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RoseGoesToYale

Driving culture doesn't make sense

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Yato
19 minutes ago, Retrobot said:

"affordable"?

Pffft hahaha. Food is barely affordable for me, I can't even save up enough to see my cardiologist.

Cars were far more cheaper only like 50 years ago. The costs have been artificially inflated due to salvaging metal and used cars. Talk to anyone over 50, and they'll tell you stories of buying practically brand new cars for 300 dollars. 

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Busrider
7 minutes ago, Maou-sama said:

Cars were far more cheaper only like 50 years ago. The costs have been artificially inflated due to salvaging metal and used cars. Talk to anyone over 50, and they'll tell you stories of buying practically brand new cars for 300 dollars. 

AFAIK your Yankee $$s aren't what they used to be either? - For historical value comparisons sticking to the Mars bar index would make a lot of sense.

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Woodworker1968
8 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Driving culture makes perfect sense because cars are awesome and driving is the most fun thing you can do (with or without clothes on). Getting a driving licence and cars (plural) is the only actual goal I've ever had (and still is), and luckily I achieved both before 20 :D

For me, driving has always been more practical. How are you going to go out, buy food and stuff, and bring it all home? On the bus? A car (or even better, a van) does that, plus it's your own tiny room away from home. You can drive out to an undeveloped area and blast the stereo as loud as it will go, or talk on your mobile 2-way radio, without your neighbors complaining about noise or interference.

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Fioryn

I really hate cars and driving.  There is a sense of freedom that comes with being able to go literally anywhere, but I'm not sure it's worth it. Every time I drive somewhere, I feel like I'm polluting my city even more than it already is. And besides that, I'm not too excited about my chances of being in a car wreck in my lifetime, either. I wish there was another option for getting to work, the grocery store, etc.

 

Unfortunately, like many US cities, there isn't an efficient bus system here that can take me everywhere I need to go. (This also isn't a safe place to walk, either.) I take the bus to my classes, but that's because they're less than 5 miles away. It's almost impossible to commute farther than that by bus here. The bus system isn't reliable enough. 

 

I'm hoping that more efficient transportation options are found in the future. For now, I'm just going to try to move to a more pedestrian-friendly city when I get the chance. 

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Perspektiv

Budget monthly, because unexpected things happen. 



 

You are kinda making the argument you should not do something because it costs money.

 

Well, no. But that you should be mindful to spend within your means. Many want to live outside of their means.

 

Ideally, you have food money, entertainment money, bills money, and emergency money--or savings deducted. Things will always go awry, but if you're good with your money, you should have some saved aside for a rainy day, which wouldn't affect your budgeting.

 

If you don't, you'd be best off budgeting weekly, to be honest.

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coyote55
2 hours ago, Maou-sama said:

Cars were far more cheaper only like 50 years ago. The costs have been artificially inflated due to salvaging metal and used cars. Talk to anyone over 50, and they'll tell you stories of buying practically brand new cars for 300 dollars. 

Also, today's cars are far more complex and last much longer than 50 years ago, which has made both new and used cars more expensive to buy. Wasn't unusual for my high school friends to buy their first car for $100 or less. It was usually at death's door, but got them around for awhile.

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Yato
5 minutes ago, coyote55 said:

Also, today's cars are far more complex and last much longer than 50 years ago, which has made both new and used cars more expensive to buy. Wasn't unusual for my high school friends to buy their first car for $100 or less. It was usually at death's door, but got them around for awhile.

It is arguably the same. Cars just got more compact, with more gadgets. You are actually paying for safety, and not so much the engine etc with new cars. Regulations are a bitch. 

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Skycaptain

If you think it's bad in the USA, come to Britain, where roads, pavements (sidewalks) are much narrower, traffic generally moves faster despite high traffic volumes. 

 

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Busrider
9 hours ago, coyote55 said:

today's cars are far more complex and last much longer than 50 years ago,

Very questionable. - Not the complexity, but Mercedes made awesome body work in the late 60s but recently RV builders switched over to FIAT since Merc vans show rust as soon as the lease is over. 

My own wheelset is 6 years old. Yesterday when I took of at a friend's the electric starter just clicked. Can you imagine the joy of operating garage ticket machines and similar with a broken side window opening motor? How happy are you when the rotted away hydraulic beam adjustment of your 800Euro ride causes road worthiness check failure and would mean a 1k4 bill to be replaced? 

Does it really matter if an engine will last 20+ years of your annual commuting? 

Vehicles should be cheap, in the light of your income*. The cost to operate them BTW too.

*= Clarifying: If it takes you 5+x months to earn a toy, it aint no fun to wager it. As soon as you feel urged to insure your ride against yourself, you are pretty screwed.

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Anthracite_Impreza
5 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

If you think it's bad in the USA, come to Britain, where roads, pavements (sidewalks) are much narrower, traffic generally moves faster despite high traffic volumes. 

 

I like Morocco's solution myself; a clear area of dirt is provided but everyone is free to drive/walk/ride camels wherever they please ;) 

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Yato
1 hour ago, Busrider said:

Very questionable. - Not the complexity, but Mercedes made awesome body work in the late 60s but recently RV builders switched over to FIAT since Merc vans show rust as soon as the lease is over. 

My own wheelset is 6 years old. Yesterday when I took of at a friend's the electric starter just clicked. Can you imagine the joy of operating garage ticket machines and similar with a broken side window opening motor? How happy are you when the rotted away hydraulic beam adjustment of your 800Euro ride causes road worthiness check failure and would mean a 1k4 bill to be replaced? 

Does it really matter if an engine will last 20+ years of your annual commuting? 

Vehicles should be cheap, in the light of your income*. The cost to operate them BTW too.

*= Clarifying: If it takes you 5+x months to earn a toy, it aint no fun to wager it. As soon as you feel urged to insure your ride against yourself, you are pretty screwed.

Buy used cars. If you want the most bare bones cars I can think of. Get a Toyota Tercel, or a Venza.

 

I missed my opportunity to buy a brand new 1997 Tercel, with only 25k miles on it. :( It was only 5k. 

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Busrider

I'm not familiar with the Toyotas you mentioned but indeed sad that sane low level technology as seen in a 2CV (a by now no longer affordable classic) for example, got extinguished. - The car problems I mentioned were build roughly 25 years ago too. 

As nice as some electronics in ignition or fuel injection can be (as long as they are working) I'd love to see way more maintenance friendly constructions. - Why waste 2 hours struggling with plastic parts to change a spark plug? How awesome are half a million km on an Audi engine when you had to pay 2 grand or more for water pumps and toothed belts on that way?

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coyote55
11 hours ago, coyote55 said:

Also, today's cars are far more complex and last much longer than 50 years ago, which has made both new and used cars more expensive to buy.

I should have qualified my statement. There are still poorly made examples that buck the trend, and repair costs have spiraled as cars have grown more complex. An unreliable car is as frustrating as ever!  Given an average level of owner care, though, vehicles do - in general - tend to last longer now than 50 years ago. Improvements in rustproofing, engine oils, and engine technology have been leading factors. In the 1970s it was very rare to see a 10 year old car still on the road; now it's common.

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StormySky

Each second behind the wheel I'm plagued with terrible guilt of being responsible for anyone in the car with me. I'm not cognizant of "risks" and "hazards" and I often have trouble percieving and/or avoiding danger. I can kind of use a bit of common sense to tell what could cause a crash if I try hard enough, but I lack that defensive and easily reactable mindset. I don't know why I don't sense danger like a normal human. I'm 16 and everyone always pressures and yells at me when I show disinterest in driving. "You're a tough adventure person! Why are you crying? You know you have to do this!" All the shame and guilt causes me to tear up sometimes. I can't be responsible for the death of another. 

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Yato
3 minutes ago, StormySky said:

Each second behind the wheel I'm plagued with terrible guilt of being responsible for anyone in the car with me. I'm not cognizant of "risks" and "hazards" and I often have trouble percieving and/or avoiding danger. I can kind of use a bit of common sense to tell what could cause a crash if I try hard enough, but I lack that defensive and easily reactable mindset. I don't know why I don't sense danger like a normal human. I'm 16 and everyone always pressures and yells at me when I show disinterest in driving. "You're a tough adventure person! Why are you crying? You know you have to do this!" All the shame and guilt causes me to tear up sometimes. I can't be responsible for the death of another. 

Ya know, as long as you don't text and drive and make sure everyone buckles up every time. It should be fine. The passengers actually have more protection than the driver usually. (No steering wheel to crash into). If you ever drive into water though, roll down the windows asap, or open the doors. 

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♣Ryan♣

Driving relaxes me, I like it. It is a simple task that allows my mind to go into a peaceful state, while achieving a simple goal of going somewhere.

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Pramana

I would say that driving culture doesn't make sense but that car culture does make sense. Public transit can replace an SUV, but it can't replace a Fiat 124 Spider Abarth.

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Yato
10 hours ago, Pramana said:

I would say that driving culture doesn't make sense but that car culture does make sense. Public transit can replace an SUV, but it can't replace a Fiat 124 Spider Abarth.

My prius is cheaper than public transport (when its paid off). And I can go wherever whenever

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Woodworker1968

I'd never need to drive to shop if there were networks of little subterranean miniature computerized trains that could deliver the stuff I buy...

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Skycaptain

My job involves getting paid to drive, the more and faster miles I do the more I earn :P:wub:

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Gloomy

I found out today the drivers in the metropolitan area I live in were ranked amongst the worst drivers in the US. I'm stuck on the road with these people every day. Oh well, still beats waiting for the bus.

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Busrider
1 hour ago, Maou-sama said:

My prius is cheaper than public transport (when its paid off). And I can go wherever whenever

Wonderful! and the 31K5 Euro starting price grow on trees? - I hope you re-stash them under your pillow during the 15 years you get out of your current car?

Just for fun I crunched my local numbers: 1 year of bus pass 782 Euro.vs. beat up family monster tax & insurance 400 Euro. mandatory safety check, minor repair / maintenance 300 Euro 6000km of gas 691 Euro, replacement savings (ultra optimistic 200 Euro) that 's 1k6 in the end. 

Numbers look better for my Honda: Taxfree, 18 Euro insurance 153,6 Euro gas. if it lasts 10 years: 220 Euro replacement savings, leaving me 391 for repairs and maintenance. - That seems doable. Running my urban errands on a CUB is comparable to public transport and saves 50% of commuting time to work. I wouldn't like to drive a car into town where I'd face endless walks between free parking (that I'd still have to hunt down) and my destinations. Some crazy neighbors hold cars and additional bus passes. I don't see that much value in the additional potential of a car and rather ride my behind sore when I want to travel to distant destinations.

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Snao Cone

*thinks about how great it is to enjoy fresh air, not be stuck in traffic, get healthy exercise, save a ton of money, and not have to stop for gas*

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Yato
50 minutes ago, Busrider said:

Wonderful! and the 31K5 Euro starting price grow on trees? - I hope you re-stash them under your pillow during the 15 years you get out of your current car?

Just for fun I crunched my local numbers: 1 year of bus pass 782 Euro.vs. beat up family monster tax & insurance 400 Euro. mandatory safety check, minor repair / maintenance 300 Euro 6000km of gas 691 Euro, replacement savings (ultra optimistic 200 Euro) that 's 1k6 in the end. 

Numbers look better for my Honda: Taxfree, 18 Euro insurance 153,6 Euro gas. if it lasts 10 years: 220 Euro replacement savings, leaving me 391 for repairs and maintenance. - That seems doable. Running my urban errands on a CUB is comparable to public transport and saves 50% of commuting time to work. I wouldn't like to drive a car into town where I'd face endless walks between free parking (that I'd still have to hunt down) and my destinations. Some crazy neighbors hold cars and additional bus passes. I don't see that much value in the additional potential of a car and rather ride my behind sore when I want to travel to distant destinations.

Im American. I paid about 18k for my 2015 PriusC Insurace in full for $112 untill its paid off, and I can switch to liability then which is about half that. I'm paid off in the next year and a half, because I financed in big payments, for a short term (which is better). My gas milage is on average 50mpg. It gas a 9 gallon tank that lasts me all month (depending on extra driving, more.) That on average costs 12-20$ a fillup. Maint is free, for as long as warrenty lasts.

 

So after I pay off my car. My monthly costs can be as low as 70 bucks. Depending on insurance and lack of speeding tickets. :P

 

I save so much time, and its so much easier and convenient since I work 2 towns away from home.

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Skycaptain

Round here, a 1.5Km bus ride because you're laden with shopping is £2.60, 

I run a 2013 Mercedes, and it costs, on my mileage including paying for it £0.50 per 1.6Km, and that's including twice yearly inspections, and much higher insurance as a taxi, and several deductible expenses in that. 

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Yato

Yeah Public transport isnt as terrible there. As it is in USA. Only cities have them, and they suck ass. Most things are not in walking distance either. Unless you're in a big city.

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Busrider
6 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

Round here, a 1.5Km bus ride because you're laden with shopping is £2.60, 

A single bus ride here would be 2.24Euro but also get me the 10mls to work. There is a less expensive 3 stops ticket available too. If I had the intension to shop excessively, I'd bring wheels. Be it a 2 or even 4 wheeled hand cart or the good old cargo bike. At apprentice school they had a huge poster: "Never carry what you could roll instead". Wheeled baggage is unfortunately usually made for tiny grandmothers and doesn't fit my size. 

Back to the original topic(s): Transportation cost is unfortunately a huge chunk of nasty everyday expense. I admit that I am not immune against the temptations of great gas mileage and bought the best stock vehicle on my market making something beyond 100mpg. But I guess Dave Ramsey is right when he says "You 'd have to drive that thing to the moon, to save the cost of leasing a Prius instead of sticking to your seasoned redneck-mobile". Enjoy your few cheap & happy months to come, @Maou-sama

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Snao Cone
6 hours ago, Maou-sama said:

Yeah Public transport isnt as terrible there. As it is in USA. Only cities have them, and they suck ass. Most things are not in walking distance either. Unless you're in a big city.

Most of the US and Canada was designed poorly in this regard, yeah.

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Sally

I like driving.  I don't consider driving a "culture", though.  Most people in a city (where I live) drive because they have to, for various reasons.  Some of us like it, some of us don't.  But it's not a culture.

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Woodworker1968

Like many of the things I do, driving is a practical activity, neither a fun one nor an unpleasant chore.

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