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Is it common to change and/or abandon organized religion?


Galactic Turtle

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Galactic Turtle

Hello humans. ^_^

 

I've never posted in this part of the forum before. @___@ But another thread I saw about someone leaving the Christian faith caught my eye. While I was raised in a Christian household, as I get older I keep finding myself in more and more conflict with the church.

 

Religion has always had an odd place in my life. Historically the church for African Americans has always had a very heavy social, political, and overall cultural impact especially in predominantly black neighborhoods. The stories my parents and grandparents tell me of church in their day differ greatly from how I've experienced church as an adult. The people there are very nice and act lovingly but are also quick to denounce almost anything they might consider to be strange. Once I sat through a sermon talking about how "strange people" are usually "confused about something" and how "confusion is a sign of the devil." In this case, confusion was a man wearing a skirt. 

 

As someone who has always been decidedly strange when compared to my peers, I feel no different around practicing Christian adults today as I did around the "popular kids" in high school. I don't understand why they do the things they do or why they act the way they act. On some level it's hard for me to believe that they're not all acting because how could so many people to be so uniform? It is jarring the extent to which they talk about marriage and being given the perfect husband, and even more jarring how much they will make a statement and refuse debate or questions to follow. Homosexuality is also mentioned a lot (as a kid it was never mentioned in Sunday school) and I find it hard to believe that they were all ok or indifferent about homosexuality before they "found God." Half the people in my church were "saved" after making a series of bad life choices whether it be drugs, alcohol, or crime, yet get so offended when I say I'm not attracted to men, like I need to be put in my place or something. It seems more like they always were creeped out by the idea of two men kissing and the bible just happens to back them up on it whereas for things that are considered to be more "normal" like masturbation or premarital sex, the discussion and debate floor is automatically open because "who really waits in this day and age" and "it's impossible to not masturbate if you get the urge" and "scripture can be interpreted in multiple ways." I understand that if you're really dedicated to a religion then it only makes sense for you to follow its doctrine, but so many people pick and choose which parts of the bible they'd like to follow and that seems a bit twisted to me.

 

Other than those highly political topics there just seem to be so many hypocrites, so much patriarchal rhetoric, so much anti-diversity (I always found it funny that it was said that Sunday mornings have always been and remain to be the most segregated part of the week in America) and so much anti-thought. If I even try to open a debate even in bible study they just keep saying stuff like how I'd better watch out for the devil. If God is the creator of all things in existence I'm sure God can handle a few questions from some random girl.... like why do we address God with male pronouns? Or like why are we talking the bible literally word for word if it was written over a thousand years ago in a different language in a different cultural context that it seems like nobody takes the time to understand? As a fan of Korean pop music I've seen full arguments break out over the English translation of tabloid headlines about who's dating who.

 

At the same time I have this remaining apprehension that perhaps all of this is true, and by thinking the way I think and acting the way I act I am somehow leading my friends who have similar mindsets as me into eternal damnation. I can't say in good confidence that there is no God, I just think the church in general could do a lot more good if they focused on helping the community that exists right now (homeless LGBT youth included) instead of hiding in a building a few times a week, ranting and raving about how these are the end of days, how humanity is doomed, and how only the people sitting next to us in the pews will achieve salvation because as kids we got shoved under water while wearing all white.

 

In short, at least as far as the modern black baptist church in America goes, I find myself in increasing moral conflict, but this brand of Christianity seems like it should just be part of who I am. I don't know a single African American person who does not identify as Christian so it is strange. A large part of me doesn't even understand the point behind organized religion. Nobody knows what happens after we die. I've made up tons of religions for the books I write and it seems like the only thing that makes any religion more or less legitimate is how many followers it has.

 

Sorry if I ranted, it's just something I've been thinking about a lot. Why can't we all just be nice together and try to improve our quality of life?

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ItWasNiceKnowingYou

Nah it's fine to rant. People change their religious points of views more often than people think. Imo this sounds like you're disagreeing more with how people are representing/shaping the religion rather than the religion itself (?). I could be reading wrong so please correct me if I am. But even I have this issue with some organzied places as well.

Anyways, i know and am good friends with people who are spiritual/religious but aren't a part of any institutions or place of worship.... And i mean i see nothing wrong with that if that's how they choose to go about religion. There are African Americans & other people of color who aren't Christians.

 

Basically, it's fine not to align or agree with a certain institution imo.

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TheCatBehind

I'm an atheist, but I was raised in a Christian household. I never particularly cared about all of that and as I was getting older all the empathy I felt for the stories they told us in school (and whenever I went to church lol) slowly got undermined by a couple of facts 1) people were stuffing it down my throat even harder if I dared to have a comment to anything, 2) a priest asking me if I masturbate at the confession is not something I am either comfortable or sorry for, and 3)... Turns out I don't believe in any of the important part of Christianity. Not God not Jesus Christ, not Heaven, not Hell.

 

Disagreeing with representatives and other members of the faith I consider normal, especially seeing how large those communities are. My policy is always "you do you" :D 

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I have no clue about American Baptists. 

I was raised protestant and felt an urge to leave church when I was 20. - No regrets. I am posing Atheist in ordinary life but can't get Christianity entirely out of my bones. But I don't need a church (membership) when I feel urged to pray because I am on an apparently insane rider's rear seat. 

According to stats Germans are more likely to leave the comparably more rational protestant church than the mystic Roman Catholic one.

 

You have to find your peace with the church you are (not?) attending and the religion you are following. - I suppose life isn't miserable enough anymore to establish a strong need for religion for everybody? 

I got the impression that American preachers / priests tend to stir up their flock during services, attempt to convey "the spark". - The protestants here might even be atheists. They preach in a not touching way, trying to offend nobody... I guess in a few centuries they'll start serving coffee after the services to make sure people wake up properly after napping through them... 

Not sure about other congregation members' importance to me. - I think one should discuss religion only with people on one's own wave length? But yes, it always seemed strange how people going to church on Sunday might perceive Christianity. - Are services really about religion? Or are they an expression of the local community's burgeois mainstream? 

I see a lot of folks identifying as Wiccan or Buddhist some even turn Muslim... And most of them were born into families that defined in the Christian Apatheist spectrum. So I think it is at least absolutely not uncommon to grow no roots into Christianity. - Of course some folks also abandon it's mainstream flavors and find their fast lane to God in smaller Christian groups. But the big mainstream church seems challenged to attract and please people long term. - Maybe it's history is to blame? 

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Karacoreable

I'm sure it's not uncommon. How easily done it is depends on the strength of views you've been exposed to during your childhood, I suspect. It must be very very difficult to leave behind something you've known all your life. 

 

The main point of this answer is that I admire you for questioning something so ingrained. I think it must be an incredibly difficult thing to do, to go against something that's such a fundamental part of your community. My upbringing would be easy to leave behind; my parents are open minded and liberal, they tell me their opinions and then encourage me to form my own. But it sounds like for everyone you know, church is a big part of life. 

 

Is the lack of tolerance for anything different a big part of what you don't like?
 

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I think it is. I was raised Christian and believed in it for a long time, but in the past few years I have been questioning some of the aspects of it, such as hell and the things God says and does in the Bible that I don't agree with. And I was never good at being religious tbh. I now tend to describe myself as agnostic. I don't have anything against religion, just some of the things that many religious people believe.

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swirl_of_blue

I find the just the thought of a community being very religious somewhat incomprehensible. I live in a country where ~70% of the people are members of the state church, but the state itself really isn't religious at all and most people are probably agnostic. Religion is not seen as a community thing, but something very personal. People generally do not advertise their religious opinions, and most people go to church maybe once or twice a year. I haven't been a member of the church for years, since I saw no point in being a member but not believing (also the church collects a tax from its members). The people that seem to be most knowledgeable here about the bible are those who have studied Christian texts, disagreed and then left the church! I certainly see questioning organised religion, studying you religious text yourself and then making up your mind as something very much positive!

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I grew up Mormon, and used to accept what the church told me as facts (and anyone who told me things really, because I was so naive). When I was about 12, I started having doubts and drifting away from the church, although I blamed my family because they were going through some "trials of faith". Now though, I know it couldn't have really have been completely prevented and I consider myself agnostic. I found pantheism which looks really cool though. It seems to be very common at my school to drift away from the church.

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SorryNotSorry

Even as a boy growing up in a family that considered themselves non-denominational Protestants, I've never been able to bring myself to believe in things I can't prove are real. I know electricity is real because I can measure it if I have the right tools, and I know it can hurt or kill me if I'm careless with it. Same goes for radioactivity. But how to measure something which is supposed to be incorporeal? Even if God was what I make Him out to be—a disembodied mind, essentially energy with some material properties—why hasn't He forced His way into people's minds and hijacked them? Don't even get me started on what a couple of frauds I think Heaven and Hell are.

 

Overall, I think secular humanism is the modern-day whipping boy for religious dogmatics who understand everything only in black and white. But I also liken secular humanism to a patient giant who's eventually going to get tired of getting constantly clobbered over the head by evangelicals and fundies, and it's anyone's guess what the giant will do when that threshold is finally crossed. I seriously doubt there will be any divine intervention even then.

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Edit: Okay, so spoilering just the quoted first post didn't work-- it took my response with it and wouldn't let my response out of the spoiler so I had to delete everything and then just link to the first post instead. :blush:

Spoiler

 

 

Yes, I think it's fairly common to change or abandon organized religion now. By all the polls I've seen in the last several years it's becoming more and more common for individuals to not identify themselves as practitioners of an organized religion, even if they still consider themselves spiritual. We become disillusioned by how the people in the churches we go to act, by how the books, rules, or lessons are interpreted, by the refusal or inability to answer our genuine well-meaning questions, and by how other groups we identify with or see lacking support are treated by the religion/people of the religion.

 

 I didn't have quite the amount of pressure that you do to remain a Christian, but I can imagine the pressure you feel because of how integral Christianity is and has been to your community. I was raised Christian but do not consider myself a Christian. My entire distant family considers themselves religious, and it's played a noticeable role in some aspect of my life. We attended regularly as children and sporadically as teens, large family gatherings usually mean someone saying grace before a meal, religion or readings of the bible have cropped up in conversation more often again, a lot of people I associate with assume I'm Christian because they knew my family, and I even have a preacher in the family.

 

However, I don't consider myself a follower of Christianity for a lot of the same reasons you're struggling with your church; my questions weren't treated with respect or answered with any real seriousness (I don't consider being told "That's the way it is/how He wanted it", or that you need to "Watch out for the devil" a sufficient attempt to answer someone), I felt like I ran into too many people whose actions didn't seem to be in-line with their beliefs and who picked and chose what beliefs or interpretations they wanted to follow. I didn't feel comfortable or at-home in the church, and it got to the point where I didn't understand the point of organized religion--- much less in participating in it. My family always talked about the support they got from their fellow Christians, or the activities and connections they had in church in their past--- but I never saw or felt that.

 

I know I can't speak for everyone but I don't believe you would be leading anyone into eternal damnation. There are elements in religion that are not about morality, the goodness of people, or saving souls, and were instead included as tools of control. Religions had to have a way to keep their followers loyal and prevent them from going to other religions (they'd lose out on money given to the church and could potentially lose the large amount of influence they accumulated as religious leaders). Threats of eternal damnation-- something no one will ever be able to prove or disprove-- are a phenomenal way to do that.

 

 Logically, I can't believe that a God, who is supposed to be so loving and so forgiving of sins, would send someone to eternal damnation for doing what they feel is right, for trying to be a good person, for searching for truth, or for wanting to help people more than those currently around them are doing. Nor can I imagine they'd punish a good person simply for not continuing to use a label or for not going to a church service. According to the Bible, Christianity wasn't always popular; the struggle was to stand for what you believe in even when it's tough and when the crowd is against you, so I can't see how doing the same thing now would get you damned-- even if it's a group of Christians who may not be walking the talk. Salvation wouldn't come from following the easy road that everyone else only pays lip-service to, and damnation won't come from following your personal morals and acting in-line with those.

 

It's not easy to be the one who isn't Christian, but if you do choose not to identify as a Christian you can always emphasize that you still share many of the same values of the religion (even if not the values of some of its practitioners). Alternatively, if you'd like to try and remain a Christian in name, have you thought about changing churches? I know it may still be unpopular and difficult if you mention it to some in your community, but other churches or even denominations may be less exclusive with their salvation and more active with their missions to help a variety of groups of people.

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SorryNotSorry

You eventually have to stop and think, "what benefit is my involvement with organized religion providing for me?"

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa

My parents just paid lip service to religion ,as they knew they had to 'fit in', but I never bothered.Eventually, I got interested in the Dalai Lama's sect, but only for a short time, as the tantric aspect put me right off. Back to being atheist for the last 4 years now, I think we'll move forward out of all our separate 'tribes' of religion eventually.

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AwkwardAxolotl

It's pretty common to change religions and/or leave organized religion behind. I was raised an Episcopalian (my mother is a priest), and a lot of the parishioners in the Episcopal church are former Roman Catholics, so changing religions (especially if it's just jumping from one branch of Christianity to another branch) is fairly common. Also common is going from being [insert religion of choice here] to being agnostic/atheist, which is, I guess, what I've done. Organized religion doesn't really do anything for me. I don't know if there is a deity/deities or not, I don't think so, but if there is, it wouldn't make much difference to me anyways.

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It is and isn't. Depends on your culture and country. Some places don't allow for atheism. Some people practice religion despite not believing it. The West is pretty unique in this reguard.

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SorryNotSorry

Hoo boy... I know this has little to do with the thread, but just thought I'd throw it in here.

 

A friend of a friend on FB started following me (her idea, not mine) and she made the mistake of commenting on something she disagreed with on a Pastafarian page where I'd commented. She's Christian and the post involved some not-very-flattering opinions about Heaven... so then she starts trying to argue with them about it, and they beat up on her and taunted her until she seemed about ready to cry.

 

If you see a hornets' nest, LEAVE IT THE FUCK ALONE.

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Galactic Turtle
On 7/30/2017 at 9:19 AM, SimplyAce said:

Imo this sounds like you're disagreeing more with how people are representing/shaping the religion rather than the religion itself (?).

I guess I just see less and less of a point to it but the catalyst for that was definitely the people representing the religion and a longtime skepticism of the source material itself (the bible). So it's like... if the basis for Christianity doesn't mean anything to me then it feels like I'm lying to myself and clinging to the belief structure to not be further alienated from everyone else.

 

On 7/30/2017 at 9:31 AM, Maks9090 said:

Turns out I don't believe in any of the important part of Christianity. Not God not Jesus Christ, not Heaven, not Hell.

See that's the thing. Could some all powerful beings or group of alien scientists have designed the universe? Sure. I don't know what was around before the universe existed or if time is a thing no matter where you go. But I don't have too much respect for the God depicted in the bible, I think Jesus could've been a real dude who existed and was a good public speaker. As for heaven or hell I haven't talked to anyone who has died so I can't say for sure whether there is one or not.

 

On 7/30/2017 at 10:13 AM, Busrider said:

You have to find your peace with the church you are (not?) attending and the religion you are following....... Are services really about religion?

It's interesting what you said about churches in other countries I had no idea about that. The message during services for me range from forgettable to upsetting. They never really talk about Christianity, per say, they're more about how you should go about life and what their motivation for that should be (like be a good person now so you'll get rewarded later which I have a problem with as a moral concept). So most of the time the messages are a bit fluffy, it's just when you actually start talking to people when alarm bells start going off in my head. I suppose it's because I've never been entirely convinced of any of this stuff that the questions I ask there make peoples eyes pop out of their head. I find it more disturbing that people there never thought to ask these types of questions in the first place.

 

On 7/30/2017 at 11:28 AM, Karacoreable said:

Is the lack of tolerance for anything different a big part of what you don't like?

That's a big part of it, I think. I guess it's kind of like how at school sure there are the popular kids but it's ok to not really be close to or talk to them. But in church there's the "popular kids" too and if you don't showcase how much you live exactly like them and if your opinions stray from theirs, you're burning in hell for all eternity. At the church I grew up in people always thought I was strange - not necessarily bad but strange - so especially the older ladies would talk about how much they'd pray for God to send me a good man to lead me in the right direction. I think another big part of it is that the bible is presented as truth. There's obviously a big hole of knowledge that as humans we just don't have answers for. In science they call it a theory and then they teach the theories but at church they present the bible as fact so there's really no room to actually talk about life, what impact the views of the bible have had on the world, things like that.

 

On 7/30/2017 at 0:40 PM, TheAP said:

I now tend to describe myself as agnostic. I don't have anything against religion, just some of the things that many religious people believe.

In my head I know I pretty much fit the definition of agnostic. It's just that admitting it would literally kill my grandmother. 

 

On 7/31/2017 at 7:03 AM, swirl_of_blue said:

I certainly see questioning organised religion, studying you religious text yourself and then making up your mind as something very much positive!

I'm definitely trying to do that! I read it on my own but of course if I have questions I have to ask people in the church so naturally the more questions I ask the more people start to say things about me and it really quickly gets uncomfortable.

 

On 7/31/2017 at 8:38 PM, Woodworker1968 said:

Even as a boy growing up in a family that considered themselves non-denominational Protestants, I've never been able to bring myself to believe in things I can't prove are real. I know electricity is real because I can measure it if I have the right tools, and I know it can hurt or kill me if I'm careless with it. Same goes for radioactivity. But how to measure something which is supposed to be incorporeal? Even if God was what I make Him out to be—a disembodied mind, essentially energy with some material properties—why hasn't He forced His way into people's minds and hijacked them? Don't even get me started on what a couple of frauds I think Heaven and Hell are.

 

Overall, I think secular humanism is the modern-day whipping boy for religious dogmatics who understand everything only in black and white. But I also liken secular humanism to a patient giant who's eventually going to get tired of getting constantly clobbered over the head by evangelicals and fundies, and it's anyone's guess what the giant will do when that threshold is finally crossed. I seriously doubt there will be any divine intervention even then.

Exactly! It's jarring how in church they present everything as fact when even in high levels of math and science things are very distinctly categorized as theories that are really meant to be explored and openly debated with other theories until facts reveal themselves. In terms of secular humanism taking over, I also feel like this is happening. It seems like religion keeps wedging itself into society as society tries to advance.... but then there's always this little voice in the back of my mind that points out this is what the bible said would happen, that we'd all turn our backs on God and this would eventually lead to the end of the days. 

 

On 8/1/2017 at 10:42 PM, Cimmerian said:

It's not easy to be the one who isn't Christian, but if you do choose not to identify as a Christian you can always emphasize that you still share many of the same values of the religion (even if not the values of some of its practitioners). Alternatively, if you'd like to try and remain a Christian in name, have you thought about changing churches? I know it may still be unpopular and difficult if you mention it to some in your community, but other churches or even denominations may be less exclusive with their salvation and more active with their missions to help a variety of groups of people.

I've only ever been to baptist churches: the one I grew up in and the one I go to where I live now. Opinions on other sects of Christianity, particularly Catholicism, are very much looked down upon. In college my friends were surprised when I said I had gone to baptist churches because I was so... open? Or like because I never mentioned it probably because I really don't agree with it. People also often assume I am Christian because of the way I present myself (I dress extremely modestly which shows itself especially during the summer months), never even thought of drinking alcohol, was never interested in sex, etc., so I thought that was funny. Oddly enough going to a different denomination feels even worse than leaving because at different places they'll "lie to you" and make you think like you're doing the right thing whereas if you leave at least you know you're probably going to hell. Deep down I think I'd be happiest continuing to help people on my own. Even my own parents say I'm generous to the point of foolishness. I don't think my morals really have anything to do with the bible itself but for example I've contemplated in moments when I'm really frustrated to just toss my bible into the trash and be done with it but I can't because it feels wrong. My parents also say I'm still young and haven't experienced life so I might think I know more than older people and not view religion as very important but someday when I'm all alone I'll want a relationship with God that will be fruitless because I don't have it in me to believe certain things.

 

 

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krystal_muzik

OP,

 

I am a black chick as well. I have been so turned off by the church and Christians. I am so sick of the hypocrisy and the 2nd class citizen status of women.  If you say you don't want children, they throw the bible in your face. But, if you have sex out of marriage (which is forbidden by their book), they find all kinds of excuses to rationalize that and get mad when you bring up their hypocrisy.I don't know how common it is to challenge religion, but I feel it needs to be done. If a religion cannot stand up to some scrutiny, then it is not valid IMO.

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It's extremely common to change or abandon the religion that your parents expected you to join, when you become an adult.  It's also common to reconsider your beliefs during adulthood.  

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I'd say where you live, and the laws of that nation will play a part. Somewhere like Britain (where I live) there's a wide variety of belief structures practiced, and laws which prevent religious discrimination. However even here, in some communities renouncing the dominant religion may result in ostracism from family and community. 

In other nations, where apostasy can be met with the death penalty it is, I would surmise, much more difficult to change faith. 

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I think it has to do with whether you truly believe what the religion is teaching, your upbringing, the people around you in your religion and where you live (my aunt married a saudi and renouncing  islam carries the death penalty there.)

 

Catholicism was forced on me. If I didn't go I'd be subject to verbal abuse, sometimes physical. I sat in church every Sunday to hear the same gospel, same homely while not believing a thing and wanting to hurry home. 

 

The catalyst for me leaving was Confirmation. Mass started at 5 ended at 7 then I had to stay 3 extra hours for Confirmation class for a year. For what? At least for communion you're getting something. Apparently you receive the "Holy Spirit" but with the life I've been leading that bitch hasn't been near me. Ontop of it I wasn't allowed to eat during that 5 hours and if I did the teacher would pull some Jesus 40 days desert guilt trip. You don't do this kind of thing to kids man....

 

 

 

 

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Galactic Turtle

Everyone is right. There are no laws in my country about not being Christian although in the United States I guess you could say Christianity is the default religion (I mean it says "In God we trust" on all of our money). But vocally distancing myself from it I think would put a really strange wedge between me and the rest of my family just because Christianity is such a given? Like no joy would come from that.

 

Nevertheless if I every think of something like throwing away my bible or even just saying to myself in the mirror "I am not Christian. I do not believe there was a man born from a virgin woman who grew up to die through crucifixion and three days later was resurrected." The statement is true. I don't believe that. But it feels wrong saying that I don't and maybe it feels wrong to say I think that way because maybe deep down through whatever barely existent relationship I have with the concept of a god I know that this story despite all logic explaining why it is not true. But because of all this it feels like I've been faking in the first place... pretty much my entire life... so I feel bad about that too.

 

I'm not sure if that makes sense or not. I guess I just have to work it out myself.

  

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Does it even matter if it is "common" or not? If you feel like changing or abandoning your organized religious group, do so. I see no point in sticking wth something you don't really identify with (anymore).

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  • 2 weeks later...

TL:DR--I'm a special fucking Treebeardy snowflake with a Zombie Sky-God best friend. or something. :D

 

 

 

As a mostly straightish (having become aware of some amount of indefinable queerness in recent years) white dude who was raised in an extremely conservative Evangelical family, there may not be a whole lot of crossover between our experiences.

 

However, I had a period of questioning, followed by a year where I considered myself an atheist, followd by the realization that I never really stopped believing in what I had been taught growing up. Well, for the most part.

 

I've had a lot of personal growth over the last 3-5 years, and have come to terms with the fact that I am pretty liberal and leftist--I was a Bernie guy in the last election (well, primaries). Which has caused quite a bit of friction with my parents--my father is pretty far down the Trump rabbit hole (I'm kind of afraid to find out how far) while my mother is what I consider a '90s Republican (or, in modern political terms, a flaming liberal Republican). I present this because my religious beliefs (or lack thereof) tend to follow along the same spectrum--in terms of polarity. Not trying to paint one side as the *only* side capable of religion and the other as totally anti-religion. My dad is hardcore into every fear-mongering fad the uber-religious can come up with (back in the days of audio cassettes he would order what would today be podcasts), my mom is......not, but still has a firm belief. And me? Well, I'm done with organized religion.

 

It was a simple decision, really. I still believed in a lot of what I had been taught--the important bits, anyway. The more hateful bits fell away fairly quickly, and I have developed quite an aversion to any semblance of religious showiness. I keep my eyes open during prayer, which I don't really do as traditionally is dictated. I was raised with the understanding that Christianity was a personal relationship with God--which is basically the part of the beliefs that I kept. So, it falls to reason that if it IS a personal relationship and he really is watching and seeing everything, then I can just talk randomly about whatever and he will see, hear, and/or understand.

 

I don't fold my hands, I don't bow my head, I don't close my eyes, and I'm not entirely comfortable with the proscribed, pre-written prayers. I dislike all organized religion the more I dig into history, and that's why I turned my back on it in totality. Along with the blatant hypocrisy and excuse for behaviors. I still believe what I believe, but in more of a Treebeardish sort of way--I'm not in anyone's religion because nobody else is in mine. I was also raised with the "Old Testament is more of a guide because the New Testament fulfilled it" spritual philosophy, so I tend to disregard most of the Old Testament (That Song of Solomon tho.......). I pruned even more away when I started to wonder why the Epistles were any more spiritually important than anything modern theologians write--both modern and ancient letters were written to their faithful, based on their understanding of the underlying and overlying framework of spirituality. That's not to say I discount the OT/NT entirely, but I take it under advisement, and look for contexts--not just "Sir, yes sir!"

 

so.....these days I tend to talk randomly about random things to the Zombie Sky-God that's probably up there that I think has noticed me in this tiny point in the vast vacuum of the universe, and then me, specifically amongst the billions of humans and trillions of life forms on this planet. I think that the dude, pre-zombie, was pretty neat, and I try to follow mostly what he is alleged to have said, translated (by people who may have had their own agendas) multiple times from various cultures and contexts from people (who themselves may have had their own agenda) who may or may not have been there to see and hear the things, sometimes alleged to have been written decades or more past the time of the events occurring. I disagree with other people about many aspects of the Zombie Sky-God (I say this because Zombie Sky-God just sounds so fucking awesome to me), and don't necessarily expect anyone else to agree with me.


 

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