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G0D

Is there any point in Hot Box any more?

238 posts in this topic

12 minutes ago, Polygon said:
 

Would you ditch AS-NS if AVEN became a carbon copy of it? I mean, I think it's commendable that the community's branching out and offering different sites for different needs, but why would you want AVEN to have the exact same policies when it's far more effective to offer multiple, differently run communities so there something for everyone?

I would not see the point in it any more... I mean it is not my site to ditch... Yes I created it.. But by no means am I the boss of the place. But yes, if AVEN had a section that had AS-NS rules, then I would not see a point in it continuing.. The reason I started AS-NS was that I wanted a place where people could speak freely, and where the users made, and approved the rules. If AVEN became fully democratic, then I think AS-NS might still have a place, but I would much rather we all be under the same roof...

 

It is all a bit of a pie in the sky idea, as we know that is never going to happen.. 

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23 hours ago, Puck said:

used to simply insult another group instead of actually critique many of it's members stances or tactics.

I think the community should be given the trust to just ignore such useless posts. if they trully are as useless as you're claiming here. reporting this activity is giving everyone a headache - remove "presonal attacks" from the tos. 

 

no, I'm not saying we should all just personally attack each other. I strongly prefer to just not do such things! but humans are error-bots. we spew out mistakes left right and center. when it comes to something like a threat of some kind - then yes indeed omg report that for sure. but when it comes to "personal insults"? this is so interpretive, that by having punishment for it, the result is that you're encouraging people to see insults when there are none - and to report it instead of challenging it. breaking dialogue instead of supporting it. 

 

 

as long as the mods are warning and nudging "personal insults" and other logical fallacies, such logical fallacies continue to happen just more veiled and snide and with a more bitter taste in the poster of said comment's mind. they go on and post other posts elsewhere with such bitter toungee, tho less snide and rude. I prefer not to see such things happen. let angry members express their anger, and if you are so afraid of us getting into fights then introduce short time frame bans - 12 hours, 24 hours, or 36 hours. whichever of the two you like best. give this to people who are engaged in hostility - aka a fight, but allow people their gosh darned one-liners of anger. 

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On 7/19/2017 at 8:14 PM, Puck said:

There is no new policy. The problem isn't just saying a group. You can say "far left" all you want. It's not the reference, it was what was said about it.

 

Let's review the "trouble" part of the post:

if this claim is true and also god's post is quoting the nudge word for word, then we have a problem.

 

 

On 7/17/2017 at 4:03 PM, G0D said:

I made bold the parts that generalize the left, please remember that we have people who identify as part of the left who may or may not fit into the generalization you made and for those that don't this comment would be highly insulting. In light of this we ask that you be more careful about generalization in the future.

 

this is clearly stating that generalizations are the nono. let me show you what sort of text is appropriate, if indeed it is the case that generalizations are fine, but accusations are not:

 



I made bold the parts that accuse a group.Please remember that we dissuade accusational language on this site. In light of this, we ask that you be careful about making sure your criticisms are constructive rather than accusational. 

 

Remeber fellow AVENite, this is a nudge and not a warn. a reminder that your post was too close to crossing the line our ToS establish.

 

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23 hours ago, Puck said:

This is one nudge. Unless you have noticed a pattern, I would question being so certain of mass changes based on one nudge.

 

Any policy changes are either announced in the Announcements forum or declassed right away. I assure you that you will find no new policies in this regard

don't forget that new mods are a policy change. mods interpret the policy, a new one means a new interpretation influencing mod behavior overall, even if only subtly. 

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10 hours ago, G0D said:

The mods seem not to care that their actions lead to people leaving. 

in fact, it's what they w ant to happen. they don't want people who are acertain way, so says the tos. this is what a tos is for. to segregate out the people you dislike. to passive aggressively get them to leave - and give you an excuse to force em out to if you so feel lik eit. 

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7 hours ago, ChillaKilla said:

And belittling is now a method of endearment? News to me :rolleyes: 

is there any way to disagree with someone without being rude to them? this is the nature of disagreement. inherently, all disagreement is a personal insult. or instead - you could be more liberal - and realize that disagreement is healthy way to find new ideas. 

 

this is not meant to target you chilla, it is just I am piggybacking your words to show where mine apply. your post is just an example I'm showcasing to segway into a certain point I wanna make. 

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6 minutes ago, Teagan1 said:

is there any way to disagree with someone without being rude to them?

Yep. It's called common courtesy (in that way it seems to have something in common with common sense). :lol: 

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6 hours ago, Puck said:

"illogical, intolerant, uncompromising, and lacks understanding"

why do you not read: "they do not make any sense to me, I don't feel like I can exist with their beliefs, and I am afraid that they would reject me" but instead read some kind of personal attack? 

 

 

if anything you are being intollerant of grammatical choices. of course we're going to declare our opponents are behaving a certain way than say "i feel" - we are humans, and we are embarrassed about revealing the intimacy of our emotions. 

 

this is the problem with this whole "ban personal attacks" issue. caps locked for emphasis of point, not intending to appear yelling. WE ARE EMOTIONAL HUMANS WHO ARE NATURALLY INCLINED NOT TO MAKE OURSELVES VULNERABLE. BY PERSECUTING CERTAIN MANNER OF SPEECH, THE AVEN POLICIES ARE ACTIVELY SHAMING ITS MEMBERS. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Teagan1 said:

is there any way to disagree with someone without being rude to them? this is the nature of disagreement. inherently, all disagreement is a personal insult. or instead - you could be more liberal - and realize that disagreement is healthy way to find new ideas. 

I respectfully disagree. I believe one can be fairly respectful in one's disagreement.

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6 hours ago, Puck said:

This seems like a flaw in thinking. How can anyone critique what another says if they can't let another person know if what they said sounds bad?

What? wait what? this is what We're saying to the mods. now a mod is saying it to us??? I'm really confused now! 

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6 hours ago, CaptainYesterday said:

Ideas are voluntary.  

i don't really agree with that. we humans are much more machines than we dare to consider. we feel compelled by our thoughts. we feel hurt because someone said something mean, and struggle to overcome that fear. we feel compelled to rebel against the authorities we don't like, and can't just move on with our lives trying the best to coexist in a hostile envorinment to our way of life. we like cheese and so eat it, saying it's what we like, thinking we have a choice and are making it when we're slave to what tastes good to us in reality. 

 

now, of course, I do believe we do exercise choice. but my point is, that we don't have as much self-control as any of us believe we do. we have less of it than we think. so, ideas are not so much a choice, because we can't just say "oh look I keep getting angry when this idea is contested, maybe I should have a different idea so I Stop being angry" no we never do that. 

 

and the other thing - we hugely are influenced by what we're exposed to. a christain grows up with christain doctrine, a jewish person with jewish doctrine. sometimes sure, someone changes - but if we trully had full choice, you'd surely see it more often! no, we are what we "eat" when it comes to ideas. 

 

maybe it holds that a person cannot change their skin color, or their facial structure - or their height - or their country of origin. but it is just a different level of difficult. there are surgeries, there are cases of skin color purposeful change. it's just a lot more difficult - and socially rejected - than changing other things - but changing your beliefs is still a difficult thing to do. even if you WANT to change your beliefs, it takes years of practice to become as AUTHENTIC with your new ones as others appear. and if it gets too embarrassing - or difficult - you may very well return to your old beliefs.

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17 minutes ago, daveb said:

Yep. It's called common courtesy (in that way it seems to have something in common with common sense). :lol: 

honestly this is a little rude. 

 

but I'm mature enough not to let it bother me - 

 

but yes, this is a rude thing you've said here. you were short with me for sure, and shortness is quite rude! 

 

admit it - do you feel even a twinge of disatisfaction with what I've said here? of course, no-one can be trusted to reply to such a demand with honesty. us humans are naturally compelled to meet a challenge. we'll lie to ourselves without realizing just to be a certain way. and - often we are unaware of how a certain emotion works. we get stressed out and angry one morning and yell at our cat, and feel so bad not realizing all the small things that added up that week - clueless to why in heaven's name we'd ever be so mean to darling kittykins. so please, instead of responding to me. think and ask to yourself - do you feel that I'm upset with you? do you feel worried about it? do you feel hurt that I don't share your common interest? do you feel a need to show to me that we are allies in some way- or to prove to me that we are enemies? even if the smallest amount. 

 

inherently, disagreement is rude. disagree with your boss when he gives you commands and see what happens. he tells you, "hey I need you to do those papers" and you say "no sir, with all honors to your request I don't think that's a good idea. It is more efficient if we just focus our efforts on more important matters" or pull a page outa bartlebe the scrivener - "I would prefer not to!"

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Sorry, I can't follow that (by which I mean, I don't understand it). What I wrote was brief, but I fail to understand how brief equates to rude.

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25 minutes ago, BionicPi said:

I respectfully disagree. I believe one can be fairly respectful in one's disagreement.

hm, interesting. but - then why aren't we warning everyone who doesn't speak like this? 

 

and - who is to claim that there's no one who wouldn't be insulted by your words? 

 

while personally, you have shown a manner to disagree with me that I don't feel insulted. The true purpose of my saying that disagreement is rude by nature - was to emphasize the need to allow certain levels of rudeness to facilitate the continuation of ideas. 

 

in this way, you are in fact piggybacking my post and not disagreeing with it ;) you are showing how in your disagreement, we've discussed this more than before. Now could we look to the rest of this thread and not see 8 pages of constant disagreement and, likewise, constant exploration of the ideas at hand? It should not be expected that the purest of respect is needed and all disrespect disallowed. we in fact, greatly benefit by being more lenient in allowing more rude manners of discussion to occur. 

 

 

and - the ideas at hand are, the ideas of how AVEN policy is slowly changing, or perhaps now I suggest, wearing thin on members, to become more harsh than before. part of the story of Bartleby the Scrivener was to show how Bartleby's words "I would prefer not to" started out curious and polite. and in the climax of the conflict, his very exact same words were confrontational and rude to his boss. the boss was infuriated. Whether or not the policy itself has changed - which, I do press that it has, in its interpretation - It also necessarily is the case that the posters have changed as well. both, in my opinion are true. Relatively speaking - the mods are harsher than they were before, because the behavior of the members have changed in various ways. and, relatively speaking - the members are more disgruntled with the mods than they were before, because the mod policy and interpretation as changed in various ways.  so let's move away from blaming either or - and instead look towards finding new ways to adapt our community to better handle the diversity of its people? 

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7 minutes ago, daveb said:

Sorry, I can't follow that (by which I mean, I don't understand it). What I wrote was brief, but I fail to understand how brief equates to rude.

it just does. 

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16 minutes ago, Teagan1 said:

it just does. 

That's an opinion, not a fact, proven by that post. :)

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2 minutes ago, daveb said:

That's an opinion, not a fact, proven by that post. :)

haha I am so sad. this is like.. this is what I am trying to explain. 

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I'm sorry, your explanations leave me baffled.

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Given that Hot Box has served nothing more than AVEN's arsehole, I have no idea why it served a purpose other than people talking shit in the first place.

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Goodness, I honestly wasn't even too enthused to read this thread, but mostly did some skimming. It's funny how I wished there was  TL;DR of this this thread and happened to come across such a post.

 

About the nudges thing, it's kind of grey. Always has been... I mean, in a way it really isn't that big of a deal, I guess, but there are still some consequences to it that does make it a bigger deal than some people would think. It goes on one's disciplinary record and can and usually will be used against them when said person is reported again in the future. With that in mind, nudges can't be appealed... So it's like it won't get off your record for it to be potentially used against you. Especially for a type of nudge that didn't actually break the ToS, but "almost" did.

 

Hot Box, I don't really stray there too much. I actually try to avoid it, though I have considered giving it a chance. I mean, in a way, SC is kind of like HB too. Though, I'm not nearly as active in SC as I used to be since I stopped taking it so seriously...

 

Alright so I have a question about as-ns that I've had for the longest! How do you pronounce it and what does it mean/stand for? Do you say each letter, or...? I usually just say each letter, though one time I tried figuring it out by plugging in some extra letters and it came out as "assassins"... since the word starts with "as" and ends with "ns"... I'm honestly just curious, nobody seems to know the answer...

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2 hours ago, Una Salus Victus said:
 

Given that Hot Box has served nothing more than AVEN's arsehole, I have no idea why it served a purpose other than people talking shit in the first place.

Seems like you have the perfect writing style for Hot Box though... 

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54 minutes ago, SkyWorld said:
 
 
 
 

Alright so I have a question about as-ns that I've had for the longest! How do you pronounce it and what does it mean/stand for? Do you say each letter, or...? I usually just say each letter, though one time I tried figuring it out by plugging in some extra letters and it came out as "assassins"... since the word starts with "as" and ends with "ns"... I'm honestly just curious, nobody seems to know the answer...

Oh, Some people do know the answer. I think the only reason it remains known only to a few is because the answer is so boring that no one will admit what it means.. It is in fact on the site.. There is a thread that explains it, but I think it's one of those things that well, people just keep to themselves. I have asked that we change the name, but people seem to like it, even if it is very silly. Assassin... That would be funny, as that is always what I use as my employment.. No not assassins.... Way, way more boring, if you ever find out, you will wish you hadn't... 

 

[EDIT] PS... Yeah, I think most of us just say the letters A.S.N.S. 

[EDIT2] You could always try and say it fast Arseness. Sounds like a very shitty Scottish lake. 

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I always pronounce it"as Ness"

 

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I really should post an AS-NS thread.. Does anyone know where it would be most appropriate to put it?

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10 hours ago, daveb said:

I'm sorry, your explanations leave me baffled.

wait a minute. can't I report this for a personal attack? it offers no meaningful criticism, and in effect only serves to attack who I am. I can't take this post to mean anything for me except bewilderment and shame.  are there mod policies so low that Daveb's gonna receive a nudge/warn for this?

 

likewise in a chatterbox thread someone just called us all, "you guys suck" in a stand-alone post. ain't that against your tos, or is it only against the tos when the insult comes from an enemy instead of a friend, is that what the interpretation is? people we like are immune from the tos? irritated bystanders aren't relevant since it's between friends?

 

And honestly the most confusing thing for me is. honestly in chatterbox half the posts some days are people complaining/insulting/gossiping about people in their life, often with posts as veiled as "you really are such an asshole" and even tho only half the time people say "(not directed at everyone here)" we all know they're just venting about people getting on their nerves in real life. fuck, sometimes it's mods saying these things! shouldn't you mods go and warn everyone of those posts? or are personal attacks a-ok as long as it's gossip behind someone's back instead of to their face? 

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31 minutes ago, Teagan1 said:
 

wait a minute. can't I report this for a personal attack? it offers no meaningful criticism, and in effect only serves to attack who I am. I can't take this post to mean anything for me except bewilderment and shame.  are there mod policies so low that Daveb's gonna receive a nudge/warn for this?

 

likewise in a chatterbox thread someone just called us all, "you guys suck" in a stand-alone post. ain't that against your tos, or is it only against the tos when the insult comes from an enemy instead of a friend, is that what the interpretation is? people we like are immune from the tos? irritated bystanders aren't relevant since it's between friends?

 

And honestly the most confusing thing for me is. honestly in chatterbox half the posts some days are people complaining/insulting/gossiping about people in their life, often with posts as veiled as "you really are such an asshole" and even tho only half the time people say "(not directed at everyone here)" we all know they're just venting about people getting on their nerves in real life. fuck, sometimes it's mods saying these things! shouldn't you mods go and warn everyone of those posts? or are personal attacks a-ok as long as it's gossip behind someone's back instead of to their face? 

Report them, report them all... I mean that is what these people are doing to us... 

 

The only way to get any change round here as far as I can see, is for EVERYONE to report EVERY minor transgression thus giving the mods so much to deal with, and so many people getting nudges and warnings, that even those who are just brushing off our complaints will see what we mean by getting nudges and warnings for no reason. 

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55 minutes ago, G0D said:

Report them, report them all... I mean that is what these people are doing to us... 

 

The only way to get any change round here as far as I can see, is for EVERYONE to report EVERY minor transgression thus giving the mods so much to deal with, and so many people getting nudges and warnings, that even those who are just brushing off our complaints will see what we mean by getting nudges and warnings for no reason. 

unfortunately, that is the conclusion I've come to as well. the mods are adamant that certain behavior, especially against sensitive people, are out of line. despite the fact that that is in disagreement with my personal principles, it is also my principle to comply with the rules that I agree to behave by.

 

It will be a challenge to both be mindful enough to prevent my own discourse of certain kinds, but also be brave enough to speak up for myself when I am a victim of those discourse. I am certainly one of those sensitive people this site is supposed to be a safe space for. so let me help the mods being this site to such an environment. it is my honor to be of service....

 

 

however, I must express my concern that your incentive is from one of vengeance. I personally do not agree in that regard.

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Locking this pending admod review due to too many reports. Skycaptain moderator site comments 

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