US Congressional Members Shot

[Cimmerian]

While practicing for the upcoming congressional baseball game for charity that was to honor victims of the recent terror attacks in London & Manchester, England, a gunman opened fire on a group that included  "20 House members and two senators" (Reuters), after asking someone leaving whether it was Democrats or Republicans practicing and having it confirmed that it was the Republicans' practice. The House majority whip, and a congressional aide were among the injured. The gunman has been confirmed dead after being taken to the hospital.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-virginia-shooting-idUSKBN1951M1

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/14/shots-fired-republican-party-baseball-practice-near-washington/

 

I've seen a lot of hateful rhetoric and even avocation of violence towards the Republicans, so this incident didn't surprise me but it's very disappointing and saddening. This is never the way to handle political disagreement.

[Yatogami]

This is why I tell people, especially the Left, not to demonize people. 

[CaptainYesterday]

This is the only logical conclusion I see coming out of the level and scale of hatred we're seeing from the left these days.  Bush and Obama had plenty of detractors, but it was never this bad, or at least those who were this bad were the fringe, not celebrities and major media publications advocating punching people and other such violence.

 

I wonder if this will cause anyone on the left to look at the rhetoric they've been using, or if they'll just say a few platitudes and go right back to saying anyone who doesn't think that Trump is a Nazi, is a Nazi.

[Starfall]

22 minutes ago, Maou-sama said:

This is why I tell people, especially the Left, not to demonize people. 

This tragedy didn't happen because the Left demonizes people. Extremists demonize people. Extremists on both sides. What we should take from this is that sometimes, people with extreme views use their ideologies to justify atrocious acts of violence. This is never right, and it is terrible that this happens, but now is not the time to be pointing fingers and assigning blame. Nor is it the time to be pushing our own political agendas by using this to justify our views of the Left, or Right. Now is the time for all of us to come together in support and sympathy for the victims. I may not share their political views, but I am greatly saddened and angered that this was done to them. I wish the best for them and their families in this terrible time. 

[Yatogami]

10 minutes ago, Starfall said:

This tragedy didn't happen because the Left demonizes people. Extremists demonize people. Extremists on both sides. What we should take from this is that sometimes, people with extreme views use their ideologies to justify atrocious acts of violence. This is never right, and it is terrible that this happens, but now is not the time to be pointing fingers and assigning blame. Nor is it the time to be pushing our own political agendas by using this to justify our views of the Left, or Right. Now is the time for all of us to come together in support and sympathy for the victims. I may not share their political views, but I am greatly saddened and angered that this was done to them. I wish the best for them and their families in this terrible time. 

Tell that to the media.

[Starfall]

Just now, Maou-sama said:

Tell that to the media.

I'm not talking to the media right now, I'm talking to you. I'm asking you to be reasonable and sympathetic to people who have suffered a horrible tragedy. Won't you come join me in standing in solidarity with the victims?  

[iff]

My thoughts and sympathies are with the people injured in this horrendous attack and their families 

[Yatogami]

14 minutes ago, Starfall said:

I'm not talking to the media right now, I'm talking to you. I'm asking you to be reasonable and sympathetic to people who have suffered a horrible tragedy. Won't you come join me in standing in solidarity with the victims?  

Oh that requires me being capable of sympathy. Sorry.

 

What's wrong with being mad at the most likely cause? 

 

My position simply reflects my observations on how people present themselves. I see a problem with how most of the Left treats outsiders. It is vastly more troubling than the Right. Since a lot of the Left seems purely emotionally compromised, and somewhat delusional to me. From my perspective, I would say almost all the Leftists in power are Radical. So yeah, I see it as a problem that has resulting consequences. To me, it is more shameful and disgusting to not adress the issue of biased media, subtle leftist brainwashing in colleges, and the fear mongering of practically harmless right winged associates.

 

Also no one died iirc.

[Starfall]

1 minute ago, Maou-sama said:

Oh that requires me being capable of sympathy. Sorry.

 

What's wrong with being mad at the most likely cause? 

 

My position simply reflects my observations on how people present themselves. I see a problem with how most of the Left treats outsiders. It is vastly more troubling than the Right. Since a lot of the Left seems purely emotionally compromised, and somewhat deslusional to me. From my perspective, I would say almost all the Leftists in power are Radical. So yeah, I see it as a problem that has resulting consequences. To me, it is more shameful and disgusting to not adress the issue of biased media, subtle leftist brainwashing in colleges, and the fear mongering of practically harmless right winged associates.

You think it's important to address what you see as a very damaging issue in our society. I can respect that. However, right after a tragic event is not the appropriate time to do this. If you want to address the issues you mention above, I'll be happy to do that with you in a different thread, but using a violent attack to prove your point, especially right after this attack has occurred, is not going to help the situation any. It's like the people on the left who are currently using this as an excuse to re-start the debate about gun-control. It's selfish and down-right disrespectful to the victims to use their tragedy as a way of advancing one's own political agenda. 

 

As I said, I'm happy to debate whether or not the left is evil in a thread which is not devoted to a tragic event, however while you're here, I implore you to put aside your own anger, so as not perpetuate the spread of the same fear and hatred which resulted in this barbaric attack. 

[Zerο]

2 minutes ago, Starfall said:

You think it's important to address what you see as a very damaging issue in our society. I can respect that. However, right after a tragic event is not the appropriate time to do this. If you want to address the issues you mention above, I'll be happy to do that with you in a different thread, but using a violent attack to prove your point, especially right after this attack has occurred, is not going to help the situation any. It's like the people on the left who are currently using this as an excuse to re-start the debate about gun-control. It's selfish and down-right disrespectful to the victims to use their tragedy as a way of advancing one's own political agenda. 

 

As I said, I'm happy to debate whether or not the left is evil in a thread which is not devoted to a tragic event, however while you're here, I implore you to put aside your own anger, so as not perpetuate the spread of the same fear and hatred which resulted in this barbaric attack. 

You're trying to debate with someone suffering cognitive dissonance and with questionable social skills BTW.  That's the only free warning.

[Yatogami]

4 minutes ago, Starfall said:

You think it's important to address what you see as a very damaging issue in our society. I can respect that. However, right after a tragic event is not the appropriate time to do this. If you want to address the issues you mention above, I'll be happy to do that with you in a different thread, but using a violent attack to prove your point, especially right after this attack has occurred, is not going to help the situation any. It's like the people on the left who are currently using this as an excuse to re-start the debate about gun-control. It's selfish and down-right disrespectful to the victims to use their tragedy as a way of advancing one's own political agenda. 

 

As I said, I'm happy to debate whether or not the left is evil in a thread which is not devoted to a tragic event, however while you're here, I implore you to put aside your own anger, so as not perpetuate the spread of the same fear and hatred which resulted in this barbaric attack. 

I know what youre saying, and I respect your choice to do the right thing. But, no amount of debating is going to resolve the problem. So unless you plan of literally fixing the issues yourself. We will always be in a position of sadness. People get tired of getting sad eventually. That sadness then turns to anger. I'm fed up with it all. 

[CaptainYesterday]

45 minutes ago, Starfall said:

This tragedy didn't happen because the Left demonizes people. Extremists demonize people. Extremists on both sides.

Except the Right's extremists are not massive celebrities who are endorsing violence.  Not to this degree, but it all ads up.  You can only reinforce that the Right are Nazis and that's it's okay to punch Nazis before someone takes that to it's logical extreme.

 

I completely agree that both sides do it, I just think there is a much more dangerous, popular acceptance on the Left right now than there has been on either side in a really long time.

 

45 minutes ago, Starfall said:

Nor is it the time to be pushing our own political agendas by using this to justify our views of the Left, or Right.

No, I disagree with this.  I disagree with it when the Right uses it to shut down gun control talk after a shooting, too.  It is completely relevant to talk about these things right now.  Your argument will either hold weight or it won't.

 

The problem isn't going to fix itself because we were all respectful and waited a designated time before discussing the issues.

[Yatogami]

6 minutes ago, Zerο said:

You're trying to debate with someone suffering cognitive dissonance and with questionable social skills BTW.  That's the only free warning.

I think you just misunderstand me, due to my poor communication skills. I also play devil's advocate a lot. I don't really talk about my personal beliefs a lot. If you're curious, I can answere questions you might have about them as a way to amend our poor relationship.

[Starfall]

12 minutes ago, Zerο said:

You're trying to debate with someone suffering cognitive dissonance and with questionable social skills BTW.  That's the only free warning.

Thanks for the warning. I'm actually trying to avoid debating by being reasonable, as debate really doesn't belong here.

[Starfall]

9 minutes ago, Maou-sama said:

So unless you plan of literally fixing the issues yourself. We will always be in a position of sadness.

Would if I could. I'm happy to discuss your concerns about us crazy leftists sometime, if you're open to the idea. I also wouldn't mind if you addressed some of my concerns about Right-wingers. You'd be surprised what two people determined to discuss something in a reasonable way can accomplish.

 

11 minutes ago, Maou-sama said:

People get tired of getting sad eventually. That sadness then turns to anger. I'm fed up with it all. 

I know exactly how you feel, and I'm sorry that you feel that way. It's easy to get fed up with the world when bad things keep happening.

[Starfall]

10 minutes ago, CaptainYesterday said:

Except the Right's extremists are not massive celebrities who are endorsing violence.  Not to this degree, but it all ads up.  You can only reinforce that the Right are Nazis and that's it's okay to punch Nazis before someone takes that to it's logical extreme.

 

Who are you talking about here? That Kathy Griffin picture with Trump's decapitated head? Even she admitted that that went too far to be in good taste. Also, take this someplace else. See below.

 

11 minutes ago, CaptainYesterday said:

No, I disagree with this.  I disagree with it when the Right uses it to shut down gun control talk after a shooting, too.  It is completely relevant to talk about these things right now.  Your argument will either hold weight or it won't.

 

The problem isn't going to fix itself because we were all respectful and waited a designated time before discussing the issues.

No, the problem isn't going to fix itself without discussion, but this thread is not the place for said debate. I'll extend the same offer to you as I made to @Maou-sama: I'm happy to debate whether or not the left is evil, but not in a thread devoted to a tragedy. Violent attacks of this sort should not be used to advance one's own political agenda. To do so is dis-respectful to what the victims have suffered. There is nothing wrong with being outraged - I myself am outraged that this occurred - nor is there anything wrong with using said outrage to fuel debate and social change, so long as it is done with respect for the suffering of the victims. Namely, by putting said debate in a separate thread - one which is not solely devoted to a tragedy.

[daveb]

57 minutes ago, iff said:

My thoughts and sympathies are with the people injured in this horrendous attack and their families 

I agree with you and @Starfall.

 

My sympathies are with the victims of violence. Their politics are immaterial. Anyone who commits acts of violence is in the wrong and should be condemned, in my view. Bernie Sanders did speak out and condemn the attack.

[Yatogami]

56 minutes ago, Starfall said:

Would if I could. I'm happy to discuss your concerns about us crazy leftists sometime, if you're open to the idea. I also wouldn't mind if you addressed some of my concerns about Right-wingers. You'd be surprised what two people determined to discuss something in a reasonable way can accomplish.

 

I know exactly how you feel, and I'm sorry that you feel that way. It's easy to get fed up with the world when bad things keep happening.

 

The thing is though, it is not on an individual level that is the problem. It is the people controlling information. These hidden sources, tell Liberals what to think, and how to act, and those people influence your beliefs. That is the real problem. I feel they have shaped the party into sheep and shepherds. They've turned the entire party into an easily controlled mob that does whatever they want on a whim. The thing is, is that the Liberals are among the smartest people around. So how did this happen? Well, they removed critical thinking from the equation. They formed the system of control using emotional reasoning, rather than logic. The mainstream media is a perfect example of this. They portray everything as a moral problem, and avoid all logical parts by presenting a narrative. So when someone is presented with information, they accept it without questioning really questioning it. Smart people, will too. Because being smart, doesn't mean you can critically think. I mean, if its presented by the authority, why question it? That is another problem. Liberals have more faith in the government, than a devout religious man in his god. The bad part is, is that we know the government is highly flawed. You should not have any faith in your government, and expect it to fail more than not. 

[Starfall]

1 hour ago, Maou-sama said:

 

The thing is though, it is not on an individual level that is the problem. It is the people controlling information. These hidden sources, tell Liberals what to think, and how to act, and those people influence your beliefs. That is the real problem. I feel they have shaped the party into sheep and shepherds. They've turned the entire party into an easily controlled mob that does whatever they want on a whim. The thing is, is that the Liberals are among the smartest people around. So how did this happen? Well, they removed critical thinking from the equation. They formed the system of control using emotional reasoning, rather than logic. The mainstream media is a perfect example of this. They portray everything as a moral problem, and avoid all logical parts by presenting a narrative. So when someone is presented with information, they accept it without questioning really questioning it. Smart people, will too. Because being smart, doesn't mean you can critically think. I mean, if its presented by the authority, why question it? That is another problem. Liberals have more faith in the government, than a devout religious man in his god. The bad part is, is that we know the government is highly flawed. You should not have any faith in your government, and expect it to fail more than not. 

I'm starting a new thread for this, since it's off topic. I'll mention you so you can find it easily, and respond if you like.

Edit: Thread is called 'Are Liberals Evil? (Title is slightly sarcastic.) It's in the politics, philosophy and science forum. Any one who wants to weigh in there is welcome to do so.

[Mostly Peaceful Ryan]

It was lucky the Capitol Police were there to stop him. I've seen them first hand and they are a very impressive police force in action. 

[SorryNotSorry]

My first thought when I heard about the shooting on the radio was that the gunman's blind rage was criminal at worst, grossly misdirected at best.

 

There's no denying that a lot of people are angry at politicians and the media, and for different reasons.

 

The media is inherently more autocratic because it isn't elected, therefore it can't be impeached, voted out, or termed out.

 

But as for directing one's anger at politicians, that's just flat-out misguided. Who are politicians going to bat for? A bunch of asshole business owners and neighborhood malcontented grouches who complain "there oughta be a law—!" THOSE are the individuals that the hotheads should be angry at.

[carbomb]

On 6/15/2017 at 9:30 AM, Woodworker1968 said:

The media is inherently more autocratic because it isn't elected, therefore it can't be impeached, voted out, or termed out.

Eh. I'd say media organizations sinking or swimming based on how many people watch them is a sort of pseudo-democratic system.