JDP Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said: People who'd carried out published, peer reviewed research. Here's some links: http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/guide/sex-and-health#1 http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodsex/Pages/ValentinesDay.aspx https://greatist.com/health/health-benefits-of-sex http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/12-reasons-you-should-have-sex-with-your-partner-every-day.html None of which is credible. No one dies without sex. It's as healthy to eschew sexual relations as it is to engage in them. I makes no difference. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Quote None of which is credible. Clearly you're basing that statement on something more than mere assertion. I'd be interested to see your dissection of the research projects and their methodology. Quote No one dies without sex No one's said they would. They said sex has health benefits. Link to post Share on other sites
Arctangent Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I had written a rather long post here before, but decided it wasn't worth making the argument. Link to post Share on other sites
vega57 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 5 hours ago, gaogao said: To a certain extent I agree that it could be food for thought, but I was pretty skeptical of the rest of it as well, mainly because even if there is any truth in it, the way it was written just seems too generalised/sensationalised. The sentence about 'successful women' was especially grating... and with a view like that I can't help but doubt this expert's understanding of sex and sexuality especially if those sorts of prejudices come through in her work. Also articles like this just bother me because it doesn't strike me as right to imply things like 'if you aren't having sex or masturbating twice a week it's unhealthy / you should be concerned," or "healthy couples have sex twice a week because sex and its frequency is usually reflective of communication" it's just... man... one size fits all doesn't work for human beings. Sure, they acknowledge that it's "not a problem unless the partner perceives it as a problem" but if you write something in an article like this in a medical website I'm pretty sure many people might start to question whether everything is really okay if they are happy having sex /masturbating less than once a month, which I hear is actually pretty normal, even among sexuals (anecdotal evidence, but still). Anyway, I haven't been following this discussion - it's just that I clicked on the link because it seemed interesting and ended up being a little disturbed. Have fun debating, guys... I agree with what you said here. What bothers me most about these....articles...is that there's no room for the freedom to NOT desire sex. It's assumed that "everyone" wants it; "everyone" has this "innate" "desire" for it. Even in many health classes in high school, we're taught that we're ALL going to "want" sex at some points in our lives. But no one ever asked *us* if we would desire it; it's just assumed that we "should" desire it. If or when we don't, we're seen as an anomaly. Just like lesbians and homosexuals used to be seen as (and to some degree, still are). There are too many variables for me to conclude that "sex"--as 'defined' by others--is 'innate', especially if "sex" is "supposed" to include heterosexual intercourse. Link to post Share on other sites
JDP Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Telecaster68 said: Clearly you're basing that statement on something more than mere assertion. I'd be interested to see your dissection of the research projects and their methodology. No one's said they would. They said sex has health benefits. Let's start with WebMD's spurious claims about sexual intercourse. 1. Keeps your immune system humming. There is no scientific basis for this statement, other than increased infection of sexually transmitted diseases increases the number of antibodies to those diseases. People who masturbate don't have that problem to begin with. 2. Boosts your libido Why is that a "health" benefit? Porn also increases libido. 3. Improves Women's Bladder Control So does masturbation. 4. Lowers Your Blood Pressure This is dubious. It is only claimed that it lowers systolic pressure. As any cardiologist will tell you, that's not the important one. 5. Counts as Exercise So does walking up and down a flight of stairs. Sex burns a whole 5 calories a minute. You'd need sex for 36 minutes to burn the calories from a can of soda. Again, none of this speaks well for the "health benefits" of partnered sex. It's just more propaganda by the sex industry. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 @Vega91 I just noticed you've replied to a couple of posts but not followed up our discussion, so I guessed you must've missed it. It's on the last page, so I look forward to your thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
Sea Lemon Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: @Vega91 I just noticed you've replied to a couple of posts but not followed up our discussion, so I guessed you must've missed it. It's on the last page, so I look forward to your thoughts. Wrong Vega I've got nothing productive to add to the discussion aside from that Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Oops. Apologies.... Link to post Share on other sites
Sea Lemon Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I thought Capslock Club was expanding to take over more threads for a second there Edit: Oh wait, I do have an actual on-topic point to make... is it not just that it's innate to some/most people but not to others? Link to post Share on other sites
vega57 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Law of Circles said: I had written a rather long post here before, but decided it wasn't worth making the argument. I'd still like to read it. Link to post Share on other sites
vega57 Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 16 minutes ago, sea-lemon said: I thought Capslock Club was expanding to take over more threads for a second there Edit: Oh wait, I do have an actual on-topic point to make... is it not just that it's innate to some/most people but not to others? I guess it depends on what we believe the definition of "innate" is...just like what we believe the definition of "sexual desire" is. Which I believe is part of the problem. We don't have a universally accepted definition of either. So....... Link to post Share on other sites
Sea Lemon Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 9 minutes ago, vega57 said: I guess it depends on what we believe the definition of "innate" is...just like what we believe the definition of "sexual desire" is. Which I believe is part of the problem. We don't have a universally accepted definition of either. So....... Hm yeah that's true... To be clearer, I was going with the assumption that it meant something along the lines of instinctive/unlearned. In that sense, it is innate for some because there are people who have said that in their experience, they didn't have to learn to have those urges, they just did. Whereas others have had the complete opposite experience in that no such thing had ever really crossed their mind, so not innate for them. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I do believe I've been blocked... Link to post Share on other sites
SithLord Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 25 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: I do believe I've been blocked... Hopefully just ignored. I mean, the OP has been doing it a lot and just claiming ignorance. Though ignorance seems to be the basis of this discussion entirely... Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Who knows. I think anyone reading the thread will get the gist though. Link to post Share on other sites
vega57 Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 38 minutes ago, sithgirlix said: Hopefully just ignored. I mean, the OP has been doing it a lot and just claiming ignorance. Though ignorance seems to be the basis of this discussion entirely... Ohfercryinoutloud. Please STOP with you assumptions. I haven't done a damn thing to block anyone on this forum. Please. Get a grip. Sheesh... Link to post Share on other sites
vega57 Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 Just now, vega57 said: Ohfercryinoutloud. Please STOP with you assumptions. I haven't done a damn thing to block anyone on this forum. Please. Get a grip. Sheesh... Please stop trying to stir a pot that's not even on the damn stove.. Link to post Share on other sites
Homer Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 2 hours ago, vega57 said: What bothers me most about these....articles...is that there's no room for the freedom to NOT desire sex. It's assumed that "everyone" wants it; "everyone" has this "innate" "desire" for it. Even in many health classes in high school, we're taught that we're ALL going to "want" sex at some points in our lives. You keep jumping back and forth. Your main point at the start was that there is no such thing as an innate desire to have sex; it would be a learned behaviour, caused by masturbation. That would deny the existence of this innate desire for everyone. Now quite a few people have chimed in, explaining that their POV is that such an innate desire actually does very much exist. This does not rule out that there are people who don't experience this desire. It's very much possible to acknowledge the existence of this desire even though one doesn't experience it oneself. By the way, what would cause people to masturbate to begin with, if it wasn't their own wish to try it? Also, there is no such thing as a "freedom not to desire" things. You don't get to choose your desires, that's not how things work. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 @vega57 Answer my points then. Link to post Share on other sites
SithLord Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 1 hour ago, vega57 said: Ohfercryinoutloud. Please STOP with you assumptions. I haven't done a damn thing to block anyone on this forum. Please. Get a grip. Sheesh... I was actually siding with you this time... Link to post Share on other sites
vega57 Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Homer said: You keep jumping back and forth. If you read what I've written carefully, I'm not. Quote Your main point at the start was that there is no such thing as an innate desire to have sex; it would be a learned behaviour, caused by masturbation That wasn't my main point. Quote That would deny the existence of this innate desire for everyone. Now quite a few people have chimed in, explaining that their POV is that such an innate desire actually does very much exist. This does not rule out that there are people who don't experience this desire. It's very much possible to acknowledge the existence of this desire even though one doesn't experience it oneself. By the way, what would cause people to masturbate to begin with, if it wasn't their own wish to try it? The desire to stimulate one's genitals isn't the same thing as the desire to have someone else do it for us. Quote Also, there is no such thing as a "freedom not to desire" things. You don't get to choose your desires, that's not how things work. Actually, there is. But that's beyond the scope of this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Homer Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Tar is right. This is utterly ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites
Arctangent Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 5 hours ago, vega57 said: I'd still like to read it. With all due respect, I don't feel it would be worthwhile. It would probably just end up being frustrating for both sides. If you feel you know the answers, then I won't try to dissuade you from your view - it seems to me that you've already made up your mind. As for me, I have my own opinion, but I'm certainly no expert on the matter. But I hope you can see why some of us might be rubbed the wrong way when an asexual person (who, by definition, does not experience sexuality the way a sexual person does) claims to know the nature of a sexual person's desires better than they do. Asexuals aren't the only ones who don't like having the way they ought to feel dictated to them by people who have little to no personal experience or empathetic understanding relevant to their situation in life. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Time to leave @vega57 to her ridiculous Creationist delusions. Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 8 hours ago, vega57 said: Please. Get a grip. Sheesh... That'll cure a sex urge 8 hours ago, vega57 said: Please stop trying to stir a pot that's not even on the damn stove.. Just make sure it doesn't end up in the oven Link to post Share on other sites
J. van Deijck Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 what's even a sex urge? Link to post Share on other sites
Homer Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 6 hours ago, alpha decay said: what's even a sex urge? It's when people crave sex, duh Link to post Share on other sites
vega57 Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 19 minutes ago, Homer said: It's when people crave sex, duh Define "sex". Link to post Share on other sites
Homer Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 40 minutes ago, vega57 said: Define "sex". click I know you mentioned all the different things that people considered (not) to be sex in that survey a few posts back, but you missed/ignored the fact that all these different sexual activities could be "craved" by the respective participants. Having different definitions for a thing doesn't rule out the possibility to crave just that. Edit: You're denying the sheer possibility of an urge for something you don't seem to be able to define for yourself (feel free to come up with a definition right away; please spare us the usual "I never said x" reply). I find that... odd. "I don't know what it is, but it certainly doesn't exist." Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Define 'define'. See, I can play this game too. Link to post Share on other sites
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