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[Lord Jade Cross]

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[SorryNotSorry]

I have an ingrained aversion to being part of any kind of hive mind. And anyway, I have so many individual differences that no amount of wanting to belong can gloss them over.

 

But for me, it works, and that's what matters.

[Lord Jade Cross]

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[vega57]

3 hours ago, Jade Cross said:

Anyways, this is one of, if not the biggest issues I have always had with the outside world. The idea that no matter how much you disagree with them, you just have to go along with whatever the pack says.

Sez who? 

 

When I was growing up, and even today, I can think of many examples where I went "against the grain".  During my teenage years, literally ALL of my friends smoked weed.  I didn't.  And almost ALL of them had sex by the time they were 15.  I didn't.  When most of them came home from school, they would 'play', eat dinner, do SOME of their homework while watching t.v.  They would constantly cut classes.  They were average students.  I was able to get must of my homework done during study hall or lunch.  If I had any left, I would do it as soon as I would get home. So, in those regards, I was 'different' from my friends. 

 

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I find this to not only be hugely illogical but also personally detrimental as often many are put down because their ideals do not coincide with that of the pack or even that of only the leaders of the pack. 

Find another 'pack' to travel with....lol!  Not easy, but definitely doable. 

 

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Needless to say, Ive had alot of trouble being a part of any group. For the most part if there is any chance whatsoever that I can go at it alone, I will take it. In the same matter, I will call out people when something that they do is incorrect, even by their own standards; something that obviously doesnt win me any favors, which has tended to make progress of sorts in life rather difficult.

I don't believe there's anything wrong with calling people out about their behavior, as long as you do it in a respectful way.  I've let people know when they're being hypocritical.  Most of the time, they just shrug it off.  But *I* get to choose if I want to continue to associate with them.  In fact, last year I left the company I had been with for 3 years because of them.  Too much gossip (and most of those people were supposedly "Christians"!), rumors, lies, back-stabbing, etc.  So, after many years, I've decided to go into a profession that's been my "true love" since the 4th grade.  I'm going to give it one year.  If I don't succeed during that time, I guess I'll just become a bag lady, lol! 

 

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Some might say that the solution is simply to fake it (Ive definitely heard it before) but somehow that just doesnt quite cut it. I really cant stomach even faking something Im not agreeeing witht; it leaves a bitter taste, aside from that if you fake it once, you'll be expected to do it again and again. 

I don't believe the solution is to 'fake it', Jade.  The solution is to be yourself, and to learn how to be comfortable being yourself, no matter what anyone else thinks.  That doesn't mean that you should get comfortable insulting people, lol.  But I'm pretty sure you know what I mean! 

 

Pick your battles.  Learn when to hold on and when to let go. 

[Lord Jade Cross]

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[vega57]

28 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

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Well, everyone from parents to peers and acquaintances seem to have this idea ingraned in their heads thay you should never stray from the pack. Basically, one of the reasons I hate them and dont want to belong to any pack.

Yes, some people DO think that way.  They don't want to upset the apple cart, so to speak.  Some expect a certain 'loyalty' from *you*, even if you don't believe in their cause.  If you ask them too many (of the 'wrong') questions, they start to feel 'shaky'...especially if they don't have a really solid foundation to build on.  They go on the defensive, and even start attacking those who don't agree with them, even if you have evidence to prove otherwise. 

 

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I do call people out respectfully, I respectully tell them their f***ing idiots No seriously, its a wonder a third of the people Ive worked with have managed to make any progress with their brains empty. Im not crazy about my current job but beggars cant be choosers. I have quit a job before but well, I cant afford to quit this one until something better comes along.

 I sure hope you're not sitting by idly while waiting for something to drop into your lap!  I wouldn't be too hard on some of those people.  Most are in their own little world.  I know that I've been in my own little world from time to time, and I'm prone to making mistakes and/or not always thinking things through.  But alas...I AM "only human" (yeah, I thought you'd like that last comment!)

 

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I also dont associate with them. Sure Im stuck but I dont go out of my way to make any amicable relationships. Basically I treat them as "you dont f*** with me and you wont have a problem with me"

  Wait...don't tell me....with an attitude like that, you MUST be in Customer Service, right?  Kidding, of course. 

 

I haven't exactly gone out of my way to make new friends, either.  Right now I'm a full-time caregiver to my disabled 82 year old mother.  No time/interest in having a relationship.  Although I DO have a job, the job is on an "as call" basis.  I can work for a few days, then not get called again for several months.  I'm looking into writing again, hoping I can make enough money to survive if something happens to 'mom'.  It would be the perfect job for me.  Work from home, make money, very little overhead.  Freedom to travel/visit my (adult) kids on the other side of the country.  I only regret that I didn't do this sooner.  I probably would have avoid a few "relationships" if I did! 

 

 

[Lord Jade Cross]

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[Yatogami]

It is due to efficiency. If we evolved to do things individually, we would have died out a long time ago if a war broke out. It helped us coordinate, and work together. AFter all, there is the saying "Divide and conquer".  

[Amathy]

14 hours ago, vega57 said:

17 hours ago, Jade Cross said:

Anyways, this is one of, if not the biggest issues I have always had with the outside world. The idea that no matter how much you disagree with them, you just have to go along with whatever the pack says.

Sez who? 

If you don't go along with the pack you get harassed, shunned, shamed, and discriminated against.  So you can go against the pack but you will likely suffer these consequences.

 

The socialization to be part of the pack is started by parents and further enforced by schools.  Even small things, such as how you walk, what you wear, the loudness of your voice, the words you use, etc are all due to this socialization to be part of the pack.  People can and do rebel but there are consequences.  

[Guest]

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The idea that no matter how much you disagree with them, you just have to go along with whatever the pack says.

 

This unfortunately, is one of the laws of power. You can think how you want, but among the pack--you're just one of them.

 

Of course, this is if you want to grow within the pack. Sometimes, however--the pack is where the problem lies. I.E You have friends who go to strip clubs daily, commit crimes, have no ambition and its not your cup of tea. I'd say, get better friends. You are who you choose to surround yourself with, after all.

 

I say grow, in a situation say--you're in a workplace. This means, you cannot show yourself to being a threat to the pack. Especially not the leader. Otherwise, they all turn on you. A leader turning on you, is essentially you put through hell, or quickly getting a new job. I don't know about you, but I'd rather show myself as not being a threat. Never outshining my master, and obtaining the promotions due to it. I've always been promoted in workplaces, as a result.

 

With that said. I try to get along with everyone, but won't change my standards of living, for anyone. I just keep my judgment to myself, with regards to what others do. I'll respect everyone, until you disrespect me.

 

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Some might say that the solution is simply to fake it (Ive definitely heard it before) but somehow that just doesnt quite cut it.

 

I refuse to fake anything. You shouldn't sacrifice who you are, just to please others. That's a one way trip, to misery.

 

However in some situations, you have no choice but to get along with others (I.E Work). Doesn't mean they're your friends. However, as co-workers, all you're really required to do, is to be personable and professional.

 

Even if you own your own business, its the same difference. You'll have to deal with clients that you may or may not disagree with (with regards to living standards). Its not about faking things at this point, but rather on the saying of: "Its now where you put your words. Its where you don't".

 

I'm speaking professionally only here, but there are laws to power. Patterns to it. Patterns to everything in life. This includes success, failure, and the like. Its on you to take note of those patterns, and stay ahead of them, vs falling behind.

 

In a dog eat dog world, most are out for themselves. This includes within a group. You have to be mindful of this.

 

Never lose the essence of who you are, but you also need to recognize behavioral patterns that will lead you to success or failure.

 

At the end of the day, I'm not trying to fail or starve in this world. However, I could do without shitty friends.

 

Long story short. I accept the workplace environment (as long as its fulfilling), but am meticulous about who I befriend or surround myself with, outside of work.

 

I also was surrounded by shit people growing up. I didn't agree with their way of life. I paid them no mind. No point in telling them their way of life, is shit. I never was perceived as a threat, so was left alone. I however pounced on opportunity, or created my own, and got out of that environment as quickly as I could.

 

In the environment I grew up in, everyone was cut throat, and back stabbing. I'm altruistic, and love helping others.

 

I've always gravitated towards jobs, that allowed me to do this, and the same can be said for my career choices. I'm successful, being me.

 

You have attributes and qualities unique to you. Its a long road, but the success is finding a way to let your own qualities shine, while working with others. The latter part, being the hardest. Its taken me a lifetime to find a way to do so.

 

With regards to friends.. they're either by your side, have your back, or are in your way. You don't need the latter type.

[Lord Jade Cross]

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[Guest]

Thing is I have always wprked far better than others and not once have gotten promoted, even before I started putting higher ups in their place

Getting promoted, often has little to do with working better than others. Its more to do with understanding the politics, within the given workplace you find yourself in and using them to your advantage, to get ahead.

 

Treat you like shit and expect you to just sit there and take it because you're only an employee and they are the managers.

 

I hate to say it, but your attitude will often determine what you get in life (or where). Hate your bosses? Work towards becoming your own.

 

One too many backstabbers already so I prefer going alone.

 

Sometimes alone is best in your personal life. Professionally, you're only as strong as the alliances you make. I see it like this.

Giving up on your own success because of a few bad apples, is letting them win.

[Lord Jade Cross]

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[Guest]

If you don't like kissing ass, then don't work for others. Ensure you're managing, and/or owning the company.

Preferably, the latter.

 

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How does going at it alone equate to giving up on my own succes?

 

It doesn't. You can succeed on your own. However, even in business--you have to learn to work with others. This includes finding ways to deal with that pack mentality.

 

Only point I'm making, is a positive attitude, will garner you success. Get you treated better. Improve your work, and personal life.

 

You can't change the pack mentality others have. Only control you have in this, is how you allow it to affect you.

 

One of the laws of happiness, is the capacity to accept what we can't control.

 

Happy people focus on what they can.

 

Also, just because you accept it, doesn't mean you're happy with the way things are.

 

Its like forgiveness. You're just allowing yourself to move on from it, by putting yourself at peace with it.

[Lord Jade Cross]

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[vega57]

42 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

This is why I don't understand happiness. How can you accept things as they are, not liking them and still claim to be happy?

Plenty of people do this every day.  They don't only "claim" to be happy; they actually are happy, even if there are things going on in their life that they don't particularly like.    They're generally happy.  Are they happy every single moment of every single day for ALL of their life?  No.  But being generally happy doesn't mean that they're never disappointed or even angry.  They just know how to appropriately deal with whatever life throws at them.   

 

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It sounds more like you're trying to turn a blind eye to whatever's happening and pretending if doesnt affect you when it really is? 

Turning a blind eye isn't the complete truth.  See the Serenity Prayer below...

 

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I thought the rule was, if you dont like something, change it. 

First of all, there's no hard and fast "rule".  Part of being happy is knowing what you can change and what you can't;  what should be changed and what shouldn't.  Just because you may not like something, doesn't mean that it "should" be changed, or that *you* should be the one to change 'it'.  

 

Have you ever heard of the Serenity Prayer? 

 

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God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.

We can only control ourselves.    Are you stuck in traffic?  You have the choice as to how to respond to being stuck in traffic.  Did you receive an unfavorable review from your boss?  You can choose to be angry or choose to discover whether or not your boss gave you an unfair rating OR, you can even swallow your pride, and accept that there's room for improvement in yourself.  Then, set to work on it. 

 

If you believe that everything in life "should" be as you think it "should" be, you're going to be sorely disappointed...and angry....and miserable...and probably cause misery in others.  But if you change that belief and accept that life isn't "perfect", then and ONLY then do you have a shot at happiness.

 

What are you going to choose?

 

 

[Lord Jade Cross]

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[Guest]

How can you accept things as they are, not liking them and still claim to be happy?

 

That's the thing. You're not accepting things as they are. You're accepting the fact you have no control over them.

 

You're solely focusing on what you can bring to the equation.

 

IE I used to take the bus. Our bus drivers are notoriously rude and grumpy. I can be grumpy back, but that defeats the purpose. I become them.

 

I'd always greet them with a smile. If exiting from the front, would wish them a good day. Make them feel appreciated for the work they do.

 

I accepted that I have zero control on this, but how I approached some forces them to smile back and return the favor, eventually. Even if they didn't. It didn't bother me. Seeing that I brightened some of their mornings in a minute gesture, made me happy. You know, vs being angry like the rest of my city due to the grumpy bus driver with shit customer service skills.

 

My accepting of the situation, removes any anger I would feel in not seeing major changes.

 

It's the acceptance that all your efforts to make changes may only spark one person to follow suit. You're not forcing changes onto others. You live your daily life, being that very change you seek.

 

Also. You're not pretending. It does affect you. You have a choice in how you react to it.

 

I thought the rule was, if you dont like something, change it. So how is turning a blind eye going to ever change anything

 

I don't like racism. It affects me, everywhere I go. I don't like a lot of things in society.

 

You can't force someone not to be racist. Again. It's all about your attitude. I accept that racism exists. Doesn't mean I condone it.

 

Be part of the wave of change.

 

I approach someone, and know I will change their views on black men.

 

I only have control over how I approach you. I have zero control over your perception of me.

 

It would be like trying to change our overly sexualized world.

 

Vs being the voice for asexuality, and welcoming sexual people with open arms.  

 

You teach people how to treat you.

[JDP]

On 7/18/2017 at 5:01 AM, Jade Cross said:

I really cant stomach even faking something Im not agreeeing witht; it leaves a bitter taste, aside from that if you fake it once, you'll be expected to do it again and again. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're an iconoclast. Big deal.

 

Time to play the Ramones' "I'm Against It."

[Lord Jade Cross]

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[Lord Jade Cross]

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[Guest]

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Heck even coworkers agree with me, they just dont want to stand up to superiors.

 

I've experienced this. I worked for an owner that was very abusive to staff. All staff complained, but no one ever confronted him about it. We all talked about how we should: "all just quit at once, and see how good he does, without a staff" Of course, all agreed. But I still remember our manager telling us to do a task, and him always going over her, with "his way", which always ended up being the dumbest possible way of doing things.

 

I.E A display. She had a background in decor. Her display was mindful of space, presentation, and the like. His logic was often confusing, and in the way, and the like.

 

I still remember him telling her to: "SHUT UP!" in front of her staff, and she just bowed her head. I was the only one, seething at the lack of respect that he showed.

 

It was only later, after defending myself and a co-worker in another instance, that I put him in his place. Talked over him, told him to be quiet and to listen to me.

 

I made it clear, he wasn't going to disrespect me. I have: "shown you nothing but respect from day one. I'm a person, as you are. You're not going to berate me like that..."

 

I was actually positive he'd fire me right after. I made sure I did so in front of staff.

 

If you're sticking up for someone, or yourself--all the power to you. The funny thing, is I was the first one to ever stand up to him as boldly as I did. I gained his respect. He started talking to me, asking for my opinion vs barking orders. I just hated how he still treated others, and lied about salary, so eventually quit.

 

I've also experienced, another situation. I.E An employee who had a very good way of doing things. Very thoughtful. The general manager however, did things their way or the highway. This employee always forced their way into getting the manager to see things their way. Going above them, to implement things, and through it--made the general manager feel insecure. Even told them off, with regards to how idiotic one of the things they were implementing were. Made it clear to them, and didn't mince words.

 

The general manager ended up trying to get them fired. Made a bullshit reason up, in terms of down sizing. Started giving them tasks they knew they'd hate, and deadlines they knew they'd struggle in reaching. Obviously HR put a stop to it, as there were no legit reasons for dismissal, but they likely enjoyed making that employee's life miserable.

 

I've seen the latter situation, tons of times.

 

Either that, or skip raises for that employee, while I minding my business, get raises annually.

 

Nobody's telling you not to stick up to superiors, or hate the pack mentality.

 

However, again. In a workplace, people are out for themselves. They will not risk their job, stability and the like, for you. They'll throw you under the bus even, if it means winning themselves points. Agree to your face. Stab you in the back.

 

Also sticking up, and smearing someone's nose in their mistakes or incompetence are two very different things. One is noble, the latter is the opposite.

 

[Guest]

I still remember sticking up for a co-worker who made a mistake. Their jobs were on the line. I was virtually flawless in terms of error rate (I wasn't--I was just good at catching my mistakes before they made it out to production, making me look less human than I actually was).

 

My manager asked me, and I took the blame for the mistake, as we were a team. I'm the type to stick up for someone.

 

My manager laughed, as she hadn't seen any mistakes from me, so that this was out of character. Just "be careful, next time" was my only warning. Totally worth taking the bullet, I thought to myself.

 

That very co-worker of mine, who also was pulled aside as we were both on the team, caught wind of my "deed", and threw me under the bus and blamed me for the mistake.

 

I'm sure you're well aware of it, but most of the people you'll happen to work with, will be like this.

 

Makes it all the more hard to understand why you won't focus on your own success and worry about what others do.

 

Focus on doing your job well, and forget about those who don't follow suit. You'll go a lot further in the workplace. You never know who's watching. You don't want to be the squeaky wheel. No employers like them. I'm an employer, and I can assure you of this.

 

Its not where you put your words. Its where you don't.

[Lord Jade Cross]

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[Guest]

If that's what it takes to advance, guess I'll be behind my whole life.

 

I can honestly tell you, being behind would have nothing to do with non ass kissing, or work ethic. If someone is always behind, as an employer, you always look at their attitude. Someone with a positive attitude, and an open mind, will go far in any workplace. This means, even lacking work ethic, and experience or skill.

 

This means, the capacity to give, and more importantly--take advice within the workplace.

 

The person who focuses on how good they can become, vs how good they are. Stats are meaningless. Where they can improve, means everything.

 

Employers scramble for employees like this. And will go to great lengths to retain them.

 

Point I've been making, is that you dislike the pack mentality, because it doesn't abide to your standards. I hope you understand that the fact you're so unwilling to change your ways, can at least give you an understanding as to why it would be so difficult to get an entire pack of people, to change theirs.

[Lord Jade Cross]

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[Lord Jade Cross]

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[Guest]

Obviously you want someone competent at their job.

 

The competence means you learn fast.

 

The positive attitude means instead of critiquing your superiors, you're either supportive of them or keep quiet if you're not. This isn't kissing ass. It's understanding that your boss has the power to make your life great or miserable.

 

This of course is keeping quiet if you don't see eye to eye on methods. Not if your boss goes against codes of ethics in their treatment of you.

 

You come across as highly negative. Your aura will have people treat you poorly should it be how you encounter all life situations.

[Lord Jade Cross]

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[Guest]

So again its just ego stroking.

 

Correct. There are power dynamics involved in all businesses out there. You could be working in business, or for one--the power dynamics are the same.

 

But if the employer doesnt know/learn, hes basically supposed to be told "what a good boss you are" directly by agreeing with them or indirectly by being quiet?

 

You can approach a boss about something. Nothing wrong with this. Most bosses will be receptive, if approached properly. There's that power dynamics talk going, again. 

Yes. This is ego stroking. There's no way around it. Or, you can just bash your boss, and just get ignored outright, and on top of this--bullied as a result because you bruised their ego. Nobody wants to get lectured. If he pays your bills, his attention span to your lecture, will be even shorter.

 

I've never had an issue with talking to a superior. I also understand that I'm *not* a superior, so approach them, accordingly. I don't rub faces in mistakes, but rather suggest things, and leave it up to them to decide whether or not they will do what I suggested. This is part of accepting things you can't control. I also plan time to talk to them, aside from staff, to ensure I'm not embarrassing the person.

 

Workplaces have dynamics established within them. If you really can't accept the dynamics--you need to find another workplace, or will run yourself into absolute misery. You can't change the power dynamics, by trying to force them to change. You're a crumb in a bigger pie. Not saying this in disrespect, but its like myself in my company. I'm just a manager. I'm a crumb if you look at the long line of CEO's and billionaires ahead of me. If I can't hack the power dynamics, I already know I'm the weakest link in the equation.

 

You'll get a better chance at being listened to, if you fine tune your approach, to where yes--you're friendly in how you point things out to them, vs negative and bashing them. However, if something is wrong to where it is affecting morale, safety or in any way shape or form hindering things, its not something you want to stay silent on. So you're correct in your intentions. However, a little sugar, helps the medicine go down. Remember this, when approaching someone. Especially a boss.

 

If you can't bear the power dynamics, get a job where you're top dog or own a business. However, with your approach, you'll only be pissing your bosses off, which may stroke your ego, but will be at the expense of your salary, job quality, and how they treat you, overall.

 

At the end of the day, I'm trying to grow in a business. Learn your environment, and aim to stay ahead of it.