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Is it okay to be upset?


Greenstar55

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Greenstar55

So I've been out to a few friends from home for a year or so now, and recently we all sat round the table and kid of came out to each other and we've got more people who arnt straight then who are. So they all know roughly what asexuallity is and aromaticsim is too, but what upsets me if they refuse to acknowledge that's what I am, they make jokes and they keep calling me Bi. I know I am not but  I feel upset that theu won't accept me or should I just ignore it and rise above. Because it really gets to me when I know it shouldn't, it feels like I'm not valid as even my friends will not accept it 

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It's absolutely okay to be upset, "it feels like I'm not valid" is something worth being upset about. 

 

Have you told them that you don't find the jokes funny? Or upsetting? 

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Greenstar55
2 minutes ago, Debaser said:

It's absolutely okay to be upset, "it feels like I'm not valid" is something worth being upset about. 

 

Have you told them that you don't find the jokes funny? Or upsetting? 

Yeah I've tried but I'm always the joky friend so they don't take me seriously and I don't know how else to get it across to them

these people have never really seen me show emotions so I don't want to unleash it on them

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7 minutes ago, Greenstar55 said:

Yeah I've tried but I'm always the joky friend so they don't take me seriously and I don't know how else to get it across to them

these people have never really seen me show emotions so I don't want to unleash it on them

Maybe try preparing yourself for that situation happening, and think about saying "seriously, that's not funny."? It can help instil calmness and conviction when you say it, and they maybe will realise you're not joking. (From experience it's worked for me)

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Not only is it okay to be upset, but you should be upset.  It hurts when people invalidate your identity, especially if those people are your friends.  I commend you on keeping your temper around your friends.  If they're not taking you seriously by talking to them, maybe you should write them a letter?  If you tell them in a way that is out of character and appears more serious, perhaps they will take it more seriously.

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A shard of glass

Of course it's ok to be upset. I personally never came out to my friends or family because I was afraid that this would happen... Plus I personally think that it's not their business.

 

On the other hand, if you catch them up individually, and tell them that these jokes upset you and ask them individually to stop them, it might go some way to stopping it all together. You'd be surprised how easy it is to change group behaviours when you consult individual members away from the group.

 

Failing that, I'd say as a last resort, new friends... But that's a very much last resort option :(

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YES it is okay to be upset about that...that's completely out of line and awful.

 

if you're having a hard time getting them to respect your identity (asking them politely isn't working, asking them forcefully isn't working) you could always try putting the shoe on the other foot for them and invalidating their identities.  you could "joke" around about the bi people being gay but in denial, the gay people as just experimenting and the straight people as closeted and see how they react to that.  if they don't like it, then let them know that's exactly what they're doing to you.  idk- it's kinda mean and petty but it would just be doing to them what they are doing to you!

 

if nothing really will get them to stop, i wouldn't blame you for deciding they're rude people and spending less time with them.

 

:cake: :cake: :cake: :cake:

 

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Yeah it's pretty lame that they're of a minority orientation and still decide to invalidate you. Erasure and invisibility is par for the course for asexuality, but they should know what it feels like to be derided for their orientation. You've got a a good reason to be upset; they're being hypocrites by accepting LBG(etc.) orientations and not asexuality. I'd be mad too; heck, I'm already getting a bit steamed just thinking about this 😤. Like c'mon, how can you accept bisexuality and homosexuality (and others) and not make the logical conclusion that someone out there may not be sexually attracted to anyone?

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6 hours ago, warrigan said:

you could "joke" around about the bi people being gay but in denial, the gay people as just experimenting and the straight people as closeted and see how they react to that.  if they don't like it, then let them know that's exactly what they're doing to you.  idk- it's kinda mean and petty but it would just be doing to them what they are doing to you!

 

Honestly, I don't think you should do this to your LGBT friends... 

 

Like... you can definitely call their behavior to their attention and say something like "How would you feel if I "joked" that you're just gay but in denial / just experimenting etc.?" but please, please don't invalidate their identities in revenge or in a way that they might take you seriously and believe that's truly what you think. It's unkind and vindictive, and shows that you're willing to throw other queer identities under a bus to try push your point.

 

I understand your frustration, though... and it's DEFINITELY ok to be upset and to tell them so - but I think you should try to explain it to them without resorting to the kind of verbal aggression people have heaped on LGBT individuals for decades...

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I'm looking at this from another angle. Does it even matter whether anyone would deem it "okay to be upset"? If everyone on here had said "Heck no, you're overreacting, that's totally ridiculous etc etc", you'd still feel the same way, wouldn't you?

 

Why wouldn't it be okay to be upset? It's the way you feel about something that happened to you. Simple as that. Some people might agree with it, some might not.

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NoLongerActive1234

Of course it is okay, that's how you feel and if they are your friends they wouldn't want to upset you. Like others have mentioned maybe write a letter or speak to them one on one. Hopefully that'd work better and who knows you guys might become closer friends when you've been able to bring this up pointing out that it is serious. Best of luck! PS Love your avatar. ^_^

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5 hours ago, gaogao said:

Honestly, I don't think you should do this to your LGBT friends... 

 

Like... you can definitely call their behavior to their attention and say something like "How would you feel if I "joked" that you're just gay but in denial / just experimenting etc.?" but please, please don't invalidate their identities in revenge or in a way that they might take you seriously and believe that's truly what you think. It's unkind and vindictive, and shows that you're willing to throw other queer identities under a bus to try push your point.

 

I understand your frustration, though... and it's DEFINITELY ok to be upset and to tell them so - but I think you should try to explain it to them without resorting to the kind of verbal aggression people have heaped on LGBT individuals for decades...

first off, i did suggest this only as a last resort.  obviously it's not appropriate to go straight to bullying your friends.

 

the op said her responses weren't being taken seriously by her friends because she's often the jokey friend in her group.  i understand that predicament- i'm a smiley person who doesn't take things that seriously most of the time, and to make it worse, i have this automatic response to smile or laugh when i get nervous or feel attacked, which only encourages people to keep going.  as a result, people think they can take advantage of me or that being rude to me won't hurt my feelings, and it can be hard for me to get people to take me seriously even if i sit them down and try to tell them seriously that i don't like how they treat me.  most of the time, they act this way because they don't realize how bad it makes me feel.  often (especially nowadays) i can let them know how hurtful it is in a calm way by talking it out with them.  if that doesn't work, though, i try to resort to other methods of making them understand me.  if that means putting some of their rudeness back on them and letting them know that how they feel is how you feel when they treat you that way, i'll try that.

 

and i suggested this for everyone in her friend group, not just her lgbtq+ friends.  it's not about the identity, it's about the invalidation (which sucks all around, which is the point of the exercise).

 

i hope it's not a necessary measure, but sometimes the conventional approach doesn't work.  some people (including me) have suggested that she straight-up drop her friends.  this is something i would personally try before a drastic final step like that.

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I always support people's action and thoughts as long as they not hurting/invading anybody and be responsible for their act.

So you can, you are allowed and you are welcome to be upset. It is your feeling no one can take away and modify it. 

It sounds like you are upset because your friends are mocking you or ignored you. My only suggestion is live for yourself. If they ignore you then you could just ignore them too. I know this may break your "friendship" or some sort, but at the end of the day...are they really THAT important to you? If you could think it through you could find much better friends that truly value you and you would weight people's word less to the point they cant hurt you anymore. 

 

If you could live to age 90 you would have 3 billion second of lifespan and there are 7-8 billion people on earth. If you are that worry about what other people think of you, you have to realized that you  don't even have time to listen to every single person on earth. Other people's opinion is not that important even your parent. They don't like or accept you? Then move on. Don't waste your energy to worry on these people.

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9 hours ago, warrigan said:

i suggested this for everyone in her friend group, not just her lgbtq+ friends.  it's not about the identity, it's about the invalidation (which sucks all around, which is the point of the exercise).

 

i hope it's not a necessary measure, but sometimes the conventional approach doesn't work.  some people (including me) have suggested that she straight-up drop her friends.  this is something i would personally try before a drastic final step like that.

Ehh, I stand by what I said. I think I get the difficulty of persuading your friends you are serious when you are a jokey person, but if they don't take you seriously and apologize after you have already told them (in complete seriousness) that you are hurt, that's enough justification to drop them or keep your distance. I can understand re-framing the attack so they can see how it hurts you, but I don't see why one should hurt them back just to prove a point if they won't listen in the first place.

 

My other point is that saying these sorts of things sets the LGBT individuals in a friend group apart from the straight ones and I can guarantee it will hurt them far more. Invalidating straight people does NOT and will NEVER have the same effect as saying something like this to your LGBT friends, which is why I made the distinction. It isn't just about the invalidation - it's about who has been systematically invalidated and how much that hurts.

 

No straight cis person has ever faced being told over and over by society that their identity is not real; while I am certain that every LGBT person has been told they are pretending, that it's a phase or that they should pick a side multiple times by society or people around them - and if they haven't they are very, very lucky. Yes, that means they will understand our POV better, but I don't think that under any circumstances one should say anything like this to an LGBT person, because as I said it seems as though you are throwing their identities under a bus to push your own agenda and get your own back. I understand OP is hurt, and I think they have every right to be hurt and angry, but I would advocate dropping friends who hurt them and who do not take reasonable confrontation seriously BEFORE doing anything like this.

 

Like, I really do get it. I'm not a joker, but because of multiple manipulative friendships and toxic parents I find it very difficult to speak up when I am hurt or upset by something, and even when I do, I'm used to not being taken seriously and told to suck it up. My advice is to drop or keep your distance from people who think your feelings don't matter, especially if you've already told them you are hurt. Don't bother trying to hurt them back - it's not worth it and at worst, they will turn and use it against you if they need to.

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On 6/23/2017 at 3:57 AM, gaogao said:

Ehh, I stand by what I said.

cool!  so do i! :)

 

On 6/23/2017 at 3:57 AM, gaogao said:

My other point is that saying these sorts of things sets the LGBT individuals in a friend group apart from the straight ones and I can guarantee it will hurt them far more. Invalidating straight people does NOT and will NEVER have the same effect as saying something like this to your LGBT friends, which is why I made the distinction. It isn't just about the invalidation - it's about who has been systematically invalidated and how much that hurts.

 

No straight cis person has ever faced being told over and over by society that their identity is not real; while I am certain that every LGBT person has been told they are pretending, that it's a phase or that they should pick a side multiple times by society or people around them - and if they haven't they are very, very lucky. Yes, that means they will understand our POV better, but I don't think that under any circumstances one should say anything like this to an LGBT person, because as I said it seems as though you are throwing their identities under a bus to push your own agenda and get your own back. I understand OP is hurt, and I think they have every right to be hurt and angry, but I would advocate dropping friends who hurt them and who do not take reasonable confrontation seriously BEFORE doing anything like this.

dude, you're preaching to the choir here.  i get it- i'm well aware of the whole "systemic invalidation/oppression" deal and i've defended it on aven before.  i know what the implications are and i agree it's kinda a trash thing to do.  i'm not going to pretend it's some righteous, justifiable thing to do- i don't think i've tried to call it the right thing to do in either of my posts- but i'm not going to blame you if you do it.  i'm saying that if you're going to try repaying hurt with hurt (again, something i would recommend as a last resort) that's how you would do it, and i don't necessarily believe in a free pass from the 'teachable moment' because they're lgbtq+ and experience that in a systemic way.  totally sympathetic to people when they do face it in a systemic way, but amongst friends i'll take the teachable moment over avoiding giving the offense they've caused me.

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9 hours ago, warrigan said:

dude, you're preaching to the choir here.  i get it- i'm well aware of the whole "systemic invalidation/oppression" deal and i've defended it on aven before.  i know what the implications are and i agree it's kinda a trash thing to do.  i'm not going to pretend it's some righteous, justifiable thing to do- i don't think i've tried to call it the right thing to do in either of my posts- but i'm not going to blame you if you do it.  i'm saying that if you're going to try repaying hurt with hurt (again, something i would recommend as a last resort) that's how you would do it, and i don't necessarily believe in a free pass from the 'teachable moment' because they're lgbtq+ and experience that in a systemic way.  totally sympathetic to people when they do face it in a systemic way, but amongst friends i'll take the teachable moment over avoiding giving the offense they've caused me.

Dude ok, if you get why it's offensive and disagree with me then fine? I've just been explaining why I genuinely feel that it's not okay under any circumstances to joke about these things because I don't think it's ok to implicitly invalidate other LGBT+ identities just to prove your point, even if you aren't being serious. As I said, I'm not for giving people a free pass to invalidate you - I just think if you are going to say any of these potentially hurtful things I'd make it clear you're drawing an equivalency by saying "what you are saying is exactly like / how would you feel if i said .... " because that's what it is, and I'd drop them if they don't get it at that point.

 

Anyway, the point is here that we obviously disagree and I disapprove of these methods because I'd rather stop being friends with people if they are repeatedly invalidating me and not respecting my boundaries instead of invalidating them back jokingly in order to "teach" them a lesson by hurting them intentionally, but it's not like I'm forcing you or anyone else to stop doing that kind of thing to make a point. Maybe it preserves your friendships but obviously everyone has different boundaries. I don't really blame a person for doing this and telling LGBT "friends" outright that their sexuality isn't real, I understand it's frustrating. I'm just explaining why it's a seriously shitty thing to do imho for the reasons you clearly already know about.

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On 6/27/2017 at 4:17 AM, gaogao said:

Dude ok, if you get why it's offensive and disagree with me then fine? I've just been explaining why I genuinely feel that it's not okay under any circumstances to joke about these things because I don't think it's ok to implicitly invalidate other LGBT+ identities just to prove your point, even if you aren't being serious. As I said, I'm not for giving people a free pass to invalidate you - I just think if you are going to say any of these potentially hurtful things I'd make it clear you're drawing an equivalency by saying "what you are saying is exactly like / how would you feel if i said .... " because that's what it is, and I'd drop them if they don't get it at that point.

 

Anyway, the point is here that we obviously disagree and I disapprove of these methods because I'd rather stop being friends with people if they are repeatedly invalidating me and not respecting my boundaries instead of invalidating them back jokingly in order to "teach" them a lesson by hurting them intentionally, but it's not like I'm forcing you or anyone else to stop doing that kind of thing to make a point. Maybe it preserves your friendships but obviously everyone has different boundaries. I don't really blame a person for doing this and telling LGBT "friends" outright that their sexuality isn't real, I understand it's frustrating. I'm just explaining why it's a seriously shitty thing to do imho for the reasons you clearly already know about.

cool cool, good chat.

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