Changing the view

[MrDane]

I once heard a radio programme, where a couple had an odd agreement. If he did something extra for her, then she would do something extra. His things would be "to paint the living room" and her would be to give him a blowjob. It sounded odd and not very healthy to a relationship. Today I find myself thinking a bit like this, and I dont like it. 

She wants something built in the garden, I am goin to use time and effort to build it to her. I will donit because I love her and we live together and wants to do things to make the other part happy. Her next priority would be something about getting a new kitchen.

 

my own priority would be to have sex and there is a looong way down to the next, most important  thing on my list. 

 

I hate, that I cant pick up a hammer without thinking "ok, you get this. I love you, but do you love me enough to give me more of what I want!"

 

any ideas about how to change the mindset of a frustrated sexual????

 

(if I put more expectation on her, then i fear that our ongoing acceptable, agreement on occasional, scheduled ok for both of us-sex would also be compromised and in the risk of falling away!)

 

 

[Star Bit]

7 hours ago, MrDane said:

I hate, that I cant pick up a hammer without thinking "ok, you get this. I love you, but do you love me enough to give me more of what I want!"

But that's not how the situation is. It's not a "if you loved me enough you'd do this" situation. For you sex is a willing thing so you can't help think it is for others, but for asexuals it's something that's a 0 (not necessarily a negative number). It's like saying "if you loved me enough you'd regularly do dangerous BDSM with me-- or if you loved me enough you'd regularly have sex with another man for me (if you're straight)"; something you have absolutely zero desire to do and may even feel negatively about doing, and it doesn't even have to be a sexual example. It's not something an asexual can easily force themselves to do. Everyone has their compromise limits; both in specific actions and the frequency of those actions. For some sexual people it's easier for them to understand things if they think of their opposite gender partner as gay. "If you (platonically) loved me enough you'd still have sex with me eventhough you're gay." No, it doesn't work like that. Not to be rude, but if anything, it reminds me of a video (link) that would be saying you don't lover her enough; that your love is selfish and thus not love at all. 

 

But most asexual and sexual relationships don't work out. This isn't a situation for everyone. The way some sexual people view sex due to social constructs in its value can change for the better when they're with an ace, or they can become more ok with not getting their desires met/less of their desires met, and this can take time to develop, but some also can't and ya gotta learn when to end things when they're at a dead end. Love can't save anything. The rate your partner has set is most likely their limit; any more and they'd get burnt out on doing something they don't desire. You can certainly always ask, but if I'm right then it really is a dead end. And relationships end due to this all the time. Not specifically but due to sexual problems. Most couples have differing libidos and it's the lead cause for breakups and divorces.

[NoLongerActive1234]

I think that if you do something for your partner it should be because you want and decide to do it and not as a favor exchange...hoping to get something in return. Not unless that is a thing talked about and agreed upon at least. 

It does make it more complex when the other person is asexual because of probably only doing it as a compromise to please the partner. If I were you I'd just not associate the fact that you wish to have sex to you helping her build something in the garden. If you don't want to do it you could say that as well. Depending on how you two deal with this sort of thing....couldn't you ask her if it would be okay to have sex? I say that thinking she is alright with compromising and that you have some sort of arrangement. 

[MrDane]

I agree with both of you. Sex should not be fitted in the same category as other things and not be used as a bargain-thing. ...but that is exactly my point, I dont like it, when that thougth crosses my mind. I do this and then you do that. It should be 

I do this for you because it will make you happy." Since you love me, you probably do a lot of other things, which makes me happy, but I am not keeping score!"

 

it is just like the sexual monster inside growls from time to time! 

[Star Bit]

On 7/1/2017 at 4:34 AM, MrDane said:

it is just like the sexual monster inside growls from time to time! 

I'm certain that's common in mixed libido relationships (i.e. most relationships in general); ace and sexual pairings or not.

[Homer]

I'd like to add that even if you actually thought of it as an 1:1 exchange, your wife probably won't agree on that. Assuming you "trade" painting the living room for sex, you get sex AND to enjoy the newly painted room, whereas she only gets the walls and something she sees as a chore. So it would be 1,5:0,5 in her book.

 

She could also turn your thought around - if you really loved her, you'd just happily paint the walls with no further intention. Plus, again, you get to enjoy the new walls, too.

 

Another thought I had is that the mechanics behind trading sex for services is pretty similar to... well, you know. It would be bad if she felt that she had to give sex to get things done. Note, I'm far from accusing anyone of anything here, I probably can't stress this enough; it's merely a way of thought this could provoke. I did note that you don't like having these thoughts and even though I'm not sexual, I can see where you're coming from.

 

Which leads me to a question. Are these thoughts something that come and go, or are they slowly creeping in, staying and increasing?

 

[NoLongerActive1234]

1 hour ago, MrDane said:

it is just like the sexual monster inside growls from time to time! 

That is quite the phrasing. I'm going to adopt that when the 'dark chocolate monster' inside of me is growling which is quite often lol.

[MrDane]

11 hours ago, Homer said:

I'd like to add that even if you actually thought of it as an 1:1 exchange, your wife probably won't agree on that. Assuming you "trade" painting the living room for sex, you get sex AND to enjoy the newly painted room, whereas she only gets the walls and something she sees as a chore. So it would be 1,5:0,5 in her book.

 

She could also turn your thought around - if you really loved her, you'd just happily paint the walls with no further intention. Plus, again, you get to enjoy the new walls, too.

 

Another thought I had is that the mechanics behind trading sex for services is pretty similar to... well, you know. It would be bad if she felt that she had to give sex to get things done. Note, I'm far from accusing anyone of anything here, I probably can't stress this enough; it's merely a way of thought this could provoke. I did note that you don't like having these thoughts and even though I'm not sexual, I can see where you're coming from.

 

Which leads me to a question. Are these thoughts something that come and go, or are they slowly creeping in, staying and increasing?

 

To answer your question @Homer, usually the thoughts just quickly pass by. It makes me feel a bit like a spoiled bratt. "Havent I done enough now to deserve a good time?" 

...and if we were keeping scores of good relationshippy deeds, then she would win. Not on the romantic parts, but everything else!

 

 

[Star Bit]

No one's owed/entitled to anything in a relationship.

[Sherlocks]

20 hours ago, MrDane said:

I once heard a radio programme, where a couple had an odd agreement. If he did something extra for her, then she would do something extra. His things would be "to paint the living room" and her would be to give him a blowjob. It sounded odd and not very healthy to a relationship. Today I find myself thinking a bit like this, and I dont like it. 

She wants something built in the garden, I am goin to use time and effort to build it to her. I will donit because I love her and we live together and wants to do things to make the other part happy. Her next priority would be something about getting a new kitchen.

 

my own priority would be to have sex and there is a looong way down to the next, most important  thing on my list. 

 

I hate, that I cant pick up a hammer without thinking "ok, you get this. I love you, but do you love me enough to give me more of what I want!"

 

any ideas about how to change the mindset of a frustrated sexual????

 

(if I put more expectation on her, then i fear that our ongoing acceptable, agreement on occasional, scheduled ok for both of us-sex would also be compromised and in the risk of falling away!)

 

 

Firstly that I a very unfair trade. Secondly this is give and take logic. This is more of a trade off and was agreed upon by both parties.

[MrDane]

1 hour ago, Sherlocks said:

Firstly that I a very unfair trade. Secondly this is give and take logic. This is more of a trade off and was agreed upon by both parties.

Many things, in a good relationship, full of love and respect and understanding, comes naturally, but usually still requires some sort of "to-do-lists with name tags on it". It is about compromises, mutual agreements, necessities, mixed with individual needs and abbilities. Some comes with a veto.

[NoLongerActive1234]

It is hard to say how you could change such thoughts from popping up. Being frustrated about not being able to have sex and just the fact that she can't reciprocate in the same way makes sense. Since you can't really ask if she'd be up for sex more frequently...well you could but that doesn't seem like an option, then you need to handle things on your own. How about masturbation, perhaps you could get creative with this? It is not the same thing but yeah...maybe I'm just stating the obvious lol. 

You seem like an understanding  partner and rather insightful so couldn't you just let yourself have these thoughts? Thoughts can just be thoughts and doesn't have to materialse into reality. At least you could have some space to just have inner moment of....ehhh this sucks...then can easier move on with your day. I mean venting is good whether that happens inside of ones own head or elsewhere. Writing about it like you do here doesn't seem shabby either.  

Other than that it is if there is anything you and your wife can do that would satisfy your romantc needs otherwise? What would be romantic to you if you exclude sex?

[Star Bit]

There are assisted masturbation and "secondary sex" options; maybe she'd be ok with that. I'll list them if you want.

[MrDane]

On 2/7/2017 at 11:16 AM, MistySpring said:

It is hard to say how you could change such thoughts from popping up. Being frustrated about not being able to have sex and just the fact that she can't reciprocate in the same way makes sense. Since you can't really ask if she'd be up for sex more frequently...well you could but that doesn't seem like an option, then you need to handle things on your own. How about masturbation, perhaps you could get creative with this? It is not the same thing but yeah...maybe I'm just stating the obvious lol. 

You seem like an understanding  partner and rather insightful so couldn't you just let yourself have these thoughts? Thoughts can just be thoughts and doesn't have to materialse into reality. At least you could have some space to just have inner moment of....ehhh this sucks...then can easier move on with your day. I mean venting is good whether that happens inside of ones own head or elsewhere. Writing about it like you do here doesn't seem shabby either.  

Other than that it is if there is anything you and your wife can do that would satisfy your romantc needs otherwise? What would be romantic to you if you exclude sex?

What i really want is to love and be loved, and obviously to feel it IRL and not just as a theory. 

 

Yes, this is a vent!

 

perhaps the option for romance, intimacy, closeness is only available if the sex is taken out of the equation?

[vega57]

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 1:47 AM, MrDane said:

any ideas about how to change the mindset of a frustrated sexual????

Yes.  Start by changing your beliefs. 

[MrDane]

2 hours ago, vega57 said:

Yes.  Start by changing your beliefs. 

Whaddaya mean? Like...how? 

[NoLongerActive1234]

11 hours ago, MrDane said:

What i really want is to love and be loved, and obviously to feel it IRL and not just as a theory. 

 

Yes, this is a vent!

 

perhaps the option for romance, intimacy, closeness is only available if the sex is taken out of the equation?

I wonder what is romance and intimacy to your significant other? Maybe you are missing a lot of signs and actions that represent deep love and intimacy to her? If you know more what it means to her you could feel that sense of closeness even if it'd be in other ways than what you associate with it. There ought to be some ways you can compromise and communicate what you need for intimacy outside of sex. And yeah perhaps that is true, it could take off the pressure for her if sex was out of the question? It could be hard to feel romantic and close when you have a miss match, having to do an act that doesn't mean anything intimate to you and could even be hard to make yourself do. 
I'm not sure how much it helps to think like this as I assume it is obvious yet doesn't take away the frustration but as an asexual sex never means intimacy or romance to her and never has. That doesn't mean that she doesn't love you or or holds you closest to her heart though. 

[nanogretchen4]

In my opinion if on some level you are doing these projects for your wife in the hope that she will give you sex in return, you should stop doing these projects. If you made your wife an open offer to do the building projects in exchange for sex, would she take you up on it or would she say that if that is the price she can do without the building projects or learn to do them for herself? It would be better to offer her that choice up front than to secretly hope for a payment that is never forthcoming. Every time you do this sort of secret transaction, it will add to the debt you feel you are owed and fuel resentment. So don't work on her garden or the kitchen or whatever. Tell her you'd really rather not, and use your leisure time to do something you enjoy. If she really wants the projects done she can do them herself or pay honest money to hire someone to do them for her.

[Star Bit]

This may help:

 

There are many types of sex; there's oral, hand jobs, foot jobs, anal fingering, sex toys (there are ones for men), dry humping, clothed hand jobs, thrusting anywhere else on the body, and male genitals being stimulated between makeshift crevices (butt cheeks, breasts, thighs, armpit, etc.). You can also have “secondary sex/assisted masturbation” with your partner; i.e. phone sex, cybersex, sexting, simultaneous masturbation, masturbating to your partner doing something sexy, or masturbating while you do types of foreplay/fetishes (e.g. kiss, lick, bite, grope, massage, facesitting, stimulate nipples, ‘dirty’ talk). I don’t suggest anal sex because it has health risks (two page link) and can be very painful days afterwards.

[MrDane]

you guys are rigth, and luckily I do not think like that all the time. But it boils down to the fact that I want her sexually and she does not feel that way about me and occasionally my biggest dream is to be desired by my loved one.

[Max Payne]

.

[Max Payne]

On 7/2/2017 at 3:23 AM, MrDane said:

"To-do-lists"

If she has a to do list for you, then start demanding stuff in return , stop the "white knight act" and do something be aggressive. Your a man aren't you?

[EMCginger]

Hi all, I am new to this forum. I am a sexual woman and one year into my marriage learned my husband is asexual. I am looking for a support group

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Max Payne said:

If she has a to do list for you, then start demanding stuff in return , stop the "white knight act" and do something be aggressive. Your a man aren't you?

Uhm. That sounds like a path to a very unhealthy and toxic relationship.

 

@MrDane - I think the fact you recognize these are not fair thoughts is about all one can expect from themselves. We all have unfair thoughts at times. But, as you've noted, relationships are not a score keeping thing. I give my partner things because I want to, not because I expect them to give me something in return. Are some things nice to be given? Sure. Would it be nice if I could get some other things I know I can't? Maybe. But, I have to accept them for what they are and only take what they can comfortably give me.

 

My concern is if you continue having these thoughts, you might begin to resent her, even though you can logically recognize that she does a lot of non-sexual things for you, the way you do them for her. So, perhaps it might help if you keep a journal and write down all the things she does for you when you start having these thoughts? Kind of a way to push out the negative "she never does anything" for me feelings and invite in the "look at how appreciated I am, she's done all of this just in this week!" ? 

 

And, if you want to feel loved/appreciated in a romantic way, talking to her about the non-sexual things you two could do to help you feel that maybe? I know, as a sexual, sex is like the #1, but maybe some other things could help curb that feeling of being undervalued? 

[Max Payne]

On 7/10/2017 at 2:56 PM, Serran said:

Uhm. That sounds like a path to a very unhealthy and toxic relationship.

 

@MrDane - I think the fact you recognize these are not fair thoughts is about all one can expect from themselves. We all have unfair thoughts at times. But, as you've noted, relationships are not a score keeping thing. I give my partner things because I want to, not because I expect them to give me something in return. Are some things nice to be given? Sure. Would it be nice if I could get some other things I know I can't? Maybe. But, I have to accept them for what they are and only take what they can comfortably give me.

 

My concern is if you continue having these thoughts, you might begin to resent her, even though you can logically recognize that she does a lot of non-sexual things for you, the way you do them for her. So, perhaps it might help if you keep a journal and write down all the things she does for you when you start having these thoughts? Kind of a way to push out the negative "she never does anything" for me feelings and invite in the "look at how appreciated I am, she's done all of this just in this week!" ? 

 

And, if you want to feel loved/appreciated in a romantic way, talking to her about the non-sexual things you two could do to help you feel that maybe? I know, as a sexual, sex is like the #1, but maybe some other things could help curb that feeling of being undervalued? 

I'm wondering how many times he has played Mr Fix It?

 

@MrDane what are you for romance etc or sex?

[gisiebob]

On 07/09/2017 at 6:34 PM, Max Payne said:

If she has a to do list for you, then start demanding stuff in return , stop the "white knight act" and do something be aggressive. Your a man aren't you?

it appears quite evident that Mr. Dane does not need our help on that aspect of his story.

[Max Payne]

For whoever's land mine I triggered, by be aggressive, it means man up.

 

@Iffy tagging you so you can tell me to rephrase stuff if needed and not trigger any more land mines.

 

@MrDane

 

just some one questions for you.

 

These are are just trivial / hypothetical.

 

1. How many times have you asked her for sex? This meaning no favours or anything of that sort?

 

2.  Could you list her responses when she Dennies it? A different reason per answer please?

 

3. Is this thread dead?

[MrDane]

@Max Payne 3. No

2. What would be a great turn-down is a version of "no, but I do love you" perhaps sealed with a kiss.

1. It has taken me years to go from versions of "i feel like sex, do you?" To "i need sex, are you ok with giving me some, soon?"

 

i am a man. I respect her and do not want her to do things which she is not ok with. I want to be her safe haven and her place to be relaxed and comfortable. 

 

At this exact point she has moved towards more affectionate behaviour and has even initiated sex. 

[MrDane]

On 10/7/2017 at 3:38 AM, EMCginger said:

Hi all, I am new to this forum. I am a sexual woman and one year into my marriage learned my husband is asexual. I am looking for a support group

@EMCginger welcome! It took me and my wife 10+ years to realize her asexuality. You may write a personal message if you want to tell me your story.

[EMCginger]

Hi Mr Dane, 

I have been feeling a tremendous amount of anxiety. 2 years into my marriage, my husband has shared with me that he does not enjoy or get excited about sex. The thought of never having sex or enjoying foreplay terrifies me. I don't only feel loss, I feel terror. I am scared I won't be happy longterm. I don't know if I can do this.... I am embarrassed to talk to my girlfriends.  I have not been sleeping and have noticed some early signs of mild depression. I can't imagine getting a divorce because I do love him and yet, I worry I will be unhappy in the long term. Thank you for reaching out!