Mathsy uni major

[Emery.]

Hi there

 

I'm up to change university course since autumn. The choice I'm considering is between a computer science course (let's call it CS) and a mathematics course. I've been unable to stick with a major for three years already, so I want a good bet this time! I studied physics and computer science so far. I loved physics. I absolutely loved it. But my view of it was a bit a bit unrealistic and as soon as I experienced it hands-on, I quit. Computer science is less competitive (I feel like you get sooo many people willing and able to pursue physics... supply...) and has more both financial payoff (demand in the market...) and in terms of being able to do things, create and discover (all you need is a brain and a laptop, not a gazillion euro particale accelerator... cost...). Physics seems to be dying too, while new disciplines and ways to do science, such as data mining, emerge. In terms of difficulty - they're similar I'd say. I also lost my interest in physics in favour of more abstract matters.

 

Of course the more I learn the less I think it's all about formal education... If you rock, you rock. Period. And nobody will do the learning for you. If you want to know something, you'll learn it given the resources, if not - you won't. Universities, by and large, just test you and don't provide you with the material or information what you need to know to pass the tests. Nor do they teach the skills they demand from a graduate. So that's just my general refelction on schooling.

 

Why switch a CS course? So... My journey with programming is short and I'm not knowledgeable in the subject. I get stuck in memory leaks and other dumb problems that require nothing but experience to deal with in a reasonable amount of time. Not that I'm completely bad at programming... I'm just much better at the more "difficult" part of it that requires actual thinking. So I'd be switching to a supposedly easier CS course. "Easier" means that they deliver the basic concepts and don't go into more complicated or difficult, original, problems in the topics. Which might be good from my point of view, with my poor experience in programming and dislike of studying. And also I don't feel like I neccesarily need someone to guide me through the difficult things... I never went to "very good" schools and was able to handle them regardless. Pressure demotivates me too. The workload seems similar, because the subjects are covered maybe less comprehensively, but faster. But it's not its only feature that is different from the course I'm currently in. The are more.

 

The new CS course has different "additional modules", so to say. Sorry, I'm not a native speaker of English, I've got no idea how it's called or if it has a couterpart at all in Anglo-Saxon countries. Those additional modules cover foreign languages and business. They are generally better than the additional modules in my current course. The subjects in later years are more interesting too and the staff are more helpful and friendly. The school is smaller, so the students have more access to hands-on experience with things too, and it's not a research university, but simply a college, so... yeah, that's why. Where I'm currently at is more like... a research university. The more reasearch oriented the university, the worse the teaching, you know. Because they hire scientists, not teachers. Another plus is that this course is flexible. I think I would benefit greatly from the foreign language courses, because I learn languages with ease, and those open many doors. (English is my second language, and I speak German as well, fluently) All in all, student-oriented and broader, but less in-depth. The thing I worry about in the case of this course is prestige if I wanted to pursue an academic career. They could reject me from programs, because I attended a "worse" uni. But I guess I could get better grades? So maybe if I applied to some PhD program that would speak in my favour? The foreign languages too? And more study abroad opportunities?

 

The math course... the reason why I would choose it is that I like math, I think it's useful anytime, in anything. I have an easier time with math than programming too. I learn a lot less and get a lot better grades. (Did I mention I didn't code my whole life, like most people in the course seem to?) There's a lot less to remember and more to think. I hope? I might be wrong. It might actually be like that... you learn proofs of things by heart. But I never had problems with proofs. Anyway. Let's be honest, my memory is poor. Especially for "random" things that lack structure. It's a good basic course to build on. And employment prospects, I think, after both courses are similar, as that's applied mathematics. I think math is also less prone to lose its value than CS in the perspective of decades. What I worry about: I might have to learn CS anyway and/or I might find working in a bank offputting in the end, because I have no experience with it so I don't know if I'd like it. Many people I know found it too boring. I get bored easily. Extremely easily. That's my problem with programming anyway. (Coding itself, not CS, to be clear) The uni would then stay the same. The math course is difficult, which can be considered both a positive and a drawback. Positive, because it can bring more prestige later on. Not many people have a math degree compared to CS. And the uni is prestigious. Negative... yeah... difficulty is negative in itself.  Complicated, work-heavy, high-pressure. Math might be more interesting and is a good basis for a PhD. Or am I wrong about it? PhD-wise I worry about the grades, and that a heavy course might actually hinder my ability to do some work of my own in free time (that would be non-existent). Or math might not be as interesting and mind-developing as I think. It might just be another geeky piece of knowledge that has little use now and will continue to. They say math teaches thinking... It might or might not be true for me. Because everyone is different, and general statements don't always hold true. I mean what I'd like to learn at university might be the more "basics of modern math" kind of thing, which I already know a bit about from courses I attended. Topology? Algebra? I have a talent for calculus, I think it's just a good spatial sense and imagination, so one one hand I don't care for calculus courses, because I don't really need to learn that to be able to handle the subject, but on the other hand I might get easy good grades having multiple calculus courses.

 

So what do you think about it?

[deltaX]

Have you looked at all into theoretical computer science topics, like algorithms or complexity theory?  It's kind of mix between math and CS, but without an excessive amount of coding, which it sounds like you may like.

[Garin]

For what it's worth most people who graduate in physics or math end up programming computers anyway, consider when the last time you saw a job posting specifically looking for undergrad math or physics was. Probably never.

I went down a similar road and given that information decided it would just be more efficient to study Computer Science while taking most of my electives in math.
I'll take it a step further and strongly suggest you do the 'co-op' option or whatever they call it where you are, where one does a term or two of work experience during their degree. That will help you make connections and ultimately the job experience is worth more than the paper anyway.

[Polygon]

2 hours ago, Garin said:

For what it's worth most people who graduate in physics or math end up programming computers anyway, consider when the last time you saw a job posting specifically looking for undergrad math or physics was. Probably never.

(kind of off topic to OP's situation, but..) Yeah, this is pretty much true. For math in particular, you're better off doing more than simply having a math degree. It's like, you have to pivot the math degree into something. If you're into insurance and risk, you'll take actuary exams during undergrad. If you're more on the stats side of things, you might go get a masters in it and make sure you're familiar with R/Python. If your interest is data science, you'll learn the hell out of Excel and other data tools and concepts. Even a proficiency in programming will get you in the door as a math major if the "code monkey" jobs don't bother you.

 

There's a lot of great stuff out there for math degree-holders, as long as the math major is willing to branch out and pick up some skills/tools. Unfortunately, many are not willing, or don't think it's necessary.

[Emery.]

3 hours ago, deltaX said:

Have you looked at all into theoretical computer science topics, like algorithms or complexity theory?  It's kind of mix between math and CS, but without an excessive amount of coding, which it sounds like you may like.

Mhm. I have. It's cool. I even attended a course, with a focus on that, but the coding was heavy anyway, and there were so many people who sat in this topic whole high school (I looked into any CS in college first) that my objectively-not-bad level was nothing in comparison to theirs, and there were so many of them that they set the level, that in result I failed the programing. I tried to be ambitious *sigh* I didn't like the atmosphere there too. It was in a department that deals with theoretical math (not applied). Then I went to another CS course, not giving up, and it's more technical I guess, but the technical subjects are so hard that OMG... I could stay, but it's so hard... Then, out of courses available, there is this another mathematics department and this "easy" CS course. At the mathematics department, they have both an applied math course and a CS course, and the CS there would be a "CS major, math minor", I think. I could give that a try maybe? I'm just afraid that I might not be able to handle the programming in any course that is considered "difficult", either because of my lack of experience or some lack of aptitude for it (?).

 

3 hours ago, Garin said:

For what it's worth most people who graduate in physics or math end up programming computers anyway consider when the last time you saw a job posting specifically looking for undergrad math or physics was. Probably never. I went down a similar road and given that information decided it would just be more efficient to study Computer Science while taking most of my electives in math.

Yup, that's exactly what I thought... More efficient to get a CS degree. I might just be unable to complete a more "difficult" CS degree, but able to complete a "difficult" math degree. That's why the dilemma.

 

Or not, maybe the courses I pick just have a too large workload for me. Maybe I wouldn't be able to handle the math either.

 

Job placements is what I plan to do anyway.

[Emery.]

Sooo... I decided I'll try doing the applied math degree in the end. I'd better leave that programming. I either don't have the interest or the predispostion, or the right personality for it. I'll look into insurance maybe or take programming at my own pace. But statistics sound really exciting too. I just need a bit softer skills course. I can't make myself dwell in the tech, but I suppose that once I have the understanding of the underlying math, it will be a hell lot easier to comprehend and hence learn (I don't and can't learn by heart) the tech side of things.

[Amathy]

I highly recommend still taking some CS classes even if its not your major.  It will make you more desirable as an employee after you graduate and give you more career prospects. 

[Emery.]

I already did. And they don't let you graduate applied math without CS classes too.

 

I can't stop hesitating either.