Rant about society

[athenahono]

So at three in the morning I was pissed off at the world and this is what came out of it:

 

Reasons why we need feminism or the idea of it before it became the media bullshit it is today:

 The fact that I as a woman am less likely to be promoted over a man with less credentials than I do, especially if that man is married even if I am married and with kids. 
 The fact that the medical professions are only taught biology and how to treat and diagnose things based on a white male's body, almost never a female with varying chest size or varying weights, or a person of color, or a overweight person of any gender or even a child.
 The fact that rape culture exists. 
 The fact that victim blaming exists. 
 The fact that I am told constantly to not walk alone on the street at night. 
 The fact that I am nervous around groups of men.

The fact that a man raising his voice is terrifying to me, since I am afraid I will be harmed even though they are just raising their voice and likely don't mean any harm towards me.  
 Te fact that I can't dress how I want out of fear of being raped. 
 The fact that I can't dress how I want because I will be told "I'm asking for attention." or "I'm being provocative." 
 The fact that catcalling exists and society doesn't understand that it's not a compliment. 
 The fact that harassment is way too common. 
 The fact that no doesn't mean no. 
 The fact that saying "I have a boyfriend." is more respected that "I'm not interested."
 The fact that I as a woman am told by society that I must be beautiful or I have nothing. 
 The fact that it's hard to find clothing that isn't overly sexualized in normal stores and clothing stores unless its fall or winter and even then it's still difficult. 
 The fact that dress codes are sexually biased against females. 
 The fact that a male can walk around with his pants hanging down past his ass and shirts with inappropriate slanders at woman or a woman's ass on the front and not be told to change or be pulled out of class. 
 The fact that if my shorts are mid-thigh or my sleeve slips off my shoulder I am dress coded and pulled out of class. 
 The fact that my bra strap is "distracting"
 The fact that my bra strap showing is compared to a guy walking around with his dick out which isn't logical at all cause bras are undergarments and a better comparison would be the guy walking around with his pants hanging down and showing his boxers.  
 The fact that my boobs are called sex organs when their primary function is to feed young, not be used in sex, thus they are secondary sex organs and shouldn't be compared to me walking 
 The fact that yoga pants on a female is "distracting" while a tight muscle shirt on a guy isn't. 
 The fact that a female can't have a genuine intrests in anyrhing withput being stereotyped. 
 The fact that a woman can't have sex without being called a whore or slut but if she refuse she is called a prude or stuck up. 
 The fact that calling someone iut on something makes me a bitch. 
 The fact that being polite is considered flirting. 
 The fact that when a man shoots women for not dating him, the women are blamed. 
 The fact that the "friendzone" exists. Just cause a girl doesn't want to date you doesn't mean you're "friendzoned" it means she not into you and if you react badly then she made the right choice. You are not entitled to a women. 
 The fact that when a guy gets laid he is praised and if he doesn't than he is "unmanly." 
 The fact that males dominate conversations and overrule women constantly yet still say women talk more. 
 The fact that most ads directed at males sexualize and objectify women. 
 The fact that beauty prroducts only tell you and advertise how to make you look better and not how to treat yourself and make yourself healthy too. 
 The fact that sexual and domestic abuse is more likely to happen to females than males. 
 The fact that males who are abused can't speak up about it "because that can't happen to a male"
 The fact that male rape victims aren't believed or mocked. 
 The fact that males can't show emotions but are treated as hormone filled uncontrollable beasts.
 The fact that males can't wear or like colors and clothes that are considered "girly"
 The fact that a man is called "gay" or a "faggot" for not sleeping or constantly going after girls and isn't allowed to get mad. 
 The fact that those terms are used as an insult. 
 The fact that males are expected to enjoy sports. 
 The fact that males can't be afraid
 The fact that males have to be the big strong alpha and can't be smaller, scrawny and enjoy other things. 
 The fact that males can't enjoy makeup, clothing, hairdressing and "girly things" and can't get those jobs wothout being mocked. 
 The fact that males can't like romance stories and woman are expected too. 
 The fact that suicide rates are higher among males than females. 
 The fact that 70% of homeless teens are LGBT. 
 The fact that conversion therapy exists. 
 The fact that more teens who are LGBT are more likely to commit suicide than other teens.
 The fact that teens are treated as if they don't know any better. 
 The fact that sex trafficking exists. 
 The fact that child porn exists.
 The fact that children trafficking exists. 
 The fact that some porn producers have come out and said they purposely objecify and sexulaize and demeane their woman porn stars as much as possible. 
 The fact that woman are mocked for their job choice; sex worker, prostitute, stripper, scientist, doctor, etc. 
 The fact that demeaning terms and sexist comments are common. 
 The fact that the worst insult a man can be called is something a woman would be called and the best a woman can be is a male's worst.
 The fact that little girls and women in general are raped in other countries and don't even know that they are cause they don't know any better. 
 The fact that religious discrimination among all religions occurs due to the bias of atheism in society. 
 The fact that I have a vagina and a period makes me incapable of decisions. 
 The fact that I have vagina indicates I am not good enough for a scientific or mathematical job (engineer, scientist, doctor, etc)
 The fact that advances made by woman are overshadowed or more credit is given to their male counterparts. 
 The fact that the awful crimes woman have done are made nonexistent when they did happen and while it's bad, we are not pure and innocent, we are human and have faults and bad choices in our history. 
 The fact that asexuality is considered a mental disorder with an asterisk saying aces are ok. 
 The fact that sex is so ingrained in our culture people who prefer celibacy, waiting, aren't interested, are ace of varying forms, and abstinence are all treated as freaks, especially aces. 
 The fact that aces and LGBT people are treated as broken, more so the aces, even by LGBT people. 
 The fact that bisexuality (biromantics too) and pansexuality (panromantics too) are always compared to gay or straights and never understood. 
 The fact that bis, pans and aces and other sexulities besides gay and straight don't get enough positive media representation. 
 The fact that gender identity doesn't get enough positive media representation. 
 The fact that depression and anxiety is at the levels of people put in the mental hospitals in the 50's. 
 The fact that teens are told they have nothing to stress about. 
 The fact that teens are told they are too young to understand their sexualities or gender identities yet are expected to pick a career and go to a college that only gets more expensive every year.
 The fact that my and other teen's experiences in high school and during our teen years are dismissed as "emo", "a phase", "not that bad", etc.
 The fact that "You haven't met the right person." exists 
 The fact that marriage is treated as a ball and chain for men when it makes them more likely to get promoted and makes them physically and mentally healthier while it hurts the woman. 
 The fact that mentally disabled people are mocked. 
 The fact that mentally ill people are mocked too. 
 That fact that both of then are treated as if there's something freakish and not "normal" about them when there isn't. 
 The fact that the term "retarded" is still used.
 The fact that child rape happens.
 The fact that children aren't treated like they can do something (ex: read higher level reading books, read about something they like and something they aren't expected too, play with math and science, etc) and thus aren't able to learn and progress. 
  The fact that "don't hit a women" is being argued by men that it's equality to hit them now cause of feminism. Why are we obsessed with hitting people, if someone doesn't want to be hit you. don't. hit. them. period. 
 The fact that disabilities are shamed and don't get positive media representation.

The fact that people on welfare or are poor are judged for having "nice things" when it was likely saved up for a long time to get so the kids could be happy and then they are told they shouldn't have that because they're poor.

 

If anyone else has things to add, do it. This is just what I came up with at 3 in the morning. I kinda want to make this a rant thread so people can say what they have issues with in society. (This is in the right section right mods??? I have issues sometimes figuring out which section my threads go in lol)

[Mocha Jo]

Excellent and pretty comprehensive list. Good job! Now there is a list (although really long) in front of you, how can you act to change any of that? I don't know, I'm asking. I have become resigned over the years, but I have high hopes for the upcoming generation. May you do better than my generation did. Seriously. I love all of you!

[Flygunn]

8 minutes ago, athenahono said:

  The fact that the medical professions are only taught biology and how to treat and diagnose things based on a white male's body, almost never a female with varying chest size or varying weights, or a person of color, or a overweight person of any gender or even a child.

As someone who has taken his fair share of peeks at medical training and the history of it, I can assure you that medical programs are designed to account for all of these factors.  There are even specialists for each of these.

18 minutes ago, athenahono said:

The fact that when a man shoots women for not dating him, the women are blamed.

Society as a whole from my country and the majority of the countries it interacts with disagrees with that vehemently, and due to the dress code rules you mentioned, I assume you are from one of these countries.  Obviously there are micro-communities that have that disgusting mentality, however I would not list that under society.

 

21 minutes ago, athenahono said:

The fact that males dominate conversations and overrule women constantly yet still say women talk more. 

Did you intend for the absolute?

23 minutes ago, athenahono said:

 The fact that beauty prroducts only tell you and advertise how to make you look better and not how to treat yourself and make yourself healthy too. 

Beauty products are meant for beauty, skin care and the like are meant for that, also ads are expensive and directed to making you buy products, not friendly advice.

25 minutes ago, athenahono said:

The fact that suicide rates are higher among males than females. 

No issues here, but a fun fact to mention is that while male suicide rates are 4x higher, female attempted suicide rates are 4x higher.  I suppose that isn't a very "fun" fun fact.

27 minutes ago, athenahono said:

The fact that religious discrimination among all religions occurs due to the bias of atheism in society. 

Atheism is not the cause of religious discrimination among all religions, there were crusades and the like far before atheism stopped being a non-vocal minority.

29 minutes ago, athenahono said:

The fact that asexuality is considered a mental disorder with an atstrisk saying aces are ok. 

The DSM-V lists asexuality as a disqualifier to certain sexual disorders, it is not considered a disorder.  It is just a lot of ignorant people who believe this.

32 minutes ago, athenahono said:

That fact that both of then are treated as if there's something freakish and not "normal" about them when there isn't. 

While they shouldn't be mocked and should be treated as human beings for good reasons, there IS something not normal about mentally disabled people, that is what not being neurotypical is.  They themselves should be treated properly, their ailments if curable (we have found very few if any mental disabilities than can be cured, but that is not relevant here) should be cured.

36 minutes ago, athenahono said:

  The fact that "don't hit a women" is being argued by men that it's equality to hit them now cause of feminism. Why are we obsessed with hitting people, if someone doesn't want to be hit you. don't. hit. them. period. 

This mostly semantics due to the "don't. hit them. period.", however in a violent conflict, even if the aggressor doesn't want to be hit, you have every right to hit them.  And hitting someone can sometimes be beneficial to snap them out of a mental breakdown.

 

[Mocha Jo]

3 minutes ago, Flygunn said:

This mostly semantics due to the "don't. hit them. period.", however in a violent conflict, even if the aggressor doesn't want to be hit, you have every right to hit them.  And hitting someone can sometimes be beneficial to snap them out of a mental breakdown.

Really? In what reality is it OK EVER to hit anyone. Our society is really falling apart when this simple rule is not being taught. I taught my kids that it isn't ok to hit anyone ever. It didn't stop them from being mad, or even (in my daughter's case) hitting someone. But it needs to be a societal norm that violence doesn't solve anything.

[aceidk]

Just now, Mocha Jo said:

Really? In what reality is it OK EVER to hit anyone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense

[Flygunn]

8 minutes ago, Mocha Jo said:

14 minutes ago, Flygunn said:

This mostly semantics due to the "don't. hit them. period.", however in a violent conflict, even if the aggressor doesn't want to be hit, you have every right to hit them.  And hitting someone can sometimes be beneficial to snap them out of a mental breakdown.

Really? In what reality is it OK EVER to hit anyone. Our society is really falling apart when this simple rule is not being taught. I taught my kids that it isn't ok to hit anyone ever. It didn't stop them from being mad, or even (in my daughter's case) hitting someone. But it needs to be a societal norm that violence doesn't solve anything.

I listed two of these situations in the very quote you quoted...  Self defense should be obvious and @aceidk already provided a link.  If someone has a nervous breakdown, the shock of slapping them can bring them out of it, that is a fact.  In addition, a "precordial thump" is an example of a lower success rate way to restore someone's heartbeat by hitting them.  

 

[Mocha Jo]

A precordial thump is not actually in the same category as "hitting" someone. Hitting as an act of aggression is still not an acceptable alternative to rationality. I work in mental health. Hitting someone is not acceptable.

[Peachyy]

3 minutes ago, Mocha Jo said:

Really? In what reality is it OK EVER to hit anyone. Our society is really falling apart when this simple rule is not being taught. I taught my kids that it isn't ok to hit anyone ever. It didn't stop them from being mad, or even (in my daughter's case) hitting someone. But it needs to be a societal norm that violence doesn't solve anything.

WE all agree that physical violence is shitty, but there's something unequal about treating a female x female scuff differently than a male x female scuff, and that's because the woman in the second scenario is automatically the victim, the lesser, the cow against the wolf.. whereas if two men are fighting or two women, we don't see it that way. Why don't we see it the same? There's something to that argument and you are not answering it by saying, "hitting is bad, end of discussion". 

 

The narrative goes like this: most men are going to be of slight more physically apt than women and because the desired frame of a woman is not that of muscle and strength, she's going to have that as a further handicap against him. Men are trained from a young age to be "gentle" with women because they will be reminded and told that women are inferior in capability. Women will be trained to avoid being physically violent towards men because they are trained to think that they would lose, and men are trained to think they would win. When men and women get physically violent, the woman is likely to fail because her body will fail her. She will also likely lose because the man has the confidence she doesn't. Performance is based on two things: your physical capability and whether or not you think you have a chance. If you go your entire life seeing yourself as inferior, you will be inferior. And if you go your entire life being told that the only person who can protect you from violence is a man, and not yourself, or another woman, you're not going to think that it's something your sex can even do in the first place. When we get upset about a man and a woman having an altercation only because the man threw a punch, what does the tell you about what's wrong with our society, if we wouldn't feel the same if it was just two women fighting, or two men? When a woman is hit she stays down because she was trained to, if it came from a man, and it perpetuates that every time we support the idea that the altercation between men and women is inherently unequal and inherently abusive. It's counter argument to say that while trying to push forward the legitimacy of female mental and physical competence. Fights happen all the time. Fighting is not always abuse unless you think one person involved is already a victim just by being... a woman? Well, how does that stack up for those of us who say that we are not victims just by being female? 

 

 

 

[athenahono]

1 hour ago, Flygunn said:

As someone who has taken his fair share of peeks at medical training and the history of it, I can assure you that medical programs are designed to account for all of these factors.  There are even specialists for each of these.

In most professions it was never taught or wasn't taught well. Yes there are specialists but I have read many cases where a medical professional didn't know what to do or improperly diagnosed someone because they weren't a white male. For example: CPR training is taught on a male body. What happens when a woman with a large chest is in need of CPR, CPR training does not go over that, they will go over a child and a male body, generally  fit one. My friend took CPR training for babysitting and she realized she never learned on a woman's body, only a male's. 

 

1 hour ago, Flygunn said:

Society as a whole from my country and the majority of the countries it interacts with disagrees with that vehemently, and due to the dress code rules you mentioned, I assume you are from one of these countries.  Obviously there are micro-communities that have that disgusting mentality, however I would not list that under society.

In the USA this has happened many times and males all over social media blamed the girl for not dating him. Many posts about feminism or the ideals of feminism hold comments that justify it (Lewis's Law). Just look some up some time, it's actually very true. And yes. micro-communities with awful mentalities will always exist but USA has a pretty awful societal standard. A lot of better countries will disagree with it but the USA is awful, I'm happy to hear your country handles that better.

1 hour ago, Flygunn said:

Did you intend for the absolute?

Studies from various first world countries (third probably have it even worse) show this. Many show that in conversations with the opposite gender men tend to talk more and constantly interrupt woman. I personally have experienced it but I'm rude enough that I interject right back in and actually continue what I was gonna say. Yes it depends on the situations and atmosphere and all that but generally as a whole this occurs. 

1 hour ago, Flygunn said:

Beauty products are meant for beauty, skin care and the like are meant for that, also ads are expensive and directed to making you buy products, not friendly advice.

Yes they are but many ads and the way they are presented is to make a woman look better and not how to take care of herself or tell her this is meant to enhance the beauty that is already there. Thus creating much self esteem issues and such. I personally am victim to this and I know many other girls who are as well. Not to mention what society's idea of beauty is and how unhealthy it is. Thankfully some of it such as a strong, big ass and larger thigh (which are healthier than the thigh gap) are a bit more common but even still, beauty standards are awful and cause major self esteem and body consciousnesses issues. 

 

1 hour ago, Flygunn said:

No issues here, but a fun fact to mention is that while male suicide rates are 4x higher, female attempted suicide rates are 4x higher.  I suppose that isn't a very "fun" fun fact.

Very true. A good chunk of that comes down to other issues I mentioned as well a self esteem and body image issues on both genders but specifically females due to society's image of beauty. 

 

1 hour ago, Flygunn said:

Atheism is not the cause of religious discrimination among all religions, there were crusades and the like far before atheism stopped being a non-vocal minority.

Having grown up in a Christian home I know that a lot of society has put down Christian beliefs and obviously Muslims are attacked and so are many others even if they aren't as common. Atheism dominates science, medicine, technology, etc. I personally am agnostic and even my standpoint is put down. I'm not saying all religions are great or amazing but in America, the place of religious freedom, a lot of those religions don't seem to be getting a ton of that. I have my own issues with many religions but I still think it's unfair. Yes crusades happened and things like that and they weren't okay (The Catholic Church was crazy and still kinda is in some ways) but now that atheism isn't a minority it's dominated things and puts down other religions. In school you won't learn about any religion in any positive light and sciences only teach atheistic views. And students who disagree are told they are wrong. For example my 10th grade Biology teacher hated me because (of a lot of other reasons including the fact that I was quiet and didn't play sports) of the fact I disagree with evolution. It's not okay at all. 

 

1 hour ago, Flygunn said:

The DSM-V lists asexuality as a disqualifier to certain sexual disorders, it is not considered a disorder.  It is just a lot of ignorant people who believe this.

I went and double checked it after you pointed that out and found and updated version of it. Thank you for that it makes me feel a lot better. The points I found before were outdated. 

 

1 hour ago, Flygunn said:

While they shouldn't be mocked and should be treated as human beings for good reasons, there IS something not normal about mentally disabled people, that is what not being neurotypical is.  They themselves should be treated properly, their ailments if curable (we have found very few if any mental disabilities than can be cured, but that is not relevant here) should be cured.

I meant not normal as in the freakish form Yes they aren't technically normal but they are mocked and put down and a huge bias against them occurs lot. I'm lucky my high school is pretty accepting and tries their hardest to accommodate and help the disabled. 

 

1 hour ago, Flygunn said:

This mostly semantics due to the "don't. hit them. period.", however in a violent conflict, even if the aggressor doesn't want to be hit, you have every right to hit them.  And hitting someone can sometimes be beneficial to snap them out of a mental breakdown.

Why is this being argued? I understand self defense, which implies the threat of being overpowered, i.e being mugged, attacked, RAPED, etc.  But why is violence the answer? Why is it that I'm say I don't want to be hit when I'm not doing anything? In a violent conflict I guess I get that but how often does that occur where both parties didn't start or agree to it?

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/equality-can-men-hit-women

http://jezebel.com/5173723/the-double-standard-is-women-hitting-men-ever-okay

http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/06/350587/ (this one is a response to the previous article) 

 

And in no way is it okay for a woman to strike out at men, many woman do without thinking when they are upset, I personally have done this and I try my hardest to control it because it's not okay. My best guy friend says he gets it and it's okay and I tell him every time it's not you need to tell me to stop because it's not okay even if it doesn't hurt you. It's never okay and violence is not the answer to anger or embarrassment or anything. A woman can hurt a man physically and emotionally by hitting them. And a man can do the same and it's not okay either way. And it's disgusting that people, specifically men on social media think it is. (referring to first article). I don't understand why this was even argued. 

 

1 hour ago, Mocha Jo said:

Really? In what reality is it OK EVER to hit anyone. Our society is really falling apart when this simple rule is not being taught. I taught my kids that it isn't ok to hit anyone ever. It didn't stop them from being mad, or even (in my daughter's case) hitting someone. But it needs to be a societal norm that violence doesn't solve anything.

As I said in the previous one it isn't and kudos to you for trying to teach your children not to hit someone. Cause it's not okay. Every person is subject to anger and they may go into violence which is never okay. I applaud your efforts. 

 

1 hour ago, aceidk said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense

Self defense implies being overpowered when you weren't doing anything. Example: Mugging, uncalled for attacks from someone you don't know or physical bullying for example, sexual harassment after the harasser has been asked to stop multiple times (example: https://notalwaysright.com/search/was+bra-ced+for+a+different+response ewhile this wasn't the best response it was probably called for after the teacher didn't do anything and the boy who was way bigger tha her wouldn't stop), rape itself, etc. Self defense is often used as an excuse for something it wasn't necessary for. 

 

1 hour ago, Flygunn said:

I listed two of these situations in the very quote you quoted...  Self defense should be obvious and @aceidk already provided a link.  If someone has a nervous breakdown, the shock of slapping them can bring them out of it, that is a fact.  In addition, a "precordial thump" is an example of a lower success rate way to restore someone's heartbeat by hitting them.  

40 minutes ago, Mocha Jo said:

A precordial thump is not actually in the same category as "hitting" someone. Hitting as an act of aggression is still not an acceptable alternative to rationality. I work in mental health. Hitting someone is not acceptable.

 

@Mocha Jo is correct in saying that a precordial thump is different than hitting someone. It is with the intent to potentially saving someone form their mind and preventing a panic attack (which is not fun to have) while hitting someone is with the intent to attack or harm, not help.

 

30 minutes ago, Peachyy said:

WE all agree that physical violence is shitty, but there's something unequal about treating a female x female scuff differently than a male x female scuff, and that's because the woman in the second scenario is automatically the victim, the lesser, the cow against the wolf.. whereas if two men are fighting or two women, we don't see it that way. Why don't we see it the same? There's something to that argument and you are not answering it by saying, "hitting is bad, end of discussion". 

 

The narrative goes like this: most men are going to be of slight more physically apt than women and because the desired frame of a woman is not that of muscle and strength, she's going to have that as a further handicap against him. Men are trained from a young age to be "gentle" with women because they will be reminded and told that women are inferior in capability. Women will be trained to avoid being physically violent towards men because they are trained to think that they would lose, and men are trained to think they would win. When men and women get physically violent, the woman is likely to fail because her body will fail her. She will also likely lose because the man has the confidence she doesn't. Performance is based on two things: your physical capability and whether or not you think you have a chance. If you go your entire life seeing yourself as inferior, you will be inferior. And if you go your entire life being told that the only person who can protect you from violence is a man, and not yourself, or another woman, you're not going to think that it's something your sex can even do in the first place. When we get upset about a man and a woman having an altercation only because the man threw a punch, what does the tell you about what's wrong with our society, if we wouldn't feel the same if it was just two women fighting, or two men? When a woman is hit she stays down because she was trained to, if it came from a man, and it perpetuates that every time we support the idea that the altercation between men and women is inherently unequal and inherently abusive. It's counter argument to say that while trying to push forward the legitimacy of female mental and physical competence. Fights happen all the time. Fighting is not always abuse unless you think one person involved is already a victim just by being... a woman? Well, how does that stack up for those of us who say that we are not victims just by being female? 

 

 

 

That was beautiful and well put and puts the unfairness for both genders into perspective. And even though this training we got through is true, a woman still can hurt and abuse a man and because of this training the man can't speak up about it. It's not okay.

[athenahono]

1 hour ago, Mocha Jo said:

Excellent and pretty comprehensive list. Good job! Now there is a list (although really long) in front of you, how can you act to change any of that? I don't know, I'm asking. I have become resigned over the years, but I have high hopes for the upcoming generation. May you do better than my generation did. Seriously. I love all of you!

I will try and I hope many people will be inspired by this. I'm often fighting back and people often call me a bitch cause of it. Oh how dare I point out faults. 

[Flygunn]

18 minutes ago, athenahono said:

In most professions it was never taught or wasn't taught well. Yes there are specialists but I have read many cases where a medical professional didn't know what to do or improperly diagnosed someone because they weren't a white male. For example: CPR training is taught on a male body. What happens when a woman with a large chest is in need of CPR, CPR training does not go over that, they will go over a child and a male body, generally  fit one. My friend took CPR training for babysitting and she realized she never learned on a woman's body, only a male's.

There is going to be horror stories and incompetents of every single job, that is unavoidable, however all of these professions require an M.D. and a residency, to get that you will have to not only learn about all of these and you will inevitably learn by working on these during residency.  CPR is not taught on busty bodies because they worry that people will misuse the dummies, though I do agree that female dummies should be in higher production.  Regardless, the exact same processes apply in CPR and most courses tell you this. 

23 minutes ago, athenahono said:

In the USA this has happened many times and males all over social media blamed the girl for not dating him. Many posts about feminism or the ideals of feminism hold comments that justify it (Lewis's Law). Just look some up some time, it's actually very true. And yes. micro-communities with awful mentalities will always exist but USA has a pretty awful societal standard. A lot of better countries will disagree with it but the USA is awful, I'm happy to hear your country handles that better.

Yeah... that sucks, plainly and simply so...  

24 minutes ago, athenahono said:

Studies from various first world countries (third probably have it even worse) show this. Many show that in conversations with the opposite gender men tend to talk more and constantly interrupt woman. I personally have experienced it but I'm rude enough that I interject right back in and actually continue what I was gonna say. Yes it depends on the situations and atmosphere and all that but generally as a whole this occurs. 

I am not going to deny that there is a higher likelihood for men to do this to women than any other context, however I still believe that the absolute does not apply.  I can count on my experiences and thought processes that it isn't an absolute, I generally haven't noticed those around me showing this behaviour (aside from five people that hate all people equally), but I have not exactly been looking and the majority of the people I interact with are not male.

28 minutes ago, athenahono said:

Yes they are but many ads and the way they are presented is to make a woman look better and not how to take care of herself or tell her this is meant to enhance the beauty that is already there. Thus creating much self esteem issues and such. I personally am victim to this and I know many other girls who are as well. Not to mention what society's idea of beauty is and how unhealthy it is. Thankfully some of it such as a strong, big ass and larger thigh (which are healthier than the thigh gap) are a bit more common but even still, beauty standards are awful and cause major self esteem and body consciousnesses issues.

I see, my apologies on the misconception, your wording had me thinking that you meant to say that beauty product ads should be responsible for promoting healthcare and not their products.

30 minutes ago, athenahono said:

Why is this being argued? I understand self defense, which implies the threat of being overpowered, i.e being mugged, attacked, RAPED, etc.  But why is violence the answer? Why is it that I'm say I don't want to be hit when I'm not doing anything? In a violent conflict I guess I get that but how often does that occur where both parties didn't start or agree to it?

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/equality-can-men-hit-women

http://jezebel.com/5173723/the-double-standard-is-women-hitting-men-ever-okay

http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/06/350587/ (this one is a response to the previous article) 

 

And in no way is it okay for a woman to strike out at men, many woman do without thinking when they are upset, I personally have done this and I try my hardest to control it because it's not okay. My best guy friend says he gets it and it's okay and I tell him every time it's not you need to tell me to stop because it's not okay even if it doesn't hurt you. It's never okay and violence is not the answer to anger or embarrassment or anything. A woman can hurt a man physically and emotionally by hitting them. And a man can do the same and it's not okay either way. And it's disgusting that people, specifically men on social media think it is. (referring to first article). I don't understand why this was even argued. 

This is being argued because of semantics, we all know everyone agrees that violence where unnecessary should never be applied (or at least I hope everyone does).  I am confused as to what you mean by both parties didn't start or agree to it.  If both agree to it, then it is odd, but not morally wrong; and if neither agrees to violence, then violence will not occur.  Regardless of morals, if someone is being attacked, violence or threat of violence is an acceptable answer.  You cannot easily reason with a rapist or serial killer before they do something you won't enjoy.  My apologies on having this argument extend longer than it should have, it was purely for the sake of semantics.

35 minutes ago, athenahono said:

Self defense implies being overpowered when you weren't doing anything. Example: Mugging, uncalled for attacks from someone you don't know or physical bullying for example, sexual harassment after the harasser has been asked to stop multiple times (example: https://notalwaysright.com/search/was+bra-ced+for+a+different+response ewhile this wasn't the best response it was probably called for after the teacher didn't do anything and the boy who was way bigger tha her wouldn't stop), rape itself, etc. Self defense is often used as an excuse for something it wasn't necessary for. 

You do not need to be overpowered to be doing self defense.  Under that logic, successful self defense wouldn't occur.

37 minutes ago, athenahono said:

@Mocha Jo is correct in saying that a precordial thump is different than hitting someone. It is with the intent to potentially saving someone form their mind and preventing a panic attack (which is not fun to have) while hitting someone is with the intent to attack or harm, not help.

hit

hit/

verb

1.

bring one's hand or a tool or weapon into contact with (someone or something) quickly and forcefully.

"the woman hit the mugger with her umbrella"

 

Hitting is not dependent on intent, that is why someone can accidentally hit but never accidentally murder.

 

[athenahono]

2 minutes ago, Flygunn said:

There is going to be horror stories and incompetents of every single job, that is unavoidable, however all of these professions require an M.D. and a residency, to get that you will have to not only learn about all of these and you will inevitably learn by working on these during residency.  CPR is not taught on busty bodies because they worry that people will misuse the dummies, though I do agree that female dummies should be in higher production.  Regardless, the exact same processes apply in CPR and most courses tell you this. 

I see your point. Thank you. I apologize for not fully understanding. 

4 minutes ago, Flygunn said:

Yeah... that sucks, plainly and simply so...

America sucks unfortunately and the people as a whole are often narrow-minded and very.... sheeplike.

5 minutes ago, Flygunn said:

I am not going to deny that there is a higher likelihood for men to do this to women than any other context, however I still believe that the absolute does not apply.  I can count on my experiences and thought processes that it isn't an absolute, I generally haven't noticed those around me showing this behaviour (aside from five people that hate all people equally), but I have not exactly been looking and the majority of the people I interact with are not male.

I think it can also be very situational and based on a person's experiences on what they see with this subject too. 

 

6 minutes ago, Flygunn said:

This is being argued because of semantics, we all know everyone agrees that violence where unnecessary should never be applied (or at least I hope everyone does).  I am confused as to what you mean by both parties didn't start or agree to it.  If both agree to it, then it is odd, but not morally wrong; and if neither agrees to violence, then violence will not occur.  Regardless of morals, if someone is being attacked, violence or threat of violence is an acceptable answer.  You cannot easily reason with a rapist or serial killer before they do something you won't enjoy.  My apologies on having this argument extend longer than it should have, it was purely for the sake of semantics.

I'm looking back at that sentence and I'm not sure what I meant by the "both parties didn't start or agree to it"... I think I worded it weird but I don't remember my point. Well then... Yes also self defense is definitely a thing when things are difficult to reason with. I accept you apology, I personally have had friends assaulted and stuff like that and I'm a pacifist and it's very hard for me, though I do see it's necessity in some occasions. 

10 minutes ago, Flygunn said:

You do not need to be overpowered to be doing self defense.  Under that logic, successful self defense wouldn't occur.

I realize my wording wasn't the best again, sometimes I word things in a weird way. What I was meaning to say was that in a case you mentioned earlier, say a rapist or a mugger or etc was attacking you and you couldn't reason with them or you were unable to call for help, then self defense would be occurring. Or the harassment example I provided, even though that probably wasn't the best answer.

 

13 minutes ago, Flygunn said:

hit

hit/

verb

1.

bring one's hand or a tool or weapon into contact with (someone or something) quickly and forcefully.

"the woman hit the mugger with her umbrella"

 

Hitting is not dependent on intent, that is why someone can accidentally hit but never accidentally murder.

But even still, there is still a vast and obvious difference between the two. While be definition is would be called hitting it is not the same. 

[Flygunn]

10 minutes ago, athenahono said:

But even still, there is still a vast and obvious difference between the two. While be definition is would be called hitting it is not the same. 

As a proponent of technicalities, I will always personally stress the importance of defining words by their definitions rather than their popular usage with some exceptions.  I used the analogy for murder simply because it was the first thing I could think of that only works if malicious intent was present.  I do realize the contextual and colloquial differences and agree on that front.

[athenahono]

9 minutes ago, Flygunn said:

As a proponent of technicalities, I will always personally stress the importance of defining words by their definitions rather than their popular usage with some exceptions.  I used the analogy for murder simply because it was the first thing I could think of that only works if malicious intent was present.  I do realize the contextual and colloquial differences and agree on that front.

I see your point and I do agree, definitions are very important. 

[Guest]

I taught my kids that it isn't ok to hit anyone ever.

 

While I agree violence only escalates to more violence, I disagree with the thought.

I believe, that you should always seek to turn the other cheek, whenever possible.

 

However, in some instances, you really have no choice, but to defend yourself. I.E Cornered by three bullies, punching and kicking you, throwing you back down, as you try to leave. Your options are quite limited. Allow yourself to get pummeled, or put up a fight of a lifetime. Some girls face these situations, with regards to sexual assault, far too often in our society, but it is very real.

 

Case in point. A girl I know who was relentlessly being hit on by a guy. She said she wasn't interested, tried walking away--he forcefully grabbed her (pulling her back right in front of him, violently), making it clear she wasn't going anywhere without giving away a phone number. Mercifully for her, she was taught martial arts, but more importantly--the art of walking away (if possible). Realizing the possibility wasn't there, she used her training to break his nose, and subdue him.

 

I'll never condone violence, but I'm sorry--some situations, I.E self-defense, call for it.

 

If the above was my daughter, I'd tell her I was proud of her. Always stand up for yourself.

[Guest]

The fact that yoga pants on a female is "distracting" while a tight muscle shirt on a guy isn't.

 

I love many of your arguments, but this one to me is flawed. Lycra, often when stretched tightly over skin, often becomes see through. There's a reason yoga pants, are considered undergarments. Just because women chose to wear them as outfits, don't make them any less an undergarment.

If it were a workplace, I'd ban both clothing items, and keep things business casual, to eliminate the chance of alienating anyone.

 

The fact that when a man shoots women for not dating him, the women are blamed.

 

Not sure which country you're gathering this one from. Any one I've been to, would be condemning the male's actions, which are sickening.

 

The fact that marriage is treated as a ball and chain for men when it makes them more likely to get promoted and makes them physically and mentally healthier while it hurts the woman.

 

Divorce, is where you get to turn the tables. I otherwise can't say I disagree with the point you made.

[Skipper Valvoline]

It's funny that this thread happens now, I've been building towards a societal rant myself, but from (mostly) the opposite perspective.

 

Firstly, what is this nebulous 'society'? We all complain about how society "expects this, encourages, that, and disapproves of the other" but honestly, why do WE, who MAKE UP SOCIETY let any of this dictate our lives? And what about those on the other side of the fence, who seemingly check the boxes of society's approval? Does anyone think that the skinny girl constantly told to eat more is going to find comfort in a magazine because at least the airbrushed model on the cover has her body type? Is that how empathy works? Why are we so desperately trying to gain society's approval?

 

I just- UGH. Every time I see someone talk about the disadvantages women and other minorities (of all categories) have/will face it drives. me. nuts. Because I am not a damn victim. I am not denied promotion in a job because of my gender (and if I or someone is, then that's an instant lawsuit). I am not afraid to walk at night because I can take care of myself and know self-defense BUT I also exercise a healthy degree of caution and sense because a lot of bad stuff generally tends to happen at night, and it would be smart to avoid being caught out like that (not victim-blaming, I'm talking about PREVENTION). I refuse to listen to any of that crap about needing to be pretty to be validated as a woman in society or other-related bullshit, because where do these advertising companies come off about trying to dictate MY values and life?

 

Like- why let it get to you? Why let all this distant, commercialized, fear-mongering talk DEPRESS your worldview? Yeah, tons of things on that list suck. But there are also tons of things we CAN control. Dress the way you want, it's literally nobody else's business in your personal hours. People are going to talk smack about you, and people are going to praise you. Focusing on just one of those is unhealthy, people need to accept both. Just because the majority may be doing one thing DOES NOT mean that the minority physically CAN'T do another. Men can totally be afraid. Women can totally interrupt others. 

 

This is why I tend to stay away from those circles that constantly discuss the 'rape culture' and 'patriarchy' and 'gender roles' etc. Even though the vast majority of these circles are simultaneously discussing ways to overcome these, to me they're just actually perpetuating them. It's just an onslaught of "why can't [insert group] just do X?" Well, who said they couldn't? How did y'all identify this oppressive force telling folk what they can and can't do? Because I'm only hearing about these depressing 'facts' from the same society that claims we need to overcome them even as they push that narrative of reality further.

You are stronger than you realize. The world can only be as scary as we make it out to be. WE are responsible for our worldview. So if need be, just fuck 'society's' narrative.

[CaptainYesterday]

Why do you think Feminism is needed to address these?

 

From my personal experience, all of the male-centered points are directly harmed by Feminists and Feminism.

[rtlloyd98]

It has been quite the last few weeks is Britain. Most of which has led me to doubt whether I want to live in this country anymore. Here's why...

 

1. Some sadistic nutjob thought blowing up children would get him into paradise. Who the hell convinced somebody that. To go to a concert to kill children.

 

2. Yemen won't exist in 10 years time because of UK/USA.  We get tens of billions of pounds from Saudi Arabia so they can unleash hell on the country. Our government is supporting the murder of women and children (AGAIN!!!). I mean they are dying of CHOLERA and we aren't doing anything.

 

3. 79 people were burnt alive in their own homes because they were poor in the richest borough of the UK.

 

4. The elitist right-wing of the British media and politics pushed a man to attack Muslims as they worshipped.

 

5. WE DO NOT HAVE A PRIMEMINISTER. And we are about to catapult ourselves out of the EU with no targets.

 

WTF is going on with this country. Don't tell me this is going to get better. It's a lie.

[gisiebob]

just wanted to mention that science doesn't work on a belief system, including atheism, it works on repeatability and consensus. take gravity, for example. in science gravity probably works in a very specific way, and on our planet this has been verified and it seems to hold up well with the probes we have sent around the solar system, and it mostly looks correct from what we've looked at outside of our little spot in the galaxy... but not quite? so maybe there's something we can't see out there that has gravity, but it still works how we think it does, and call it dark matter, because right now the very specific way that gravity probably works is doing pretty good for where we are. but if say we get out there and things start 'falling sideways' then thats ok too, we just have to reword the system. we weren't wrong about gravity, but we were incorrect. we had the best model for the environment we were inside of.

 

 maybe it would be helpful to think of science as not the mechanics of how things like a dishwasher work, but our handwritten manual for those mechanics. and it can certainly be edited or incorrect, but it is our best guess at what is going on based on repeatability and consensus. so maybe the idea of evolution is incorrect, but it isn't wrong as the current working model. and you are free to explore where it might not be fitting correctly (and wound those statistics about gender and religion in STEM fields that wounded you!) but you do have to follow the science rules. (which are not perfect but are there so we can get consensus and repeatability)

[Flygunn]

26 minutes ago, gisiebob said:

just wanted to mention that science doesn't work on a belief system, including atheism, it works on repeatability and consensus. take gravity, for example. in science gravity probably works in a very specific way, and on our planet this has been verified and it seems to hold up well with the probes we have sent around the solar system, and it mostly looks correct from what we've looked at outside of our little spot in the galaxy... but not quite? so maybe there's something we can't see out there that has gravity, but it still works how we think it does, and call it dark matter, because right now the very specific way that gravity probably works is doing pretty good for where we are. but if say we get out there and things start 'falling sideways' then thats ok too, we just have to reword the system. we weren't wrong about gravity, but we were incorrect. we had the best model for the environment we were inside of.

 

 maybe it would be helpful to think of science as not the mechanics of how things like a dishwasher work, but our handwritten manual for those mechanics. and it can certainly be edited or incorrect, but it is our best guess at what is going on based on repeatability and consensus. so maybe the idea of evolution is incorrect, but it isn't wrong as the current working model. and you are free to explore where it might not be fitting correctly (and wound those statistics about gender and religion in STEM fields that wounded you!) but you do have to follow the science rules. (which are not perfect but are there so we can get consensus and repeatability)

I would like to add on to this.  Science is always based on observations of our world.  Therefore any theory concocted is based on evidence from our world.  Religion will never be taught in Science as Science because Religion relies on faith (belief based on an absence of data) and each Religion is as Scientifically provable as each other.  The theory of evolution on the other hand has many pieces of evidence to support it from our world and is not taken as an absolute truth, just a highly likely one.

[orangecat]

All the things you rant about are down to earth is about the greed and desire of mankind. Most of them seems inevitable as society were formed by human.

The educated people using politics to embody their hidden-beast-thoughts while lesser advantage people using violence, all they want at the end are either money or sex or both.

I am still deeply angry and disappointed about all thing matters you have mentioned but since I realize that 98% of people are dumb and fu-ing selfish I know ranting/only commenting is useless and hopeless.

 

This is not a "deal with it" comment. I have learnt that the only way to respond to all of this were to gear up myself to actually able to do something or become powerful in someway(money wise or social status wise)  so that I could escape from all of these crap and don't have to suffer anymore, maybe could even help to change some of it. 

[rtlloyd98]

7 hours ago, gisiebob said:

just wanted to mention that science doesn't work on a belief system, including atheism, it works on repeatability and consensus. take gravity, for example. in science gravity probably works in a very specific way, and on our planet this has been verified and it seems to hold up well with the probes we have sent around the solar system, and it mostly looks correct from what we've looked at outside of our little spot in the galaxy... but not quite? so maybe there's something we can't see out there that has gravity, but it still works how we think it does, and call it dark matter, because right now the very specific way that gravity probably works is doing pretty good for where we are. but if say we get out there and things start 'falling sideways' then thats ok too, we just have to reword the system. we weren't wrong about gravity, but we were incorrect. we had the best model for the environment we were inside of.

 

 maybe it would be helpful to think of science as not the mechanics of how things like a dishwasher work, but our handwritten manual for those mechanics. and it can certainly be edited or incorrect, but it is our best guess at what is going on based on repeatability and consensus. so maybe the idea of evolution is incorrect, but it isn't wrong as the current working model. and you are free to explore where it might not be fitting correctly (and wound those statistics about gender and religion in STEM fields that wounded you!) but you do have to follow the science rules. (which are not perfect but are there so we can get consensus and repeatability)

Absolutely.

 

Just remember the modelling of the atom. It took centuries to find all the different components and how it is structured. The point is although they didn't know exactly what an atom was made of they knew that a component which a certain property must exist.

 

 

[rtlloyd98]

8 hours ago, gisiebob said:

just wanted to mention that science doesn't work on a belief system, including atheism, it works on repeatability and consensus. take gravity, for example. in science gravity probably works in a very specific way, and on our planet this has been verified and it seems to hold up well with the probes we have sent around the solar system, and it mostly looks correct from what we've looked at outside of our little spot in the galaxy... but not quite? so maybe there's something we can't see out there that has gravity, but it still works how we think it does, and call it dark matter, because right now the very specific way that gravity probably works is doing pretty good for where we are. but if say we get out there and things start 'falling sideways' then thats ok too, we just have to reword the system. we weren't wrong about gravity, but we were incorrect. we had the best model for the environment we were inside of.

 

 maybe it would be helpful to think of science as not the mechanics of how things like a dishwasher work, but our handwritten manual for those mechanics. and it can certainly be edited or incorrect, but it is our best guess at what is going on based on repeatability and consensus. so maybe the idea of evolution is incorrect, but it isn't wrong as the current working model. and you are free to explore where it might not be fitting correctly (and wound those statistics about gender and religion in STEM fields that wounded you!) but you do have to follow the science rules. (which are not perfect but are there so we can get consensus and repeatability)

 

The only thing I'll say about evolution is that millions of scientists have written millions of papers in millions of journals which have been peer reviewed by millions of other scientists. That is how a hypothesis becomes a theory. Peer review and repeated experiment.