last year but was stripped from the House version of the bill so it didn't go into law. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/us/politics/fact-check-women-register-for-draft.html

(Ah the chaos the NY Times article caused....)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Israel has compulsory military service for two years.  

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

We no longer have anything like this in Britain. However I can see logic in "public service", similar to military service, but involving anything for the civic good, as an opt-in for people aged, say between 18-25 who are not in employment or education. It could, if used properly, be a step to reduce long-term unemployment in this age group 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

We no longer have anything like this in Britain. However I can see logic in "public service", similar to military service, but involving anything for the civic good, as an opt-in for people aged, say between 18-25 who are not in employment or education. It could, if used properly, be a step to reduce long-term unemployment in this age group 

That would be a great idea for the US.  Many young men and women have volunteered to go  to Iraq and Afghanistan because they couldn't get jobs and wanted training, and have come home badly compromised.  A national public service requirement from 18-20 (or post-high-school for two  years) with training would benefit the trainees and the nation.  But under the current political attitude, that's not going to happen.  We're privatizing wars for the financial benefit of corporations.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...