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Lady Girl

Rule Regarding Links Is Added to ToS

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Lady Girl

The following policy will be added to the ToS:

 

Quote

AVEN reserves the right to de-list, delete or ban any links or advertisements to websites known to harass, bully or otherwise antagonize our members. The safety and well-being of the general membership is important and this rule is a pro-active step in creating guidelines for a respectful relationship between AVEN and external websites and communities. This is not meant to close discussion or even disagreement/criticisms of AVEN, but rather focus on the membership and community within.

 

We know that there are people that disagree with AVEN, and we respect their right to disagree. However, we also have the responsibility to take care of our membership within AVEN. If a website has been found to be harmful to our members (through harassment, bullying, etc.), we may remove their links from AVEN and/or ban the posting of links from that website. Note that each case will be considered individually to determine if there are grounds to remove links based on harmful behaviors. 

 

 

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♣Ryan♣

Welp can't link reddit, tumblr,  Twitter, youtube and 4chan anymore

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Lady Girl
4 minutes ago, ♣Ryan♣ said:

Welp can't link reddit, tumblr,  Twitter, youtube and 4chan anymore

You can if it's not a link to something abusive about an AVEN member.

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Cimmerian
31 minutes ago, Lady Girl said:

You can if it's not a link to something abusive about an AVEN member.

Then perhaps this part of the wording should be re-examined? "or otherwise antagonize our members Just about any kind of site or content could "antagonize" members. If the intent is just to avoid bullying or harassment then that's one thing, but that small phrase isn't specific to that behavior and instead is about how members here react.

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♣Ryan♣
1 hour ago, Lady Girl said:

to websites known to harass, bully or otherwise antagonize our members

I take issue with this entire part of the rules. A  website is a big place it might make more sense to say a webpage. If Facebook has a group that is meant to bully Cimmerian. I wouldn't be able to link any part of facebook with this wording. 

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Lady Girl

From the OP:

 

 

Quote

We know that there are people that disagree with AVEN, and we respect their right to disagree. However, we also have the responsibility to take care of our membership within AVEN. If a website has been found to be harmful to our members (through harassment, bullying, etc.), we may remove their links from AVEN and/or ban the posting of links from that website. Note that each case will be considered individually to determine if there are grounds to remove links based on harmful behaviors.

 

This isn't an attempt to ban a bunch of website links. It's a rule to keep in mind if members are tempted to bully AVEN members elsewhere and link to it here. It's to prevent bullies from bringing the specific links onto AVEN. Please keep that in mind.

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Sherlocks
1 hour ago, Lady Girl said:

The following policy will be added to the ToS:

 

 

We know that there are people that disagree with AVEN, and we respect their right to disagree. However, we also have the responsibility to take care of our membership within AVEN. If a website has been found to be harmful to our members (through harassment, bullying, etc.), we may remove their links from AVEN and/or ban the posting of links from that website. Note that each case will be considered individually to determine if there are grounds to remove links based on harmful behaviors. 

 

 

If the link is removed and member's don't know it's banned will they still get punished for it?

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Sherlocks
15 minutes ago, Lady Girl said:

From the OP:

 

 

 

This isn't an attempt to ban a bunch of website links. It's a rule to keep in mind if members are tempted to bully AVEN members elsewhere and link to it here. It's to prevent bullies from bringing the specific links onto AVEN. Please keep that in mind.

Wait so does this mean stuff like fighting on Facebook don't bring it back to here? That rule makes sense but as stated in the original thread doesn't seem very clear. 

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Lady Girl

The first sentence of the new rule is pretty clarifying:

 

Quote

AVEN reserves the right to de-list, delete or ban any links or advertisements to websites known to harass, bully or otherwise antagonize our members.

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just an owl

By "websites known to..." do you mean the website as a whole or individuals on that website? 

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Cimmerian
2 hours ago, Lady Girl said:

From the OP:

 

 

 

This isn't an attempt to ban a bunch of website links. It's a rule to keep in mind if members are tempted to bully AVEN members elsewhere and link to it here. It's to prevent bullies from bringing the specific links onto AVEN. Please keep that in mind.

Understandable, but the wording of the new rule is still a concern, because little clauses do end up being used as justification for action because anything added into the TOS becomes a power for Moderators or something you can be warned for and as such I think there should only be clauses directly related to the action you are trying to prevent.

A little clause like "or otherwise antagonize our members" isn't concrete enough to be useful to either members (as a judgement of what is/isn't going to be an allowed link) nor to the backroom as a way to judge the link.

For example, I know recently some users have had issues with youtube videos being posted in PPS or Hot Box discussions lately. With this clause in the rule it would allow, if one wishes, that political youtube videos be deleted because they are 'links known to antagonize members'. I'm not saying this would happen, but the loose wording does leave this open as a possibility if a future AdMod chooses to read it literally rather than based on its intention.

I would've sworn I saw this kind of situation be a problem in the past but I can't find the old Declass thread about it at the moment for the life of me. =/

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Just like Jughead

If a website bothers someone maybe just not visit it??? I love new rules like this because they're only made when someone whines. So I start thinking who was it. 

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MistySpring

@Just like Jughead If someone were to spam Aven with links to a site that says Just like Jughead sucks over and over for example it does seem like it would be a good idea to have a rule that says that this sort of thing could be removed by Admods. 

 

I like the addition although I agree with Cimmerian that the phrasing at the end there is a bit unclear. I think it'd be better to just stick with 'bullying and harassment of our members'. It could be nothing but I don't think it'd hurt to look it over anyhow. 

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Guest 222
5 hours ago, just an owl said:

By "websites known to..." do you mean the website as a whole or individuals on that website? 

 

for example:

if there's an aven member hate blog at  "dundundun.tumblr.com" or "dundundun.webs.com" all of tumblr or webs.com wouldn't be banned but the site where the blogs are would. If there was a forum that wanted to post lots of hateful stuff about some aven members and was well known for that, for example, that would be something you couldn't link.

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Kyon.

I find it extremely unfair that there's a rule on Links. 

 

Why is there no such restriction on Zeldas? Or Ganondorfs?

 

This is simply unacceptable. I won't stand for it. So I'm sitting down.

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Yato

suspicious_o_226823.jpg

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Jayce
47 minutes ago, Kyon. said:

I find it extremely unfair that there's a rule on Links. 

 

Why is there no such restriction on Zeldas? Or Ganondorfs?

 

This is simply unacceptable. I won't stand for it. So I'm sitting down.

We might aswell include the entire interwebs too  if they decide to restrict Zelda or Ganondorf :D

 

On a serious note: I think the post could be phrased better, for example: If a site is created specifically to antagonise members of Aven.If i read the current post right, then it looks like Admods just expanded their area to the entire interwebs..wich is kinda awkward tbh.

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Puck

I think most people who are reading this are getting the right idea. The aim is to focus on links that specifically bully/harass/antagonize our specific members pretty much by name. We won't ban links to all tumblr just because one blog hates on our members, just that one blog.

 

So, if someone makes a site called Puck-is-the-worst-mod-and-frankly-user-and-smells-like-sewer-rat.com where it just listed things about how terrible I am as a person and evidence towards my oder being horrid, the link would be looked at by admods and possible decided to be taken down.

 

If there was a tumblr made called Puck-is-an-idiot-and-their-profile-picture-is-too-cool-for-them.tumblr.com (or whatever the URL for tumblrs are) and it just posted things trying to show that I was dumb and how cool The Lion King was, that blog BUT not all of tumblr would be looked at to see if it was worth removing links.

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Serran
5 minutes ago, Puck said:

I think most people who are reading this are getting the right idea. The aim is to focus on links that specifically bully/harass/antagonize our specific members pretty much by name. We won't ban links to all tumblr just because one blog hates on our members, just that one blog.

 

So, if someone makes a site called Puck-is-the-worst-mod-and-frankly-user-and-smells-like-sewer-rat.com where it just listed things about how terrible I am ad a person and evidence towards my oder being horrid, the link would be looked at by admods and possible decided to be taken down.

 

If there was a tumblr made called Puck-is-an-idiot-and-their-profile-picture-is-too-cool-for-them.tumblr.com (or whatever the URL for tumblrs are) and it just posted things trying to show that I was dumb and how cool The Lion King was, that blog BUT not all of tumblr would be looked at to see if it was worth removing links.

Exactly this.

 

Also, just an added note: Each site would have to be voted on by the team on a case-by-case basis. As of yet, none have been. This rule is mostly to fill a gap we found when discussing issues surrounding our users being linked to content off-site that bullies them. 

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Guest 222
1 hour ago, Kyon. said:

I find it extremely unfair that there's a rule on Links. 

 

Why is there no such restriction on Zeldas? Or Ganondorfs?

 

This is simply unacceptable. I won't stand for it. So I'm sitting down.

ANARCHY

tumblr_njp4sqmLCG1r7sijxo1_500.gif

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deltaX

I have a question about this rule.  I was always under the impression that linking to something that broke the ToS was equivalent to breaking the ToS on AVEN directly.  I could probably find several old declass threads where this principle was used, or at least meantioned.  Since bullying and harrassment are already against the ToS, is this just an attempt to formalize a rule that was previously unofficial, or did anything actually change? 

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Puck
2 hours ago, deltaX said:

I have a question about this rule.  I was always under the impression that linking to something that broke the ToS was equivalent to breaking the ToS on AVEN directly.  I could probably find several old declass threads where this principle was used, or at least meantioned.  Since bullying and harrassment are already against the ToS, is this just an attempt to formalize a rule that was previously unofficial, or did anything actually change? 

You're right, ToS does cover links that bully/harass/antagonize already. Some admods, however, were concerned that there might be some sites that were linking not to the bullying content, but easily leading users to it. What this gives AVEN power to do is say any links or advertisements from a site known to have harassing material (even if a user posts a link from there that is not harassing) can be taken down.

 

So, to use one of my previous examples again, the blog Puck-is-an-idiot-and-their-profile-picture-is-too-cool-for-them.tumblr.com I said also had content about how cool The Lion King was. If the site posted a blog about only how great The Lion King was without mentioning me (while still having other posts intended to bully me), users may still be asked not to post that link.

 

For another example, if there was a website called Super-Happy-Stuff.com which posted a bunch of happy memes but ALSO had a tab called "Puck Sucks Corner!" admods might ask for that entire site not to be linked to or advertised on AVEN.

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deltaX
2 hours ago, Puck said:

You're right, ToS does cover links that bully/harass/antagonize already. Some admods, however, were concerned that there might be some sites that were linking not to the bullying content, but easily leading users to it. What this gives AVEN power to do is say any links or advertisements from a site known to have harassing material (even if a user posts a link from there that is not harassing) can be taken down.

 

So, to use one of my previous examples again, the blog Puck-is-an-idiot-and-their-profile-picture-is-too-cool-for-them.tumblr.com I said also had content about how cool The Lion King was. If the site posted a blog about only how great The Lion King was without mentioning me (while still having other posts intended to bully me), users may still be asked not to post that link.

 

For another example, if there was a website called Super-Happy-Stuff.com which posted a bunch of happy memes but ALSO had a tab called "Puck Sucks Corner!" admods might ask for that entire site not to be linked to or advertised on AVEN.

Okay, this makes more sense then.  I think I understand what type of situtations you're trying to prevent.

 

I didnt really pick up on what you guys meant from the first reading of the new rule though.  Maybe I'm bad at processing things and it's just me, but I personal feel like there might be some alternate ways to word it so that thr intention is more clear.

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Puck
17 hours ago, deltaX said:

Okay, this makes more sense then.  I think I understand what type of situtations you're trying to prevent.

 

I didnt really pick up on what you guys meant from the first reading of the new rule though.  Maybe I'm bad at processing things and it's just me, but I personal feel like there might be some alternate ways to word it so that thr intention is more clear.

No worries! I appreciate the feedback. After all, admods aren't perfect, nor are we lawyers (I think. Perhaps someone is a lawyer and I just don't know :P).

 

I'm always happy to clarify intent and talk about improvements should our additions fall short :) No promise they will happen, but the discussion is worth it. Thanks for pointing out what you feel is flawed about it!

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G0D
6 hours ago, Serran said:
 

Exactly this.

 

Also, just an added note: Each site would have to be voted on by the team on a case-by-case basis. As of yet, none have been. This rule is mostly to fill a gap we found when discussing issues surrounding our users being linked to content off-site that bullies them. 

So.... You are planning to ban whole sites, and not just a link that is bad? I mean I can see the point in banning a link but banning a whole site because of one post? I wonder... I wonder who that is aimed at.. 

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Guest 222
10 minutes ago, G0D said:

So.... You are planning to ban whole sites, and not just a link that is bad? I mean I can see the point in banning a link but banning a whole site because of one post? I wonder... I wonder who that is aimed at.. 

I'm pretty sure it's referring to sites that have made multiple posts antagonizing aven members. Sites with threads dedicated to hate of certain aven members, calling them names, etc. If a site had a topic dedicated to the hate of one aven member for example or making fun of multiple AVEN members and how they debate. 

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G0D

So... As mentioned, 4chan, Tumblr, Youtube, google. Is the "how they debate" a hint?

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Guest 222
1 minute ago, G0D said:

So... As mentioned, 4chan, Tumblr, Youtube, google. Is the "how they debate" a hint?

Whether you like it or not, you know what the rule means :P 

 

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G0D
1 minute ago, SapphireDelvai said:

Whether you like it or not, you know what the rule means

Yeah.... And I am pretty sure how it is going to be applied.. 

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